Bush Mix of God and War Grates on Many Europeans

[crazyfingers]

PARIS (Reuters) - The religious overtones in President Bush (news - web sites)'s speeches increasingly grate on many ears in Europe, where leaders invoking God in times of war are widely suspect of misusing faith for political purposes.


No less than the German president, French prime minister and Belgian foreign minister have joined religious leaders in expressing concern about Bush's beliefs and the place of religion in U.S. politics.


Media commentators, especially in northern European countries with Protestant heritages, have branded Bush's evangelical views as Christian fundamentalism, with some even comparing them to the Islamic fundamentalism of Osama bin Laden (news - web sites).


The discussion reflects both the widespread popular anti-war sentiment in Europe and the deeper gulf between a continent where faith is on the wane and an America where religious values probably play a more prominent political role than ever before.


German President Johannes Rau, a Protestant preacher's son who makes no secret of his own faith, reacted sharply this week on n-tv television to press reports that Bush believed defeating Iraqi President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) was part of a divine plan.


"George Bush has got a completely one-sided message. I don't think a people gets a sign from God to liberate another people," he said. "Nowhere does the Bible call for crusades."


Belgian Foreign Minister Louis Michel, a vocal critic of the war, said before hostilities broke out last month that he saw Christian fundamentalism gaining influence in Washington and added: "That is, of course, a dangerous point of departure."


French Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin, asked about a U.S. weekly's cover story on Bush and God, told Le Point magazine: "In no way can God be called on for a vote of confidence."


* snip *


These references may not seem so out of place in the United States, where all presidents say "God bless America" and "In God We Trust" is emblazoned on dollar bills.


But they stand out and sometimes even shock many Europeans who remember how German soldiers trooped off to World War One with "Gott mit uns" (God with us) stamped on their belt buckles.


"I believe George Bush's religious views are genuine," Cardinal Karl Lehmann, head of the German Bishop's Conference, told the Catholic weekly Rheinischer Merkur in an interview on Thursday. "But this careless way of using religious language is not acceptable anymore in today's world."


In Sweden, invoking God in politics is so unusual that parliamentarian Hans Lindqvist told Reuters: "I've never seen anything like this before."


Commentators in Britain, where Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites)'s firm but discreet Christian beliefs have also aroused critical attention, have described Bush as "chaplain in chief" and analyzed his use of religious phrases and images in detail.


"For world-weary Europe, the presidential language evokes mirth and queasiness in equal measure," The Independent wrote.

In France, where even practicing Catholic or Jewish politicians shrink from mentioning religion, the daily Le Monde reacted sharply last week to the news that the U.S. House of Representatives had called for a day of national prayer and fasting to secure divine blessings for U.S. troops in Iraq.

"This bizarre approach shocks Europeans," it said in an editorial. Its religion correspondent accused Bush and Iraqi President Saddam Hussein of "gross misuse" of religion.

"One is tempted to say the destiny of America is in the hands of a small group of Protestant bigots," Henri Tincq wrote.

* snip *

Source

I agree with these Europeans.  Bush and the right wing of the republican party are freightening.

 

[Starscream]

Great article, CF!

We really need to keep religion out of politics, like the founding fathers intended.  It only harms us.

 

 

[Caffeine Socialism]

Does anyone have any insights as to how and why America became so overwhelmingly religious? That has always intrigued me.

 

[Starscream]

5th April 2003 at 12:59 PM Caffeine Socialism said this in Post #3

Does anyone have any insights as to how and why America became so overwhelmingly religious? That has always intrigued me.

Great question!  I think it must be related to the marriage of patriotism and religion.

What?  You're not religious!?  Well you're not a real American then!

 

[Caffeine Socialism]

I don't think I've ever really wanted to be a REAL American. Patriotism is rather disgusting, thank you very much.

 

[crazyfingers]

5th April 2003 at 01:59 PM Caffeine Socialism said this in Post #3

Does anyone have any insights as to how and why America became so overwhelmingly religious? That has always intrigued me.

I don't know.  But it would be nice to know what the antidote was.

 

Edit Codes.

 

[nChrist]

Many Christians pray daily for those involved in the war, including the Iraqis. I'm glad that our leaders ask God for guidance. It is also appropriate to pray that innocents are spared and supplies be provided quickly to the innocent people of Iraq.

Prayer is not unique to this President only. The majority of our Presidents have prayed for guidance and wisdom in serving this country.

I don't really care what some of the Europeans think about Americans praying. I think some very interesting answers will be revealed soon about why some European countries didn't wish to support this war. This war might not have been necessary had there been unity in UN resolutions. Again, I think the reasons for that lack of unity will soon be revealed.

 

[ACougar]

The role of religion in the United States is a double edged sword. On the one hand more Americans draw comfort and streangth from religion, one the other fundamentalism rears it's ugly head giving people an excuse to hate and wage war.

 

[l33tace]

Oh yes, credible sources being a French liberal media news columnist (probably socialist) with references to M-TV err… n-tv (Socialist) and un-named “religious leaders” (probably socialist). This really puts a dark cloud on us right wing warmongers, eh?

Truth is I’ve been in shock and awe on how much of Europe has gone belly up and is ready to hand over their personal freedoms for a handful of dust. Well we took Baghdad today… their free now… free to mess it all up as previous countries have done.

Peace

 

[nChrist]

Today at 09:19 PM ACougar said this in Post #8

The role of religion in the United States is a double edged sword. On the one hand more Americans draw comfort and streangth from religion, one the other fundamentalism rears it's ugly head giving people an excuse to hate and wage war.

I don't see that religion has anything at all to do with the war in Iraq. I understand some folks protesting the war, but I also understand 75 to 80% of Americans thinking there was little choice. I think that most folks gave up on 12 years with the UN and no progress in sight, terrorists, WMD, and a Hitler want-to-be. Maybe the 1.5 to 2 million folks Saddam killed has something to do with it. Genocide may have something to do with it, and 5,000 children a month starving to death while Saddam keeps building palaces might be part of it. When you add everything up, it's really fairly easy to see why 80% of Americans feel the war is just and the only course of action left. At this point, protesting the war is a complete waste of time.

 

[nChrist]

Yesterday at 10:20 PM l33tace said this in Post #9
Oh yes, credible sources being a French liberal media news columnist (probably socialist) with references to M-TV err… n-tv (Socialist) and un-named “religious leaders” (probably socialist). This really puts a dark cloud on us right wing warmongers, eh?

Yes, I too was in shock that folks in France had anything bad to say about America. It's so out of character for them. My feelings are so hurt that I may never get over it.  

 

[Gerry]

Yesterday at 12:42 PM crazyfingers said this in Post #1



Source

I agree with these Europeans.  Bush and the right wing of the republican party are freightening.

As an atheist, you have good reason to be frightened of all this talk about God! "The fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom."

 

[crazyfingers]

Guys.  This is not a war topic.  This topic is about the difference between the US and large parts of Europe on the religiosity scale.

Regarding religion, large parts of Europe appear to be far more enlightened than the US.

 

[crazyfingers]

Today at 03:58 AM Gerry said this in Post #12



As an atheist, you have good reason to be frightened of all this talk about God! "The fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom."

You miss the point.  I have no fear that Christianity might be true.  What I fear is a continued slide for the US down to fundamentalism.  Such a slide would most likely involve increased government support and sponsorship of Christianity, increased ignorance of science and ultimately restricted civil liberties for those who do not accept christianity.

My fear is on earthly persecution.

 

 

[tof]

Hi Crazyfingers
You're totally right, it has nothing to do with faith or Christianity, and everything to do with earthly affairs.
What this article shows is that it's Christians who are concerned with Bush's stance about God. They don't accept that the US government declares itself the executioner of God's will, or that America is God's chosen country.
This kind of nationalism tainted with fundamentalist Christianity was prevalent in all the european countries until the 19th century, and had a revival in the fascist regimes of Germany, Italy, Spain and WWII occupied countries like France's Vichy government.
Europeans have learned from their mistakes, we wouldn't want that the USA, who were our model, to repeat them.

 

[Gerry]

Today at 09:32 AM crazyfingers said this in Post #14




You miss the point.  I have no fear that Christianity might be true.  What I fear is a continued slide for the US down to fundamentalism.  Such a slide would most likely involve increased government support and sponsorship of Christianity, increased ignorance of science and ultimately restricted civil liberties for those who do not accept christianity.

My fear is on earthly persecution.

 

I see! Well, may I say this to you? Your fears are based on exactly what you say, theory and supposition and nothing factual. The problem is that there are too many people who claim to be atheists and agnostics and whatever else is in the mix, "Teaching" about Christianity, and spreading all this disinformation about Christianity. That is about as interesting and relevant as a virgin teaching classes on love making!

 

[Lanakila]

Europe is long out of a post Christian era, tha America has recently abandoned. Most of European Christians are of the liberal variety. Where in America the liberal Christian churches are dying in droves while Evangelical churches prosper. I am not advocating political activism by Christians or even churches, but that sorta explains the differences between America and Europe.

 

[crazyfingers]

Today at 02:26 PM Gerry said this in Post #16



I see! Well, may I say this to you? Your fears are based on exactly what you say, theory and supposition and nothing factual.

Would you like some facts on what right wing fundamentalists are actually doing?  I would be happy to provide them to you.

The problem is that there are too many people who claim to be atheists and agnostics and whatever else is in the mix, "Teaching" about Christianity, and spreading all this disinformation about Christianity.

I think that you need to look at Christians for who is teaching about Christianity.  The Pat Robertson/Jeffy Falwell croud are the ones doing the teaching on the right wing.  Christians disagree among themselves on what is "right".  Don't try to pin the blame on atheists.


 

 

[Taffsadar]

Today at 08:58 AM Gerry said this in Post #12



As an atheist, you have good reason to be frightened of all this talk about God! "The fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom."

Good, now when we got that sorted out. What way does "The fear of Bushs use of christianity as a propaganda tool" lead too?

Maybe a future chat with the secret service (hey we all know that true patriots can't choose their religion, it gotta be christianity!).

 

And no I doesn't mind christianity or religion. What I do mind is use of religion for propaganda purposes.

 

[l33tace]

Today at 11:54 AM Lanakila said this in Post #17 

I am not advocating political activism by Christians or even churches, but that sorta explains the differences between America and Europe.

It used to be that political discussion was an important subject at the pulpit even from the foundation of this nation. I think it’s very important for the church (individual children of God) to have a place in the voice of political views. That’s the essence of the separation of church and state; that it’s the individual person contributing in decisions concerning ones local and national affairs in contrast to say a single body in full authority over legislation; such had happened to Europe.

Peace