4 Day Work Week

blackribbon · Jul 27, 2017

Wanting to get paid regardless of amount of work done (or hours worked) is called socialism. Why would anyone chose to do a difficulty job if they could get paid the same amount sitting in front of their tv and doing leisure activities.

I'd quit nursing in a heartbeat. So would my co-workers. I suspect that most doctors would quit too if the McDonald's cashier who worked 15 hours a week was making as much as they do to be available 24hrs a day/7 days a week. Who needs hospitals anyway?

dayhiker · Jul 28, 2017

Thought I'd comment on the work 6 day thing.

I think this is often thought of work 6 days for the company. But I'm sure in Bible times work included what they had to do to feed themselves. So it would have included going to the field/market to harvest/buy food and then the time it took to prepare the food. Making bread back then would have taken quite a bit of time. Killing the fatten calf and preparing it to be cooked. The same goes for spinning thread and yarn, weaving cloth and sowing clothes. All those things would have been part of ones work. So today I think we should included the time we spend going tot he store and preparing meals. Even washing our clothes would have been part of ones work. So I don't agree that work is just the hours we spend working for the company.

Paradoxum · Jul 29, 2017

juvenissun said:
Yes, arbitrary. Then why not go back to 6 work days?
If you are the boss, you may make it to 2 work days.

In fact, in the next year, I will only work one day per week (with a full salary).

Well there's no defences here, so yes, 4 days a week. Moving downward as robots take over.

Paradoxum · Jul 29, 2017

blackribbon said:
How do you propose to do this? The company is owned by the employer. It sets the wages it is willing to pay and a potential employee has the freedom to accept that offer or walk away. If the offer isn't high enough, no employees will work for them and they will have a staffing problem. If the offer is very generous, then plenty of people will want it and the employer can pick the cream of the crop from the potential employees.
The employee already has the power to accept a job or walk away. That is a lot of power.

What other powers are you wanting to give to the employee?

To be in a cooperative, so employees decide what way a company goes.

OldWiseGuy · Jul 29, 2017

Paradoxum said:
Education should should promote natural learning, not kill it.

I agree. My late brother-in-law was a certified genius who composed lesson plans for gifted and talented students. He opined that as soon as kids enter traditional schools their ability to learn is seriously impaired. Of course many, myself included, believe this is by design. We want our kids smart, but not too smart.

OldWiseGuy · Jul 29, 2017

Dave-W said:
Yeah - just try to live off of that.

You can live off of it, but that's about it; no future.

blackribbon · Jul 30, 2017

Paradoxum said:
Yes, and I'm against homework I'm pretty sure I learned more about history when I cared about it, and could see it in some sort of context.

Education should should promote natural learning, not kill it.

So why not just make school optional?

Dave-W · Jul 31, 2017

OldWiseGuy said:
You can live off of it, but that's about it; no future.

Not around here. You need 2 full time jobs just to keep up with the rent.

Kalevalatar · Jul 31, 2017

Is there any reason to, in principle, oppose a 4 day work week?

Why not pursue a 4 day work week?

Indeed.

Training for eight hours seven days a week does not make you a stronger athlete. Quality training, not quantity, is the key, including quality recovery time in between. When it comes to brain & body, longer work days and/or longer work weeks does not mean better quality work or more efficient work tempo.

In fact, workplaces that have shortened their/trialed shorter work week and/our hours have largely found the opposite true: well rested, less stressed and happy workers = more efficient, more productive, more innovative workers and results.

While shortening daily hours and/or work week has increased salary costs as more workers have been needed to do the same job, the savings in terms of fewer sick days along with the actual increased productivity ("more for less") have been greater. For example, Toyota in Sweden switched from a 40-hour to 30-hour work week in 2003 and is happy with the increased profits and productivity. Their mechanics actually get more work done in 30 hours a week than before. What they did was to lengthen opening hours from 9 to 12 and split it in two 6-hour shifts, with the result of happier workers (plus more jobs --> happier taxpayers), happier customers and happier shareholders -- a triple win-win-win for all.

It's this kind of smart things that make sense. A five-day 40-hour work week certainly isn't a God-given the most perfect thing to manage our economy and lives and no reason to treat it like a Golden Rule-never-to-be-broken-or-end-of-world.

DogmaHunter · Aug 1, 2017

Paradoxum said:
Magic... magic which others in your cult don't agree with.

Yes, and I'm against homework I'm pretty sure I learned more about history when I cared about it, and could see it in some sort of context.

Education should should promote natural learning, not kill it.

School's purpose is not just to educate you in certain subjects. Neither is it only about learning. It is also about learning how to learn, about planning your work, about taking appropriate measures in terms of preparation, about having the discipline to do what needs to be done instead of you merely want to do.

It is about preparing you for a world where you will have to compete with peers, partner and team up with peers, master new technologies.

Not about turning you into a lazy bum who feels like the rich boss should just throw money at you.

DogmaHunter · Aug 1, 2017

Paradoxum said:
To be in a cooperative, so employees decide what way a company goes.

An employee who wants to have a say in what a company does, can buy shares and voice his opinion at the appropriate meetings and have a vote.

An employment contract is just a business transaction. It's like a service. The employee provides his muscle and / or brainpower for a well-defined amount of time in exchange for a fee he gets paid. He is paid for his labour. There is exactly zero reason to give him a voice in the enterprise as a default result of such agreement.

Just like when you hire a plumber to fix the sink in your kitchen, he has no business dictating you what color the kitchen wall should be.

*Starlight* · Aug 1, 2017

bhsmte said:
Are you saying people wh hire you and pay you should not expect you to perform the job to at least a minimum standard to keep it? In my experience some people have a good work ethic and some dont and that is reality. Many people who i know, maintain a rigorous work schedule and still are able to acomplish and do many things outside of work. Probably because their personal motivation, involves both work and their personal life.

I've never said that, what I meant is that society should move in a direction which minimizes all the threats to a person's life and well-being. That would include minimizing work time (so that a person can have a more fulfilling life) and removing the threats resulting from unemployment (such as poverty). That would give everyone a happier, healthier and less stressful life.

OldWiseGuy said:
Your attitude towards work reminds me of the old '60's hippies. They are the baby boomers, who now are facing retirement with little saved for it (maybe they should have worked more).

That's why what some people in this thread said (that you can already work less if you choose to) isn't feasible. There needs to be a more fundamental change in how society works, so that people can work less and not have problems because of it.

bhsmte · Aug 1, 2017

*Starlight* said:
I've never said that, what I meant is that society should move in a direction which minimizes all the threats to a person's life and well-being. That would include minimizing work time (so that a person can have a more fulfilling life) and removing the threats resulting from unemployment (such as poverty). That would give everyone a happier, healthier and less stressful life.

That's why what some people in this thread said (that you can already work less if you choose to) isn't feasible. There needs to be a more fundamental change in how society works, so that people can work less and not have problems because of it.

Sure, that is all good, but their is a balance. Companies need to be competitive and profitable to stay afloat, which means some companies may not be able to offer these reduced hours at higher pay you are looking for.

OldWiseGuy · Aug 1, 2017

*Starlight* said:
I've never said that, what I meant is that society should move in a direction which minimizes all the threats to a person's life and well-being. That would include minimizing work time (so that a person can have a more fulfilling life) and removing the threats resulting from unemployment (such as poverty). That would give everyone a happier, healthier and less stressful life.

What you are describing is Utopia (not a real place).

*Starlight* said:
That's why what some people in this thread said (that you can already work less if you choose to) isn't feasible. There needs to be a more fundamental change in how society works, so that people can work less and not have problems because of it.

I think people should work more, especially physical work. There's lots of such work that needs doing (and why let immigrant have all the fun). If someone wants to work less they can, but they will necessarily limit their choices in life and their standard of living. There are millions who have made such a choice, but sadly, and wrongly, they are numbered along with the 'poor', thus swelling those numbers into a big social problem that doesn't actually exist.

In America the individual is king, not the state or the corporations. Sadly our educational system has reduced us (not me) to knaves.

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