3abn Continued

Ah, no wonder I was confused! What I had found came from "A Summary of the Changes in the Church Manual voted at the 56th General Conference Session in Utrecht, the Netherlands, July 1995" and not the church manual itself!

Thanks Daryl!

So, given that, that means that since Linda could "transfer her membership" she was not at that time under censure.

djconklin said:

Hmmm, I read the paragraph (the exact source unknown to me, nor given in the post) and I find that she did not admit censure, but that she did drop her membership. Did I miss something?

Click to expand...

djconklin said:

Ah, no wonder I was confused! What I had found came from "A Summary of the Changes in the Church Manual voted at the 56th General Conference Session in Utrecht, the Netherlands, July 1995" and not the church manual itself!

Thanks Daryl!

So, given that, that means that since Linda could "transfer her membership" she was not at that time under censure.

Click to expand...

Linda could not and did not transfer her membership.

She tried to transfer it in December of 2004

She asked to have her membership dropped after she heard about the letter of Censure.

This is from a letter which Dr. Walter Thompson wrote, as posted by both Gregory Matthews on Maritime and then Ice dragon on BSDA:
"One more thing. Linda has said that she was not censured by her church. The fact is, her church did meet and confidentially went over all of the evidence they had, and wrote an 8 page letter outlining the reason they had to conclude that she was wrong. Rather than drop her from membership, out of concern for her, they agreed do a letter of censure."

I have more, David, from both the Church manual and from first person testimony, but this forum has this crazy point system, making it difficult to post links etc and cite your evidence, and prove what you are saying.

so everyone please excuse me while I do so. I am going to gain the required # of posts very quickly in order to edit this and add links, and be able to post more...

Peach45 said:

This is from a letter which Dr. Walter Thompson wrote, as posted by both Gregory Matthews on Maritime and then Ice dragon on BSDA:
"One more thing. Linda has said that she was not censured by her church. The fact is, her church did meet and confidentially went over all of the evidence they had, and wrote an 8 page letter outlining the reason they had to conclude that she was wrong. Rather than drop her from membership, out of concern for her, they agreed do a letter of censure."

Click to expand...

And as pointed out elsewhere, Walt was wrong again. He said that the church confidentially went over everything. What does that mean? Does that mean that they went over it without inviting her to be present? That would have been out of order, wouldn't it have been? Churches cannot have business meetings to discipline members without notifying them and inviting them to be present. They have to be given an opportunity to defend themselves against the charges made against them.

Given Walt's apparent confusion of a 3ABN board member's opinion as being the will of the entire board, it is highly possible that he simply confused the vote of a church board meeting as being a vote of the entire church.

Rosie55 said:

YES, the board met and CENSURE was voted on. It didn't go to the whole church because Linda LEFT that church and refused to meet with them. To bad that church didn't follow up on the Board action.

Needless to say, she WAS voted CENSURE by that church board.

Click to expand...

Here is the actual letter written to Linda. I ask for it and it was sent as requested. I will post several others also.

Thompsonville 7th Day Adventist Church
3577 Angel Lane• P.O. Box 23 Thompsonville, Illinois 62890 618-627-2999
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]October 27, 2005 [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• Linda Shelton [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]•[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• Dear Linda, [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]We hope that this letter finds you in the best of health. Since you left Thompsonville [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]you have been on our hearts and in our prayers. It is in a spirit of deep spiritual concern that we pray that you will understand that this letter was written with eternal [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]interest at heart.This letter is to inform you of the decision made by the Church [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• Board of the Thompsonville Seventh-day Adventist Church with reference to your [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]membership.We received your membership request for transfer to the Springfield [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• Seventh-day Adventist Church.[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif] After much discussion, prayer, and consideration, at [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• • [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]the church board level, we have voted to call a church business session to recommend to the church that you be placed under censure. [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]The meeting is scheduled to [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• be held on Saturday evening, November 19th following sunset. [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]It is your right to [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• appear in person to represent yourself or to write a letter to the church to address [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]the recommendation that the Church Board will make to the church in business [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]session.You can also request that some time be given for you to respond before the [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• matter is taken to church business session. Because of the nature of the decision [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• made we will await your response before November 17,2005. After that time if we [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• have not heard from you by letter we will take the matter to business session, You [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• • • • • [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]can send any correspondences to the address above. If you have any immediate [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• concerns you can call pastor John Lomacang at .... [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]Yours In Christ[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]Pastor John Lomacang [/FONT]

tomatoe said:

Here is the actual letter written to Linda. I ask for it and it was sent as requested. I will post several others also.

Thompsonville 7th Day Adventist Church
3577 Angel Lane• P.O. Box 23 Thompsonville, Illinois 62890 618-627-2999
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]October 27, 2005 [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• Linda Shelton [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]•[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• Dear Linda, [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]We hope that this letter finds you in the best of health. Since you left Thompsonville [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]you have been on our hearts and in our prayers. It is in a spirit of deep spiritual concern that we pray that you will understand that this letter was written with eternal [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]interest at heart.This letter is to inform you of the decision made by the Church [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• Board of the Thompsonville Seventh-day Adventist Church with reference to your [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]membership.We received your membership request for transfer to the Springfield [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• Seventh-day Adventist Church.[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif] After much discussion, prayer, and consideration, at [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• • [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]the church board level, we have voted to call a church business session to recommend to the church that you be placed under censure. [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]The meeting is scheduled to [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• be held on Saturday evening, November 19th following sunset. [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]It is your right to [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• appear in person to represent yourself or to write a letter to the church to address [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]the recommendation that the Church Board will make to the church in business [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]session.You can also request that some time be given for you to respond before the [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• matter is taken to church business session. Because of the nature of the decision [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• made we will await your response before November 17,2005. After that time if we [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• have not heard from you by letter we will take the matter to business session, You [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• • • • • [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]can send any correspondences to the address above. If you have any immediate [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]• concerns you can call pastor John Lomacang at .... [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]Yours In Christ[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]Pastor John Lomacang [/FONT]

Click to expand...

Linda's answer:
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]October 31, 2005 [/FONT]

Dear Pastor Lomacang and Thompsonville SDA Church Board Members,
I received your letter dated October 27, 2005. My participation in the SDA Church means very much to me, thus I take very seriously the message of your letter. Yet I strongly feel, John, that you are compromised because of your close association with Danny Shelton and your employment with 3 ABN and the “3 ABN Church.” (Also your dream. of many years to be on TV.) Additionally I feel that you, as the Church Board, are compromised since most of you work at 3AB1. Also, I feel the church members are compromised, to [FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]the [/FONT]matter at hand, because of [FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]the [/FONT]propaganda in which [FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]they [/FONT]have been[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]saturated. I[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]have yet to he approached by any of you for ministry purposes or to inquire about “my side of the story.’ Quite frankly I do not feel I would receive a fair hearing in this church. I protest the fact that you claim to go by the church manual in regards to censure, but you ignore the church manual when it comes to reaching out to the hurting one. Thus, I am formally requesting that as of today my membership be dropped from the church.
Let it be known that I am innocent of the rumors and allegations made against me. Let it be known that the separation from my husband and 3ABN was against my will. And let it be known. that I love my Church and the people in it enough to not publically broadcast in detail the wrongs that have been done to me. These facts would only hurt, not help.
In spite of the neglect of Christians during my dark days, God has been [FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]very [/FONT]good to me. I am blessed to have emerged with my sanity still intact and I have a brand new perspective; a perspective which has clearly revealed to me that many professed Christians have not yet found a genuine heart-felt relationship with Christ, For this, the heart of Jesus bleeds. Although man can remove job titles, etc, etc,, no man can take away my calling which I will continue to pursue. I still welcome your greetings and comments, thus I am including my email address. May God’s richest blessings be yours, and may God bless the Thompsonville SDA Church!
\With warmest regards,
Linda Shelton
Linda Lindashelton. org

The lines highlighted above are for me to clarify. John Lomacang told me out of his own mouth that he had spent hours and hours counseling with Linda and with Linda and Danny. Then once she left, John called her to ask if he and his wife could come and visit her. She said she wasn’t ready. Later (still after the separation) he ran into her and Danny at the mall ( she says she was afraid of Danny) and ask again if he could come to visit her and she said she would call when she was ready. She didn’t.

tomatoe said:

Here is the actual letter written to Linda. I ask for it and it was sent as requested. I will post several others also.

Click to expand...

Wow! That's super. You must be an insider.

Can you get copies of the hundreds of hours of phone card phone records by Linda to Norway that John Lomacang told me about on September 1? He indicated that management or the board had decided that anyone could see them.

AT&T said that they don't give out written records without a subpoena, so I've wondered how John could say that he had personally seen them. It's been a puzzle to me and I'd really like to get that one resolved.

Can you get them as easily as you've gotten this personal letter written by John to Linda?

tomatoe said:

Linda's answer:
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]October 31, 2005 [/FONT]

Click to expand...

Hmm. There must be a little more to the story. Why did she ask on Nov. 14 for a release from her agreement with 3ABN so that she could defend herself at the church business meeting if she had already asked to have her name dropped on Oct. 31? What transpired between Oct. 31 and Nov. 14?

And as pointed out elsewhere, Walt was wrong again. He said that the church confidentially went over everything. What does that mean?

It means what it says Mr Pickle.

Does that mean that they went over it without inviting her to be present?

No, and it doesn't say that Mr Pickle.

That would have been out of order, wouldn't it have been? Churches cannot have business meetings to discipline members without notifying them and inviting them to be present. They have to be given an opportunity to defend themselves against the charges made against them.

Yes they do...

Given Walt's apparent confusion of a 3ABN board member's opinion as being the will of the entire board, it is highly possible that he simply confused the vote of a church board meeting as being a vote of the entire church.

NOT.

it would seem robert, that you have been given some rather faulty information . . . the material submit to substantiate the position of tomatoe appears for all intents and purposes to be real, factual, and authentic . . . your question seems to be nothing more than an attempt at planting seeds in the hopes they will grow into doubt . . . why don't you find out the answer to your own question, haven't you fancied yourself an investigator for some time now . . . after all tomatoe has substantiated his position with the real deal documented fact . . .

- two cents from the bonedealer

Pickle said:

Hmm. There must be a little more to the story. Why did she ask on Nov. 14 for a release from her agreement with 3ABN so that she could defend herself at the church business meeting if she had already asked to have her name dropped on Oct. 31? What transpired between Oct. 31 and Nov. 14?

Click to expand...

You are correct PP. However I was responding to what was said about the board "recommendation" being binding without coming before the church in business session. We should not even be surprised that they made the recommendation or that she didn't show up. How many set ups do you think she needed to walk into with her eyes closed?

Pinkpanther007 said:

A church board cannot censure. They do not have that authority. Only the church can censure.

Click to expand...

tomatoe said:

Linda's answer:
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]October 31, 2005 [/FONT]

Dear Pastor Lomacang and Thompsonville SDA Church Board Members,
I received your letter dated October 27, 2005. My participation in the SDA Church means very much to me, thus I take very seriously the message of your letter. Yet I strongly feel, John, that you are compromised because of your close association with Danny Shelton and your employment with 3 ABN and the “3 ABN Church.” (Also your dream. of many years to be on TV.) Additionally I feel that you, as the Church Board, are compromised since most of you work at 3AB1. Also, I feel the church members are compromised, to [FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]the [/FONT]matter at hand, because of [FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]the [/FONT]propaganda in which [FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]they [/FONT]have beensaturated. Ihave yet to he approached by any of you for ministry purposes or to inquire about “my side of the story.’ Quite frankly I do not feel I would receive a fair hearing in this church. I protest the fact that you claim to go by the church manual in regards to censure, but you ignore the church manual when it comes to reaching out to the hurting one. Thus, I am formally requesting that as of today my membership be dropped from the church.
Let it be known that I am innocent of the rumors and allegations made against me. Let it be known that the separation from my husband and 3ABN was against my will. And let it be known. that I love my Church and the people in it enough to not publically broadcast in detail the wrongs that have been done to me. These facts would only hurt, not help.
In spite of the neglect of Christians during my dark days, God has been [FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]very [/FONT]good to me. I am blessed to have emerged with my sanity still intact and I have a brand new perspective; a perspective which has clearly revealed to me that many professed Christians have not yet found a genuine heart-felt relationship with Christ, For this, the heart of Jesus bleeds. Although man can remove job titles, etc, etc,, no man can take away my calling which I will continue to pursue. I still welcome your greetings and comments, thus I am including my email address. May God’s richest blessings be yours, and may God bless the Thompsonville SDA Church!
\With warmest regards,
Linda Shelton
Linda Lindashelton. org

The lines highlighted above are for me to clarify. John Lomacang told me out of his own mouth that he had spent hours and hours counseling with Linda and with Linda and Danny. Then once she left, John called her to ask if he and his wife could come and visit her. She said she wasn’t ready. Later (still after the separation) he ran into her and Danny at the mall ( she says she was afraid of Danny) and ask again if he could come to visit her and she said she would call when she was ready. She didn’t.

Click to expand...

Now the final letter from JL To LS. Read carefully. It clears up a lot of things.

Thompsonville 7th Day Adventist Church 3577 Angel Lane P.O. Box 23 ‘Thompsonville, Illinois 62890
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]January 14, 2006 [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]Linda Shefton [/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]-. Dear Linda, [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]Thank you for your speedy response to the letter the Church Board sent to you. I, H- was also pleased to speak to you when you called me Sabbath afternoon. I thought [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]that our conversation went well and I listened to your observations hoping that [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]we would be able to help you. I was somewhat surprised how soon you had Derrell Mundall hand deliver your reply letter to me at my office As I read it I was a bit disappointed to see that you expressed so little confidence in the church board, the church members, and in me. To incessantly suggest that the church is made of [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]“compromised” members is quite short-sighted on your part. This board is not made of people bought by Danny Shelton. It is comprised of God-fearing Christians that understand all too well the great responsibility of making well informed decisions. [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]It is enlightening to see how you unceasingly, and relentlessly, attempted to dismiss your poor decision making by maligning others. [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]It was also quite manipulative on your part to imply that my “dreams of many years to be on TV” disqualified me as an objective pastor. Linda you may remember, it was at your urging that Danny called me to join the 3ABN family. At no time did I [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]even call or suggest that I was interested in being on TV. Years before I even knew of 3ABN, Doug Batchelor and I were already on television; not to mention countless [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]other times without Doug. It was on the heels of Net ‘99 in New York that I was invited to sing at 3ABN; prior to that I had not heard of 3ABN. The doors that opened at [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]3ABN were not opened by any dream on my part, of which there was none concerning 3ABN but by the hand of the Lord. As a matter of record you probably remember well when you said to me,”John, God brought you to St. Louis so that we could bring you the rest of the way.” To suggest that you will be not be able to receive fairness and impartiality is ludicrous. [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]Linda, as we look at the time-line of events you were the first one to call me [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]and ask for counsel about your friendship with the doctor. It was after I arrived at [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]your home that I heard the other side of the story. It was hearing both sides that [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]led me to give you counsel to sever the relationship with the doctor from Norway. I [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]made that decision as your pastor and as a marriage counselor with 16 years experience, not as a “back-pocket” servant of Danny Shelton. [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]It has been nearly two years since this escapade started and you will recall [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]that from the very outset, that Tuesday night in your living room, when you made [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]the decision not to sever your relationship with the doctor, you set the course that [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]led you to where you are today. Linda, the decision to hold on to someone other than your husband in spite of the months of counseling, was a critical decision in furthering your downfall. To further compound the matter, you still held firmly to your course after the relentless pleading from your friends, confidants, pastors, 3ABN board members, and non-Adventist counselors to sever the relationship. One has to be quite short-sighted and uninformed to come to the conclusion that all of those people were ”compromised.” [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]You also mentioned that no one made an attempt to visit you and minister to you. Speaking for Angie and I, you may remember that when you made the decision to move to out of your home and go to Marion for ”more privacy,” we called you and asked if we could come and visit with you. You refused by saying that you were not ready and that you would let us know when you were ready for our visits. You never contacted us so we can only assume that you did not want a visit from us. Even when we saw you in the mall with Danny, we asked again about visiting and you said I will tell you when.” [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]Many of the people that are still supporting your cause were not at ground zero. You continue to suggest that it was the subsequent decisions that other people made, rather than the initial one that you made that landed you where you are. One of the greatest evidences of hazardous decision-making on your part is the fact that you and the doctor are still in a relationship. [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]There was never a conspiracy to get rid of you and to refuse you a fair hearing. You were, and are greatly loved by many of the people at 3ABN and Thompsonville Seventh-day Adventist Church. However, love for someone and loyalty to them are not always the same. While we love you, we must be loyal to the truth and to the Lord. That is where we must be accountable. [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]God placed within your hands the responsibility of carrying a message to the world. It is unfortunate that you came to the place where your desires became more important than the responsibility placed on you through the message. Linda, God called you and the Bible says in Romans 11:29”For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.” God called King Saul and God called David; both of these followers of God sinned. The difference between a ”king” and a ”shepherd boy” was clearly seen. Saul was too great to repent and turn to God and the record is clear concerning his fate. David, although his fall was great, turned to God with the heart of a repentant servant. For our admonition David’s prayer of repentance was preserved in Psalm 139:23,24 (KJV),”Search me, 0 God, and know my heart; Try me and know my thoughts and see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.” (continued)[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

tomatoe said:

Now the final letter from JL To LS. Read carefully. It clears up a lot of things.

Thompsonville 7th Day Adventist Church 3577 Angel Lane P.O. Box 23 ‘Thompsonville, Illinois 62890
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]January 14, 2006 [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]Linda Shefton [/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]-. Dear Linda, [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]Thank you for your speedy response to the letter the Church Board sent to you. I, H- was also pleased to speak to you when you called me Sabbath afternoon. I thought [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]that our conversation went well and I listened to your observations hoping that [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]we would be able to help you. I was somewhat surprised how soon you had Derrell Mundall hand deliver your reply letter to me at my office As I read it I was a bit disappointed to see that you expressed so little confidence in the church board, the church members, and in me. To incessantly suggest that the church is made of [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]“compromised” members is quite short-sighted on your part. This board is not made of people bought by Danny Shelton. It is comprised of God-fearing Christians that understand all too well the great responsibility of making well informed decisions. [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]It is enlightening to see how you unceasingly, and relentlessly, attempted to dismiss your poor decision making by maligning others. [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]It was also quite manipulative on your part to imply that my “dreams of many years to be on TV” disqualified me as an objective pastor. Linda you may remember, it was at your urging that Danny called me to join the 3ABN family. At no time did I [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]even call or suggest that I was interested in being on TV. Years before I even knew of 3ABN, Doug Batchelor and I were already on television; not to mention countless [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]other times without Doug. It was on the heels of Net ‘99 in New York that I was invited to sing at 3ABN; prior to that I had not heard of 3ABN. The doors that opened at [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]3ABN were not opened by any dream on my part, of which there was none concerning 3ABN but by the hand of the Lord. As a matter of record you probably remember well when you said to me,”John, God brought you to St. Louis so that we could bring you the rest of the way.” To suggest that you will be not be able to receive fairness and impartiality is ludicrous. [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]Linda, as we look at the time-line of events you were the first one to call me [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]and ask for counsel about your friendship with the doctor. It was after I arrived at [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]your home that I heard the other side of the story. It was hearing both sides that [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]led me to give you counsel to sever the relationship with the doctor from Norway. I [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]made that decision as your pastor and as a marriage counselor with 16 years experience, not as a “back-pocket” servant of Danny Shelton. [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]It has been nearly two years since this escapade started and you will recall [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]that from the very outset, that Tuesday night in your living room, when you made [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]the decision not to sever your relationship with the doctor, you set the course that [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]led you to where you are today. Linda, the decision to hold on to someone other than your husband in spite of the months of counseling, was a critical decision in furthering your downfall. To further compound the matter, you still held firmly to your course after the relentless pleading from your friends, confidants, pastors, 3ABN board members, and non-Adventist counselors to sever the relationship. One has to be quite short-sighted and uninformed to come to the conclusion that all of those people were ”compromised.” [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]You also mentioned that no one made an attempt to visit you and minister to you. Speaking for Angie and I, you may remember that when you made the decision to move to out of your home and go to Marion for ”more privacy,” we called you and asked if we could come and visit with you. You refused by saying that you were not ready and that you would let us know when you were ready for our visits. You never contacted us so we can only assume that you did not want a visit from us. Even when we saw you in the mall with Danny, we asked again about visiting and you said I will tell you when.” [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]Many of the people that are still supporting your cause were not at ground zero. You continue to suggest that it was the subsequent decisions that other people made, rather than the initial one that you made that landed you where you are. One of the greatest evidences of hazardous decision-making on your part is the fact that you and the doctor are still in a relationship. [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]There was never a conspiracy to get rid of you and to refuse you a fair hearing. You were, and are greatly loved by many of the people at 3ABN and Thompsonville Seventh-day Adventist Church. However, love for someone and loyalty to them are not always the same. While we love you, we must be loyal to the truth and to the Lord. That is where we must be accountable. [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]God placed within your hands the responsibility of carrying a message to the world. It is unfortunate that you came to the place where your desires became more important than the responsibility placed on you through the message. Linda, God called you and the Bible says in Romans 11:29”For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.” God called King Saul and God called David; both of these followers of God sinned. The difference between a ”king” and a ”shepherd boy” was clearly seen. Saul was too great to repent and turn to God and the record is clear concerning his fate. David, although his fall was great, turned to God with the heart of a repentant servant. For our admonition David’s prayer of repentance was preserved in Psalm 139:23,24 (KJV),”Search me, 0 God, and know my heart; Try me and know my thoughts and see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.” (continued)[/FONT]
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[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]I read your recent response letter to the church board dated October 31,2005, and I hope that the declaration that you made, ”Let it be known that I am innocent of the rumors and allegations made against me, ”is not written in stone. Linda, on this note you were correct, ”Man can remove job titles.” However let me caution you about the rest of your declaration, ”No man can take away my calling which I will continue to pursue.” Saul pursued a course that dishonored God and God removed him. On the other hand David repented and pursued a course that opened the way for God to restore him. The eternal question is one to deeply and prayerfully ponder. Which course will you pursue? David humbled himself under the Almighty Hand of God and was restored. In spite of the dark stain of David’s past the apostle Paul preached a message that recalls the fate of these two great men. He writes in Acts 13:21-22 (NKJV),”And afterward they asked for a king; so God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, for forty years. (22) “And when He had removed him, He raised up for them David as king, to whom also He gave testimony and said, ’l have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.”
Linda, from the first night that I sat before you in your living room I made a statement that has so far proven to be true. I said to you, ”Satan wants to destroy you, your ministry, your career, and your marriage. ”The results are evidence that to this day Satan has prevailed. I am hoping that he will not prevail in robbing you of your salvation. Just recently I read the chapter ”Why Was Sin and Suffering Permitted,” from the book, ”Patriarchs & Prophets.” I was deeply impressed again by what I read to further warn you that you are still on enchanted grounds and that the enemy is not done. Here are a few of the quotes that opened my eyes:
“The angels whom he could not bring fully to his side, he accused of indifference to the interests of heavenly beings. The very work which he himself was doing, he charged upon the loyal angels. It was his policy to perplex with subtle arguments concerning the purposes of God. Everything that was simple he shrouded in mystery, and by artful perversion cast doubt upon the plainest statements of Jehovah. And his high position, so closely connected with the divine government, gave greater force to his representation.
“He had artfully presented his side of the question, employing sophistry and fraud to secure his objects. His power to deceive was very great. By disguising himself in a cloak of falsehood, he had gained an advantage. All his acts were so clothed with mystery that it was difficult to disclose to the angels the true nature of his work. Until fully developed, it could not be made to appear the evil thing it was; his disaffection would not be seen to be rebellion. Even the loyal angels could not fully discern his character or see to what his work was leading.”
“Rejecting with disdain the arguments and entreaties of the loyal angels, he denounced them as deluded slaves. The preference shown to Christ he declared an act of injustice both to himself and to all the heavenly host, and announced that he would no longer submit to this invasion of his rights and theirs.”
Linda, I saw that because of your great influence Satan would come at you with great intensity. If you persist in holding to the self-deceiving position that you have done nothing wrong, you are preparing yourself for the completion of Satan’s plan, complete destruction. As long as you play the role of total innocence, you are a gullible prey.
That is why we prayed for you when you were in your post at 3ABN and we will still pray for you. Our deepest prayer is that you discover that greatness comes not from being served but serving. We pray for your supporters because they only know the side that you presented. Our prayer is that the Lord will bring softness to your heart to make you a servant. At the end of the day it must be seen that it is “Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’ Says the LORD of hosts. ”Zechariah 4:6 (NKJV). Linda, God has not called us to be famous but to be faithful. I pray that you will respond to the Holy Spirit’s call to faithfulness.
We deeply regret that you have made the final decision to have your membership dropped from the church, but we do not have the right to refuse your written “formal request.”
The church chose censure rather than removal of membership because it was our desire to connect you with a Seventh-day Adventist church where you could find spiritual healing and recovery, not to cause you any further hardship. It is not our prayer that you pursue your calling; it is our prayer that you pursue the heart of God.
Your greatest blessing will come when you are restored to wholeness in the sight of God. God will richly bless you, not on account of whom you are, but on account of whom He is. Seek His kingdom and His righteousness and all that He has for you will be added.

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[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]Yours in Christ,
Pastor John Lomacang [/FONT]

Here's the thing. Admittedly the board voted to recommend to the church in business sessioin for Linda to be cenusred. however, this business session never took place, Linda was notified, but never attended the scheduled meeting, the church in business session never voted on the board's recommendation to censure Linda. End result, Linda was never cesured.

Now, when she attempted to move her membership, was the church she was attempting to transfer to told of the impending censure and threfore would not accept her membership? Were they told she "had been" censure even though it was not true? Either way, if they rejected her membership they did it under false pretenses, and to be honest, it probably was not a good place for her to be. Or did the next church not hear about the impending censure at all and Linda just asked to be dropped form membership of the 3ABN church?

tall73,
thank you very much for answering my request. i agree with daryl that you don't have to answer to anyone here as to how you spend your free time. every pastor i've ever known has very little free time and i was just curious about you wanting to spend it here. it just seemed unusual to me. just me i guess.
also, your wife, sophia7, (i think is her id) doesn't claim to be a Seventh Day Adventist here. her id just says "Christian" so that confused me. i didn't know if you were a practicing pastor or if you had left or retired or what. granted that's not my business, i was just curious. so thanks for being open with me.

tomatoe,
in reference to your post about the letters between linda and john; i have one question and one comment.

my comment is: if i were linda, i wouldn't have wanted to meet with john lomacang any more either. i've always loved john lomacang, (as much as you can just knowing someone on tv and by their music) but i feel he has really messed up in this situation and if it were me, i wouldn't have felt comfortable meeting with him and i don't think linda felt comforatable either. that is her priviledge and i don't see why or how anyone can assume to make any judgement call on that.

my question is: when you were given these letters, were you also given permission to post them on the internet?

truthmagnet said:

define "held up" pls

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If the process has been started to discipline a memer of the church, that membercannot change his membership or be dropped from the roll in order to avoid church discipline. Once the board makes the recommendation to censure/remove from fellowship, the church can do nothing with that member's membership until the church discipline process is completed...

Theoretically, they can hold that member's membership hostage ad infinitum by starting but not finishing the disciplinary process.

In His service,
Mr. J

awesumtenor said:

If the process has been started to discipline a memer of the church, that membercannot change his membership or be dropped from the roll in order to avoid church discipline. Once the board makes the recommendation to censure/remove from fellowship, the church can do nothing with that member's membership until the church discipline process is completed...

Theoretically, they can hold that member's membership hostage ad infinitum by starting but not finishing the disciplinary process.

In His service,
Mr. J

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awesomtenor, thanks for clearing that up for me.

truthmagnet said:

tall73,
thank you very much for answering my request. i agree with daryl that you don't have to answer to anyone here as to how you spend your free time. every pastor i've ever known has very little free time and i was just curious about you wanting to spend it here. it just seemed unusual to me. just me i guess.
also, your wife, sophia7, (i think is her id) doesn't claim to be a Seventh Day Adventist here. her id just says "Christian" so that confused me. i didn't know if you were a practicing pastor or if you had left or retired or what. granted that's not my business, i was just curious. so thanks for being open with me.

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Your welcome.

I find a site like this to be a rarity. It has many opportunities to talk to people from every faith within (and even without) Christianity. Where else can you discuss the Bible with knowledgable Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Calvanists, Methodists, Messianics, Adventist, etc.? To a pastor that is something exciting that we rarely get the opportunity to take part in within our local area.

CF is also a place to encourage non-Christians.

Adventists were just getting a foothold in their own forum when I showed up. So I thought I could make a contribution.

As for my current dialogue in some policy discussion forums, though I am no longer on staff I feel very strongly about pushing for people's ability to post their theological views here on CF. For instance, Adventists are currently not allowed to discuss two of our doctrines here in the main forums--Our view of hell, and our view of the anti-christ. I have been pushing for freedom of all groups to put their views on the table, even if they are not always comfortable views.

I am hoping there may be a change on the hell issue. I dont' hold much hope for the other at this point, but we are not the only ones to hold that view, that is for certain. And if the goal is to unite all of Christianity then the issue must be looked at. For that matter some would even feel that your thread on pagan influences within the Easter traditions would be too offensive to discuss here. The idea that practices of Christian groups are of pagan origin is a controversial one. But it should be allowed to be discussed respectfully, and factually. As a mod on theology team I had a chance to advocate for these types of issues.

This was my stance while on staff, and now that I am no longer on staff I am still trying to advocate for it.

In any case, that is why I have decided to use some of my free time here. That and I have learned a ton about my own beliefs while defending them.


I am off topic now so back to the regularly scheduled programming...

truthmagnet said:

tall73,
thank you very much for answering my request. i agree with daryl that you don't have to answer to anyone here as to how you spend your free time. every pastor i've ever known has very little free time and i was just curious about you wanting to spend it here. it just seemed unusual to me. just me i guess.
also, your wife, sophia7, (i think is her id) doesn't claim to be a Seventh Day Adventist here. her id just says "Christian" so that confused me. i didn't know if you were a practicing pastor or if you had left or retired or what. granted that's not my business, i was just curious. so thanks for being open with me.

tomatoe,
in reference to your post about the letters between linda and john; i have one question and one comment.

my comment is: if i were linda, i wouldn't have wanted to meet with john lomacang any more either. i've always loved john lomacang, (as much as you can just knowing someone on tv and by their music) but i feel he has really messed up in this situation and if it were me, i wouldn't have felt comfortable meeting with him and i don't think linda felt comforatable either. that is her priviledge and i don't see why or how anyone can assume to make any judgement call on that.

my question is: when you were given these letters, were you also given permission to post them on the internet?

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let me say first that if Linda did not feel comfortable and felt John would be unfair why did she contact him when all of this first started to come over and talk to them? Why, because knowing him, she knew that he wasn't in DS's pocket and that he would tell it like it is. Only after hearing both sides and what had transpired he went against what she wanted. Then all of a sudden he is in DS's pocket and being ordered to do what DS says. You can see by the letter, Linda did not think that about him or would never have called him in the first place. Also let me add some facts.

Danny at no time discussed the church membership issue with JL or any board member of the Thompsonville church. Neither was he ask for his opinion in the situation. He had no idea what they had decided until later, after the fact.

2. Out of 20 + board members, 11 are not employed by 3abn.
3. John as stated in his later already was singing and preaching on TV and has been the pastor of several different churches. He is employed by the conference. The thompsonville church is not a 3abn church. It is a conference church. 3abn does pay 1/3 of his salary and the conference the rest. He could have his choice of a number of churches and televised speaking and singing engagements elsewhere. He is not dependant on 3abn except for the fact he believes God sent him there. At Linda's invitation I might add.
And yes. I have permission to post these letters. The one by Linda she has already posted but those by the Thompsonville church, I ask for permission when I ask they be sent to me.

Princessdi said:

Here's the thing. Admittedly the board voted to recommend to the church in business sessioin for Linda to be cenusred. however, this business session never took place, Linda was notified, but never attended the scheduled meeting, the church in business session never voted on the board's recommendation to censure Linda. End result, Linda was never cesured.

Now, when she attempted to move her membership, was the church she was attempting to transfer to told of the impending censure and threfore would not accept her membership? Were they told she "had been" censure even though it was not true? Either way, if they rejected her membership they did it under false pretenses, and to be honest, it probably was not a good place for her to be. Or did the next church not hear about the impending censure at all and Linda just asked to be dropped form membership of the 3ABN church?

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people this is not rocket science. They were taking the censure to the church and as soon as she was notified, she sent Darryl Mundell to JL with the letter the very next day saying she wanted her membership dropped. She did it as a technicality so she wouldn't be censured. Why is that so hard. As stated before no matter what anyone does that is linked with 3abn, it isn't going to be right in some people's sight. This was handled as it should have been. The letters are here, you can read them and then let's drop it. Everyone that is trying to find something wrong in what they did would be better off in praying to see things clearly instead of seeing what they want to see.

Actually, I totally understand. I really wasn't trying find anything wrong with the process, just trying to get clarification.

I also want to thank Awsumtenor for reminding me that once the process starts no transfer can occur, unto the process in finished, including the duration of the censure.

Now that being said, while the processed was followed, there was some serious conflict of interest issues, that in a church would not be illegal, but unethical, and definitely unchristian. Almost all involved in the church level had an interest in 3ABN one way or another. This can't be argued anymore that it could be argued that they didnt' follow procedure the the censure, In fact, they were almost uncharacteristically gracious in allowing Linda to resign her membership when they could have held it up.

tomatoe said:

people this is not rocket science. They were taking the censure to the church and as soon as she was notified, she sent Darryl Mundell to JL with the letter the very next day saying she wanted her membership dropped. She did it as a technicality so she wouldn't be censured. Why is that so hard. As stated before no matter what anyone does that is linked with 3abn, it isn't going to be right in some people's sight. This was handled as it should have been. The letters are here, you can read them and then let's drop it. Everyone that is trying to find something wrong in what they did would be better off in praying to see things clearly instead of seeing what they want to see.

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