3abn Continued

truthmagnet · Apr 9, 2007

Kenneth A. Denslow - Illinois Conference President

Kenneth A. Denslow - ASI Secretary

Kenneth A. Denslow - 3ABN Board Director

Princessdi · Apr 9, 2007

There ya go! She was censure by the 3ABN church board....are we really acting as if we are surprised by this? Let's see JL demands Linda appear before the board considering her censure. Danny, however, tells her it will cost her to defend herself before this board. Do you really think JL did not know she could not defend herself with breaking the gag order? Can we say conflict of interest? He can't "not know" to act as the clueless(meaning as if he didnt' know about the gag order prior to demanding her appearance) pastor of the church. She didn't refuse to meet with them, she had no other choice. However, now the spin is she refused to meet with them. She was set up on so many levels it is not funny.

Pinkpanther007 said:
Linda submitted a request that she be excused from her contract with 3ABN for the purpose of testifying at the church business meeting that John Lomacang had insisted on in which Linda was to be censured. Danny let her know that to do so would cost her $150,000.00 her 3ABN severance pay.

Take into consideration that half of Lomacang's salary comes from 3ABN, his wife's full salary comes from 3ABN, their home is provided by 3ABN, his television career is provided by 3ABN, his music career is promoted by 3ABN, his church is owned by 3ABN and is on 3ABN property, Most of his church board gets their income from 3ABN, Most of the church members get their income from 3ABN, and Linda's exhusband controls 3ABN. How wise would it be to entrust her membership to people who are beholden to her exhusband for their careers and income? Considering his demonstrated animosity and malicious behaviour toward her and those associated with her? I believe that she made a difficult decision, but one in which she had little real choice.

Would such people be facing the fate of Jean Fiscalini and lose their jobs as a result of defying Danny on church matters? These are a few of the things that Linda had to consider. He who conrols what the people want, controls the people. This principle is fundamental to this whole mess.

truthmagnet · Apr 9, 2007

The most embarrassing thing happened to me today. My son and I were playing cops and robbers. We were running around the house having a great time. I would go hide and he would find me and arrest me. The last time he caught me, he snapped his toy handcuffs on me. After a few minutes more of pretend, I asked him to take them off. He just looked at me, first confused and then upset. "I've lost the key, Daddy". Well we were in quite a jam. I called my wife over and she couldn't get them off either so she decided to drive me to the police station. Boy, was I embarrassed. I never thought I'd be standing in a police station with handcuffs on. Next time, I'll be more careful and make sure he doesn't catch me! lol - lol

and now for "a version" certain people would repeat.

...."I never thought I'd be standing in a police station with handcuffs on. Next time, I'll be more careful and make sure he doesn't catch me!"....

Princessdi · Apr 9, 2007

Did you really say, "you people"?

steffanphilip said:
I'm sorry, Pickle, but your point was? Stop talking before I do?

But surely you're having a conference right now with noahswife, kevin aka Mr. J, clay, pricess di, gailon, linda, sister, fran, mozart, but my-oh-my, where did you people come from?

StormyOne · Apr 9, 2007

Rosie55 said:
When Linda chose to have her membership dropped from that church, that settled the censure problem for the Church. I mean, why go ahead and censure her when she dropped her membership. Makes perfect sense. That is why the church didn't proceed. The problem was taken care of.

Then Linda joined another church by profession. Thereby avoiding the censure and being possibly disfellowshipped by the previous church.

It's like if you were about to be fired from your job. You go in and speak to your Supervisor and they tell you that you are fired. You then tell them no, you QUIT!!

No it did no such thing... the church must address the Censure issue because it will follow the member wherever they decide to go..... a church transfer can be held up if it is found that the person is NOT a member in good and regular standing.... otherwise people who are disfellowshipped can simply run to another church and act like nothing happened.....

truthmagnet · Apr 9, 2007

define "held up" pls

Pinkpanther007 · Apr 9, 2007

Linda faced significant conflict of interest in the Thompsonville Church. Remember that her ex-husband is the president/CEO of 3ABN and consider the following:
- Half of the pastor's salary comes from 3ABN
- The pastor's wife's salary comes from 3ABN
- The pastor's home is provided by 3ABN
- The pastor's television career is provided by 3ABN
- The pastor's music career is promoted by 3ABN
- The pastor is the one who brought the issue to the board when Linda asked for a transfer
- The church is on 3ABN property and is owned by 3ABN
- The majority of the church board and the members, and/or family and friends, received their income from 3ABN
- Danny refused to release Linda from her contract for the purpose of tesifying at the church business meeting and let her know that if she did, it would cost her $150,000.00

Pinkpanther007 · Apr 9, 2007

There ya go! She was censure by the 3ABN church board....

A church board cannot censure. They do not have that authority. Only the church can censure.

Jimlarmore · Apr 9, 2007

truthmagnet said:
The most embarrassing thing happened to me today. My son and I were playing cops and robbers. We were running around the house having a great time. I would go hide and he would find me and arrest me. The last time he caught me, he snapped his toy handcuffs on me. After a few minutes more of pretend, I asked him to take them off. He just looked at me, first confused and then upset. "I've lost the key, Daddy". Well we were in quite a jam. I called my wife over and she couldn't get them off either so she decided to drive me to the police station. Boy, was I embarrassed. I never thought I'd be standing in a police station with handcuffs on. Next time, I'll be more careful and make sure he doesn't catch me! lol - lol

and now for "a version" certain people would repeat.

...."I never thought I'd be standing in a police station with handcuffs on. Next time, I'll be more careful and make sure he doesn't catch me!"....

I've got a whole lot more embarrasing stories than that. Thanks for the laugh brother, sounds like one of those kodak moments. Did moma take any pictures?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Adventist Dissident · Apr 9, 2007

Pinkpanther007 said:
- The pastor's wife's salary comes from 3ABN

Click to expand...

i know the pastors wife. she is not someone to be messed with. you cross her and off with your head.

Pickle · Apr 9, 2007

Rosie55 said:
YES, the board met and CENSURE was voted on. It didn't go to the whole church because Linda LEFT that church and refused to meet with them. To bad that church didn't follow up on the Board action.

Needless to say, she WAS voted CENSURE by that church board.

In Adventism, church boards cannot censure anyone. They can only recommend it.

djconklin · Apr 9, 2007

I'm still waiting for my post #691.

So far, it sounds like those who claimed Linda was censured by the board, at a minimum, misspoke, or spoke prematurely of having the facts at hand (or, as we refer to Sabbath School: "a pooling of ignorance"). However, not having a copy of the church manual in front of me (and not having checked if it is online--can't do that and this at the same time) I do not know what the church rules and procedures are regrading "censure."

steffanphilip · Apr 9, 2007

Princessdi said:
Did you really say, "you people"?

Please pay attention PD,

I was directly echoing Bob Pickle's words back to him...

You should ask him whether he really said "you people"

djconklin · Apr 9, 2007

Hmm, the church manual (http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/church_manual/) says:

"15. Clarification of the section on "censure" -- it can be for 1 to 12 months and the censured member automatically returns to regular standing as a member unless additional action is voted at the end of the time, but does not automatically return to any church office held and lost at the time censure is voted."

with no reference to what section is being "clarified"! Talk about muddying the waters! Obviously didn't have any lawyers write this stuff up!

Pickle · Apr 9, 2007

Jimlarmore said:
Can anyone post the ASI response on here that gives it's reasons for dropping the investigation? I'm having trouble finding it again on BSDA. I think that needs to be brought to light for the CF lurkers.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

See http://www.save3abn.com/danny-shelton-smokescreen-scheme-asi-statement-2.htm.

The advantage of that one is that you can see Harold's original statement and 3ABN's altered version side by side. Then if you check out some of the surrounding correspondence and such, you will find out that the issuance of that statement was a violation of Harold lance's own confidentiality agreement.

It also contains a number of inaccuracies. For example, it states that a certain document was sent out on October 31 to Linda and Danny and their representatives when in fact Linda was never contacted until November 12, and the document sent out has yet to arrive.

Another problem is that the statement sounds as if Linda left Harold hanging after December 13, while Gailon says that he notified Harold, I think on December 20, that Linda was traveling over the holidays and they would finish her response after she returned around January 4 or 5.

There were problems of communication on all sides, one might be able to say, but the statement doesn't reflect that.

Princessdi · Apr 9, 2007

Watch yourself, now. Ok just I was asking, don't want to get things twisted.

steffanphilip said:
Please pay attention PD,

I was directly echoing Bob Pickle's words back to him...

You should ask him whether he really said "you people"

djconklin · Apr 9, 2007

You should ask him whether he really said "you people"

Trust me, it beats being one of the "used people"!

tall73 · Apr 9, 2007

truthmagnet said:
ok, ty for answering. i just wondered because you and your wife spend so much time on here and i have never known a pastor to have that much free time. not meaning to offend, just curious. how many members are in your church?

I have a multi-church district and it certainly keeps me busy.

Some pastors have hobbies, some don't. I have known a few who like to fly planes. Some who like to play an instrument, some who enjoy acedemic pursuits, etc.

I happen to enjoy theological discussion as part of my free time. Until recently most of my time here was spent in General Theology discussing the Sabbath, State of the dead and other general theological issues. I have learned a great deal from the discussion, and some have even inquired into the church as a result of some of us posting there. I don't consider that wasted time, though it is "free time." I also have had a number of interesting discussions with my wife over theology here.

More recently been involved in some staff affairs, and that I found not to be wasted but perhaps not helpful overall. I therefore resigned.

There have been pastors who I have known who don't have time for hobbies, family, etc. and come to retirement and realize they have done a lot of good but have lost people dear to them.

We actually encourage all of our members to have hobbies in my churches. That is how they meet people. We have had small "target" groups built around hobbies for the express purpose of meeting community members. My other hobby is art.

I therefore choose to make some time for myself, my kids, my spouse (this is a shared hobby), exercise and certainly for my churches.

I give a report to my conference and one of my churches every month showing my daily whereabouts, monthly activities, goals, etc. I meet with my elders weekly in the larger church,and with some of them far more than that. They have not voiced any concern over the time I put in.

Basically pastors get one day off a week. I currently have every night this week filled up with two small group Bible studies (both with non-members, one of whom is very interested), school board meeting, a planning session, , etc. save for this one when my wife goes to her own Bible study group. The day is filled with Bible studies, study, sermon prep, visitation, meetings at times (less frequent than nights), planning, special projects etc.

Lately I have had some concern about my sleep though. I tend to wake up at odd times and can't go back to sleep, so I just read or check out CF.

As to my wife, she is a housewife. She has whatever time her duties at home and church and the kids let her have.

DarylFawcett · Apr 9, 2007

Pastor tall73,

You shouldn't even really need to explain yourself in relation to your time spent here.

DarylFawcett · Apr 9, 2007

Here is what it says on page 194 of the 2005 Edition of the Church Manual:

An erring member may be placed under censure by a vote of the church at any duly called business meeting of the church, provided the member concerned has been notified. The individual may be present if he/she so desires. A vote of censure is for a stated period of time, from a minimum of one month to a maximum of twelve months; it terminates the erring one’s election or appointment to any and all offices he/she may hold in the church and removes the privilege of election to office while under censure. A member under censure has no right to participate by voice or by vote in the affairs of the church and can have no public part in the exercises thereof, such as teaching a Sabbath School class, et cetera. Neither may the individual’s membership be transferred to another church during the period of censure. He/She is not deprived, however, of the privilege of sharing the blessings of Sabbath School, church worship, or the ordinances of the Lord’s house. A vote of censure must not carry any provision involving severance of church membership in case of failure to comply with any conditions imposed.

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