On Last Plea to save the lives of millions....

[laumelilu]

Dear Friends (It's been a while... bound to be a short visit i'm sure)...

With the war on Iraq Day's away, i make one final plea with you to THINK about God's view on this crime against Humanity.

First of all...

Saddam Hussien is an evil man, he is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Iraqi people. He must be removed from power... HE MUST...

HOWEVER... THIS WAR will kill thousands of Iraqi women and children. Those who are oppressed, and have been oppressed for 12 years now... over half Iraq's popullation are children.. vulnerable people.
Currently, and for the past 12 years Children have been dying in hospitals from curable and preventable diseases due to sanctions placed on their country... their water supply and their air has been contaminated by the bombs dropped during the Gulf war.
They are dying... They are vulnerable, poor, suffering humans, Gods creation, his children... It does not matter that they may believe in the Muslim faith... God made them he loves them and cherishes everyone of them. Are We as Christians not called to save these children?? Spiritually and physically???

Why do you support this war?? WHY!? You hold up George W. Bush as some great leader! He is about to slaughter the lives of millions of people...and for what?? Weapons of mass destruction? to remove saddam from power???
There is still not proof of Weapons of Mass Destruction after months of searching!
And why must removing one man from power involve the killing of thousands of vulnberable people!??? Why??

You can't sit there and say that it is "America's duty as the most powerful country on earth" to defend the world for peace.... YOU CANNOT! The government is doing this for personal gain... like the events of the last 50 years!
The Uk and the USA supported and supplied weapons to Saddam Hussien during the time when he gassed the Kurds and slaughtered his own people (1980's).. this support continued right through his worst atrocities.
But when Saddam was no longer in The Governments political interest only THEN was these crimes brought to light.
Then there is the Governments support of the Suharto regime in Indonesia in 1965. America supported this man as his army led to mass slaughter of hundreds of thousands of people, mostly landless peasants.. the event being compared to Nazi Germany... the whole time with The U.S support and weapons...

THIS IS AN UNJUST WAR... and Must History have to repeat itself???

You may argue that this war needs to be fought... WHY can't we get saddam out of power by peaceful means??? WHY???

Do you not understand that these women and children who are going to die are just as important as you and your own children???? Why are Americans held so much higher???? Do they not have a right to live and know the love of Christ??? Does God not love us all equally as his children??

Will bombing there country and killing them bring them to Christ??? Especially if Mr Bush does it in the name of Christianity...???

Please ask yourself... How is God glorified through this war?? HOW??? SHould we not do all things for the glory of God???

All of the Reasons Bush has given for this war on Iraq can be applied to the United States.. Weapons of Mass Destruction, Crimes Against Humaity, Killing of innocent Civilians???

Think.. please think...

Listen to God and your hearts.. and you will surely find that this war does not bring glory to God...

Please Get out there and oppose this war before thousands more die..

In Christs Love.. and all for the Glory of God

Laume...

P.S. I await my next warning and the abuse of conservatives.. BRING IT ON!

 

[stray bullet]

Well, that was a lovely mass of nonsense.

"There is still not proof of Weapons of Mass Destruction after months of searching!"

Actually, he's proven to have them. Thousands of liters of WMDs chemicals and biological agents have gone missing since the inspectors tagged them. Are you going to believe Saddam's claim they have been destroyed? He's under obligation, under UN resolution 1441 to prove or show where all his WMDs have gone. These are weapons we know he has, the UN had tagged and recorded.

" He is about to slaughter the lives of millions of people...and for what?"

Last I checked, GWB's plan didn't call for killing millions of Iraqis. However, Saddam's reign has caused a million Iraqis to die. This was the same nonsense the liberals were spouting about Afghanistan. Now millions of Afghans are coming home and businesses are booming. While Al-Qaeda isn't dead there, the people are happier, healthier and free.

I find it quite interesting you bring up the suffering of the Iraqi people. Why do you wish their suffering to continue? I find these emotional rantings are quite weak, on the basis that lack of war will only bring continued suffering to this nation.


Finally, I'd like to ask you, were you this upset over the bombing of Serbia?
Iraq in 1998?
When 800,000 people were killed in Rwanda?
When the US attacked Somalia in 1993?
When Iraq invaded Kuwait?
When Iraq invaded Iran?

I find the massive hypocrisy out there amusing.

 

[stray bullet]

All of the Reasons Bush has given for this war on Iraq can be applied to the United States.. Weapons of Mass Destruction, Crimes Against Humaity, Killing of innocent Civilians???

I wasn't aware the US had a chapter 7 UN resolution against them on holding weapons of mass destruction. Could you tell me which one that is?

Or will you admit you are making claims on a topic you clearly know nothing about outside of ways to make emotional arguments.

Finally, I would like to hear your proposal on how to remove Saddam from power.

 

[Susan]

Today at 01:54 AM laumelilu said this in Post #1

Dear Friends (It's been a while... bound to be a short visit i'm sure)...

With the war on Iraq Day's away, i make one final plea with you to THINK about God's view on this crime against Humanity.

First of all...

Saddam Hussien is an evil man, he is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Iraqi people. He must be removed from power... HE MUST...

HOWEVER... THIS WAR will kill thousands of Iraqi women and children. Those who are oppressed, and have been oppressed for 12 years now... over half Iraq's popullation are children.. vulnerable people.
Currently, and for the past 12 years Children have been dying in hospitals from curable and preventable diseases due to sanctions placed on their country... their water supply and their air has been contaminated by the bombs dropped during the Gulf war.
They are dying... They are vulnerable, poor, suffering humans, Gods creation, his children... It does not matter that they may believe in the Muslim faith... God made them he loves them and cherishes everyone of them. Are We as Christians not called to save these children?? Spiritually and physically???

Why do you support this war?? WHY!? You hold up George W. Bush as some great leader! He is about to slaughter the lives of millions of people...and for what?? Weapons of mass destruction? to remove saddam from power???
There is still not proof of Weapons of Mass Destruction after months of searching!
And why must removing one man from power involve the killing of thousands of vulnberable people!??? Why??

You can't sit there and say that it is "America's duty as the most powerful country on earth" to defend the world for peace.... YOU CANNOT! The government is doing this for personal gain... like the events of the last 50 years!
The Uk and the USA supported and supplied weapons to Saddam Hussien during the time when he gassed the Kurds and slaughtered his own people (1980's).. this support continued right through his worst atrocities.
But when Saddam was no longer in The Governments political interest only THEN was these crimes brought to light.
Then there is the Governments support of the Suharto regime in Indonesia in 1965. America supported this man as his army led to mass slaughter of hundreds of thousands of people, mostly landless peasants.. the event being compared to Nazi Germany... the whole time with The U.S support and weapons...

THIS IS AN UNJUST WAR... and Must History have to repeat itself???

You may argue that this war needs to be fought... WHY can't we get saddam out of power by peaceful means??? WHY???

Do you not understand that these women and children who are going to die are just as important as you and your own children???? Why are Americans held so much higher???? Do they not have a right to live and know the love of Christ??? Does God not love us all equally as his children??

Will bombing there country and killing them bring them to Christ??? Especially if Mr Bush does it in the name of Christianity...???

Please ask yourself... How is God glorified through this war?? HOW??? SHould we not do all things for the glory of God???

All of the Reasons Bush has given for this war on Iraq can be applied to the United States.. Weapons of Mass Destruction, Crimes Against Humaity, Killing of innocent Civilians???

Think.. please think...

Listen to God and your hearts.. and you will surely find that this war does not bring glory to God...

Please Get out there and oppose this war before thousands more die..

In Christs Love.. and all for the Glory of God

Laume...

P.S. I await my next warning and the abuse of conservatives.. BRING IT ON!

Good post Laume.

May God have mercy and intervene to stop one of the worst national sins in the history of America. ;;^.^;;

 

[stray bullet]

Today at 05:41 AM Susan said this in Post #4




Good post Laume.

May God have mercy and intervene to stop one of the worst national sins in the history of America. ;;^.^;;

Since when is upholding international law a sin?

What are we going to do, just let Saddam do whatever he wants and make all important UN resolutions meaningless?

We already gave peace a chance people. And we got 9-11 instead.

 

[datan]

Today at 10:43 AM stray bullet said this in Post #5


Since when is upholding international law a sin?

what about breaking international law by going to war. the UN Secretary General says that acting without UNSC backing would be violating the UN Charter.

 

[stray bullet]

UNSC already gave us permission under 1441. The US will be acting under 1441.

 

[laumelilu]

Saddam has Weapons of mass Destruction because of Why?? BECAUSE you have Reciepts!!! WOW! What great proof... After the Gulf War the Un went in their and destroyed the last of Iraq's weapons...(Scott Ritter - Former UN Weapons Inspector)...

"Last I checked, GWB's plan didn't call for killing millions of Iraqis. However, Saddam's reign has caused a million Iraqis to die. This was the same nonsense the liberals were spouting about Afghanistan. Now millions of Afghans are coming are booming. home and businesses While Al-Qaeda isn't dead there, the people are happier, healthier and free."

Yes Saddams Reign has caused the deaths of Iraqi's... its disgusting sad and cruel... but who is worse the man who kills or the man that supplies the weapons and supports the man who kills???? THE USA supplied the weapons to gas the Kurds.. THE USA!!! THE USA gave Saddam Full support while he did this!!!!
" Clintons administration gave the decisive support, 80% of the arms, escalating as atrocities increased, is another". (noam Chomsky)

I'm NOT SAYING TO LEAVE SADDAM in power.. however i'm saying it can be done by peaceful means! Regime Change begins at home!

GWB did not say "We are going to mass slaughter Iraqi civilians" OF COURSE HE DIDNT! Do you really think he would get the american peoples support if he did??? You know millions will die. And it won't stop at Iraq either... once Iraq is bombed and over they will move to Iran, saudia Arabia, yemen and so on and so on...Until they have occupied the whole region...


"Finally, I'd like to ask you, were you this upset over the bombing of Serbia?
Iraq in 1998?
When 800,000 people were killed in Rwanda?
When the US attacked Somalia in 1993?
When Iraq invaded Kuwait?
When Iraq invaded Iran?"

Darling, I find it upsetting when any human life is lost by the act of War.. Yes i was upset at these times... But I was also Upset by East Timor/Indonesia (something very close to home for us Australians) when Nazi Germany was repeated.. WITH US SUPPORT AND WEAPONS
I was also upset when The US bombed the Pharmaceutical company in Sudan, killing hundreds and further thousands in the aftermath due to lack of medicine to the people of sudan and sanctions. Sudan sought a UN enquiry into the justifications for the bombing but even that was blocked by washington.
I'm upset when I hear about the events in Nicaragua in the 1980's which was subject to a violent assult by the us. tens of thousands of people died. the country was substancially destroyed; it may never recover.

I am upset when people take the Mainstream government controlled media as gospel... I am upset when people think that america can bomb the world to peices and they will always be in the right... Think of Vietnam... Look at History....

I will NEVER support a Terrorist State EVER.. ANd who is the only convicted Terrorist State in the world!?????? Yes its THE USA. Nicaragua, didn't respond by setting off bombs in Washington, instead they went to the World Court, which ruled in their favour. The USA is the ONLY country in the World to be brought before the World court on charges of Terroism!

Let me get it clear I am not Anti-American people... I however do not believe in a Government which is responsible for the loss of millions of lives...

Now.. I'm a hypocrite????

Sorry

Laume

 

[datan]

who said this:

This resolution contains no 'hidden triggers' and no 'automaticity' with respect to the use of force. If there is a further Iraqi breach, reported to the council by UNMOVIC, the IAEA, or a Member State, the matter will return to the council for discussion….

Would you believe your very own UN ambassador?

1441 explicitly calls for the UN SC to decide what action to take. Nowhere does it sanction use of force. Even Koffi Annan says that without a second resolution, the US would be acting outside the charter.

 

[laumelilu]

You have not asked the question "WHy did we get 9-11"

America has oppressed the region for years... Tell me what happens if you get a group of people and bomb them, take there food, their medicine, let them rott in the gutter, kill their wives, husbands and children.....

People get angry.... They want to fight back... and thats what they did....I'm not saying it was right....But you have to try and understand that these people are desperate people.

Why is America allowed to hold weapons of mass destruction and not Iraq????
Please tell me?? Because Iraq will use them???? Well again look at Americas history... is this the country you want holding Weapons of Mass destruction!???

Laume

 

[stray bullet]

Today at 06:08 AM datan said this in Post #9

who said this:



Would you believe your very own UN ambassador?

1441 explicitly calls for the UN SC to decide what action to take. Nowhere does it sanction use of force. Even Koffi Annan says that without a second resolution, the US would be acting outside the charter.

Well, first of all, you are speculating what the US is going to do. Today the UN will discuss it, so speculating whether or not it's illegal is pointless, as what course of action is going to be taken isn't know.

However, 1441 calls for "serious consequence". No where does it say you need another resolution before acting.

 

[laumelilu]

How do we remove Saddam???

Im no God, I can't tell you how to do that.... I'm not equipped for that... But what I suggest is to not bomb the country over 1 man! We need a regime change and that begins in our own countries. We need to support the people of Iraq... we need to build them up and protect them to stand up against Saddam and not give him the power to kill those who oppose.

With how wonderful and powerful the USA is... surely it must be possible to stop 1 little man!???

We need to pray.. i can't fix it, i cant remove Saddam, God Can. And the God I believe in, would not take the lives of millions of innocent Iraqi civilians to do it. My God is a God of Compassion and Love.

Laume

 

[datan]

11. Directs the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director-General of the IAEA to report immediately to the Council any interference by Iraq with inspection activities, as well as any failure by Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations, including its obligations regarding inspections under this resolution;

12. Decides to convene immediately upon receipt of a report in accordance with paragraphs 4 or 11 above, in order to consider the situation and the need for full compliance with all of the relevant Council resolutions in order to secure international peace and security;

13. Recalls, in that context, that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations;

to equate "serious consequences" with war is a long stretch. It does say that the UNSC will convene to decide what to do, not the US.

 

[stray bullet]

Today at 06:05 AM laumelilu said this in Post #8

Saddam has Weapons of mass Destruction because of Why?? BECAUSE you have Reciepts!!! WOW! What great proof... After the Gulf War the Un went in their and destroyed the last of Iraq's weapons...(Scott Ritter - Former UN Weapons Inspector)...

First of all, Scott Ritter is a pedophile that received hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce a pro-Saddam film. His report is meaningless because he said that most of it was destroyed after the war. Most and 'after the war' is not a good basis to conclude Saddam has no WMDs 12 years later.

Secondly, not because "we" have receipts. The UN weapons inspectors taggeds thousands of weapons of mass destruction before being kicked out in 1998. This is a proven fact that he had them. 1441 calls on Saddam to prove he has destroyed them or show them to the UN weapons inspectors. He has yet to do this.

Already he has been found in violation of having two types of missiles he shouldn't have. In addition, he refuses to cooperate and continues to play games with inspectors. He must be willing to give up with WMDs and aid the inspectors. He has never cooperated fully. He's only played games.

Yes Saddams Reign has caused the deaths of Iraqi's... its disgusting sad and cruel... but who is worse the man who kills or the man that supplies the weapons and supports the man who kills???? THE USA supplied the weapons to gas the Kurds.. THE USA!!! THE USA gave Saddam Full support while he did this!!!!
" Clintons administration gave the decisive support, 80% of the arms, escalating as atrocities increased, is another". (noam Chomsky)

Now you are lacking clarity. You quoted Chomsky, who is anything but objective, and said Clinton's administartion gave arms, in addtion to saying the US gave the weapons to gas the kurds, which took place in the 1980s. Could you straighten your facts out more easily so I can tell you how your wrong? Thanks.

I'm NOT SAYING TO LEAVE SADDAM in power.. however i'm saying it can be done by peaceful means! Regime Change begins at home!

Please present your solution on getting Saddam out of power.

GWB did not say "We are going to mass slaughter Iraqi civilians" OF COURSE HE DIDNT! Do you really think he would get the american peoples support if he did??? You know millions will die. And it won't stop at Iraq either... once Iraq is bombed and over they will move to Iran, saudia Arabia, yemen and so on and so on...Until they have occupied the whole region...

To you have a source for any of these claims?

I ignored the rest of your post because it's blatant American-bashing that has nothing to do with the topic on hand. I would rather see your facts opinions, rather than ad hominem arguments.

Your post seems to be nothing more than condescending emotional arguments and ad hominem attacks on America.

 

[stray bullet]

Today at 06:17 AM datan said this in Post #13



to equate "serious consequences" with war is a long stretch. It does say that the UNSC will convene to decide what to do, not the US.

Obviously you don't know much about UN diplomacy. "Old fashioned Texas *** Whoppin'" isn't the kind of thing you put on a resolution.

Serious Consequences implies just that.

 

[datan]

yes, but my point is that even your ambassdor admits that 1441 does not automatically call for war.

And if you read it carefully, it says that the UNSC will convene to decide what to do

 

[laumelilu]

Ahh.. why is it that every time i come on this site and quote books and facts from people i always get some reason why that persons research and hard work is irrelivent!? When you have no sources at all except what the mass government controlled media has force fed you through your very tightly controlled media.???

I have given you the sources... if you want to disregard them on rumours of peoples personal lives that fine.... personally the fact that the guy is a pedophile really doesn't interest me at all , like clintons little sex story didnt bother me either.. to quote the words of the great micheal franti "I don't give a %$#@ who they are screwing in private, i give a %$#@ about who they are screwing in public".
As for Gassing the KURDS 80% of the arms were given by the USA during the clinton administration to Saddam... with full support...

I'm finding it quite hard to have an intelligent conversation with you, as you seem to be very deffensive but with little proof or reason behind your pro-war stance... except that the man on TV told me so.

Please stop talking to me like I'm an idiot.. I have devoted the last 2 years of my life researching crimes against humanity. America are responsible for some of the worst.., that you can not argue no matter how many people you disregard due to a personal life rumour.

Laume

Laume

 

[stray bullet]

Today at 06:10 AM laumelilu said this in Post #10

You have not asked the question "WHy did we get 9-11"

America has oppressed the region for years... Tell me what happens if you get a group of people and bomb them, take there food, their medicine, let them rott in the gutter, kill their wives, husbands and children.....

I didn't ask the question and won't as it's not important. Bin Laden and his ilk use reasons such as what you posted just as leaders in the past used nationalism, religion and race to motivate their people to war. Bin laden simply wants to make himself more powerful and to spread militant Islam.

The US, he claims, was attacked because we put on soldiers on 'holy' Saudi land to protect them and Kuwait from Iraq. A more accurate reason is because he hates the Saudis worse than the Iraqis and wished they took over. That, and to bring the US to war in Afghanistan where he believed we would be defeated and help rise militant islam.

Why is America allowed to hold weapons of mass destruction and not Iraq????

Because Iraq has a chapter 7 UN resolution against them for holding WMDs. Part of staying in power after the Gulf War involved an agreement remove his WMDs. If the US agreed to removing their WMDs, they should too, but they haven't.

Please tell me?? Because Iraq will use them????

Will? No, because they have used them and they agreed to getting rid of them.

Well again look at Americas history... is this the country you want holding Weapons of Mass destruction!???

Your attacks on America make your arguments seem less logical and more petty.

 

[stray bullet]

Today at 06:31 AM datan said this in Post #16

yes, but my point is that even your ambassdor admits that 1441 does not automatically call for war.

And if you read it carefully, it says that the UNSC will convene to decide what to do

1441 calls for it. I already pointed out the exact phrase used. Unless you can present to me proof that the UN needs to make another resolution, your claims are meaningless.

 

[laumelilu]

Today at 11:33 AM stray bullet said this in Post #18



I didn't ask the question and won't as it's not important. Bin Laden and his ilk use reasons such as what you posted just as leaders in the past used nationalism, religion and race to motivate their people to war. Bin laden simply wants to make himself more powerful and to spread militant Islam.

The US, he claims, was attacked because we put on soldiers on 'holy' Saudi land to protect them and Kuwait from Iraq. A more accurate reason is because he hates the Saudis worse than the Iraqis and wished they took over. That, and to bring the US to war in Afghanistan where he believed we would be defeated and help rise militant islam.



Because Iraq has a chapter 7 UN resolution against them for holding WMDs. Part of staying in power after the Gulf War involved an agreement remove his WMDs. If the US agreed to removing their WMDs, they should too, but they haven't.



Will? No, because they have used them and they agreed to getting rid of them.



Your attacks on America make your arguments seem less logical and more petty.

It's not important to ask why they bombed the Twin Towers.. EXACTLY!!!!

And that is what the AMerican Government is using to get American people on side.... WHY ASK QUESTIONS... JUST BOMB THEM! It's not important why we are bombing them.. just trust the government! Why is irrelivent... ISN'T THAT RIGHT!!!!!

Don't you see this war is for political gain and nothing more???


YES Saddam has used WMD.... THE USA's Weapons while the government sat back and said "Sure go ahead, if killing innocent people makes you happy.. thats fine, we'll support you all the way as long as you stay on side"

These are not attacks on America.. These are attacks on those who have committed Crimes against Humanity.... I do not hate America... I'm against the Government not the people...

Laume