2LoT Violated

[Finrod]

Interestingly enough, a group of scientists has claimed to violate the 2LoT.

 

Check it out here.

 

My thoughts on it:

 

The second law is an observational law and not a derived one (except for probability theory). It applies to macroscopic setups.

One of the first challanges to the theory was a thought experiment based on atom sized demons. You make a box with a small hole in it. Put a demon in front of it and seal it. The demon moves aside when an atom from side 1 is heading towards him and lets it into side 2. However, he blocks atoms from side 2. After awhile all the atoms from side 1 will be on side 2 which will have a large pressure increase. You can gain energy from this.

So the secret to violating the 2nd law is to work on the atomic scale with something that can selectively act on particle movements. You still use energy, but you don't need waste heat.

 

Any thoughts?

 

[Lacmeh]

The article was quite short.

I miss the observation of temperature. The article doesn´t say, if the temperature of the water and the bead were measured at all.

 

 

[Stormy]

The demon moves aside when an atom from side 1 is heading towards him and lets it into side 2. However, he blocks atoms from side 2.

Especially considering the increase in pressure that would result... what is to stop a flow of atoms being released from side two when the demon steps aside to allow in an atom from side 1?

But I suppose even a temporary energy increase would violate the law.

Sounds resonable.

Do you have any more supporting links?

 

[Stormy]

This is also part of my theory of origination of life. Replace your demon with God and your box with this earth and complexity could result rather than entropy through evolution during a time period needed or upon systems that would be necessary but only by his Supreme intervention.

Laws do not apply to the power of God.

 

[Jerry Smith]

Especially considering the increase in pressure that would result... what is to stop a flow of atoms being released from side two when the demon steps aside to allow in an atom from side 1?

But I suppose even a temporary energy increase would violate the law.

Sounds resonable.

But later shown to fail. The entropy decrease in the demon/box system is shown to be offset by the entropy increase in the system which the demon uses to observe the approaching atoms and to distinguish inside from out.
I forget whose paper showed Maxwell's demon to fail - but I remember that it has been done.

 

[Jerry Smith]

God and your box with this earth and complexity could result rather than entropy through evolution during a time period needed or upon systems that would be necessary but only by his Supreme intervention.

The increase in complexity over time with evolution occurs simultaneously with the increase in entropy. Evolution has not been shown to violate the second law of thermodynamics. That is one reason why it is not considered falsified, and it doesn't have to rely on supernaturalistic explanations in order to survive.

 

[Stormy]

There is so much that I need to study. I am glad for you Jerry that you are able to see Evolution as complete with answers to every question that you ask. I instead see it has a lot of loose strings that have been tied together but easily unravel into questions.

You are able to do this because the Supernatural aspect of our life has not hit you to the degree that it has me. I may never totally understand life ... its origination... and its eventual destination. But I can tell you in all truthfullness that what we think we know can be laid to waste in seconds by someone who is "different." It has been proven to me.

 

[Jerry Smith]

I am glad for you Jerry that you are able to see Evolution as complete with answers to every question that you ask.

I don't see it that way. I will run out of time before I run out of questions that it can answer though.

 

[Finrod]

This is also part of my theory of origination of life. Replace your demon with God and your box with this earth and complexity could result rather than entropy through evolution during a time period needed or upon systems that would be necessary but only by his Supreme intervention.

Not te same. It is like I said, 2LoT works at the macroscopic scale.