2 Questions for SDA

FiddleChick · Apr 6, 2006

Ok I just have a few questions for all the SDA. I am a Christian who is very good friends with a SDA family, but I myself am not SDA. Basically I have come to the understanding that the only difference in me and SDA is that we choose to have our Sabbath on two different days. Is this right?

Also another thing that I have heard about SDA is that they believe that when you die, you just 'sleep' in your grave. I hope this isn't true, but I would like to know.

And lastly,
Typically, in general, what do SDA think about other denominations? Do SDA usually or ever marry or date 'outside' of their 'religion'? Is that generally considered wrong by their fellow SDA's? I know someone who is SDA and has expressed interest in dating other people outside of his religion (Christians just not SDA) he is very hard core SDA to top it off. Has anyone ever had an experience or heard of this happening much? I personally don't like 'religion', and believe that if you love the Lord with all your heart and trust in him and want/try to do the right things, you should not be 'banned' from having relationships 'outside' of your religion with other people who feel the same.

If anyone could help me on these subjects, I would be very grateful!! Thanks!!

ttreg · Apr 6, 2006

we differ from other denominatios with other things then the Sabbath here are the fundamental beleifs of the SDA church http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html
you can also go here: http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/storacle_lessons.asp

Cliff2 · Apr 6, 2006

FiddleChick said:
Ok I just have a few questions for all the SDA. I am a Christian who is very good friends with a SDA family, but I myself am not SDA. Basically I have come to the understanding that the only difference in me and SDA is that we choose to have our Sabbath on two different days. Is this right?

Also another thing that I have heard about SDA is that they believe that when you die, you just 'sleep' in your grave. I hope this isn't true, but I would like to know.

And lastly,
Typically, in general, what do SDA think about other denominations? Do SDA usually or ever marry or date 'outside' of their 'religion'? Is that generally considered wrong by their fellow SDA's? I know someone who is SDA and has expressed interest in dating other people outside of his religion (Christians just not SDA) he is very hard core SDA to top it off. Has anyone ever had an experience or heard of this happening much? I personally don't like 'religion', and believe that if you love the Lord with all your heart and trust in him and want/try to do the right things, you should not be 'banned' from having relationships 'outside' of your religion with other people who feel the same.

If anyone could help me on these subjects, I would be very grateful!! Thanks!!

The Sabbath is often a difference between SDA's and other Christians.

As you know SDA's keep the 7th day Sabbath.

We believe that the Bible says that when we die we do sleep until Jesus comes.

Imagine you were married and one day your husband and yourself were involved in a very bad accident.

Just for the sake of the illustration I am giving, you were killed and went staraight to heaven as many Christians believe today.

As time went by your husband did get over your death and found that he wanted to marry. He had found a very lovely woman and they did get married.

All the time you are watching in heaven while all this is going on.

How do you think you would feel about all that?

Perhaps it would not concern you at all. Then on the other hand you may take the other view on seeing your husband get married again.

Your next point about marriage by an SDA to a non-SDA.

It is not encouraged at all. We believe that a couple should be equally yoked together as the Bible says so.

I hope this helps you have a better understanding of what we believe.

Blessings

Cheryl06 · Apr 8, 2006

Cliff2 said:
The Sabbath is often a difference between SDA's and other Christians.

As you know SDA's keep the 7th day Sabbath.

We believe that the Bible says that when we die we do sleep until Jesus comes.

Imagine you were married and one day your husband and yourself were involved in a very bad accident.

Just for the sake of the illustration I am giving, you were killed and went staraight to heaven as many Christians believe today.

As time went by your husband did get over your death and found that he wanted to marry. He had found a very lovely woman and they did get married.

All the time you are watching in heaven while all this is going on.

How do you think you would feel about all that?

Perhaps it would not concern you at all. Then on the other hand you may take the other view on seeing your husband get married again.

Your next point about marriage by an SDA to a non-SDA.

It is not encouraged at all. We believe that a couple should be equally yoked together as the Bible says so.

I hope this helps you have a better understanding of what we believe.

Blessings

great explanation
why would God who I know to be loving and compassionate want us to be in Heaven where we are supposed to be happy, and watch our loved ones down here on earth to suffer pain and hearttache. Quite simple He doesn't which is why we sleep til He comes to take us Home

seangoh · Apr 9, 2006

hi, yes Adventists regard friday sundown till saturday sundown as the Sabbath day. Sabbath by definition means that time period actually.

We also believe that when you die you just die and stay dead.lol..what an assuring thought don't you think?

As for choice of a partner, it's all about practicality. Wouldn't you prefer marrying someone who has similar values with you? The Bible gives a general statement on being equally yoked and it applies here too. A baptist can marry a presbyterian but still there are some differences in beliefs and such differences can break the relationship. So ideally it's best to stay on the safe side and get someone with similar values and beliefs.

Riddick · Apr 9, 2006

FiddleChick said:
Basically I have come to the understanding that the only difference in me and SDA is that we choose to have our Sabbath on two different days. Is this right?

you choose to worship on sunday, that is one difference between us. the term "sabbath" refers to the specific day of the week "saturday".

FiddleChick said:
Also another thing that I have heard about SDA is that they believe that when you die, you just 'sleep' in your grave. I hope this isn't true, but I would like to know.

that is true, it is a "dead" sleep, which you will not awaken from until christ returns. the good thing about it, is that you don't have to be in heaven watching your friends and family die from car accidents, gunshots, or just slowly die from old age. that is definately an advantage to being dead in the grave. think about it: how can you have fun in heaven watching your friends and family die from disease, etc.? no way you can be happy in heaven watching that go on down here. much smarter to be dead waiting from christ's return.

FiddleChick said:
Typically, in general, what do SDA think about other denominations?

probly the same thing they think about us.

FiddleChick said:
Do SDA usually or ever marry or date 'outside' of their 'religion'?

no. this is what jesus referred to as "being unequally yoked." there are exceptions, of course, but generally, no.

FiddleChick said:
you should not be 'banned' from having relationships 'outside' of your religion with other people who feel the same.

we are not banned from relationships outside of SDAs. that is much different from marrying someone outside the faith, however.

Cliff2 · Apr 11, 2006

Cheryl06 said:
great explanation
why would God who I know to be loving and compassionate want us to be in Heaven where we are supposed to be happy, and watch our loved ones down here on earth to suffer pain and hearttache. Quite simple He doesn't which is why we sleep til He comes to take us Home

This is an issue that I have never been able to grasp. Many Christains believe that at death the dead person is taken to heaven.

Now if I was truly in love with such a person I would really want to go and join them.

Why so many tears at the graveside if we know that the person is now in heaven.

As SDA's we do not believe they are in heaven but sleeping until the resurrection.

Blessings

Sophia7 · Apr 11, 2006

Riddick said:
no. this is what jesus referred to as "being unequally yoked." there are exceptions, of course, but generally, no.

we are not banned from relationships outside of SDAs. that is much different from marrying someone outside the faith, however.

One thing that I would like to clarify is that it is not uncommon for Adventists to marry people of other denominations. It happens all the time although it is discouraged for the reasons mentioned above. It causes a lot of conflict within marriages, especially in raising children, when two people cannot agree on their fundamental religious beliefs.

My husband and I have experienced some of these problems in our own families. Both of our mothers were Adventists who married non-Adventists. My dad was a Lutheran when my parents married, and we often attended the Lutheran Church when I was young. He eventually decided to join the Adventist Church, but that doesn't usually happen; more often, one or both people quit going to church. Also, my sister married a Catholic and is now divorced and remarried to another Catholic.

My husband's dad was a Catholic, and his mom was an Adventist, and by the time he and his brother were born, both parents had left their respective churches and practiced no religion. Their marriage ended in divorce, and his mom is now remarried to a guy who was raised as an atheist. My husband went to the Adventist Church when he was growing up, but only because his grandparents took him.

This issue has also come up in our churches several times. My husband, as an Adventist pastor, is not supposed to perform marriage ceremonies for an Adventist who is marrying a non-Adventist. There are some pastors who will compromise on this, but my husband stands up for these principles, and it often upsets people. However, if he is marrying people before God, he wants them to have the best possible outlook for marriage and not start out with a huge spiritual handicap that will affect not only them but also all of the people around them.

I would advise anyone thinking of getting married or even just dating (because you are probably going to marry someone that you have dated first) to choose someone who shares the same religious beliefs--at least on the things that are most important and most likely to cause conflict in the family if there is dissention. People can disagree on little things, and obviously no two people can always agree, but the big differences that they might gloss over while dating will become more and more divisive once they are married.

Sophia7 · Apr 11, 2006

FiddleChick said:
Also another thing that I have heard about SDA is that they believe that when you die, you just 'sleep' in your grave. I hope this isn't true, but I would like to know.

I just wanted to address a couple of your points. Some have already commented on our beliefs about death. Here is a link that presents the biblical evidence for our views:
http://www.christianforums.com/t2196368-the-bible-doctrine-concerning-death.html

I would also like to point out that we believe that death is temporary and that we will be resurrected when Jesus comes. Here is what 1 Corinthians 15 says about our hope of the resurrection:

1 Corinthians 15:12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Here is more from later in the chapter:

1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-- 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

55 "Where, O death, is your victory?

Where, O death, is your sting?"

56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

Notice that the Bible says here that we do not put on immortality until Jesus comes to resurrect the dead in Christ and take them to heaven with those who are still living at His coming. And here is one more text, from 1 Thessalonians 4:

1 Thessalonians 4:13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage each other with these words.

FiddleChick said:
And lastly,
Typically, in general, what do SDA think about other denominations? Do SDA usually or ever marry or date 'outside' of their 'religion'? Is that generally considered wrong by their fellow SDA's? I know someone who is SDA and has expressed interest in dating other people outside of his religion (Christians just not SDA) he is very hard core SDA to top it off. Has anyone ever had an experience or heard of this happening much?

See my previous post for my response to this.

FiddleChick said:
I personally don't like 'religion', and believe that if you love the Lord with all your heart and trust in him and want/try to do the right things, you should not be 'banned' from having relationships 'outside' of your religion with other people who feel the same.

The problem is that even if you love the Lord with all your heart and trust Him, we still have many different denominations, all claiming that this is the most important thing. And I agree that it is. Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are to love the Lord your God and to love your neighbor. However, the application of these commandments varies widely among people of different denominations, and that is what causes much of the friction. If you choose not to belong to any denomination, that's up to you, but then you should probably find a husband who shares your views on that.

One of our fundamental beliefs (and I would say the most important one) is that we are saved by grace, through faith in Christ. I think most Christians can agree on this in theory. Practically, though, just about every denomination has different ways of explaining and applying that principle. They also have different ways of defining what you referred to as doing "the right things." The Seventh-day Adventist Church holds to certain beliefs that are out of the mainstream of most Protestant denominations--and if you haven't already read them, you can go to this site:
http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

A "hard core SDA," as you put it, would have a hard time reconciling many of his beliefs and lifestyle practices with those of another Christian who is not an Adventist. It causes a lot of tension and conflict in marriage. Friendships are great, but I would strongly advise against romantic relationships with anyone who does not share your same basic beliefs and religious practices, especially if you are somewhat unfavorable toward organized religion or denominational affiliations.

TrustAndObey · Apr 19, 2006

I have started approaching the whole "asleep until the resurrection" conflict a little differently recently.

For those that believe you go straight to heaven when you die, I'd like to see some scriptural backing for that. I don't think it's a crazy thing to ask for.

What I usually get answered with is a PARABLE and two or three other verses. That's IT.

There is undeniable proof (within Scripture) that the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is indeed a Parable, and it's about the choices we make in life...NOT about what happens to us after we die.

Verse after verse after verse talks about how we sleep in our graves until the resurrection, so when someone tells me that they sure "hope" we don't believe we sleep in the grave after death, I just have to take a step back and think "they're fighting with Scripture, not with me."

moicherie · Apr 20, 2006

Bear in mind two Adventists getting married to each other does not guarantee success as our divorce rates testify......

moicherie · Apr 20, 2006

Bear in mind two Adventists getting married to each other does not guarantee success as our divorce rates testify......

Cliff2 · Apr 20, 2006

moicherie said:
Bear in mind two Adventists getting married to each other does not guarantee success as our divorce rates testify......

Correct, far too much divorce in the Adventist Church.

seangoh · Apr 22, 2006

Cliff2 said:
Correct, far too much divorce in the Adventist Church.

Yes i'm not surprised too. Because 2 adventists can be unequally yoked too. Most likely, i believe,because the values are different. It's not just belief in the Adventist faith that matters, but life values too.

winslow · May 13, 2006

mystery4 · May 27, 2006

winslow said:
If my wife followed the belief of not entering relationships outside the faith we would never have dated, let alone gotten married.

I know of a few of my classmates (studying theology to be pastors) who had their wives not married them, then they would probably have never been Adventists let alone even answering God's call to the ministry. Also my Mum would never have become an Adventist either had my Dad not married her.

Tavita · Jun 1, 2006

(Rev 7:1) After his I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that no wind should blow on the earth, or on the sea, or upon any tree.

(Rev 7:2) And I saw another angel ascend from the sunrising, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a great voice to the four angels to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

(Rev 7:3) saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we shall have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.

(Rev 7:4) And I heard the number of them that were sealed, a hundred and forty and four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the children of Israel:

(Rev 7:5) Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand;

(Rev 7:6) Of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand;

(Rev 7:7) Of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand;

(Rev 7:8) Of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

(Rev 7:9) After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands;

(Rev 7:10) and they cry with a great voice, saying, Salvation unto our God who sitteth on the throne, and unto the Lamb.

(Rev 7:11) And all the angels were standing round about the throne, and about the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

(Rev 7:12) saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

(Rev 7:13) And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, These that are arrayed in white robes, who are they, and whence came they?

(Rev 7:14) And I say unto him, My lord, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they that come of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

(Rev 7:15) Therefore are they before the throne of God; and they serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall spread his tabernacle over them.

(Rev 7:16) They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun strike upon them, nor any heat:

(Rev 7:17) for the Lamb that is in the midst of the throne shall be their shepherd, and shall guide them unto fountains of waters of life: and God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes.

In regards to sleeping in the grave, what do you make of the above scripture concerning those who have come out of tribulation being before His throne and serve him day and night.

Is this after the resurrection or before? The passage jumps straight from the 144,000 being sealed to the saints before the throne which makes me think the resurrection hasn't taken place yet?

Can anyone shed some light on it?

OntheDL · Jun 2, 2006

Tavita said:
In regards to sleeping in the grave, what do you make of the above scripture concerning those who have come out of tribulation being before His throne and serve him day and night.

Is this after the resurrection or before? The passage jumps straight from the 144,000 being sealed to the saints before the throne which makes me think the resurrection hasn't taken place yet?

Can anyone shed some light on it?

Hi,

The 144000 are the last generation of true believers upon Jesus' return. The bible talks above two type of believers whom will be taken up at the second coming. Those who are dead in christ and those who are alive (1 Thess 4:15-17, and also typified on the Mount of Transfiguration).

The 144000 are the last living generation that will never see death.

Rev 7 & 14 are the 2 chapters that talks about the 144000. It says they serve around the throne. This is in the spiritual sense. These 144000 are perfectly christ-like character-wise. There is a thread on the Sanctuary study that will explore this particular scene. Please watch for it.

Also the 144000 will not be identified/sealed until before the 7 final plagues. So the vision chronicly could be from that time to after the second coming. And Rev 14 talks about those 'were redeemed from the earth', so that vision could be about after the resurrection. But the focus of the visions of the 144000 is about their characters.

Hope this makes sense.

Tavita · Jun 2, 2006

OntheDL said:
Hi,

The 144000 are the last generation of true believers upon Jesus' return. The bible talks above two type of believers whom will be taken up at the second coming. Those who are dead in christ and those who are alive (1 Thess 4:15-17, and also typified on the Mount of Transfiguration).

The 144000 are the last living generation that will never see death.

Rev 7 & 14 are the 2 chapters that talks about the 144000. It says they serve around the throne. This is in the spiritual sense. These 144000 are perfectly christ-like character-wise. There is a thread on the Sanctuary study that will explore this particular scene. Please watch for it.

Also the 144000 will not be identified/sealed until before the 7 final plagues. So the vision chronicly could be from that time to after the second coming. And Rev 14 talks about those 'were redeemed from the earth', so that vision could be about after the resurrection. But the focus of the visions of the 144000 is about their characters.

Hope this makes sense.

Thanks OntheDL.
Though I wasn't really concerned with the 144,000 as much as with the multitude that stands before the throne. These were those who came out of great tribulation, a number too great to count and they served the Lord before the throne.

(Rev 7:9) After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands;

This seems to take place before the half hour's silence after the Lamb broke the seventh seal and then there was judgement sent upon the earth. There is also the vision of the prayers of the saints still on the earth being offered.
I don't believe this multitude who stand before the throne serving the Lord is in a spiritual sense, as these verses show, they were those who 'died' physically, in the great tribulation.

13 ¶ Then one of the twentyfour elders asked me, Who are these who are clothed in white? Where did they come from?
14 And I said to him, Sir, you are the one who knows.
Then he said to me, These are the ones who died in the great tribulation. They have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and made them white.
15 That is why they stand in front of Gods throne
and serve him day and night in his Temple.

I'm not saying that the belief that we sleep before the resurrection is wrong, I'd like to look at it further, I just wonder why this multitude of dead saints are before the throne, before the resurrection. I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture and wonder what the SDA stance is on that too.

OntheDL · Jun 2, 2006

Tavita said:
Thanks OntheDL.
Though I wasn't really concerned with the 144,000 as much as with the multitude that stands before the throne. These were those who came out of great tribulation, a number too great to count and they served the Lord before the throne.

(Rev 7:9) After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands;

This seems to take place before the half hour's silence after the Lamb broke the seventh seal and then there was judgement sent upon the earth. There is also the vision of the prayers of the saints still on the earth being offered.
I don't believe this multitude who stand before the throne serving the Lord is in a spiritual sense, as these verses show, they were those who 'died' physically, in the great tribulation.

13 ¶ Then one of the twenty–four elders asked me, “Who are these who are clothed in white? Where did they come from?”
14 And I said to him, “Sir, you are the one who knows.”
Then he said to me, “These are the ones who died in the great tribulation. They have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and made them white.
15 “That is why they stand in front of God’s throne
and serve him day and night in his Temple.

I'm not saying that the belief that we sleep before the resurrection is wrong, I'd like to look at it further, I just wonder why this multitude of dead saints are before the throne, before the resurrection. I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture and wonder what the SDA stance is on that too.

Hi,

I think I know what you are asking...

If you look up the original Greek, the phrase in vs14 is: "erchomenoi ek", meaning "go from" or "come out". I looked up KJV, NKJV, NLB, NIV... they all say came out or have come out of the great tribulation. I don't know what translation you quoted from. But you quoted it correctly in your previous question. I think you should double check that. It doesn't say they are those who died in the tribulation.

About the multitude... they are by no means referring to those who are dead in Christ. The multitude John saw after he heard are the 144000. They are the same group. Here's the thing... when Hebrew mindset tells something important, it tells again but slightly different, to emphasize it. This pattern is found repeatedly in the Bible. So the listener gets views from diferent angles for the same object. The picture is more complete.

Rev 7 deals with the 144000. If we read it carefully, we read that John first heard the number of the group: 144000. He then saw the group. It is a multitude. 144000 is a multitude that no one can count. Also multitude does not necessarily mean milions. Use Jesus' resurrection story as an example, there were multitude who were resurrected with Jesus. They walked the streets of Jerusalem. They were not an army of milions. So multitude is used to refer to a group. The Greek word for multitude is 'ochlos', meaning company, number of people, a class of people...

Hope this clears it up...

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