What is the order of creation of birds and land animals in the bible compare to the evolutionary time table? Does evolution say land evolved into birds? Some verse from the Bible would help. Thanks.
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2 Peter 3:8
- Thread starter grace24
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Not sure what you're asking here. If you're asking where birds are supposed to have come from, the most commonly accepted evolutionary scenario suggests that they came from small, meat-eating dinosaurs.
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jeffweeder
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Hellooooo
Birds and fish on the 5th day and land animals and man on the 6th day.
Gen 1
Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens."
21 God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
22 God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth."
23 There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.
24 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so.
25 God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
28 God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth."
29 Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;
30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so.
31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
Birds and fish on the 5th day and land animals and man on the 6th day.
Gen 1
Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens."
21 God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
22 God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth."
23 There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.
24 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so.
25 God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
28 God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth."
29 Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;
30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so.
31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
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jeffweeder
Veteran
2pet 3
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
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jeffweeder
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Nah, I doubt that the inspired author would contradict himself.
Gen 2
Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him."
19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky,( see Gen 1 for the timing) and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.
20 The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him.
God knew birds ( feathered variety
) and animals wouldnt be suitable...surely.
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philadiddle
Drumming circles around you
Why are you laughing? Because it seems unreasonable at first glance? Maybe you could have an open mind about the evidence that we find in God's creation and see where it leads you, instead of laughing something off because it seems at first to be counter intuitive.
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jeffweeder
Veteran
Same place it was on the 3rd day.
Gen 1
9 Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so.
10 God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them"; and it was so.
12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good.
13 There was evening and there was morning, a third day.
Check this out though....
Gen 2
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.
5 Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the LORD God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground.
6 But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground.
7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
8 The LORD God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed.
9 Out of the ground the LORD God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
So even though God created plants on day 3 , they didnt sprout until Adam was on the scene 3 days later.
This has symbiotic stuff written all over it. Theres no way their are millions of years of evolution between the days of Genesis creation. Rather it seems that it all had to be in place in quick succession for the whole mechanism to function together.
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Same place it was on the 3rd day.
I'm sorry i meant where is land animals on the 6 day. But forget it i already found it. But land is on the 3rd day yes. And where does it say that plant didn't sprout on day 6 when Adam was created? I couldn't find. all i see is that no plant had sprouted it. Btw, I came across that same point you show me. Here:
Genesis 1:11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them”; and it was so.
Is that 1 day? Unless a day is longer than 1 day.
Did God already made plants full grown and bore fruits? Or did God allow natural means (which can take 1 year or so) to produce fruits? And on what verse can that be supported?
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It's just funny because they came from small eaten dinosaurs. Yes it seem unreasonable at first.
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jeffweeder
Veteran
I posted the scripture in my last post.
http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Ge 2:5')
http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Ge 2:5')http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Ge 2:5')http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Ge 2:5')
Can any plant sprout without the sun in day 4...and man on day 6?
Just trying to point out how it was necessary for the days had to be in close proximity.
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You said: "So even though God created plants on day 3 , they didnt sprout until Adam was on the scene 3 days later"
From what i understand, Genesis 2:5 is not saying that plants have sprouted. It is saying that no plants have sprouted because the Lord have not sent rain on the earth for man to work the ground. So that mean plants have sprouted? It's hard to see that is the case.
That is a good reasoning. But can God create a full grown garden with full grown plants with fruits already in place? Before the sun on day 4, there was already light that God made on day 1. The sun doesn't determine the day and night yet. Well, from what i see.
I think you meant Genesis 1:11-12 instead? Since that's the only verse that plants sprout.
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OK, some simpler answers that hopefully help:
First, as has been pointed out, the two genesis accounts disagree on the order of creation, with Gen 2 having man created before the plants and animals, the opposite of Gen 1. The many differences between the two parallel accounts makes it clear to many Bible scholars that these two accounts were written by two different people, at two different times, in two different places, with two different goals in mind, and only later pasted in one after the other by a third person. That's not just what Papias is saying, this is the view of the vast majority of non-fundamentalist Bible scholars.
Next - both Genesis accounts (if a literal reading is used) do not match the order of appearance found by science. For instance, the Gen 1 account has
Birds on day 5, land animals on day 6 (science shows that land animals predated birds by at least 200 million years)
Land plants (Day 3) before the sun and other stars (day 4). Note that the sun and moon are more similar than the different stars in the first genesis account, yet science shows the opposite - that the sun is a star and not at all like the moon, and that all those existed literally billions of years before land plants (different order).
There are plenty of other things in either Genesis story that show it's not literal, that are cues to remind us to take it figuratively, like the description of the earth starting out with all ocean and no land - that was never the case, the earth started out with no ocean and all land, the oceans formed over millions of years of rain as the earth cooled, etc.
Does that make things more clear?
Papias
First, as has been pointed out, the two genesis accounts disagree on the order of creation, with Gen 2 having man created before the plants and animals, the opposite of Gen 1. The many differences between the two parallel accounts makes it clear to many Bible scholars that these two accounts were written by two different people, at two different times, in two different places, with two different goals in mind, and only later pasted in one after the other by a third person. That's not just what Papias is saying, this is the view of the vast majority of non-fundamentalist Bible scholars.
Next - both Genesis accounts (if a literal reading is used) do not match the order of appearance found by science. For instance, the Gen 1 account has
Birds on day 5, land animals on day 6 (science shows that land animals predated birds by at least 200 million years)
Land plants (Day 3) before the sun and other stars (day 4). Note that the sun and moon are more similar than the different stars in the first genesis account, yet science shows the opposite - that the sun is a star and not at all like the moon, and that all those existed literally billions of years before land plants (different order).
There are plenty of other things in either Genesis story that show it's not literal, that are cues to remind us to take it figuratively, like the description of the earth starting out with all ocean and no land - that was never the case, the earth started out with no ocean and all land, the oceans formed over millions of years of rain as the earth cooled, etc.
Does that make things more clear?
Papias
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It's only a contradiction if you believe Genesis was written to deliver scientific truths rather than theological ones.Nah, I doubt that the inspired author would contradict himself.
I wonder if you think 2 Samuel 7:16 contradicts 1 Chronicles 17:14, or if the two passages are simply delivering different theological truths.
BTW, the difference in writing style between Gen 1 and 2 suggests the chapters were written by two different authors.
See? Gen 2 gives a different timeline than Gen 1 -- every bird and beast is formed after Adam... after God decided to make a helper for him. They're two different stories. You've added to the Bible with the bolded passage, by the way.
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Not really. The first birds actually look more like small meat-eating dinosaurs than modern birds. Compare the dinosaur Compsognathus (left) to the earliest bird Archaeopteryx (middle) and a chicken (right):
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ivebeenshown
Expert invisible poster and thread killer
If two time lines describe the same events but with a different order of events, they are contradictory. This is a basic concept in the court of law.
Polly was a bird, who I bought. (The LORD created Adam, who was a human.)
And I bought a cage for Polly. (And the LORD had planted the garden of Eden.)
And I put Polly in the cage. (And the LORD placed Adam in the garden of Eden.)
And I bought food for Polly. (And the LORD had formed beasts from the earth.)
And Polly didn't like the food. (And the LORD brought them to Adam to find a suitable helper, but a suitable helper was not found.)
I would assume that the narrator of this story about Polly the bird had already bought the cage and the food before obtaining Polly... but I only assume this because I was first read the other account of the story:
I bought a cage for a bird.
I bought food for a bird.
I bought a bird and named it Polly.
I put Polly in the cage I had bought.
I gave Polly a choice of food.
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The timelines may be contradictory -- as they certainly are in Genesis 1 and 2 -- but that doesn't mean the message is. Like I said to jeffweeder, read 2 Samuel 7:16 and 1 Chronicles 17:14 and tell me whether you think they are contradictory. Or try 2 Kings 24:8 and 2 Chronicles 36:9.If two time lines describe the same events but with a different order of events, they are contradictory. This is a basic concept in the court of law.
The problem is that you cannot make the two stories jive because the second story (Gen 2) explicitly states that God created the animals only AFTER He created Adam. The story in Gen 2 doesn't make sense if God created the animals first and then said "I'm going to make a helper for Adam". In your analogy, that would be like first buying Polly some bird food and then saying "I'm going to buy Polly some bird food." It makes no sense. Genesis 2 obviously tells us that God made "every" beast and bird after He created Adam. You have to add to text to make it say otherwise.
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