DrStupid_Ben
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From your study, what convinces you that 2300days is 1day=1year?
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From your study, what convinces you that 2300days is 1day=1year?I have been studying this issue. I have the daniel Revelation Study committee book. Man they are a tough read, long, boring and confusing. What I am convinced of so far is that the 2300 days is to be interpreted and 1 day = 1 year. What I am not convinced of is that the event that ended the 2300 day was Christ entering the most holy place and commencing the Investigative judgement. The passage in Daniel seems to favor the ideas of restoration not sanitizing the most holy place
From your study, what convinces you that 2300days is 1day=1year?
I have been studying this issue. I have the daniel Revelation Study committee book. Man they are a tough read, long, boring and confusing. What I am convinced of so far is that the 2300 days is to be interpreted and 1 day = 1 year. What I am not convinced of is that the event that ended the 2300 day was Christ entering the most holy place and commencing the Investigative judgement. The passage in Daniel seems to favor the ideas of restoration not sanitizing the most holy place
something might have happened, or might not... how would we really know.... the day for a year concept is not consistently applied.... so the whole IJ belief is flawed in my opinion....I would like to have someone here tell me what they think happened in 1844 instead of the IG. I dont believe in the IG either but if one accepts the day for the year concerning the prophecy something commenced at that time. Ive read the entire thread and my question is to those who dont believe the doctrine of the IG, but do believe the event culminated in 1844.
Michael
something might have happened, or might not... how would we really know.... the day for a year concept is not consistently applied.... so the whole IJ belief is flawed in my opinion....
How does the old testament completion address the day of atonement( the cleansing of the sanctuary). I can see the fulfillment of the sacraficial service since Christ became the Lamb slain, but what act of Christ fulfilles the cleansing and blotting out of recorded sin. and what or who was the scapegoat which all the sins are placed on and sent out of the camp.
Actually as many have pointed out our IJ view is a chain of events and a great many of them don't work, in other words the chain has multiple breaks and it can't have those breaks to end up with our 1844 concept.I have been studying this issue. I have the daniel Revelation Study committee book. Man they are a tough read, long, boring and confusing. What I am convinced of so far is that the 2300 days is to be interpreted and 1 day = 1 year. What I am not convinced of is that the event that ended the 2300 day was Christ entering the most holy place and commencing the Investigative judgement. The passage in Daniel seems to favor the ideas of restoration not sanitizing the most holy place
Is the Seventy Sevens "cut off" from the 2300
One of the key points that will be brought out in most lesson studies this coming week is summed up in the following from Kenneth Harts notes:
9. Notice that the word used in Daniel 9:24 is translated cut off, determined, decreed, etc. The basic Hebrew word means to cut off. Cut off from what? The only plausible explanation is that this 490-year period is cut off from the 2300-year prophecy given in Daniel 8:14. If this is not the case then we have no identifiable points to which we can attach the 2300 day-year prophecy.
Dan 9:24
24 "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy. (NIV)
Strongs number and Definition 2852 chathak (khaw-thak'); a primitive root; properly, to cut off, i.e. (figuratively) to decree: KJV-- determine.
I dont know of any translation that actually translates the word as cut off. The particular word 2852 chathak is only used here in Daniel 9:24. It appears only wishful thinking that leads to the idea of meaning cut off from the 2300 evening and morning prophecy. As that prophecy did not really have any need for a starting date since it was dated by the desecration of the temple. Only if you assume that you cannot see this temple, i.e. that it is in heaven would you need a starting date.
Dan 8:13-14
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, "How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled-- the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?"
14 He said to me, "It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated." (NIV)
Here is how C. Mervyn Maxwell in his book the Magnificent Disappointment explains why you should take the70 sevens from the 2,300 days:
This is the decree that was to start the seventy weeks. And inasmuch as Gabriels reference to the decree was intended to help Daniel and us understand the 2,300 days, we know that the 2,300 days also began in 457 B.C. (page 42)
Since in both Dan. 2, 7 and 8 Daniel gives wide ranging prophecies which apparently run from the time of Babylon to the time of the Advent of Christ or the second coming of Christ depending on your view. It is hard to say that Daniel 9 is restricted to the 2300 evenings and mornings, that is, that it is an elaboration on the 2300 days. Clearly that was not what Daniel was concerned with at the start of the chapter or with his prayer as he specifically refers to the 70 year prophecy of Jeremiah. If this was written in around the 500's B.C. time period there was no temple. To assume that the decree to rebuild the temple marks the beginning of the time period where the Temple is desecrated makes no sense at all. Yet this is what our traditional understanding has said. -457 + 2300 = 1843 + the year zero = 1844
So for the 2300 days to stand for the time of the desecration of the temple, the temple has to be desecrated from before its construction. If the sanctuary is not the one which Daniel was expecting, i.e. the rebuilt sanctuary of the decree, then the Adventist view has to have the sanctuary in heaven be trampled and desecrated by the little horn from the time of the decree to rebuild the earthly temple. In which case even before Christ came the heavenly sanctuary would have been desecrated. So in Adventist terminology from 4 centuries before any knew of the Messiah's work of intercession His work of intercession was being desecrated.
As Bill OReilly would say, tell me where I am wrong?
FYI i am no longer convinced of this. I am convinced nothing happened in 1844there are only a few options
option 1 date of book
a. 2nd century - if you take Daniel written in the 2nd century, bc. the you religate to a piece of propaganda literature or the Maccabean Wars.
b. 6th century - if you take Daniel written in the 6th century then you must take it as reads and there fore inspired because the visions are predicting the rise and fall of empires before they happen. how do you explain that except by divine revelation.
option 2.
a. 1 day = 1 day - if 1 day = 1 day then find the start of the 2300 day count off the 2300 day find corresponding event. you only have 3 options.
b. 1 day = 1 year if 1 day = 1year then find the start of the 2300 day count off the 2300 day find corresponding event. you only have 3 options
c. 1 day = 1000 years - 1 day = 1000 years then find the start of the 2300 years count off the 2300 years find corresponding event. you only have 3 options. by the way if this is the option then sit down we are going to be here a while.
option 3 start of prophecy
a. 535 b.c - exiles return to jerselaum. 70 year according jeremiah the release from captivity 605-535
b. 517/16 b.c - temple rebuilt 70 year prophecy applies here too 587/86-517/16
c. 457 b.c. - political power restored completely autonomous rule. a stand alone date with no corresponding 70 years date.
option 4
a. d=d
1. 535 + 6.5 yeas
2. 517/16 + 6.5 yeas
3. 457 + 6.5 years
b d=y
WHAT HAPPENED ON THESE DATES.
1. 535 + 2300 years = 1766
2. 517/516 + 2300 years =1784
3. 457 + 2300 years =1844
WHAT HAPPENED ON THESE DATES
C. D=1000 YEARS= YOU CAN FIGURE THIS ONE OUT YOUR SELF.
the only thing i can figure out is that somethng happened in 1844
Can you give us concrete examples?the day for a year concept is not consistently applied
The Hebrew word "chathak" means "to divide, determine" not "cut off". In the LXX they used the word "krino" meaning "to judge, decide." In this case then, the best translation of the word is "determine."Notice that the word used in Daniel 9:24 is translated “cut off”, “determined”, “decreed”, etc. The basic Hebrew word means “to cut off”. Cut off from what?
Unfortunately, there is no concrete evidence for this option. It is far more likely (based on the evidence we do have; see http://www.666man.net/Dating_the_Book_of_Daniel_by_David_Conklin.html -- 84 different lines of evdience.) that the book was written during the time frame it portrays.a. 2nd century - if you take Daniel written in the 2nd century, bc. the you religate to a piece of propaganda literature or the Maccabean Wars.
If that was true then we'd have to ask why did God give a prophecy that points to that date if nothing happened? It isn't logical or reasonable.FYI i am no longer convinced of this. I am convinced nothing happened in 1844
sure I could, however given the fact that you believe as you do, and I am not here to dissuade you from that believe, the point would be what?Can you give us concrete examples?
Compare the visions of Daniel 2, 7, 8 and 9 and 10 to 12I have been studying this issue. I have the daniel Revelation Study committee book. Man they are a tough read, long, boring and confusing. What I am convinced of so far is that the 2300 days is to be interpreted and 1 day = 1 year. What I am not convinced of is that the event that ended the 2300 day was Christ entering the most holy place and commencing the Investigative judgement. The passage in Daniel seems to favor the ideas of restoration not sanitizing the most holy place
Well since the event happened in heaven of course nothing happened on earth in 1844.FYI i am no longer convinced of this. I am convinced nothing happened in 1844
welcome... you can fellowship anywhere on the forum you wish, I guess the question that needs to be answered is what kind of fellowship are you seeking? Here in this sub forum we kind of bounce around thoughts and ideas about any and everything, nothing is off limits, so that may or may not be something you want to do right now.... you are more than welcome to share and interact with us, I am just kinda letting you know what to expect....good morning everyone! I am a newbie to this site and is just trying to find my way around. If i have entered the wrong thread let me know. I am have been a backslider for many, many years and is on my way back to the church and was just looking for fellowship amongst members of the sda church. I am still refreshing my teaching on the church and Ellen G White again, as it has been 20 yrs since i have been an active member.If this is not the thread, pls let me know and direct me to one that i may fellowship. thanks.
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