$15 dollars an hour for the minimum wage?

Angeldove97 · Dec 24, 2013

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MrLuther · Dec 24, 2013

Angeldove97 said:
Please be aware that this thread has gone through a clean up where posts have been deleted. A reminder of the rules-

Start threads that are relevant to that forum's stated purpose; submit replies that are relevant to the topic of discussion. Off Topic posts will be moved or removed.

Please don't bother posting off-topic posts that do not add to the discussion.

Thank you kindly

Why were the posts advocating murder not removed?

Saleena · Dec 24, 2013

Oh you mean the metaphorical post about how the poor will rise up and demand legislation and those who have been abusing them for so long will get the axe, aka lose their job?

Oh noes I said get the axe, that must mean I am an axe murderer!

Saleena · Dec 24, 2013

I think that something is needed, maybe not 15 dollars an hour, but when the cost of living goes up, the wages need to be balanced as well.

MrLuther · Dec 24, 2013

Saleena said:
Oh you mean the metaphorical post about how the poor will rise up and demand legislation and those who have been abusing them for so long will get the axe, aka lose their job?

Oh noes I said get the axe, that must mean I am an axe murderer!

Yeah, that's not what you said

Saleena said:
Better do something soon, the poor are getting restless. *sharpens her guillotine* Somehow I feel heads will roll.

Nice try though.

Cactus Jack · Dec 25, 2013

I don't feel like reading all 5 pages of responses.
Suffice it to say if they want $15/hr. then I suggest they go to school and learn a trade. The kids are doing a minimum wage job because they have low skills, low moral, low everything. Good pay comes with learning to respect your boss, learning a new trade, and learning to respect yourself. Just the way it is.

[serious] · Dec 25, 2013

Cactus Jack said:
I don't feel like reading all 5 pages of responses.
Suffice it to say if they want $15/hr. then I suggest they go to school and learn a trade. The kids are doing a minimum wage job because they have low skills, low moral, low everything. Good pay comes with learning to respect your boss, learning a new trade, and learning to respect yourself. Just the way it is.

I think $15 is probably overshooting what is reasonable for a nation wide minimum wage (some areas it is appropriate for, but not all) I think we should bring it up to $10 or $10.25 and index it to either inflation or cost of living (preferably cost of living).

Yekcidmij · Dec 26, 2013

[serious];64735397 said:
I think $15 is probably overshooting what is reasonable for a nation wide minimum wage (some areas it is appropriate for, but not all) I think we should bring it up to $10 or $10.25 and index it to either inflation or cost of living (preferably cost of living).

(1) What do you base your numbers on? Why is $15 too much, $7.25 too little, and $10-$10.25 just right?

(2) How do you know this is a feasible increase for every business in the US?

KitKatMatt · Dec 26, 2013

Cactus Jack said:
I don't feel like reading all 5 pages of responses.
Suffice it to say if they want $15/hr. then I suggest they go to school and learn a trade. The kids are doing a minimum wage job because they have low skills, low moral, low everything. Good pay comes with learning to respect your boss, learning a new trade, and learning to respect yourself. Just the way it is.

I graduated high school with good grades, went to college, graduated with a degree in a field that is booming, got two smaller degrees in a field that is very busy, have been out of college for three years and still am working a minimum wage job.

No one is hiring entry level in what I am certified in (AutoCAD), and I'd have to move very far out of state to be hired into a massive corporation to do what I have my smaller degrees in (medical transcription) and be paid... minimum wage to do that one.

I've worked three minimum wage jobs over the years and have done my jobs very well. I have done excellent work even though my anxiety and panic disorder, social phobias, and OCD-powered obsessive thoughts were trying to hold me back. However, minimum wage jobs are go-nowhere jobs, so no matter how well I do my work, I will never be promoted to a higher wage.

And in the mean time, my degrees are forever collecting dust. My skills would be collecting dust if I didn't work them out every single day- I work on AutoCAD constantly to keep sharp, I hone my typing and recording skills every day. I am constantly on the job hunt, trying to find a position to pounce on so I can do what I'm really talented and driven to do.

So tell me again that it's because I have low skills, low morals, and low everything that I don't have a higher paying job.

[serious] · Dec 26, 2013

Yekcidmij said:
(1) What do you base your numbers on? Why is $15 too much, $7.25 too little, and $10-$10.25 just right?

(2) How do you know this is a feasible increase for every business in the US?

$10 is what it would be if inflation adjusted from the 60s. I think we should get it put back where it was in real dollars with build in COLA increases, then discuss whether we want an actual increase in the minimum wage separately from the fixing of the issue of inflation devaluing the wage.

As far as the feasibility, that's a terrible argument with a terrible history. If a business can't afford to pay a fair days wage for a fair day's work, there are more profound problems than payroll. If there is something that is legitimately underpriced to the point that it can't support the workers making it, then the market needs to be allowed to correct that and the price of that particular product needs to go up.

I also mentioned the historical aspect. A similar argument was made regarding slavery. The theory went that free labor was all that allowed the cotton industry to work. Now, the minimum wage issue is of course no where near that dramatic, but the root of the argument is the same. if it doesn't work in one, it must be dismissed in the other.

Gnarwhal · Dec 26, 2013

kermit said:
While I'm not sure that $15/hr makes sense for a national minimum wage I find the objections to a living wage odd. Nearly all working people receive enough money to live. For many, part of that money comes from taxpayers. So if a person need, for argument sake. $10/hr to live in an area and the minimum wage is $7.25 that means that they recieve $2.75/hr from taxpayers. The question then becomes why are taxpayers subsidizing businesses in this way?

The right had a huge problem with TARP and the auto bailout, but seems perfectly fine with tremendous and ongoing payroll subsidies going to businesses that employee minimimum wage earners, some of which are highly profitable.

I basically agree. I mean $15/hour seems to make more sense in more expensive urban areas such as LA, NY or SF but if you're living in the midwest or deep south, for example, many of those areas are relatively low cost of living so $15/hour may be a bit extraneous. No doubt it would be nice, maybe even luxurious, but it could also put a strain on the local economies to maintain that kind of wage.

Jeffwhosoever · Dec 27, 2013

KitKatMatt said:
I graduated high school with good grades, went to college, graduated with a degree in a field that is booming, got two smaller degrees in a field that is very busy, have been out of college for three years and still am working a minimum wage job.

No one is hiring entry level in what I am certified in (AutoCAD), and I'd have to move very far out of state to be hired into a massive corporation to do what I have my smaller degrees in (medical transcription) and be paid... minimum wage to do that one.

I've worked three minimum wage jobs over the years and have done my jobs very well. I have done excellent work even though my anxiety and panic disorder, social phobias, and OCD-powered obsessive thoughts were trying to hold me back. However, minimum wage jobs are go-nowhere jobs, so no matter how well I do my work, I will never be promoted to a higher wage.

And in the mean time, my degrees are forever collecting dust. My skills would be collecting dust if I didn't work them out every single day- I work on AutoCAD constantly to keep sharp, I hone my typing and recording skills every day. I am constantly on the job hunt, trying to find a position to pounce on so I can do what I'm really talented and driven to do.

So tell me again that it's because I have low skills, low morals, and low everything that I don't have a higher paying job.

What is primary degree? AutoCAD is pretty old software. I don't know of anyone who uses it these days.

Deacon001 · Dec 27, 2013

kermit said:
The choice is either you pay a bit more for a product or service (much less than you'd probably expect) or you pay it in taxes. Personally, I prefer to pay slightly more for products or services because that gives me a choice.

Then you get to pay extra in products, services, AND taxes. What do you think, the government is going to give you a break on your taxes because they're not paying out as much in welfare? Good luck with that one.

Billnew · Dec 27, 2013

I'm not opposed to a slow minimum wage increase, but it solves nothing.

If you are worth nothing more then minimum wage, you need to do something to improve yourself, not expect government to swallow up more jobs into the minimum wage abyss.

No jobs? jobs in Dayton, OH | Jobs2Careers
According to this site; Maintenance Jobs (3282), RN (1068), Administrative Assistant (503)
If you can't find work in your area, look somewhere else, if you can't find a good paying job then make yourself qualify for it.

If $15 an hour minimum is good, why not raise it to 20? Why not 30? If nothing changes with 15, what would 20 do?
Every forced increase will affect everything.
It is much better to get no value employees to become more valuble.

Because in the job world, an employee is only as good as his value to the company. Its not an employee with 6 kids, its a human machine producing a product that will bring money to the company. It could be a single employee with no dependants or a married employee with 10 kids, a wife and parents that can't work, it doesn't matter to the company. The employment slot pays "X" amount of dollars, if you don't want to work for that, then there is 20-30 other people that would do it.

Living wage is focused on the family not the company. Only Government with all the power of taxation and borrowing, can focus on the family behind the employee.

Every cost increase will be adjusted somewhere, higher costs, fewer employees, less benefits, (and fewer hours to avoid penalties of other programs when bene's are cut.)

My daughters get a 10 cent increase in pay Jan 1, Ohio adjusts for cost of living in minimum wage. Do I tell them to protest and write their elected officials to get a bigger pay increase? No, I tell them to go to college so they can get a better job.

[serious] · Dec 27, 2013

Billnew said:
I'm not opposed to a slow minimum wage increase, but it solves nothing.

If you are worth nothing more then minimum wage, you need to do something to improve yourself, not expect government to swallow up more jobs into the minimum wage abyss.

No jobs? jobs in Dayton, OH | Jobs2Careers
According to this site; Maintenance Jobs (3282), RN (1068), Administrative Assistant (503)
If you can't find work in your area, look somewhere else, if you can't find a good paying job then make yourself qualify for it.

If $15 an hour minimum is good, why not raise it to 20? Why not 30? If nothing changes with 15, what would 20 do?
Every forced increase will affect everything.
It is much better to get no value employees to become more valuble.

Because in the job world, an employee is only as good as his value to the company. Its not an employee with 6 kids, its a human machine producing a product that will bring money to the company. It could be a single employee with no dependants or a married employee with 10 kids, a wife and parents that can't work, it doesn't matter to the company. The employment slot pays "X" amount of dollars, if you don't want to work for that, then there is 20-30 other people that would do it.

Living wage is focused on the family not the company. Only Government with all the power of taxation and borrowing, can focus on the family behind the employee.

Every cost increase will be adjusted somewhere, higher costs, fewer employees, less benefits, (and fewer hours to avoid penalties of other programs when bene's are cut.)

My daughters get a 10 cent increase in pay Jan 1, Ohio adjusts for cost of living in minimum wage. Do I tell them to protest and write their elected officials to get a bigger pay increase? No, I tell them to go to college so they can get a better job.

I had a bachelors and several certifications last time I had to take a minimum wage job. They aren't just people who aren't qualified for anything better.

KitKatMatt · Dec 27, 2013

Billnew said:
No, I tell them to go to college so they can get a better job.

Yeah, because that always works.

College degrees don't mean crap anymore. I know plenty of people who have degrees in relevant fields who are still stuck in minimum wage jobs.

I'm one of them. My friends are two more of them.

Belk · Dec 27, 2013

Jeffwhosoever said:
What is primary degree? AutoCAD is pretty old software. I don't know of anyone who uses it these days.

I know that a lot of government agencies use it and it's supporting products.

KitKatMatt · Dec 27, 2013

Jeffwhosoever said:
What is primary degree? AutoCAD is pretty old software. I don't know of anyone who uses it these days.

Primary is AutoCAD. I live along the coast of Texas where there are many oil refineries and other types of plants that are constantly undergoing renovations, repairs, and additions. AutoCAD employees are in huge demand, except now they no longer want to hire entry level employees. All of them want 5 years experience, and I don't know where I can get experience if I can't get a job in the field.

AutoCAD is also big around Austin, so I might have luck there since I'm planning to move to the general area next year.

AutoCAD has been around for a while software-wise, but the software isn't old. It's updated every few years just like anything else (and costs about 8k for a limited time license that you have to keep renewing *sarcastic cheering*). I'm also skilled in hand-drafting so I can do work in the field where I have no computer available.

keith99 · Dec 27, 2013

Billnew said:
I'm not opposed to a slow minimum wage increase, but it solves nothing.

If you are worth nothing more then minimum wage, you need to do something to improve yourself, not expect government to swallow up more jobs into the minimum wage abyss.

No jobs? jobs in Dayton, OH | Jobs2Careers
According to this site; Maintenance Jobs (3282), RN (1068), Administrative Assistant (503)
If you can't find work in your area, look somewhere else, if you can't find a good paying job then make yourself qualify for it.

If $15 an hour minimum is good, why not raise it to 20? Why not 30? If nothing changes with 15, what would 20 do?
Every forced increase will affect everything.
It is much better to get no value employees to become more valuble.

Because in the job world, an employee is only as good as his value to the company. Its not an employee with 6 kids, its a human machine producing a product that will bring money to the company. It could be a single employee with no dependants or a married employee with 10 kids, a wife and parents that can't work, it doesn't matter to the company. The employment slot pays "X" amount of dollars, if you don't want to work for that, then there is 20-30 other people that would do it.

Living wage is focused on the family not the company. Only Government with all the power of taxation and borrowing, can focus on the family behind the employee.

Every cost increase will be adjusted somewhere, higher costs, fewer employees, less benefits, (and fewer hours to avoid penalties of other programs when bene's are cut.)

My daughters get a 10 cent increase in pay Jan 1, Ohio adjusts for cost of living in minimum wage. Do I tell them to protest and write their elected officials to get a bigger pay increase? No, I tell them to go to college so they can get a better job.

One point you are missing is that people are replaceable by machines.

If I were a landscape contractor and I have a big job where I am putting in a sprinkler system (which means trenching for all the pipe) and several bushes and a couple of trees I have 2 places where I can replace a lot of manpower with machine power, digging the trenches and the holes for the trees and bushes.

Kicking minimum wage up from $10 to $15 is apt to kick over the best choice to be renting a machine more often. (The bigger the job the more sense a trencher makes).

The higher the minimum wage the more jobs where machine replacing man makes sense from a business standpoint. But the really nasty thing is there is eventually a tipping point, a point where buying a trencher makes more sense than renting. At that point the purchase is a sunk cost and except for the smallest of jobs (e.g where transporting and unloading the trencher is almost as much work as digging that one 10 foot trench) it machine replaces man every job.

BUT it does not end there. Installing a sprinkler system has some skilled work and a lot of semi skilled work. If a contractor has an unskilled trench digger that guy will get used to help lay the pipe. He will get a change to learn the semi-skilled part of the job. If he does it well he can move up to the more skilled parts. Sooner or later there will be some repair or small installation job where he gets a chance to be worth more to his employer.

BUT if he was never there as a trench digger because a machine was doing it because minimum wage was too high he never gets the start.

Satt · Dec 27, 2013

Instead of raising wages...how about we make the money we already make worth more. That's more of an issue IMHO.

$15 dollars an hour for the minimum wage?

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