10 Commandments included in the moral law of God - except for last 9??

BobRyan · Dec 25, 2016

Anyone who says the 10 Commandments are in the moral law of God - except for the last 9 is saying total rubbish and I think we would all agree. It would not be TEN ... it would be ONE.

Ten Commandments in the moral law of God except for last THREE - likewise is rubbish - it would not be TEN it would be 7.

jerry kelso said:
bobryan,

1. I believe that the moral laws of the Ten Commandments are in the New Covenant and are just as valid today just as much as they were in the age of the Mosaic law which was the Old covenant

Good news!

So then you accept - rather than reject - the teaching of Christ in Mark 7:6-13?

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

It based on "He who said"

Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10

BobRyan · Dec 25, 2016

ALL Ten --

jerry kelso said:
bobryan,
We both agree they are valid.
We also believe that they mean they mean what they say. We are not to kill as in murder, not to steal, bear false witness, not to take the Lord's name in vain, remember the sabbath day to keep I think holy, etc.
Under the law of Moses a specific judgement was attached. The commandment was mandatory and if broken the judgment was to be given. For breaking the sabbath you could be killed

You are conflating the civil laws and penalties under the theocracy in the OT - with the moral law of God "AS IF" to end the theocracy is to make it ok today to "take God's name in vain" -- which as we both know --- is utter nonsense.

Even your own pro-Sunday scholars point out this Bible detail instead of falling into that dead-end idea.

jerry kelso said:
3. Conflating civil laws and penalties? That is downright stupid when they are in direct connection to the commandment right then and there.

You are conflating the civil laws and penalties under the theocracy in the OT - with the moral law of God "AS IF" to end the theocracy is to make it ok today to "take God's name in vain" -- which as we both know --- is utter nonsense.

As even your own pro-Sunday scholars admit. In other words even those who reject the Bible-Sabbath admit you are in error on that flawed conflation. You seem to be hard put to come up with a Bible-Sabbath-attacking POV that does not attack your own Sunday-keeping group where they accept key Bible details you turn a blind-eye to!!

notice that even they know enough Bible to not fall on their sword over the myth that civil and moral law are the exact same thing in either OT or NT.

as we will soon see an example of here -

See them affirm that all TEN are in the moral law of God --

BobRyan said:
Civil law - vs - moral law -- admitted to by pro-Sunday groups not just the Bible and pro-Bible-Sabbath groups.
link to - Westminster Confession of Faith Section 19

"Westminster Confession of Faith"

Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God
I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;l and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament

IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin: and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof: although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works. So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it; the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.

And also here

BobRyan said:
Civil law - vs - moral law -- admitted to by pro-Sunday groups not just the Bible and pro-Bible-Sabbath groups.

The Baptist Confession of Faith - section 19 almost identical to the Westminster section 19 quoted above.

Notice how they both fit that 7 point summary already posted on page 1?

Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19

Section 19:

C.H. Spurgeon's edition of the "Baptist Confession of Faith"
-- CH Spurgeon

The Perpetuity of the Law of God

Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" .

Section 19
. The Law of God

God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it __________________

BobRyan · Dec 26, 2016

The Bible never mentions the term "the NINE Commandments" or the "THREE commandments" it is always the "TEN Commandments" when numbered ... so those that oppose them have to use the term - and so some will say "I accept the moral law of God includes the TEN Commandments except for this or that"

EastCoastRemnant · Dec 27, 2016

BobRyan said:
The Bible never mentions the term "the NINE Commandments" or the "THREE commandments" it is always the "TEN Commandments" when numbered ... so those that oppose them have to use the term - and so some will say "I accept the moral law of God includes the TEN Commandments except for this or that"

It's blatent disregard for God's Word... and won't be held unaccounted for. Ignorance is one thing but willfully promoting it by the wresting of scripture is greivous to God as it leads others into sin.

EastCoastRemnant · Dec 27, 2016

BobRyan said:
Even your own pro-Sunday scholars point out this Bible detail instead of falling into that dead-end idea.

Problem is Bob, they don't even care what the fathers of their denominations thought... they are "enlightened" by the angel of light.

BobRyan · Dec 27, 2016

you would think that knowing the Bible mentions them as the "TEN Commandments" -- then imagining they are really just "the THREE commandments" or just the "NINE" would be to them a problem with Mark 7:6-13.

They would be stressed a bit as to how to get around Mark 7.

And for those who say "no keep them as TEN - just ignore them they are gone" well then "how to make it clear that you should not take God's name in vain" other than "your feelings" as your scripture.

Former Adventist · Feb 24, 2017

The problem with the Adventist view of the "law of God" is that they will read "law of God" as being the ten commandments only, while the other commandments contained in the torah they will call the "ceremonial law" that was done away with by the sacrifice of Christ. However, this understanding of a dichotomy between the ten commandments and the other commandments in the torah is never made in scripture. The "law of Moses" is the same as the "law of the Lord" and the "law of God". What Moses wrote in the torah was/is considered the "law of God" by the biblical personages, period. It is the "commandment of God" as your own quote from Jesus in Mark 7 demonstrates (verses 8-10) which has Him quoting the torah of Moses both from the ten commandments (Honor your father and mother) and from Exodus 21:17 (And he who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death). Jesus makes no distinction between them as He calls both "the commandment of God" twice (verses 8 & 9). It is worth noting also that Jesus spoke of the "commandment of God" twice and then said "For Moses said..." indicating that it was what Moses said that is the "commandment of God". This is clearly at odds with the Adventist way of speaking of "the commandments of God". Adventists never mingle the ten commandments with the non-ten commandments with the moniker "the commandments of God". And they certainly will never speak of "the commandments of God" to a non-Adventist with the words "For Moses said..." This should cause Adventists to take pause. If their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ speaks of the "commandment of God" in this way as "For Moses said...", then why don't they? The truth is Seventh-day Adventism has a foreign concept of the "law of God" than that held by those spoken of in scripture.

Former Adventist · Feb 27, 2017

I have been kindly informed that this is not the place for debate. Please disregard my postings. Blessings to all

10 Commandments included in the moral law of God - except for last 9??

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