1 Timothy 4:1-3

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Feb 29, 2004

Also Symes the Catholic church forbidding their priests (you could at least use the right title) to marry does not fit these verses as it is clear from the context that this would be doctrines taught to the whole of the people listening and not just the priests or ministers.

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Feb 29, 2004

ChristFollowers said:
So everything God created is good? Can I eat humans if I receive them with thanksgiving? A human is created by God, right?

You are being silly and you know it. We have return to the Noachide covenant as the Mosaic covenant has been fulfilled. We are under the restrictions that Noah was given. You also know that the words used exclude humans as they have never been considered food. Your hyperbole really doesn't add to the discussion and proves no point at all.

Symes · Feb 29, 2004

Also Symes the Catholic church forbidding their priests (you could at least use the right title) to marry does not fit these verses as it is clear from the context that this would be doctrines taught to the whole of the people listening and not just the priests or ministers.

flesh99

Why would you come to such a conclusion?

Do you have some inside information that no one else knows about?

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Feb 29, 2004

The word doctrine in Greek:

didaskalia
1) teaching, instruction

2) teaching
a) that which is taught, doctrine
b) teachings, precepts

This more than implies it is a teaching for everyone, not just for priests. It in no way implies that it would be for the leaders of the church. Paul was not married and said that he wished every man could be like him. The Catholic church merely thinks their priests should be like Paul and that cannot be a bad thing. I am not jumping to conclusions as all, I am stating what is the accepted translation of that passage. The words used in way imply that it will be for the leadership of the church only, in fact they imply that it will be taught as doctrine in the church in question. This rules out the Catholic church as they hold marriage very sacred, moreso than any other church, they by no means teach a doctrine of forbidding to marry as mentioned in this passage.

deu58 · Feb 29, 2004

Symes said:
You are pulling my leg, you would have to be geeing me up to make such a statement. The SDA Church came into place in 1863. So it is ruled out immediately.

hi symes

I do not see in 1tim where the age of the church has to do with anything.

yours in Christ
deu58

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Feb 29, 2004

deu58: look at the liner notes, surely it says "The following verses do not apply to churches formed in the 1800's" It has to be there, Symes is 100% Bible remember?

deu58 · Feb 29, 2004

hi symes

The only one with inside information is you, and your inside information is false, All of the SDA anti catholic doctrine has it's roots in the Spirit of Prophecy,

I saw the nominal church and nominal Adventists, like Judas, would betray us to the Catholics to obtain their influence to come against the truth. The saints then will be an obscure people, little known to the Catholics; but the churches and nominal Adventists who know of our faith and customs (for they hated us on account of the Sabbath, for they could not refute it) will betray the saints and report them to the Catholics as those who disregard the institutions of the people; that is, that they keep the Sabbath and disregard Sunday.

-2- {SpM 1.5}
Then the Catholics bid the Protestants to go forward, and issue a decree that all who will not observe the first day of the week, instead of the seventh day, shall be slain. And the Catholics, whose numbers are large, will stand by the Protestants. The Catholics will give their power to the image of the beast. And the Protestants will work as their mother worked before them to destroy the saints.

yours in Christ
deu58

deu58 · Feb 29, 2004

hello Symes

What "appetite" is being talked about here? It would have to be food that has been banned by God. Read the whole passage again and you will see that what EGW has said and not what you have thought she said.

Click to expand...

No symes, Here is some more of the same letter, She is talking about ALL MEATS, Read the whole letter symes and look at the title of the letter "Temperance in Diet" she is condemning ALL MEATS!

Daniel 11:37 "Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all."

About the only part of this verse that EGW does not fulfill is she is not a man!

The teachings of your church fit what is being said by Paul much closer than The Catholics, It should be remembered that Ellen White also taught that meat increased sexual desire. She was very concerned about the sex lives of her followers and had a few things to say about that to!

Daniel 11:37 .......nor the desire of women,

Temperance in Diet.

Sunnyside, Cooranbong, N. S. W., Aug. 30.

Dear Brother and Sister:--

. . . . .
You have the light which the Lord has given our people and kept before them for many years. The Lord does not say Yea and Nay to his people, but Yes and Amen. I will send you the testimonies given to others upon the subject of health reform. This is a large subject. I am now revising the book entitled. Christian Temperance." {SpM 38.1}
I was somewhat surprised at your argument as to why a meat-eating diet kept you in strength, for if you put yourself out of the question, your own reason will teach you that a meat diet is not of such advantage as you suppose.

But when the selfishness of taking lives of animals to gratify a perverted appetite was presented to me by a Catholic woman, kneeling at my feet, I felt ashamed and distressed. I saw it in a new light, and I said, I will no longer patronize the butcher; I will not have the flesh of corpses on my table. {SpM 38.4}

I have felt urged by the Spirit of God to set before several the fact that their suffering and ill health were caused by a disregard of the light given them upon the health reform.I have shown them that their meat diet, which was supposed to be essential, was not necessary,

yours in Christ
deu58

Andre · Feb 29, 2004

Genesis 9
3 "Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.
4 "Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

This agrees with 1 Tim 4,

4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;

Alright Symes, if you prove to me that pork, and all other previously unclean meats have ceasesd to be moving things I'll stop eating pork.

While all food are clean and ok to be eaten, not all things we can eat will be healthy, beef fat, eggs yolks, hydrogenated vegetable fats, these are some things we should avoid, they are not healthy, but by the Mosaic law they were ok to eat, pork chops are leaner than any cut of beef, fish with no scales are low in saturated fats, some are rich in omega-3 fatty acids wich are very good for us, those things were not legal by the Mosaic Law, but they are healthier than the other stuff I mentioned thats ok by the Law.

This means that your argument of "God doesn't want us to eat things that are bad for us, therefore we must follow His food laws" is flawed because some things that are legal by Mosaic Law are worst for our health than most thing that were not ok by the Law.

Andre · Feb 29, 2004

ChristFollowers said:
So everything God created is good? Can I eat humans if I receive them with thanksgiving? A human is created by God, right?

Deu....In your opinion, does all Churchs match the church mentioned in 1 Tim 4:3 except Christianity? Just curious in knowing.....

We cannot eat humans because the killing of a human being would be murder, not the case with animals.

deu58 · Feb 29, 2004

Hi Andre

1ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth

I guess we have been talking about meats so much every body thinks this is another unclean foods thread, What symes is trying to prove is that the RCC is the church that commands people not to marry and to abstain from meats,

I have been posting that the SDA church fulfills these verses even more than the RCC and flesh has been providing other evidence that 1Tim is not the referring to the RCC

yours in Christ
deu58

Andre · Mar 1, 2004

deu58 said:
Hi Andre

1ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth

I guess we have been talking about meats so much every body thinks this is another unclean foods thread, What symes is trying to prove is that the RCC is the church that commands people not to marry and to abstain from meats,

I have been posting that the SDA church fulfills these verses even more than the RCC and flesh has been providing other evidence that 1Tim is not the referring to the RCC

yours in Christ
deu58

I agree with you, while the RCC does have some traditions that involve not eating meat at certain days, it does not forbid it's members from eating certain kinds of meats as dietary laws, it also doesn't forbid it's member from marriage, it does require a vote of celibacy from priests, but they are not forced to become priests, they know it involves not getting married before they get into it,if you think about it the RCC does not require them to be priests so it does not forbid anyone to marry, it's a personal choice.

Not the case with the SDA church wich teaches a doctrine that forbids it's members from eating certain foods and consider eating them a sin, it also recomends a vegetarian lifestyle as something that can bring you closser to God and strengthen your faith, wich seams to contradict this passage... "One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables." Rom 14:2.

deu58 · Mar 1, 2004

hello Andre

Not to mention this one

1co 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

yours in Christ
deu58

Symes · Mar 1, 2004

I guess we have been talking about meats so much every body thinks this is another unclean foods thread, What symes is trying to prove is that the RCC is the church that commands people not to marry and to abstain from meats,

I have been posting that the SDA church fulfills these verses even more than the RCC and flesh has been providing other evidence that 1Tim is not the referring to the RCC

yours in Christ
deu58

Coupled with what is said in Daniel 11:37 there is more than enough support to link these verses with then RCC.

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Mar 1, 2004

The problem is the verses in Daniel have nothing to do with these verses and your link is entirely conjecture. There is plenty of evidence to link the SDA to these verses and you have been shown all of it. You have also been shown that the doctrine would not just apply to the church leaders.

Andre · Mar 1, 2004

Daniel 11:37 is describing the anti-Christ, it can lead us to believe that he will be unmarried, some go as far as interpreting this as him being a homosexual. also some believe the phrase "desire of women" means that he will have no regard for what Jewish women desire, wich is to be the mother of the Messiah. I believe the main point of this verse s that he will have no respect to Judeo-Christian beliefs and will disregard the God of the Bible, nothing to do with 1 Tim 4, the Catholic church, nor the SDA church.

Daniel 11
36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

This is what Jesus described as the abomination of desolation, the anti-Christ will exalt himself above God, note that this passage reffers to him only, it does not reffer to a group of people nor a religion, therefore it has no conection to 1 Tim 4.

Symes · Mar 1, 2004

Andre

I believe the main point of this verse s that he will have no respect to Judeo-Christian beliefs and will disregard the God of the Bible, nothing to do with 1 Tim 4, the Catholic church, nor the SDA church.

You are getting close to the mark here. This verse is saying about the ant-christ. Yes I have to agree with you that it has nothing to do with the SDA Church.

deu58 · Mar 1, 2004

hello symes

Well considering you are sda what surprise you would have to agree the sda church is not the subject of the verses,

The point is symes every church has added to or taken away from the word of God to one degree or another in establishing their own doctrines,

If the the Catholic church is guilty then so are the rest of us, The things of Dan 11 and 1tim 4 are yet to come,

yours in Christ
deu58

Andre · Mar 1, 2004

Symes said:
Andre

You are getting close to the mark here. This verse is saying about the ant-christ. Yes I have to agree with you that it has nothing to do with the SDA Church.

It has nothing to do with any present religion Symes, there will be a world religion instituted by the anti-Christ that will bring false peace on earth, I'm pretty sure it isn't the RCC, nor the SDA church. It's something that will make Jews and Muslims happy for 3 and 1/2 years so we know that Jesus is not a part of it's doctrine.

I believe I will be far from here when that happens so I'm not really worried about it.

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Mar 1, 2004

Symes said:
Andre

You are getting close to the mark here. This verse is saying about the ant-christ. Yes I have to agree with you that it has nothing to do with the SDA Church.

Symes why do you noit respond to all the posts made? Can you not refute them so you ignore them?

1 Timothy 4:1-3

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