1 Timothy 4:1-3

Symes · Feb 27, 2004

flesh99

There are very few churches that teach abstaining just from certain meats and the SDA is one of those. It is obvious where you wanted to take this but it ins't happening now. Your church fits the bill at least as much as the church you wanted to attack.

Sorry but our Church does not fit this description. We do not forbid our ministers to marry as part of what these two texts indicate. If you would face the truth and stop trying to protect evil, you would understand what is being said.

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Feb 27, 2004

Well I have proven that the two are not linked, they are in fact refering to two seperate doctrines. And it says abstaining from certain meats, and then goes on to say that all things God created are good and nothing is to be refused. Your church teaches to abstain from certain meats, I think that qualifies, but, if you do not then can you tell us what this is refering to and in no uncertain terms please?

Symes · Feb 27, 2004

flesh99

Well I have proven that the two are not linked, they are in fact refering to two seperate doctrines. And it says abstaining from certain meats, and then goes on to say that all things God created are good and nothing is to be refused. Your church teaches to abstain from certain meats, I think that qualifies, but, if you do not then can you tell us what this is refering to and in no uncertain terms please?

Again you have not proved a thing. Just because you say something does not prove the Bible wrong. It will take more than your words to prove the Bible is wrong. The verse says again for your benefit.

"They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods,"

You can spin with "off breaks", "leg breaks", "googlies", "wronguns", "chinaman" or what ever type of spin you like but there is a word in there that says "AND"

That means a combination of what is before and what comes after. It does not mean one or the other. It means both. No more spin, just bowl a straight ball.

deu58 · Feb 27, 2004

hello Symes

I can start presenting evidence that your church actually fits the bill covering both aspects of the verse and surppases it. Do you want to go that route?

We are all guilty symes, each and every denomination to one degree or another has added their doctrines to the Bible,

yours in Christ
deu58

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Feb 27, 2004

The word is not there in the Greek Symes, I have shown this to you. The Greek clearly shows that it is an either/or situation because the word doctrines is plural. You have been shown what the Greek says and that is the original writing of the verse, so how can you say that it means both? You are the one denying what the scripture says and that is that the doctrines are plural, it is two doctrines and both of them are false and doctrines of demons. The word "and" does not exist in the Greek and you cannot get around that. I am looking at the most accurate method, going back to the Greek. You are the one adding to the text and trying to spin it to mean something it doesn't, which by the way you have not bothered to state so far. What is it you are getting at Symes, why are you so afraid to come right out and say it?

Also going back to the Greek, you church does fit the bill as they teach abstaining from certain foods. You really need to learn to study your Bible without the SDA haze you have over it. Your refusal to look at the original languages is quite frankly proving my point. You will not look at anything that disagrees with what you have been taught, and when presented with it you blow it off or simply refuse to respond. The Greek proves my point, and does so very nicely. By the way, in case you have forgotten I have asked you directly what the point you are trying to make is. Would you please respond?

Symes · Feb 27, 2004

flesh99

By the way, in case you have forgotten I have asked you directly what the point you are trying to make is. Would you please respond?

When you look at Daniel 11:37 you will get the drift.

We are all guilty symes, each and every denomination to one degree or another has added their doctrines to the Bible,

yours in Christ
deu58

Those that add to God's Word will receive what Revelation 22 has for them.

"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."

hello Symes

I can start presenting evidence that your church actually fits the bill covering both aspects of the verse and surppases it. Do you want to go that route?

I suppose you will find some one who has said something that supports your point of view. You seem to know more about the SDA Church than anybody else does.

deu58 · Feb 27, 2004

hello symes

Those that add to God's Word will receive what Revelation 22 has for them

Click to expand...

.

well then boy are you SDA's in trouble, You have added over 100,000 pages to the word of God!

yours in Christ
deu58

Symes · Feb 27, 2004

"Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all." (Daniel 11:37)

The "he" here "shall magnify himself above all"

When understood correctly this passage is linked to this study.

Symes · Feb 27, 2004

well then boy are you SDA's in trouble, You have added over 100,000 pages to the word of God!

yours in Christ
deu58

Never, that is wrong and you know it to be. We have not added one word to God's Word.

I just do not understand why anyone would say such a lie. There are demoninations that claim to add tradition to God's Word. We are not one of them. Suggest that you get your facts right before making such wild claims.

I know what you are getting at and know how anti EGW you are but please do not think we are adding her words to the Bible.

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Feb 27, 2004

Symes said:
flesh99

When you look at Daniel 11:37 you will get the drift.

I am not going on a wild goose chase Symes, just tell us what you mean, either that or stop responding to the thread. You are playing games here. I for one want to know what you are talking about, and in no undertain terms please.

Those that add to God's Word will receive what Revelation 22 has for them.

"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."

Actually Symes it is held by most scholars that the passage you reference only refers to the book of Revelation. The canon of scripture was nowhere near being complete at the time and in fact most of the NT had not even been written. Revelation is a book of prophecy, the whole Bible is not. This is again you using scriptures incorrectly. But lets play along with you point for a minute, if you are right then it seems the SDA church is in big trouble, have you looked at the Clear Word lately? There is a book that has added to scripture in a huge way! So what say you Symes?

I suppose you will find some one who has said something that supports your point of view. You seem to know more about the SDA Church than anybody else does.

Symes you have not responded. To me either, I have proved my point using the original Greek which you have ignored. How about it Symes is the Greek wrong and the English correct? It is obvious in the Greek that the two are not contained together as you would have them to be. Explain yourself in light of that fact. Also you have still not stated exactly what you are getting at? Are you scared to state what you call the truth Symes? I challenge you to state it, and without conjecture or allusions, just state it so even my 6 year old could understand.

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Feb 27, 2004

Symes said:
"Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all."(Daniel 11:37)

The "he" there "shall magnify himself above all"

When understood correctly this passage is linked to this study.

When understood in the false light of SDA doctrine then maybe, but it is not so in really real world the rest of us live in. Symes you are beating around the bush, what is it you are trying to say? Who is this masked man?

Symes · Feb 27, 2004

I challenge you to state it, and without conjecture or allusions, just state it so even my 6 year old could understand.

Are you saying that you do not understand what is being said here? You try and work it out for yourself. Have a guess!

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Feb 27, 2004

Symes said:
Never, that is wrong and you know it to be. We have not added one word to God's Word.

I just do not understand why anyone would say such a lie. There are demoninations that claim to add tradition to God's Word. We are not one of them. Suggest that you get your facts right before making such wild claims.

I know what you are getting at and know how anti EGW you are but please do not think we are adding her words to the Bible.

Symes your church released the Clear Word, and that has added to the scripture. Your church holds EGWs writing to be inspired and true, the exact same words they use to describe the Bible. Oh wait, maybe the "He" in Daniel is really a "She" EGW would fit that bill quite nicely and then it would all tie together just like you want it to.

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Feb 27, 2004

Symes said:
Are you saying that you do not understand what is being said here? You try and work it out for yourself. Have a guess!

Avoidance, avoidance, avoidance. Time to put up or shut up Symes! What are you talking about?

Symes · Feb 27, 2004

Symes your church released the Clear Word, and that has added to the scripture. Your church holds EGWs writing to be inspired and true, the exact same words they use to describe the Bible. Oh wait, maybe the "He" in Daniel is really a "She" EGW would fit that bill quite nicely and then it would all tie together just like you want it to.

The Clear is a paraphrase not a translation.

Symes · Feb 27, 2004

Avoidance, avoidance, avoidance. Time to put up or shut up Symes! What are you talking about?

Have a go and see if you are right!

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Feb 27, 2004

Symes said:
The Clear is a paraphrase not a translation.

Even as a paraphrase it adds meaning that is not there in the original langauges or the English translations. That is adding to the scripture. You don't get out of it by saying "Oh that's just a paraphrase". There is meaning added that is present nowhere outside of the Clear Word that specifically promotes SDA doctrine that is otherwise not supported by scripture. This is called adding to the word.

Oh yeah, what are you getting at Symes? Reveal to us the hidden meaning in these verses, what evil should we be on the lookout for?

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Feb 27, 2004

Symes said:
Have a go and see if you are right!

No Symes, you are the one that claims there is clear implication made in these verses, you spell it out. Stop avoiding it. It is time you made a stand, stop being a weasle and spill it.

deu58 · Feb 27, 2004

hello Symes

Never, that is wrong and you know it to be. We have not added one word to God's Word.

I just do not understand why anyone would say such a lie. There are demoninations that claim to add tradition to God's Word. We are not one of them

.

where did I find these Lies? I got them From Ellen White herself,

"The Holy Ghost is the Author of the Scriptures and of the Spirit of Prophecy."
{Selected Messages,Vol.3 p.30}

"These books contain clear ,straight, unalterable truth and they should be certainly appreciated The instruction they contain is not of human production" {Letter h-339,Dec 26,1904}
"I beg of you for Christ sake to consider what I say :for I say it not of myself. It is the word of God to you" {Letter 25b, 1895,pp 1-3 to Brother and Sister Hare, April 1895}

Yet, now when I send you a testimony of warning and reproof, many of you declare it to be merely the opinion of Sister White. You thereby insulted the Spirit of God. Testimonies 5, p.64.

In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision--the precious rays of light shining from the throne.
Testimonies 5 p. 67.

Hows That for starters?

yours in Christ
deu58

JOE8585 · Feb 27, 2004

ok the Clear Word is a paraphrased, just like the Living Bible is a paraphrased. yes it will have SDA slants on certain text. just like other paraphrased bibles have slants on certain text that pertain to that authors denomination.

have you ever seen a Clear Word? if so did you read the very first page? if you did you will see that it specifically states that it is not intended to be read as a translation of the bible. it is not to be read in public meetings. it boldly identifies itself as a paraphrased study bible. there is nothing damnable about this book.

and as for you statements on Peter and the vision on the roof top. you have boldly and repeatedly scolded symes for not reading the context. so my advice to you is to keep reading yourself.

after the vision occoured three times. peter went to cornielius' house where he reccounts the story and applies it as follows. Peter said that God had given him a vision to show him that he shall not call any MAN uncommon or unclean. the vision was not about food but rather about Jews and Gentiles. and even in the next chapter, chapter 11, Peter retells the story to all the pharisees in Jerusalem and applies it the very same way.

if the meaning of the vision was food then Peter just denied God's direct orders three times. and as far as we can see, he never was repromanded by God for that, nor did he ever repent. and why is that, simply because it wasn't about food, so Peter did nothing wrong.

1 Timothy 4:1-3

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