1 Samuel 16:7 and the Outward Appearance of Things

[leecappella]

This verse is pretty clear to me. Being so, why would those things that seem to matter to us (who seemingly look on the outward appearance) matter to God (who seemingly looks not on the outward appearance)? Some examples being the following:

1. Race and whether or not someone befriends, talks to, associates, or
marries one of another color.

2. Sex or gender and whether or not someone dates or marries someone
of the same sex or gender.

3. Mannerisms and if it is befitting for the female gender to be tomboyish
and partake in those things the world has been conditioned to classify
as 'male only' activities.

4. Mannerisms and if it is befitting for the male gender to be feminine
and partake in those things the world has been conditioned to classify
as 'female only' activities.

5. Clothing and dress and how some view these as determinates of what
kind of person an individual is. This oftentimes also determines the
popularity of an individual as well.

6. First impressions and the obvious. Like in a court case where an
individual is found leaning over a dead person's body and determined
immediately guilty by those who found him there with blood on his or
her hands. With blood on their hands and on the weapon used to
kill the dead (they didn't think and was simply concerned
about the dead person), this individual is condemned as guilty by
the jury, due to the obvious evidence.

7. Long hair on men. This falls under #4, but worth mentioning due to
the debates that used to, and may still, occur over it.

8. Relativism and what is relative to us personally and directly or
indirectly seeming to think that if we feel this or that way about
something or someone then surely others should feel the same way
about them or it because, based on how things look to us personally,
outwardly in the situation and the fact that we feel so strongly about
it, others should see it as we do.

9. Guilty by association and looking on the outward appearance to
determine who or what someone is based on who they hang around
and the outwardness of those people in question, be it their dress,
speech, manners, etc.

10.Physical strength and whether one looks stronger than the other and
choosing the one who does look stronger over the one who does not.

11.Crossdressing. This could fall under #3, #4, and #5, but seeing how
this was addressed in the old testament, I thought it good to take
take note of in light of 1 Samuel 16:7.

Just a few thoughts on 1 Samuel 16:7 to cause some thought on what
the bible says about looking on the outward appearance vs. the heart


In agape love,
leecappella

 

[FOMWatts<><]

This verse is pretty clear to me. Being so, why would those things that seem to matter to us (who seemingly look on the outward appearance) matter to God (who seemingly looks not on the outward appearance)? Some examples being the following:

1. Race and whether or not someone befriends, talks to, associates, or
marries one of another color.

This is an issue that has plagued man since the beginning of time. People are unable to get past the barrier of color, but even more than that the barrier of culture. We do things differently and everyone's way is the "right" way. As far as God goes, I am sure His culture is much different than my sinful inhibitions. So I doubt seriously race matters to God, since HE created all of the races...

2. Sex or gender and whether or not someone dates or marries someone
of the same sex or gender.

This is is a bit different because it deals with the inhibitions of sinful man. God gives a direct command against such relations in Leviticus 18 and 1 Corinthians 6. Knowing that we have thoroughly discussed this topic I won't bother going back into detail. But to answer the original question...God DOES care about the statutes and laws HE set up. Sin remains sin in His sight. He chooses the sin we do not.

3. Mannerisms and if it is befitting for the female gender to be tomboyish
and partake in those things the world has been conditioned to classify
as 'male only' activities.

This is pretty much another label by sinful man. God makes no commands about what male activities are to be. He does however express through His Word that women are to take care of their children and husbands so that is the only similarity in man and God's view on that.

4. Mannerisms and if it is befitting for the male gender to be feminine
and partake in those things the world has been conditioned to classify
as 'female only' activities.

As far as activities go, this is a human rule placed on men just as the answer for 3.

5. Clothing and dress and how some view these as determinates of what
kind of person an individual is. This oftentimes also determines the
popularity of an individual as well.

These are labels all placed by man. God is not so much soncerned with the displays on our t-shirts (if this is what you are talking about) unless the are not glorifying to Him. Most of these can be summed up with Colossians 3


Colossians 3

Rules for Holy Living

1Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. 2Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is your[1] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
5Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[2] 7You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator...

16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. 17And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Rules for Christian Households

18Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
19Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.
20Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord.
21Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged.
22Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, 24since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for his wrong, and there is no favoritism.

Do it all for God's glory and it will be alright. Die to yourself and it'll be cool in His sight! Basically live for Him and not for you. You died, and now HE lives in you

6. First impressions and the obvious. Like in a court case where an
individual is found leaning over a dead person's body and determined
immediately guilty by those who found him there with blood on his or
her hands. With blood on their hands and on the weapon used to
kill the dead (they didn't think and was simply concerned
about the dead person), this individual is condemned as guilty by
the jury, due to the obvious evidence.

This is a case of judgement where some other factor must have been used to determine guilt or innocence. It is a prime example of how God DOES NOT judge. He knows the truth of our lives and what we have inside of us. He does not make false assumptions as in this story, HE stands before us as righteous judge. He places the rules and He sees right through us and knows which ones we violate. No trial necessary, I know the judge and the jury, and the Spirit convicts me of the sin in my life and I turn and run.

7. Long hair on men. This falls under #4, but worth mentioning due to
the debates that used to, and may still, occur over it.

Covered in 4.

8. Relativism and what is relative to us personally and directly or
indirectly seeming to think that if we feel this or that way about
something or someone then surely others should feel the same way
about them or it because, based on how things look to us personally,
outwardly in the situation and the fact that we feel so strongly about
it, others should see it as we do.

All men do this, after all I am right Nah, it is natural for confident man to lean on his oiwn understanding, but when we stop doing that and lean on the Word of God and what IT says about the issue then we will have our paths straightened.

9. Guilty by association and looking on the outward appearance to
determine who or what someone is based on who they hang around
and the outwardness of those people in question, be it their dress,
speech, manners, etc.

Addressed in 5.

10.Physical strength and whether one looks stronger than the other and
choosing the one who does look stronger over the one who does not.

Custom of man..."Only the strong survive!" If that were true...how come there are still weak people

11.Crossdressing. This could fall under #3, #4, and #5, but seeing how
this was addressed in the old testament, I thought it good to take
take note of in light of 1 Samuel 16:7.

This is where what man is used to comes into play and what they associate these figures with. Here you have a male or female dressed in the other sexes labeled clothes. One usually automatically labels that person as a homosexual (which is a specific sin listed in God's Word) and they may very well be someone that just gets a kick out of dresses or tuxedos. IT is yet another sad label of man.

In agape love,
leecappella

[/quote]

Right back at you brother!

Blessings,

FOMWatts<>< 1 Peter 1:8

 

[leecappella]

FOMWatts: This is an issue that has plagued man since the beginning of time. People are unable to get past the barrier of color, but even more than that the barrier of culture. We do things differently and everyone's way is the "right" way. As far as God goes, I am sure His culture is much different than my sinful inhibitions. So I doubt seriously race matters to God, since HE created all of the races...

Me: I agree with you there. God is aware of all He has created. We are the one who are living our lives trying to comprehend His creations. All God created was not specifically, meticulously listed in the creation story. Need it be?

Fomwatts: This is is a bit different because it deals with the inhibitions of sinful man. God gives a direct command against such relations in Leviticus 18 and 1 Corinthians 6. Knowing that we have thoroughly discussed this topic I won't bother going back into detail. But to answer the original question...God DOES care about the statutes and laws HE set up. Sin remains sin in His sight. He chooses the sin we do not.

Me: Yes, we have thorougly discussed this issue, so it is pointless to any further. We disagree on what our eyes see on the pages of the bible where this issue is concerned. It also depends on what bible translation you have and which I have. It is agreed that God chooses the sin and that we do not. Therefore, God is much more aware of what went on in Jesus' day and what those same sex references really referred to and in what context they were condemned. Even so, all things prohibited in levitical law are not sins in and of themselves, but were prohibited due to their association with idolatry and those peoples who worshipped not God the Creator. Truly, if a man rapes a woman, heterosexuality is not condemned because of it as is the traditional view of the Sodom & Gomorrah story: a group of supposed males seeks to rape two men, thus that makes all forms of homosexuality to be condemned. Not so. Not just.

Fomwatts: This is pretty much another label by sinful man. God makes no commands about what male activities are to be. He does however express through His Word that women are to take care of their children and husbands so that is the only similarity in man and God's view on that.

Me: We disagree on the biblical author's humanity having influence in their writings. If their humanity did not affect what they wrote, then Paul's concern for women having short hair and being likened unto prostitutes who were known for short hair, would not be an issue with him. That is, if he was aware that God does not look on the outwardness of us. If God does not look at us and whether or not our hair is long or short, then it should be of no concern to us as believers, even if prostitutes had short hair also. Paul's humanity was in his writings. He, and all other authors of the bible were not controlled by the Spirit as if zombies! Pauls feelings toward long hair on men being a shame to them is another point. Regardless of his intentions for this feeling, if God does not look at the lenghth of a man's hair, it should have been no issue with Paul. Paul the human, yes. Paul, the believer, no.

Fomwatts: These are labels all placed by man. God is not so much concerned with the displays on our t-shirts (if this is what you are talking about) unless the are not glorifying to Him. Most of these can be summed up with Colossians 3

Me: I spoke of men wearing that which pertains to a woman and vice versa. Not sure where you got what is written on someone's shirt from I speak of women wearing pants, which was, at one time, a man only type of clothing or a man wearing a dress, and such. To me, what is on one's outside has no bearing on his or her soul and whether or not they are a good spirited individual whose actions towards God and neighbor are of Christ's example that He gave us in how to treat one another. For a religion (what type?) that is pure is found in how one treats his neighbor and one's heart towards God. Will a man who dresses in a dress get into heaven if he continues to do so, although he loves God and neighbor and his conduct shows it?

Fomwatts: 22Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, 24since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for his wrong, and there is no favoritism.

Me: This passage you gave is a good example of culture and God's lack of concern towards it, so to speak. Slavery would not be tolerated in our culture, but in Jesus' day, it was and it was not condemned either. However, I will say that being a slave has no bearing on one's soul or relationship with God. For, in a sense, all who worship God are slaves to God.

Fomwatts: Do it all for God's glory and it will be alright. Die to yourself and it'll be cool in His sight! Basically live for Him and not for you. You died, and now HE lives in you

Me: I agree. If one follows Christ's example as best as they can, they die to themselves by doing what Jesus would do. This means listening to the Christ within, regardless of what other humans tell you. Think of Martin Luther, not King and what he felt when he turned on the Roman Catholic Church. He did what he felt God was leading him to do and turned on the traditions of men.

Fomwatts: This is a case of judgement where some other factor must have been used to determine guilt or innocence. It is a prime example of how God DOES NOT judge. He knows the truth of our lives and what we have inside of us. He does not make false assumptions as in this story, HE stands before us as righteous judge. He places the rules and He sees right through us and knows which ones we violate. No trial necessary, I know the judge and the jury, and the Spirit convicts me of the sin in my life and I turn and run.

Me: One's spirit may convict him of guilt when he eats food offered to idols, while another's spirit may not find guilt in eating such foods. One should not go against his conscience, even if he goes against the majority. Remember, the majority means nothing just because it is of the majority!

Fomwatts: All men do this, after all I am right? Nah, it is natural for confident man to lean on his own understanding, but when we stop doing that and lean on the Word of God and what IT says about the issue then we will have our paths straightened.

Me: Leaning on God's word is well and good. It is when the individual reads the bible and concludes for himself or herself what the bible is saying and deeming his or her conclusions as the only conclusion permissible to be obtained from what is read. What is 'God's word' anyway? Is it every single word in the bible, such as "He went and hanged himself"? Or is God's word the message of the bible and not each specific word?

Fomwatts: This is where what man is used to comes into play and what they associate these figures with. Here you have a male or female dressed in the other sexes labeled clothes. One usually automatically labels that person as a homosexual (which is a specific sin listed in God's Word) and they may very well be someone that just gets a kick out of dresses or tuxedos. IT is yet another sad label of man.

Me: Uh, no! Being a homosexual is not a specific sin listed in God's word. It is if you have a particular bible, but being a homosexual is not a specified sin that is listed in all bibles. Same sex acts are what is mainly dealt with and it is their context that assists in the condemnation. You and I both know that same sex acts can be committed by heterosexuals also. So, if you have a bible that condemns homosexuals for being, while it does not condemn heterosexuals who commit same sex acts, what is your conclusion. If Leviticus refers to homosexuals, does it refer to heterosexuals as well? If Romans 1 speaks of homosexuals, again, what of heterosexuals who commit the act as well? They are not homosexuals. Are they exempt?

In agape love,
leecappella

Ps. I shall cease when necessary

 

[FOMWatts<><]

Yes, we have thorougly discussed this issue, so it is pointless to any further. We disagree on what our eyes see on the pages of the bible where this issue is concerned. It also depends on what bible translation you have and which I have. It is agreed that God chooses the sin and that we do not. Therefore, God is much more aware of what went on in Jesus' day and what those same sex references really referred to and in what context they were condemned. Even so, all things prohibited in levitical law are not sins in and of themselves, but were prohibited due to their association with idolatry and those peoples who worshipped not God the Creator. Truly, if a man rapes a woman, heterosexuality is not condemned because of it as is the traditional view of the Sodom & Gomorrah story: a group of supposed males seeks to rape two men, thus that makes all forms of homosexuality to be condemned. Not so. Not just.

I guess all I'll say here is we DEFINETLY meet nowhere on this topic.

We disagree on the biblical author's humanity having influence in their writings. If their humanity did not affect what they wrote, then Paul's concern for women having short hair and being likened unto prostitutes who were known for short hair, would not be an issue with him. That is, if he was aware that God does not look on the outwardness of us. If God does not look at us and whether or not our hair is long or short, then it should be of no concern to us as believers, even if prostitutes had short hair also. Paul's humanity was in his writings. He, and all other authors of the bible were not controlled by the Spirit as if zombies! Pauls feelings toward long hair on men being a shame to them is another point. Regardless of his intentions for this feeling, if God does not look at the lenghth of a man's hair, it should have been no issue with Paul. Paul the human, yes. Paul, the believer, no.

Yes we do disagree, and so do you and the Bible...

2 Timothy 2:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

It doesn't say some, but ALL. Though man may think he is speaking in his own knowledge in God's Word, it is God who is speaking THROUGH man.

I agree. If one follows Christ's example as best as they can, they die to themselves by doing what Jesus would do. This means listening to the Christ within, regardless of what other humans tell you. Think of Martin Luther, not King and what he felt when he turned on the Roman Catholic Church. He did what he felt God was leading him to do and turned on the traditions of men.

One must be VERY careful not to confuse "what other humans tell you" with God's Holy and Breathed Word on which we measure ourselves up to God's standards.

One's spirit may convict him of guilt when he eats food offered to idols, while another's spirit may not find guilt in eating such foods. One should not go against his conscience, even if he goes against the majority. Remember, the majority means nothing just because it is of the majority!

One must, again, be VERY careful not to confuse tradition with scripture. A command is much different than a tradition of man.

Leaning on God's word is well and good. It is when the individual reads the bible and concludes for himself or herself what the bible is saying and deeming his or her conclusions as the only conclusion permissible to be obtained from what is read. What is 'God's word' anyway? Is it every single word in the bible, such as "He went and hanged himself"? Or is God's word the message of the bible and not each specific word?

EACH WORD has significance and meaning. Remember ALL scripture, not SOME.

Uh, no! Being a homosexual is not a specific sin listed in God's word. It is if you have a particular bible, but being a homosexual is not a specified sin that is listed in all bibles. Same sex acts are what is mainly dealt with and it is their context that assists in the condemnation.

I won't turn this back into a discussion on homosexuality, because we already have one open. EVERY version (and this is beside the point) refers to a man sleeping with another man as one does with a woman. You can not deny this. Give me ANY version and I will take it back to the Greek for you (AGAIN), but the most reliable manuscripts and scripture refers to man sleeping with man (aka HOMOSEXUALITY). God says this SPECIFICALLY, and there is nothing you can say to twist or change God's Word and command on this.

You and I both know that same sex (me:HOMOSEXUAL)acts can be committed by heterosexuals also.

This statement is within itself a contradiction. So we do not both know this. God condemns the ACT not the ACTOR. There is forgiveness for those found in this sin.

So, if you have a bible that condemns homosexuals for being, while it does not condemn heterosexuals who commit same sex acts, what is your conclusion.

I do not have a Bible that condemns homosexuals that turn from that sin, but one that says that condemns all that die in their sin. If one dies in his sin then he will pay for that sin.

If Leviticus refers to homosexuals, does it refer to heterosexuals as well? If Romans 1 speaks of homosexuals, again, what of heterosexuals who commit the act as well? They are not homosexuals. Are they exempt?

NO! They are NOT exempt. They are held accountable for the sins they commit, unless they truly repent (which in a sense means turn and run) of that sin. That is why I was always careful to say the other things included in the verses I sight. The drunkard is just as much condemned as the homosexual offender (meaning ANYONE that commits a homosexual act), just as much as the greedy, just as much the liar. NONE of these people are condemned is they are in Christ and repent from the sins they commit. Read 1 John, it talks much about the sinner, and how we can not continue to sin if we are in God, because sin is not in God.

In agape love,
leecappella

Ps. I shall cease when necessary

Right back at you brother! I have no clue what you mean by the last statement.

Blessings,

FOMWatts<><

edited for spelling errors

 

[leecappella]

Fomwatts: Yes we do disagree, and so do you and the Bible...2 Timothy 2:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work...It doesn't say some, but ALL. Though man may think he is speaking in his own knowledge in God's Word, it is God who is speaking THROUGH man.

Me: If the biblical authors were inspired by God and their humanity was also active, this verse you quoted still is applicable. Paul himself was aware that all things inspired should be tested. As a result of that 'test', one should keep what is good and discard the bad from that inspiration (1Thessalonians chapter 5).

Fomwatts: One must be VERY careful not to confuse "what other humans tell you" with God's Holy and Breathed Word on which we measure ourselves up to God's standards.

Me: I would agree. This is one reason we two are in disagreement. You are telling me one thing and I don't see the bible reiterating what you say. It's fair to say that you could say the same right back at me. Thus, our disagreement.

Fomwatts: One must, again, be VERY careful not to confuse tradition with scripture. A command is much different than a tradition of man.

Me: Is having slaves a tradition of man or is it, due to it being in the scriptures, considered scriptural? Is it scriptural for female clergy to seek ordination when scripturally, it is prohibited or is that a tradition of man? In the 1830's, 1840's, and 1850's, when congressmen wanted to keep slavery as the law of the land, they used the bible and bible references such as verses found in Exodus chapter 21 to support their case. Was that scriptural or the traditions of man? I do see your point, but is what Fomwatts sees as traditions of man and what Fomwatts sees as scripture to be the only way to see things?

Fomwatts: (Leecappella):You and I both know that same sex acts can be committed by heterosexuals also.

Me: Okay, only I know that. You've seemingly not heard of married heterosexual men who have gone to prison and engaged in same sex acts! How is that contradictory anyway?

Fomwatts: (me:HOMOSEXUAL)

Me: What is that? I didn't originally type it that way, but it showed up in your reply quote like that.

Fomwatts: The drunkard is just as much condemned as the homosexual offender (meaning ANYONE that commits a homosexual act), just as much as the greedy, just as much the liar.

Me: How do you know that 'homosexual offender' is not referring to those who offend homosexuals? Furthermore, 'homosexual', the word, didn't even exist when Paul wrote 1Corinthians 6:9, why is it even there in your bible? There are many other translations that, in place of your 'homosexual offenders', have terms such as 'weaklings', 'effeminate', 'voluptuous persons', etc. How in any way do these equal 'homosexuals'?

Fomwatts: I have no clue what you mean by the last statement.

Me: That means that I will cease or stop in response when I feel we have gone too far or when the 'conversation' becomes futile to me.

In agape love,
leecappella

 

[sbbqb7n16]

Except that you combined two different things into one on number 2... and 11 don't work either.

Number 2a is an outside judgment. Number 2b is a sinful decision and lifestyle that is not an outward appearance, but an inward decision.

And although you make it sound great for number 11 to be considered an outward judgment, you forget its reference to in Scripture in Deuteronomy.

Deut*22:5 "A woman shall not wear man's clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman's clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God.

You can't just up and say "well I'll view that in light of Scripture X" to make it appear as though it would be okay. What God has said is wrong is wrong.

 

[FOMWatts<><]

I would agree. This is one reason we two are in disagreement. You are telling me one thing and I don't see the bible reiterating what you say. It's fair to say that you could say the same right back at me. Thus, our disagreement.

Okay, I'll go back and carefully explain and thoroughly back the claims I am making and put to rest this topic...

Homosexuality is an abomination or hateful sin in God's sight.

NIV
Leviticus 18
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

NASB
Leviticus 18
22 '(1) You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

The Message
Leviticus 18
22"Don't have sex with a man as one does with a woman. That is abhorrent.

The Amplified Bible
Leviticus 18
22You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.

New Living Translation
Leviticus 18
22"Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.

King James Version
Leviticus 18
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

English Standard Version
Leviticus 18
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Contemporary English Version
Leviticus 18
22It is disgusting for a man to have sex with another man.

New King James Version
Leviticus 18
22You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

21st Century King James
Leviticus 18
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination.

American Standard Version
Leviticus 18
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Young's Literal Translation ( I like to call this one the Yoda Version )
Leviticus 18
22 `And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman; abomination it [is].

Darby Translation
Leviticus 18
22 And thou shalt not lie with mankind as one lieth with a woman: it is an abomination.

NIV-UK
Leviticus 18
22 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Here is the verse in Hebrew...shakab zakar mishkab 'ishshah tow`ebah

Here is a Strong's Concordance Reference for ALL Greek and Hebrew Terms...

Thou shalt not lie [07901] shakab
with mankind, [02145] zakar
as with [04904] mishkab
womankind: [0802] 'ishshah
it [is] abomination. [08441] tow`ebah

1 Corinthians 6:9

NIV
1 Corinthians 6
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

New American Standard Bible
1 Corinthians 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

Amplified Bible
1 Corinthians 6
9Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality,

New Living Translation
1 Corinthians 6
9Don't you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals,

King James Version
1 Corinthians 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

English Standard Version
1 Corinthians 6
9Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

Contemporary English Version
1 Corinthians 6
9Don't you know that evil people won't have a share in the blessings of God's kingdom? Don't fool yourselves! No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a homosexual

New King James Version
1 Corinthians 6
9Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,

21st Century King James Version
1 Corinthians 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

American standard Version
1 Corinthians 6
9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,

Young's Literal Translation
1 Corinthians 6
9 have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,

Main Entry: sod·omy
Pronunciation: 'sä-d&-mE
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French sodomie, from Late Latin Sodoma Sodom; from the homosexual proclivities of the men of the city in Gen 19:1-11
Date: 13th century
1 : copulation with a member of the same sex or with an animal
2 : noncoital and especially anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex

Darby Translation
1 Corinthians 6
9 Do ye not know that unrighteous [persons] shall not inherit [the] kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who make women of themselves, nor who abuse themselves with men,

Wycliffe New Testament1 Corinthians 6
9 Whether ye know not, that wicked men shall not wield the kingdom of God? Do not ye err; neither lechers, neither men that serve maumets [neither men serving to idols], neither adulterers, neither lechers against kind, neither they that do lechery with men,

lech·ery
Pronunciation: -rE
Function: noun
Date: 13th century
: inordinate indulgence in sexual activity : LASCIVIOUSNESS

NIV-UK
1 Corinthians 6
9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

Here is the verse in Hebrew...eido ou hoti adikos kleronomeo ou kleronomeo basileia theos planao me planao oute pornos oute eidololatres oute moichos oute malakos oute arsenokoites

Here is a Strong's Concordance Reference for ALL Greek and Hebrew Terms...

Know ye [1492] eido
not [3756] ou
that [3754] hoti
the unrighteous [94] adikos
shall [2816] kleronomeo
not [3756] ou
inherit [2816] kleronomeo
the kingdom [932] basileia
of God? [2316] theos
Be [4105] planao
not [3361] me
deceived: [4105] planao
neither [3777] oute
fornicators, [4205] pornos
nor [3777] oute
idolaters, [1496] eidololatres
nor [3777] oute
adulterers, [3432] moichos
nor [3777] oute
effeminate, [3120] malakos
nor [3777] oute
abusers of themselves with mankind, [733] arsenokoites

Does any of this count as Biblical backing for what I am claiming??? I mean seriously what mroe can you ask for, do you want God to come down and write your own personal version of the Bible??? I promise He isn't going to leave that out for you, but He will forgive and change you if you allow Him.

Blessings,

FOMWatts<><

 

[leecappella]

To All:

Some information in relation to what we have been talking about has been posted in a new thread called 'Sodom, Same Sex Acts in Context, and Questionable Translations'. This is where I may cease

In agape love,
leecappella

 

[FOMWatts<><]

People usually do cease when they can refute no longer what the Word of God says in the beginning.

FOMWatts<><

 

[leecappella]

People usually do cease when they can refute no longer what the Word of God says in the beginning.

FOMWatts<><

Me: I figured you would say that at some point. That is why I've already explained my reason for ceasing and how debates should have an end to them. Not because the one ceasing feels he or she is wrong and has nothing to say, which is your implication, but because if both party's views don't seem to change, then what is the use of continuing on in an endless discussion?

In agape love,
leecappella

 

[FOMWatts<><]

I guess there is no reason. If one can not take the Word of God for what it is worth then there is NO point in arguing or "debating" with them. I will however put on the mod hast and ask you to move all discussions of this topic to liberal theology. I, and any other mod on this forum, would agree that this is heresy and it should not be spread in the CO forum. Thanks and God Bless.

Blessings,

FOMWatts<><

 

[leecappella]

Fomwatts:

It should be noted that me and God's word are not at odds here. What is at odds is me and your interpretation of God's word. There are other aspects of methods and approach that play into our differing, but for me, it is clear that I am not at odds with God's word, only with your interpretation of it. For no matter how you see it, reading is interpreting. So, when you read, you are interpreting what you read. This requires action on your part. Action that is of yourself and, in a sense, classified as 'your own take' on things.

In God the Creator,
leecappella

 

[FOMWatts<><]

I agree. I truly believe that you believe what you believe I accept that I am not gonna change your mind. It seems we are both stubborn HEHEHE, regardless, all my love man and happy Word searching.

Blessings,

FOMWatts<><

I'm going to leave this one in General Theology because it is relatively discussable if the original topic is referred to.