1 John 1:8-10

[jackflash101]

Does 1 Jn 1:9 tell us to apologize to God and seek His forgiveness each and every time we sin, or is it saying that we do so and get cleansed (once and for all) when we get saved?

It seems that asking for His forgiveness all the time is asking for something we already possess, like righteousness and salvation.

Along those lines, I tend to think vs 8 and 10 refer to someone who is an unbeliever, since they claim to have no sin. Thoughts?

 

[mark kennedy]

Does 1 Jn 1:9 tell us to apologize to God and seek His forgiveness each and every time we sin, or is it saying that we do so and get cleansed (once and for all) when we get saved?

It seems that asking for His forgiveness all the time is asking for something we already possess, like righteousness and salvation.

Along those lines, I tend to think vs 8 and 10 refer to someone who is an unbeliever, since they claim to have no sin. Thoughts?

Let's take a look:

• If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (vs. 8)
• If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (vs. 9)
• If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (vs. 10)

(1 John 1:8-10)

There are very few prerequisites for becoming a Christian. A key indispensable requirement is that you are under conviction that you are, in fact, a sinner. The repentance, confession and purification from all unrighteousness (AKA sanctification) are all indicative of a salvation conversion. John's point is pretty simple, if you deny that you are a sinner you are deceiving yourself and calling God a liar. Strong words for an indispensable fact laid out in the gospel, righteousness and salvation are bestowed at conversion as a part of the new nature.

There are three repetitions of the same basic message which makes it look like a Hebrew parallelism, three parallel but slightly different statements. The central emphasis is obvious enough, you can't deny your sin and believe the gospel.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[jackflash101]

Thanks so much Mark! Your response really helps.

 

[mark kennedy]

Thanks so much Mark! Your response really helps.

Your very welcome. At first I was thinking the questions were intellectual but it sounds like your really trying to work something else. Be that as it may, I wish you well in your studies.

 

[Drumfan84]

I think it's saying that we should apologize, and ask for forgiveness when we sin, because after being baptized and cleansed of our sins, that we are more aware and accountable for the sins we may commit in the future.

 

[Shane R]

My little children, these things I write to you, that you may not sin. But if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the just.

John wrote in collective language throughout the text you are studying. Here he further clarifies his audience; his letter is for the faithful. Indeed, all the epistles are primarily purposed for the reading of the faithful.

Confession, whether private or corporate, has always been an important part of the Christian faith. It prepares one for worship, focusing our attention on our relationship with God and that it is hopeless without the mediation of Jesus Christ. It causes us to contemplate Christ's purity and our weakness.

Verse 10 is addressing heretical views which were already appearing in the churches as many of the gnostics distorted or did away with the concept of sin. Many contemporary churches have done the same by deemphasizing repentance and changing the concept of being 'saved' from a process to an event. Confession makes one accountable, an unpalatable and unpopular thing.

 

[St_Worm2]

Many contemporary churches have done the same by deemphasizing repentance and changing the concept of being 'saved' from a process to an event. Confession makes one accountable, an unpalatable and unpopular thing.

Hi Shane, I realize that we approach soteriology differently, but doesn't the Bible say that it is not either/or but both .. On the one hand the Bible says this:

"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." Philippians 2:12b-13*

"He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus." Philippians 1:6​

While on the other, it says this:

"He who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." John 5:24

"By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8-9​

I know there are many more verses supporting both "sides", but isn't it really just two sides of the same coin .. If we are not "justified" at a moment in time and made a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17), on what basis can we expect to be "sanctified" (grow in Christlikeness)?

On the other hand, if someone "claims" to be justified at a moment in time, but then continues to live in the same sinful manner that they did prior to the "claim" being made, can that person truly be considered a Christian? Clearly not. They are not growing in Christ because they have no basis for such grow (having never been "in Christ" to begin with).

Yours and His,
David
*p.s. - as a sidebar, I'd also like to mention that Philippians 2:12, while most often the first verse quoted as proof of the "process", is actually as much proof of the "event". St. Paul doesn't admonish us to work "up" our salvation or work "at" our salvation or work "for" our salvation does he, rather, he admonishes us to work "out" something which we already possess.

 

[Shane R]

Are we justified at a moment in time or at a moment outside of time? Justification is a work of God, who orders time and is beyond time. Justification is ultimately pronounced at the last judgment. Yet for those in Christ it is so certain that it can be spoken of in the present tense.

 

[St_Worm2]

Are we justified at a moment in time or at a moment outside of time? Justification is a work of God, who orders time and is beyond time. Justification is ultimately pronounced at the last judgment. Yet for those in Christ it is so certain that it can be spoken of in the present tense.

Hi Shane, I have to say that I really like what you said here, especially the last sentence which speaks to the wonderful assurance we have in Christ, no matter which branch of the faith we find ourselves a part of.

My only question for you concerns justification being "ultimately pronounced at the last judgment". For the reprobate at the Great White Throne their "sentence" will certainly be pronounced, but which "judgment" do you speak of here concerning believers (or have I misunderstood you somehow) ..

Thanks!

Yours and His,
David

"He who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me,
has eternal life, and does not come into judgment,
but has passed out of death into life."​

​

John 5:24​

 

[Shane R]

Here is an icon "On the Second Coming of Our Lord":

 

[Steeno7]

Does 1 Jn 1:9 tell us to apologize to God and seek His forgiveness each and every time we sin, or is it saying that we do so and get cleansed (once and for all) when we get saved?

It seems that asking for His forgiveness all the time is asking for something we already possess, like righteousness and salvation.

Along those lines, I tend to think vs 8 and 10 refer to someone who is an unbeliever, since they claim to have no sin. Thoughts?

The answer is the same here as it was in the other thread you asked the same question in.

To understand 1st John one must recognize that John is writing to Christians, but about an opponent. Opponents who are making certain claims and preaching certain heretical teachings that John is refuting. He has no doubt of the condition of those he is writing to, as he makes clear many times throughout.

The clearest answer to the confession conundrum, is found in the latter part of 1 John 1:9…”to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” He is speaking about those who are unrighteous, people who have not come to know Christ yet, since those who know Christ are the “righteousness of God.” (2 Cor. 5:21). As John says in 2:12, we are forgiven of our sins...and not because we keep ourselves 'fessed' up, but on account of His name.

 

[mark kennedy]

The answer is the same here as it was in the other thread you asked the same question in.

To understand 1st John one must recognize that John is writing to Christians, but about an opponent. Opponents who are making certain claims and preaching certain heretical teachings that John is refuting. He has no doubt of the condition of those he is writing to, as he makes clear many times throughout.

The clearest answer to the confession conundrum, is found in the latter part of 1 John 1:9…”to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” He is speaking about those who are unrighteous, people who have not come to know Christ yet, since those who know Christ are the “righteousness of God.” (2 Cor. 5:21). As John says in 2:12, we are forgiven of our sins...and not because we keep ourselves 'fessed' up, but on account of His name.

It also speaks of sanctification when you think about it. A believer who is the righteousness of God in Christ can still get caught up in sin, struggling with it their entire lives. However, if we confess our sins God can forgive, but not only that, God can make the believer completely righteous.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Steeno7]

It also speaks of sanctification when you think about it. A believer who is the righteousness of God in Christ can still get caught up in sin, struggling with it their entire lives. However, if we confess our sins God can forgive, but not only that, God can make the believer completely righteous.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Yes, a believer who is the righteousness of God in Christ can still get caught up in sin, and may struggle with it their entire lives.

But, it's not that God 'can' forgive, He 'has' forgiven. It's not the God 'can' make a believer completely righteous, He 'has' made the believer completely righteous.

 

[St_Worm2]

Here is an icon "On the Second Coming of Our Lord":

Hi Shane, that's a very beautiful picture (though it's a little small for my eyes on my HD laptop unfortunately because of all the detail). I'm not sure I understand the point of it though. Are you saying that the theology the icon teaches us concerning the Day of Judgment is correct, but the Lord's teaching in John 5:24 concerning believers and judgment is not somehow ..

Thanks!

--David

 

[Shane R]

The icon is a pictorial representation of Orthodox theology. I often ask my catechism students to look at icons because it usually gives them extra insight on a teaching and the true visual learners get more from the picture than any text we may read.

The verse you have offered from John assumes condemnation in using the word 'judgment'. In fact the text is often translated to more clearly indicate the assumption of a guilty verdict. Here are examples of the common variant readings:

24 Verily, verily I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but hath passed from death to life. (Geneva)

24 “I tell you the truth, whoever hears what I say and believes in the One who sent me has eternal life. That person will not be judged guilty but has already left death and entered life. (NCV)

John 5:27-29 add further detail to the conversation:
27 And hath given him power also to execute judgment, in that he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour shall come, in the which all that are in the graves, shall hear his voice.
29 And they shall come forth, that have done good, unto the resurrection of life: but they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of condemnation.

 

[bcbsr]

1John 1:9 says nothing about asking for forgiveness. Those who have been born of God characteristically call sin, even in themselves, for what it is. Those who characteristically do so are those who are justified from sin

 

[bcbsr]

1John 1:9, Namely that that saved characteristically confess their sins, goes along with verse 7 "if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin." Lifestyle and profession both correlate with a person's salvation status.

This is not to say such things are conditions for salvation, but rather that such things - lifestyle and profession of sin - are characteristic of those born of God.

 

[jackflash101]

Hey! Kind of a belated Thank You for your response. Makes all kind of sense to me.

 

[mark kennedy]

Yes, a believer who is the righteousness of God in Christ can still get caught up in sin, and may struggle with it their entire lives.

But, it's not that God 'can' forgive, He 'has' forgiven. It's not the God 'can' make a believer completely righteous, He 'has' made the believer completely righteous.

Indeed, I stand corrected.

 

[jackflash101]

Hi. Meant to answer back sooner. Thanks though, for your helpful/insightful answer. That really helps. My two roommates seem to say about 1 JN 1:9 that we need to continue to confess, ask forgiveness, to keep us in fellowship on a continual basis, AND keep us forgiven. My issue is that, for 1 thing, that has to at least imply we are continually in danger of losing our salvation; since, where do you stand with God AFTER ea time you sin but BEFORE you ask forgiveness: unforgiven, therefore standing condemned before Him?