1 Cor. 6

[JM]

Last Lord's Day I listened to a sermon preached from 1 Cor. 6.1-8 about Christian freedom. During the sermon a point was made about drinking and alcohol consumption, that it was definitely not a good thing to partake in because you are simply pleasing the flesh, living carnally, etc. and being a bad Christian witness to the world and other Christians. A portion from Philippians 2 was quoted from the KJV, "Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves."

The passage from 1 Cor. 6 is about sexual immorality...can one exegetically get to drinking is immoral or should be avoided from this passage? The portion from Philippians seems to be saying, "don't do things to impress people or seek your own glory." Isn't that passage essentially saying don't conform the world to impress them...like, you know...avoiding drinking as if it is immoral?

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[heirmiles]

Hi JM

Just a thought. He might have been using drinking as a metaphorical analogy of sexual immorality due to the sensitivities of people in the congregation concerning talking about sexuality in church.

 

[hedrick]

Last Lord's Day I listened to a sermon preached from 1 Cor. 6.1-8 about Christian freedom. During the sermon a point was made about drinking and alcohol consumption, that it was definitely not a good thing to partake in because you are simply pleasing the flesh, living carnally, etc. and being a bad Christian witness to the world and other Christians. A portion from Philippians 2 was quoted from the KJV, "Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves."

The passage from 1 Cor. 6 is about sexual immorality...can one exegetically get to drinking is immoral or should be avoided from this passage? The portion from Philippians seems to be saying, "don't do things to impress people or seek your own glory." Isn't that passage essentially saying don't conform the world to impress them...like, you know...avoiding drinking as if it is immoral?

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Please note: I don't consider drinking to be a sin. But there are two ways to get this from 1 Cor 6. The most obvious is "drunkards" in 6:10. But 6:13 can also reasonably be used. It's not that there's a law against alcohol, as that it's not helpful to our bodies.

I actually think both passages suggest moderation, but legalistic Christians manage to tag just about every conceivable human activity with "worldly" and "carnal."

 

[JustAsIam77]

When a sermon strays into legalistic territory I start to zone out, I don't blame the pastor for telling me how I should live as long as it's not tied to salvation.

Paul speaking directly to Peters face comes to mind in Galations 2:

14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[JM]

...so I'll just chaulk it up to pastoral council or advice but not biblical doctrine.

 

[twin1954]

...so I'll just chaulk it up to pastoral council or advice but not biblical doctrine.

Chalk it up to eisegesis and preaching an agenda.

 

[JM]

I have no problem with an Elder giving council but I think the Elder should preface it with "this is pastoral council on the subject" and not offer it as if it's doctrine.

 

[twin1954]

I have no problem with an Elder giving council but I think the Elder should preface it with "this is pastoral council on the subject" and not offer it as if it's doctrine.

The pulpit is no place for man's opinions or council. He can give those privately if he wishes but in the pulpit he ought never teach or preach his opinions. He is called to preach the Word not what he thinks the Word ought to say. As you can tell I have very little patience or give when it comes to men who call themselves preachers. They are to be held to a higher standard especially in what they preach.

 

[heymikey80]

It occurred to me on reading the OP that Paul discusses the Lord's supper a couple of times after this list, at ch10 & 11.

It wasn't Welch's.

 

[cubanito]

...... It's not that there's a law against alcohol, as that it's not helpful to our bodies.."

As Paul recommends to Timothy, I recommend to many of my patients, a little wine is medicinally very good for certain ailments.

Even with today's clean water, I routinely recommend some wine for many of may patients. The list of reasons is long and not germane.

One of the many historical ironies are "temperance" societies. They started out to MODERATE drinking, and so members would sign a pledge not to get drunk by attaching a "t" to their membership role. Oh, but that was not good enough. Some were more spiritual than others and so they totally abstained. To mark their more progressive nature(read:liberal, as in "in His Steps" ie "what would Jesus Do") they put two "t"s which led to the oxymoron of "totally temperate" that was shortened to "teetotaler".

And so, as liberals are want to do, ignoring the Scriptures were wine is used and recommended in moderation in many places (have you seen a Jewish passover?) the "noble experiment" of prohibition was pushed by Christians. Totally contra-Biblical, many fine Christians made fools of themselves.

Wine is good, and like most anything in excess, or for the wrong person, turned to evil.

JR

 

[abacabb3]

Last Lord's Day I listened to a sermon preached from 1 Cor. 6.1-8 about Christian freedom. During the sermon a point was made about drinking and alcohol consumption, that it was definitely not a good thing to partake in because you are simply pleasing the flesh, living carnally, etc. and being a bad Christian witness to the world and other Christians. A portion from Philippians 2 was quoted from the KJV, "Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves."

The passage from 1 Cor. 6 is about sexual immorality...can one exegetically get to drinking is immoral or should be avoided from this passage? The portion from Philippians seems to be saying, "don't do things to impress people or seek your own glory." Isn't that passage essentially saying don't conform the world to impress them...like, you know...avoiding drinking as if it is immoral?

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Strange teaching. Romans 14 is probably the most compelling teaching on the subject. If drinking causes weaker brothers to stumble, then it is good not to do. But God comments the cheering qualities of wine, I wouldn't go against God on that.

 

[gord44]

Nothing wrong with a wee dram of the good stuff. Or a big dram if you so desire.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Last Lord's Day I listened to a sermon preached from 1 Cor. 6.1-8 about Christian freedom. During the sermon a point was made about drinking and alcohol consumption, that it was definitely not a good thing to partake in because you are simply pleasing the flesh, living carnally, etc. and being a bad Christian witness to the world and other Christians. A portion from Philippians 2 was quoted from the KJV, "Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves."

The passage from 1 Cor. 6 is about sexual immorality...can one exegetically get to drinking is immoral or should be avoided from this passage? The portion from Philippians seems to be saying, "don't do things to impress people or seek your own glory." Isn't that passage essentially saying don't conform the world to impress them...like, you know...avoiding drinking as if it is immoral?

Yours in the Lord,

jm

One can't exegetically get to drinking based on 1 Cor. 6, but the practical implications of verse 19 "Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?" can be applied to so many things, including gluttony. But the exegetical context for it is sexual immorality, and interpreting it as other things is kind of throwing out rules of interpretation or being inconsistent in one passage while not in others, and for what reason?

 

[drjean]

All things are lawful...all things are not expedient.

Grace does not give us the freedom to live wildly, but the strength to live righteously.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

God gives mercy to His bruised reeds, and He knows whom they are. Sometimes I really get so tired, so tired of peoples expectations, tired from trying, and tired from failing. I could fall flat on my face, but He catches me, He gives strength where there is none. Who can search the depths of His mercy? Who can find the end of His love for His bride? Oh how He loves us, even when we're confused and choking on pride and selfishness. There is not one sin the blood of Christ has not and will not cover. Our righteousness is as filthy rags, Christ is all of our righteousness! His grace is sufficient my friends! Put your hope in Christ and his life and work for our righteousness and forgiveness!

 

[twin1954]

All things are lawful...all things are not expedient.

Grace does not give us the freedom to live wildly

Sure he does. We are truly free. But in that freedom we no longer desire to live wildly serving the flesh.

, but the strength to live righteously.

Not meaning to pick on you but I must ask what have you done that was truly righteous? What have you done that wasn't mixed with sin?

You see the problem with thinking we can live righteously after believing in Christ is that it lowers righteousness to a level we can reach and destroys true righteousness.

Christ is all our righteousness so instead of seeking to live righteously seek to live in such a way that honors Him.