CROSS - Symbol of Faith or Curse?

SonWorshipper

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Has anyone ever thought about the fact that the most well known symbol for Christianity is the ancient Roman device of execution? This symbol was made mandatorally popular by Constantine who used it as his standard after having a "vision" of a cross in the clouds.

Our witness is our lifestyle and people will know by the Holy Spirit abiding within us that we are Christ's. Remember that the Lord said that if we bring a cursed object into our home we take the curse on us also.


Deuteronomy 7:26 "Neither shall you bring an abomination (an idol) into your house, lest you become an accursed thing like it; but you shall utterly detest and abhor it, for it is an accursed thing."


What is an accursed thing?

Deuteronomy 21 22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: 23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.



We must understand that the cross is a symbol of death, grief, sorrow and agony, and like other objects that we should not have in our home, we don't need to have a cross either, even around our necks. If you have seen any pictures of rock music singers, they almost all have crosses around their necks, in their ears, or other parts of their body. Almost every religion uses a cross, including voodoo (they also use rosary beads). Buddha temples have crosses on the building.

It is a sign of a curse as you can see by the scripture in Deuteronomy.

Was it also not a curse when this was burned on someones front lawn, weren't these people considered cursed?
Images%5Cburning%20cross1.jpg


Madonna is famous for wearing a Cross and when once asked about it, she replyed : I think it's sexy, because it has a dead naked man on it.":(



According to Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, the shape of the cross "had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt.


Davis Dictionary of the Bible states about the origin of the cross:
"The pre-Christian cross of one form or another was in use as a sacred symbol among the Chaldeans, the Phoenicians, the Eqyptians, and many other…nations. The Spaniards in the 16th century found it also among the Indians of Mexico and Peru. But its symbolic teaching was quite different from that which we now associate the cross" (p. 159).


 

Oblio

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We must understand that the cross is a symbol of death, grief, sorrow and agony, and like other objects that we should not have in our home, we don't need to have a cross either, even around our necks. If you have seen any pictures of rock music singers, they almost all have crosses around their necks, in their ears, or other parts of their body. Almost every religion uses a cross, including voodoo (they also use rosary beads). Buddha temples have crosses on the building.

The Cross is the symbol of Bright Sadness, a symbol of the joy that Christ God descended into Hades and defeated death by death.

An Explanation of the Russian Orthodox Three-Bar Cross



On the Cross is our Savior, Jesus Christ. Note that He does not wear a crown of thorns, and that His feet are nailed with two nails. Behind the body of Christ, on either side, are a lance (which pierced Him) and a sponge (which was soaked with gall and offered to Christ to drink) on a pole made of reed or cane. On the body of Christ is depicted blood and water flowing forth from His side. Below the feet of Christ are four Slavonic letters meaning: "The place of the skull became Paradise". Hidden in a cave under the earth is 'the skull of Adam'. We are thus reminded that Adam our forefather lost Paradise through the tree from which he wrongly partook; Christ is the new Adam, bringing us Salvation and Paradise through the tree of the Cross. The city of Jerusalem is depicted in the background, for He was crucified outside the city walls.

 
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mountaingoat

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Oblio said:
That is nearly identical to what the Watchtower (JW) tracts say ...

I am familiar with the Watchtower. Just to find another reference I went to crosswalk.com and found this:

*this is for cross in the new testament*
Strong's Number: 4716 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
staurovß from the base of (2476)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Stauros 7:572,1071
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
stow-ros' Noun Masculine

Definition
an upright stake, esp. a pointed one
a cross
 
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SonWorshipper

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Oblio said:
That is nearly identical to what the Watchtower (JW) tracts say ...

Hmm, In Numbers 21 We see something very interesting regarding this.


Numbers 21: 5
And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. 6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.


They confess and repent:

Numbers 21: 7
Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.



The Lord tells Moses in a very telling, acted out parable, if you will what to do.

Numbers 21: 8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

And so Moses did as the L-rd directed:

Numbers 21: 9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.


Two things of note here.

1. It is upon a pole that this serpent ( sin) hung.

2. It was the serpent that needed to be "beheld" for them to live, not the pole.
 
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Oblio

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This is called foreshadowing ;)

And you do know, don't you, that we worship Christ God that hung on the Cross, not the Cross itself. But without the Cross, there is no death of our Lord, no death, no Resurrection, no Resurrection, no Salvation. So we call the Cross lifegiving ...
 
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Woodsy

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I see the empty cross as a symbol of Yeshua's victory over death. It was a symbol of execution, but it's emptiness is the statement.
As for the crucifix, it is a powerful reminder of the suffering and sacrifice which Yeshua endured for us. It is such a strong image - one that we should remember to remind us at what price we were bought.

As regarding pagan crosses, we must remember that laying two straight lines across each ohter was one of the first steps that all primitive people took when devising a writing system. It's very, very basic. Also, the pagan crosses were most often equal-armed, whereas the Christian cross (the calvary cross, specifically) is of different meaning specific to Yeshua. The eqaul-armed cross usually represented the sun, or the balance of the four elements, the four seasons, etc. and was also often placed within a circle.
I also like the Orthodox cross, as its design is very distinctive to Christianity.
 
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Woodsy

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What's also interesting is that the "Star of David" is not considered at all a controversial symbol by Jews, but it is such a relatively recent adoption. And the Star of David is a hexagram which was used by many pagan cultures as well, in fact it shows up constantly in Hindu Yantras. Back in my Pagan days (evoking demons and such), we made extensive use of the hexagram as a banishing during most ritual work.
Here's a quote from a post I made in another thread:

Gershom Scholem in the Judaica Encyclopedia (Vol. 1, column 687) says (regarding the Star of David):

"From as early as the Bronze Age it was used—possibly as an ornament —in many civilizations and in regions as far apart as Mesopotamia and Britain. Iron Age examples are known from India and from the Iberian peninsula prior to the Roman conquest. Occasionally it appears on Jewish artefacts, such as lamps and seals, but without having any special and recognizable significance. The oldest undisputed example is on a seal from the seventh century B.C.E. found in Sidon and belonging to one Joshua b. Asayahu. In the Second Temple period, the hexagram was often used by Jews and non-Jews alike alongside the pentagram (the five-pointed star), and in the synagogue of Capernaum (second or third century C.E.) it is found side by side with the pentagram on a frieze. There is no reason to assume that it was used for any purposes other than decorative. Theories interpreting it as a planetary sign of Saturn and connecting it with the holy stone in the pre-Davidic sanctuary in Jerusalem (Hildegard Lewy, in Archiv Orientln, vol. 18, 1950, 330–65) are purely speculative.
Between 1300 and 1700 the two terms, shield of David and seal of Solomon, are used indiscriminately, but slowly the former gained ascendancy. It was also used, from 1492, as a printers' sign, especially in books printed in Prague in the first half of the 16th century and in the books printed by the Foa family in Italy and Holland, who incorporated it in their coat of arms. Several Italian Jewish families followed their example between 1660 and 1770. All these usages had as yet no general Jewish connotation.

[...]

The prime motive behind the wide diffusion of the sign in the 19th century was the desire to imitate Christianity. The Jews looked for a striking and simple sign which would "symbolize" Judaism in the same way as the cross symbolizes Christianity. This led to the ascendancy of the magen David [Star of DAvid] in official use, on ritual objects and in many other ways. From central and Western Europe it made its way to Eastern Europe and to oriental Jewry. Almost every synagogue bore it; innumerable communities, and private and charitable organizations stamped it on their seals and letterheads. Whereas during the 18th century its use on ritual objects was still very restricted—a good specimen is a plate for mazzot (1770), reproduced on the title page of Monumenta Judaica, catalog of a Jewish exposition in Cologne, 1963—it now became most popular. "
 
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SonWorshipper

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Oblio said:
This is called foreshadowing ;)

And you do know, don't you, that we worship Christ God that hung on the Cross, not the Cross itself. But without the Cross, there is no death of our Lord, no death, no Resurrection, no Resurrection, no Salvation. So we call the Cross lifegiving ...

I am well aware of that, Thank You :) However my point was in regards to your comment about the "Pole" and that it had to do with Jehovah's witnesses. I was showing that the pole was a proper "translation". It is also referred to as a Stake.

And since you brought it up, if you are worshipping the risen L-rd then what is the need for all the crucifixes? The crosses?

BTW how does the Orthodox Decalogue read?
 
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Woodsy

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SonWorshipper said:
Isn't the Bronze age around the time of King David?

So is he the one that gave the design to the Mesopotamians, to the people of India and the British?

Gershom Shcholem in the Judaica Encyclopedia said:
From as early as the Bronze Age it was used—possibly as an ornament —in many civilizations and in regions as far apart as Mesopotamia and Britain. Iron Age examples are known from India and from the Iberian peninsula prior to the Roman conquest. Occasionally it appears on Jewish artefacts, such as lamps and seals, but without having any special and recognizable significance. The oldest undisputed example is on a seal from the seventh century B.C.E. found in Sidon and belonging to one Joshua b. Asayahu. In the Second Temple period, the hexagram was often used by Jews and non-Jews alike alongside the pentagram (the five-pointed star), and in the synagogue of Capernaum (second or third century C.E.) it is found side by side with the pentagram on a frieze. There is no reason to assume that it was used for any purposes other than decorative.


I don't think it diminishes Judaism at all if we acknowledge that the hexagram was (and still is) in use by cultures around the world, for non-Jewish purposes, and that the Jews adopted it fairly late in the game. I personally feel that the menorah (as in the Seal of the state of Israel) would be a more appropriate symbol for the Jews - since it references the Jewish Temple which is unique to the Jewish Faith. IMHO, of course! :)
 
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Oblio

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And since you brought it up, if you are worshipping the risen L-rd then what is the need for all the crucifixes? The crosses?

Without debating ;) since I can plainly state why Orthodox Christians venerate the Cross.

It reminds us of the Sacrifice that brought us our Salvation, and we worship the Prototype (Christ) that is depicted on the Cross. For Orthodox Christians, the Cross and Resurection (especially) are vital to our Salvation.
 
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SonWorshipper

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Tribe said:
So is he the one that gave the design to the Mesopotamians, to the people of India and the British?

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I don't think it diminishes Judaism at all if we acknowledge that the hexagram was (and still is) in use by cultures around the world, for non-Jewish purposes, and that the Jews adopted it fairly late in the game. I personally feel that the menorah (as in the Seal of the state of Israel) would be a more appropriate symbol for the Jews - since it references the Jewish Temple which is unique to the Jewish Faith. IMHO, of course! :)

Hmm, I don't really know, but if it is true that this symbol is from the two D's in King David's name and they were put on the shields of his army, then any that came against that army could well have thought there was some power in that symbol and carried it far and wide. Same thing happened it seems with the cross and Constantine, is there power in the symbol for anyone that chooses to use it, right or wrong?:scratch:
 
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SonWorshipper

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Yes,, I agree, and more than that but it represents the Glory and Spirit of the L-rd G-d.

Some see that Messianic symbol as three in one, but actually it is only two. The mennorah, and the fish. The true star only comes about when they are combined together.

Yeshua said he would make all that followed him, Fishers of Men, and I believe that is where the fish comes from. It is also from the Loaves and fishes story, showing the mulitplying of the "fish".
 
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Oblio

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The menorah in the seal is the uniquely Jewish symbol, representing the Temple - the focus of Jewish worship and identity:

There is one of these in each Orthodox Christian Sanctuary, a symbol of our Jewish roots.
 
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SonWorshipper

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Our Ark, where we keep the Torah Scroll ( for those that don't know, (believe it or not when I tried describing this once on a Chrisitan forum I was accused of worshipping a wooden box! :eek: What an ark is) we have all three symbols, but as you can see by this picture ( of Marc Chopinsky, Messianic Musical artist originally from the group Israel's Hope) the Mennorah is predominate.

The symbol on top ( Star and fish) is a symbol that is copyrighted and belongs to our congregation, but I love it as it shows that Christianity, or Belief in Messiah, stricktly and foremost comes directly out of Judaism ( the Star) for Yeshua is the Root of Jesse too!:)


Oblio, I am surprised to hear that, do you have any pictures? Is this peculiar to your specific church or is this in all Orthodox churches?
 

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