Just To Put Prisoner Abuse In Perspective

brewmama

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This is from a member only site, so I can't link it, it was Matt Labash visiting Guantanamo in 2002. He was talking to the guards:

"At some point, that might become necessary, they tell me, as plotting is obviously afoot. Sgt. Matt Lampert of Montana says the other day one of the prisoners was caught "with a piece of cloth stuffed with rocks that was tied off at the end." Sgt. Rodney Davis says that during chowtime, he sees them through his scope "making terrain models out of their food." And unlike say, Afghan prisons, where starving detainees are reportedly begging to be sent to Gitmo, there's plenty of food to play with. "They get fed better than us, sir," says Lampert. When I ask the Marines if they've seen anything weird, they laugh sheepishly, looking at each other. Finally, Sgt. Josh Westbrook, who sports a forearm tattoo of flaming baby heads, steps up. "They know they're being watched," he explains, "so they'll stare at you, and while they stare at you, they'll, uh, touch."

According to these Marines, they don't just pleasure themselves to freak out the snipers, but also to embarrass the female Army guards in the camp's interior. The weirdness doesn't end there. They've also eaten their toiletries and urinated on equipment. "The other day," says Westbrook, "one of the guys tried to do a naked cartwheel." In the most bizarre twist, Lance Corporal Devin Klebaur says a few have also been known to "put toothpaste in their bum(edited)." "What's the purpose?" I ask. "I'm not sure," he says, puzzled. "

So...maybe it's not the worst or most humiliating thing in the world for an Arab male to be subjected to this? Not to say that Abu Ghraib is pretty, (pretty perverted actually if you ask me ) but maybe the famed Arab modesty is a bit overblown.
 
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Existential1

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You can be fairly certain that SS guards regaled friends and each other, with precisely such tales of the odd Jews they were called to look after; as they rebutted, or put into perspective, the ridiculous rumour that these Jews were actually coming to some harm in these camps.
 
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Ampmonster

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Existential1 said:
You can be fairly certain that SS guards regaled friends and each other, with precisely such tales of the odd Jews they were called to look after; as they rebutted, or put into perspective, the ridiculous rumour that these Jews were actually coming to some harm in these camps.
my goodness! US troops are comparable to Nazis?

i believe this story is entirely possible. how do you control prisoners who arent afraid of dying? humilation
 
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Starscream

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When I was a kid, I was never allowed to put my acadamic performace "into perspective" but pointing out to my parents the other children that were failing. Maybe that's why my grades were mostly good?

I'm not sure how one could find any comfort in holding their fellow Americans up to such very low standards. <shrug>
 
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Existential1

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Ampmonster said:
my goodness! US troops are comparable to Nazis?

i believe this story is entirely possible. how do you control prisoners who arent afraid of dying? humilation

No.

I refer to the OP: where the stories about detainees; could be expected to find parallel amongst SS guards. Where the common denominator, is the culture towards prisoners, that develops where you have fairly complete power, and a nihilisticallt reductive view of prisoners.

The other parallel would be with the posts which preceeded my own: which were approving of the post; and which were entertaining a pejorative view of those who might come to criticise it. Where, again, you would also expect to find such attitude associated with concentration camps.

US troops were never mentioned, explictly or implicitly: the detainees could have been being held by Disney, or Brits, or whoever; and their would still be no suggestion of them being like Nazis.
The parallel is with power over others, and the presence of a reductive and nihilistic approach to these others.
 
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Starscream

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Ampmonster said:
i cant believe you guys cant say an insurgant execution is worse than prisoner mistreatment.
I rather think it doesn't matter. My parents certainly didn't care that my grades were simply better than Joe Bob's.

If the beheading is so horrible (and it is), then what's with all those *using* that to downplay the prisoner torture by American hands? Smacks of shameful opportunism, IMHO.
 
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kermit

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Ampmonster said:
i cant believe you guys cant say an insurgant execution is worse than prisoner mistreatment.
i've said the prison scandal is deplorable, but im talking about the COVERAGE
Aren't we also investigating the deaths of 20 prisoners? It is suspected that they were killed by guards. So is beheading worse that murder? Oh yeah, they're the same thing.

I cannot allow one to justify the other. I won't use the types of moral relativity that so many are using.
 
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mala

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people can't seperate one thing from the other
if "they're" side does something bad they would rather point to something worse that the "other" side has done and try to brush their mistakes off
frankly it is a weakness in the character of the individual
putting things into perspective by comparing to others is a error of relativism
a lot of people do it and that tells you a lot of what people are made of
 
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Existential1

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error of relativism

New word combination to me.

Nice one

putting things into perspective by comparing to others is a error of relativism

In fact that whole sentence is pretty good.

I suspect that it will fall as seed, on the soil of my ferment, and flower as something I will then imagine is my own.
 
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reverend B

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Existential1 said:
New word combination to me.

Nice one



In fact that whole sentence is pretty good.

I suspect that it will fall as seed, on the soil of my ferment, and flower as something I will then imagine is my own.
LOL
if you are gonna steal, only steal the good stuff.
you're a riot, e1.
 
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