Sabbath Keeping and The Gospel

Jan001 · Saturday at 11:18 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
Still doesn’t say Mary is the ark of the covenant. Mary was not even born yet, when God revealed what was inside the ark Exo25:21 Exo40:20 1Kings8:9 patterned after the heavenly temple. Heb8:5 Heb9:23-24

The Book of Revelation is a prophetic book. Its many vignettes were not written in chronological order.

People can use reason to determine that Mary is the ark of the new covenant.

Steve Ray explains that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant, drawing typological parallels between her and the Ark of the Old Covenant to highlight how God’s presence transitions from spiritual to physical dwelling.

Key Parallels Identified:

Divine Presence: The Old Ark contained the Stone Tablets, Manna, and Aaron’s Rod; the New Ark (Mary) contains Jesus, who is the Word of God, the New Manna, and the High Priest.
The Visitation: Elizabeth’s question, "How has it happened to me that the mother of my Lord would come to me?" (Luke 1:43), parallels David’s question, "How can the ark of the Lord come to me?" (2 Samuel 6:9).
Reactions: David danced before the Ark, just as John the Baptist leapt in Elizabeth’s womb at Mary’s presence.
Overshadowing: The Holy Spirit overshadowed the Ark with the Shekinah glory, and the Spirit overshadowed Mary at the Annunciation.

Ray contends that while the Ark typologically foreshadows Christ in terms of sacrifice, it serves as the specific antitype for Mary in Luke’s narrative of the Visitation, emphasizing that God now dwells physically in human flesh. BRAVE AI

SabbathBlessings said:
You also cut and pasted two verses together. We can literally make the Bible say anything we want in doing so, but then it’s no longer His pure word Pro30:5-6 I guess thats why He tells us not to do this. The women clothed in white are the saints Rev19:8 or God’s true church. The other women/harlot in Revelation represents the counterfeit church. The saints keep God’s commandments, His version Rev14:12 the harlot church changed God’s times and laws Dan7:25.

There weren't any chapter or verse designations in any of the original manuscripts.

I recommend always reading the verse at the end of the previous chapter in all the books of scripture to see if or how it relates to the verse at the beginning of each chapter.

SabbathBlessings said:
Rev 11:18-19 is about judgment, nothing about Mary.

The judgment vignette ends with verse 18, and a new vignette begins with verse 19, and it continues in the first verses of chapter 12.

Centuries after this Revelation manuscript was written, someone made chapter and verse designations for it, and he wasn't aware that some verses needed to remain together in the same chapter to better portray what was being taught by its author.

SabbathBlessings said:
I believe you’re taking Col 2:16-18 out of context. This is about something that is contrary and against man. Col2:14KJV, Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, not against man. Mark2:27 Paul would never teach against Christ, He said in this same passage everything has to be according to Christ Col2:8 and warned not to be deceived of teachings otherwise. God’s Blessings Exo20:11 Isa 56:2 and what Jesus is LORD of Mark2:28 is certainly not against man. It’s a sad interpretation of these verses.

No, I am not taking it out of context or interpreting it incorrectly.

The sabbaths, festivals, new moons, dietary, and circumcision laws were for the first-covenant Israelites/Jews only.
These laws set them apart from all the other people living at that time. Exodus 31:13, Ezekiel 20:12, Ezekiel 20:19-20, Genesis 17:12

Circumcision was required for all males to keep the first covenant.
God required both circumcision and the keeping of the Sabbath for Israelite men to distinguish them from men of other nations. When circumcision for men became obsolete under the new covenant, the Sabbath also became obsolete.

Genesis 17:14
And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.”

There isn't any distinction between nationalities under God's new covenant; therefore, all the first covenant laws are obsolete.
Jesus has new laws for his new covenant, and they don't include keeping the Sabbath of the Jews.

Matthew 19:16-19
Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

Romans 13:9-11
For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

The Sabbath is a first covenant requirement; it is not a new covenant requirement. Taking part in the local Christian assembly on the first day of the week was required of Christians in the new covenant.

Hebrews 10:24-26
And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

SabbathBlessings · Sunday at 4:34 AM

Jan001 said:
People can use reason to determine that Mary is the ark of the new covenant.

It’s exactly what God told us not to do. Use our own reasoning over the clear word of God. Pro3:5-6 Jer 17:9 Psa 119:105 Isa 8:20 so I am going to stick with what God said. He told us explicitly what is in His ark Exo25:21 Exo40:20 1Kings8:9 Rev11:19. What faith is all about believing Him at His word.

Jan001 said:
The judgment vignette ends with verse 18, and a new vignette begins with verse 19, and it continues in the first verses of chapter 12.

Not at all, the Ten Commandments is what we will be judged by, Ecc12:13-14 Exo20:20 John12:48 James 2:11-12 Rev11:18-19 why we do not need to separate one verse from another In the same passage but let the Bible interpret the Bible.

Jan001 said:
No, I am not taking it out of context or interpreting it incorrectly.

Anytime we are using Scripture to teach the exact opposite of what Christ said, it’s not a sound interpretation. Especially when the same word has several different meanings and Paul told us what he was referring to, the handwritten ordinances Col2:14KJV that were written by Moses 2Chron33:8, not the Testimony of God written by God Exo31:18 that Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, not against man, that He is LORD of, seriously people do not realize what they are saying here by misapplying this verse. This would mean God made something at Creation Exo20:11 to be against man- God is against man after He created man in His own image Gen1:26, what He is LORD of is against man. God's blessing is against man. Exo20:11 Isa 56:2 This would also place Paul as the master, when he said he was Christ’s servant Rom1:1 and a servant serves the way the Master says Isa56:6 not how we want which defeats the purpose. John13:16. I can see why there is a warning about misunderstanding Paul and where that path can lead 2Peter3:16

Jan001 said:
The Sabbath is a first covenant requirement; it is not a new covenant requirement. Taking part in the local Christian assembly on the first day of the week was required of Christians in the new covenant.

Hebrews 10:24-26
And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

What God deems as doing righteousness Isa 56:1-2 Psa 119:172 never changes Psa 119:142, its the foundation of God’s throne Psa 89:14 where His word is settled Psa 119:89 including the ark that holds the Testimony of God - the unedited version. Exo31:18 Rev11:19 Exo25:21 because who can edit God, no one, one can only try Dan7:25

Why the assembly is still on the Sabbath Isa66:23, the holy day of the LORD thus saith the LORD Isa 58:13 Exo20:10 Mar 2:28 who says I change not. If you wish to speak for God and tell Him something He never said that can be between you and God, but Jesus told man to live by every word of God, not change His words. I am going to stick with what God said, it’s what Jesus did when He was tempted and the only way we will be able to overcome the tempter, is to live how Jesus told mankind to live by, what God says, not what is popular with men.

Jan001 · Sunday at 1:37 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
It’s exactly what God told us not to do. Use our own reasoning over the clear word of God. Pro3:5-6 Jer 17:9 Psa 119:105 Isa 8:20 so I am going to stick with what God said. He told us explicitly what is in His ark Exo25:21 Exo40:20 1Kings8:9 Rev11:19. What faith is all about believing Him at His word.

The oral traditions of the church are as important as its scripture traditions.

It is easy for people to mislead themselves concerning the correct interpretations of the scriptures if they ignore the oral—word-of-mouth—traditions of the church.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

The historical records explicitly state that the early Christian Gentiles observed Sunday, aka the Lord's Day, instead of the Saturday Sabbath of the Jews.

The Early Church Fathers consistently identified the Lord's Day as the first day of the week (Sunday), the day of Christ's resurrection, rather than the seventh-day Sabbath.

Key Patristic Testimonies

Ignatius of Antioch (c. A.D. 110) taught that Christians no longer observed the Sabbath but lived in the observance of the Lord's Day, marking a shift from Jewish law to new hope in Christ.
The Didache (c. A.D. 70–120) instructed believers to gather on every Lord's Day to break bread and give thanks.
Justin Martyr (c. A.D. 155) described Sunday as the day Christians gathered for worship and communion because it was the first day God created light and the day Jesus rose from the dead.
Clement of Alexandria (c. A.D. 194) was among the first to explicitly use the term "Lord's Day" in his writings to refer to Sunday in a weekly context.

Theological Distinction

The Fathers did not view Sunday as a replacement for the Sabbath under the Fourth Commandment. Instead, they regarded it as a distinct celebration of the Resurrection and the "eighth day" symbolizing the new creation. While some early Jewish Christians kept the Sabbath, the majority observed Sunday as a divine institution based on apostolic tradition and the event of the Resurrection, not as a continuation of the Mosaic Sabbath law. BRAVE AI

The historical record does not support your viewpoint.

I don't have anything else to add to this discussion.

SabbathBlessings · Sunday at 2:30 PM

Jan001 said:
The oral traditions of the church are as important as its scripture traditions.

It is easy for people to mislead themselves concerning the correct interpretations of the scriptures if they ignore the oral—word-of-mouth—traditions of the church.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

The historical records explicitly state that the early Christian Gentiles observed Sunday, aka the Lord's Day, instead of the Saturday Sabbath of the Jews.

The Early Church Fathers consistently identified the Lord's Day as the first day of the week (Sunday), the day of Christ's resurrection, rather than the seventh-day Sabbath.

Key Patristic Testimonies

Ignatius of Antioch (c. A.D. 110) taught that Christians no longer observed the Sabbath but lived in the observance of the Lord's Day, marking a shift from Jewish law to new hope in Christ.

The Didache (c. A.D. 70–120) instructed believers to gather on every Lord's Day to break bread and give thanks.

Justin Martyr (c. A.D. 155) described Sunday as the day Christians gathered for worship and communion because it was the first day God created light and the day Jesus rose from the dead.

Clement of Alexandria (c. A.D. 194) was among the first to explicitly use the term "Lord's Day" in his writings to refer to Sunday in a weekly context.

Theological Distinction
The Fathers did not view Sunday as a replacement for the Sabbath under the Fourth Commandment. Instead, they regarded it as a distinct celebration of the Resurrection and the "eighth day" symbolizing the new creation. While some early Jewish Christians kept the Sabbath, the majority observed Sunday as a divine institution based on apostolic tradition and the event of the Resurrection, not as a continuation of the Mosaic Sabbath law. BRAVE AI

The historical record does not support your viewpoint.

I don't have anything else to add to this discussion.

Yes, the tradition of Sunday came from outside the Bible Isa8:20

Jesus warned about traditions of man over obeying the commandment of God quoting from the Ten Commandments. He said it makes void God's Word. Its a worship that honors Him with their lips, but not in their heart. God said when we break the Sabbath, ones heart is going after idols Eze20:16 because its replacing the authority of God with another voice.

Mat 15:3 He answered them, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ 5 But you say, ‘If anyone tells his father or his mother, “What you would have gained from me is given to God,”[a] 6 he need not honor his father.’ So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word[b] of God. 7 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said:

8 “‘This people honors me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me;
9 in vain do they worship me,
teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”

The Sabbath is a commandment of God, written by God spoken by God. God placed it in the same category as only worshipping Him, and not murdering our neighbor.

I guess God will sort this all out in His time.

Jan001 · Sunday at 2:58 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
I guess God will sort this all out in His time.

God already did.
His son, Jesus Christ, founded a church and appointed its leaders to teach his gospel. They did as he commanded. They even recorded some of his teachings on parchment. They never intended for these manuscripts to replace their oral teaching tradition.

Matthew 28:18-20, Matthew 16:15-19, Matthew 18:15-19

SabbathBlessings · Sunday at 4:02 PM

Jan001 said:
God already did.
His son, Jesus Christ, founded a church and appointed its leaders to teach his gospel. They did as he commanded. They even recorded some of his teachings on parchment. They never intended for these manuscripts to replace their oral teaching tradition.

Matthew 28:18-20, Matthew 16:15-19, Matthew 18:15-19

A church that changed Dan7:25 God's own written and spoken Testimony. Exo31:18 Exo20:6 Deut4:13 Not God's true remnant church Rev12:17 Rev14:12 Rev22:14

Revelation speaks of two women in Scripture that represent churches. The pure church dressed in white, clothed in Christ righteousness and the harlot Mother church who made all nations drink the wine of Babylon Rev14:8 , who thought to change God's times and laws Dan7:25. I guess in the end, God will sort out who is who.

I pray we choose wisely. Take care.

Jan001 · Sunday at 5:18 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
A church that changed Dan7:25 God's own written and spoken Testimony. Exo31:18 Exo20:6 Deut4:13 Not God's true remnant church Rev12:17 Rev14:12 Rev22:14

The true remnant church does what Jesus tells them to do. He commanded that his followers obey his church leaders.

Matthew 28:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Luke 6:46
“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

Jesus said that he was the Lord/creator of the Sabbath; therefore, he could do what he wanted to do concerning it. Matthew 12:1-8
Jesus didn't command any of his Gentile followers to keep the Sabbath of the Jews. After his resurrection, he didn't command any of his Jewish followers to keep it.

John 4:20-21
Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.” 20
“Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

Concerning covenants:

"Forever" only lasts as long as the covenant is valid. If the Israelites break their covenant, God may choose to make a new one, which he did, but with all people, not just with the Israelites.

Exodus 27:21
In the tabernacle of meeting, outside the veil which is before the Testimony, Aaron and his sons shall tend it from evening until morning before the Lord. It shall be a statute forever to their generations on behalf of the children of Israel.

Isaiah 24:5
The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants, Because they have transgressed the laws, Changed the ordinance, Broken the everlasting covenant.

The "everlasting" circumcision and Sabbath obligations in the first covenant are of no value under Jesus Christ's new covenant. Exodus 31:13, Isaiah 1:12-15, Colossians 2:11-17

Genesis 17:13
He who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money must be circumcised, and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Come out of the old covenant into the new covenant; Jesus is there waiting for you.

Hebrews 8:13
In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

SabbathBlessings · Sunday at 5:47 PM

Jan001 said:
The true remnant church does what Jesus tells them to do. He commanded that his followers obey his church leaders.

None of these verse below say, to disobey God and follow whoever claims to be His church. The apotles taught everything according to Christ Col2:8 not traditions and to obey God over man Acts 5:29

Jan001 said:
Matthew 28:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Luke 6:46
“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

Jesus said that he was the Lord/creator of the Sabbath; therefore, he could do what he wanted to do concerning it. Matthew 12:1-8
Jesus didn't command any of his Gentile followers to keep the Sabbath of the Jews. After his resurrection, he didn't command any of his Jewish followers to keep it.

John 4:20-21
Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.” 20
“Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

Concerning covenants:

"Forever" only lasts as long as the covenant is valid. If the Israelites break their covenant, God may choose to make a new one, which he did, but with all people, not just with the Israelites.

Exodus 27:21
In the tabernacle of meeting, outside the veil which is before the Testimony, Aaron and his sons shall tend it from evening until morning before the Lord. It shall be a statute forever to their generations on behalf of the children of Israel.

Isaiah 24:5
The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants, Because they have transgressed the laws, Changed the ordinance, Broken the everlasting covenant.

The "everlasting" circumcision and Sabbath obligations in the first covenant are of no value under Jesus Christ's new covenant. Exodus 31:13, Isaiah 1:12-15, Colossians 2:11-17

Genesis 17:13
He who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money must be circumcised, and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Come out of the old covenant into the new covenant; Jesus is there waiting for you.

Hebrews 8:13
In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

I will never believe that God wants us to disobey Him and His Testimony Exo31:18, and instead bow to the authority of the catholic church. None of these quotes you posted say what you're claiming, in fact its the opposite. Jesus told mankind to live by what God said, not man. My faith is in Jesus Christ, no mediator needed. 1 Tim2:5 when a church speaks as if they have all the authority, all emphasis on them, it really sounds like the one we are warned about in Scripture who thought to change God's times and laws. Dan7:25 Our only safeguard is God's Word and having the faith of Jesus Christ, which is how He lived what He taught. Jesus said many would come in His name to deceive us, and if it goes away from the word of God, its danger Isa8:20 So I guess God will sort this out in His time and I pray it will be soon. I wish you the best but I am going to agree to disagree.

Jar0fClay · Sunday at 5:55 PM

Jan001 said:
God already did.
His son, Jesus Christ, founded a church and appointed its leaders to teach his gospel. They did as he commanded. They even recorded some of his teachings on parchment. They never intended for these manuscripts to replace their oral teaching tradition.

Matthew 28:18-20, Matthew 16:15-19, Matthew 18:15-19

Mercy Shown · Sunday at 10:22 PM

BobRyan said:
Deut 5 says "He spoke the Ten words and added no more"
Eph 6:1-2 says "the first commandment with a promise is Honor your father and mother" (this is only true inside the TEN
Jer 31:31-34 the New Covenant writes God's Law on the heart. The law that includes the TEN that Deut 5 says "God spoke these ten words and added NO More"

Matt 19 when Jesus is asked about the commandments He quotes from the TEN. So also does Paul in Rom 7 so also does James in James 2.

The Temple in Jerusalem was still up and running all the time that Paul was writing and they held that God directed that only the TEN be kept inside the ark of the covenant in that temple.

The Ten are not the only moral laws , but they are the ones specifically singled out not just in Old and New testament but ALSO in "Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19, "The Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19, the Catholic Dies Domini regarding the moral law of God for all mankind, Catholic Catechism on the Ten Commandments... etc

Nothing you have posted here pushes your premise past being an assumption. It also misses the mark in that there was no questioning of the moral law. The central question being discussed was whether Jesus was referring to the moral law or referring to the commands he gave his disciples. All indications point point to the latter.

Mercy Shown · Sunday at 10:26 PM

BobRyan said:
True of "Do not take God's name in vain" and "Love God with all your heart" and yet still not an argument for ignoring God's Word

Are you meaning to judge others?

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