Evaluating Adventist Fundamental Belief 18, And Why Ellen White Matters to Seventh-day Adventist Theology.

tall73 · Saturday at 9:51 AM

In their Fundamental Beliefs Adventists describe their understanding of the remnant church.

The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. This remnant announces the arrival of the judgment hour, proclaims salvation through Christ, and heralds the approach of His second advent. This proclamation is symbolized by the three angels of Revelation 14; it coincides with the work of judgment in heaven and results in a work of repentance and reform on earth. Every believer is called to have a personal part in this worldwide witness. (Dan. 7:9-14; Isa. 1:9; 11:11; Jer. 23:3; Mic. 2:12; 2 Cor. 5:10; 1 Peter 1:16-19; 4:17; 2 Peter 3:10-14; Jude 3, 14; Rev. 12:17; 14:6-12; 18:1-4.) Adventist Fundamental Belief 13, The Remnant and Its Mission https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf

The traditional Seventh-day Adventist vow 13, from the Church Manual, elaborates on this Remnant church concept, and includes the idea that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant of Bible prophecy, as they see themselves pictured in Revelation.

13. Do you accept and believe that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy and that people of every nation, race, and language are invited and accepted into its fellowship? Do you desire to be a member of this local congregation of the world Church? https://gc.adventist.org/wp-content...th-day_Adventist_Church_Manual-2025-10-13.pdf

Ellen White explains in the Great Controversy how the SDA remnant theology views other churches:

Babylon is said to be "the mother of harlots." By her daughters must be symbolized churches that cling to her doctrines and traditions, and follow her example of sacrificing the truth and the approval of God, in order to form an unlawful alliance with the world. The message of Revelation 14, announcing the fall of Babylon must apply to religious bodies that were once pure and have become corrupt. Since this message follows the warning of the judgment, it must be given in the last days; therefore it cannot refer to the Roman Church alone, for that church has been in a fallen condition for many centuries. Furthermore, in the eighteenth chapter of the Revelation the people of God are called upon to come out of Babylon. According to this scripture, many of God's people must still be in Babylon. And in what religious bodies are the greater part of the followers of Christ now to be found? Without doubt, in the various churches professing the Protestant faith. The Great Controversy, by Ellen G. White. Chapter 21: A Warning Rejected

As you can see, Rome is the harlot, and protestant churches her daughters. Babylon is made up of now corrupt religious bodies.

So there could be people of God in those churches. But once they hear the last day message, they must leave Babylon and join the remnant, or else they are no longer following God.

Ellen White is tied to the remnant theology and identity in the Seventh-day Adventist Fundamental Belief number 18

The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Num. 12:6; 2 Chron. 20:20; Amos 3:7; Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10; 22:8, 9.) Seventh-day Adventist Fundamental Belief 18 The Gift of Prophecy

The gift of prophecy is an "identifying mark" of the remnant church, and Ellen White is an example.

Note the texts listed for support of this doctrine.

Revelation 12:17

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (KJV)

Revelation 19:10

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. (KJV)

The inspiration of the writings of Ellen White are therefore tied to Adventist identity. If she contradicts Scripture, or fails to meet any other test of a prophet, the remnant theology loses one support. Adventists will usually NOT claim the Spirit of prophecy is limited to Ellen White. But she is the example held up for verification of their identity in their fundamental beliefs.

I do not consider Ellen White's writings to be inspired. Here are some issues I see where she contradicts Scripture so you can compare for yourself. I have selected some specific, easier to see examples. I disagree with larger points as well such as the Adventist investigative judgment, which Ellen White upheld, and which is at the center of Adventist theology, but those are broader conversations. These are selected for ease of understanding.

Ellen White: In "William Miller's message of Jesus coming in 1843 was "heavenly"" Ellen White says that Miller's message, which predicted Jesus' second coming 1n 1843, and later 1844 was "truth" despite it having already failed to happen. More importantly, Miller's message contradicted Scriptures cautioning against date setting for the Second Coming. But Ellen White says God judged those who rejected Millers message.

Ellen White: William Miller's message of Jesus coming in 1843 was "heavenly".

William Miller, who started the Millerite movement, preached that Jesus' second coming would occur around 1843. Jesus did not return in 1843. Then the Millerites revised it to 1844. Jesus did not return in 1844. Eventually the Millerite movement settled on the date of Oct. 22, 1844. Jesus did...

www.christianforums.com

In the thread "Meat eating weakens moral powers" we examine Ellen White's claims that God didn't want Israel to eat a flesh diet, as it would weaken moral powers by examining relevant Scriptures.

Ellen White: Meat eating weakens moral powers

Over two years ago there was a thread looking at statements by Ellen White regarding the Israelite diet. This thread is a more focused part 2, looking at one aspect--the claim that meat eating weaken's moral powers. Here are the statements: The Signs of the Times, January 6, 1876, Art. A...

www.christianforums.com

Bible vs. Ellen White--Zoar spared or consumed?

Ellen White said that God destroyed the town of Zoar shortly after the destruction of Sodom: Lot dwelt but a short time in Zoar. Iniquity prevailed there as in Sodom, and he feared to remain, lest the city should be destroyed. Not long after, Zoar was consumed, as God had purposed. {PP 167.3}...

www.christianforums.com

Other Ellen White threads:

Ellen White--Jesus could have failed, lost His "eternal existence"

Ellen White, who Adventists in their official beliefs claim is inspired, says the following (feel free to read the context, as much as you want): Never can the cost of our redemption be realized until the redeemed shall stand with the Redeemer before the throne of God. Then as the glories of...

www.christianforums.com

Adventist: amalgamation in CERTAIN races of men.

Ellen White, Seventh-day Adventist prophet, wrote the following fascinating comments in the book Spiritual Gifts Volume 3. But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the...

www.christianforums.com

Ellen White Statements on photographs

Ellen White on photographs

There have been a lot of interesting topics related to Seventh-day Adventistm lately in this section. Many non-Adventist are not aware that Ellen White wrote a tremendous amount of material, often touching on a wide variety of topics. This is looking at some of her writing on Photographs...

www.christianforums.com

Be sure to look up context! Read the whole book or periodical or letter that the quote came from. If you want, you can read all of Ellen White's writings! However, it does take a little while. So that you can see what that would entail:

You can find any Ellen White writing here for free, and search her writings by key words:

https://m.egwwritings.org/en

tall73 · Saturday at 9:51 AM

The next several posts will contain additional information about Ellen White and her writings:

The General Conference Session of Seventh-day Adventists has voted to endorse Ellen White's writings at various times. Here are a couple from fairly recent times:

As delegates to the 2022 General Conference Session in St Louis, Missouri, we express our deep gratitude for God’s prophetic guidance of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Aiming to live “by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God” (Matt 4:4, NKJV; cf. Luke 10:16), we take seriously the biblical passages that teach the abiding nature of the gift of prophecy (Rom 12:6 ; 1 Cor 12:10,28; Eph 4:11-14) and promise its end-time manifestation (Joel 2:28-31; Rev 12:14; 19:10, 22:9). We recognise the gift of prophecy in the life and ministry of Ellen G White (1827-1915).

We believe that the writings of Ellen G White were inspired by the Holy Spirit and are Christ centred and Bible based. Rather than replacing Scripture, they uplift its normative character, safeguard the church from "every wind of doctrine" (Eph 4:14), and offer an inspired guide to Bible passages without exhausting their meaning or preventing further study. They also help us to overcome the human tendency to accept from the Bible what we like and to distort or disregard what we do not like.

We commit ourselves to prayerfully study the writings of Ellen G White with hearts willing to follow the councils and instructions found therein. Whether individually, in the family, in small groups, in the classroom, or in the church, we believe that the study of her writings bring us closer to God and His infallible Word–the Scriptures–providing us a transforming in faith-uplifting experience.

We rejoice in the Lord for what has already been accomplished in the global and local circulation of the writings of Ellen G White in both printed and electronic format, including egwwritings.org and related apps. We encourage the continued development of both worldwide and local strategies to foster the circulation and study of her writings in as many languages as possible. The study of these writings is a powerful means to strengthen and prepare God's people to face the challenges of these last days as we approach Christ's soon return.https://adventist.news/news/what-actually-happened-at-gc-session-voting-on-statements-on-the-holy-bible-and-ellen-g-white

As delegates to the 2015 General Conference Session in San Antonio, Texas, we express our deep gratitude to God for the continuing presence of the various spiritual gifts among His people (1 Cor 12:4-11; Eph 4:11-14), and particularly for the prophetic guidance we have received through the life and ministry of Ellen G White (1827-1915).

On the centennial of her death, we rejoice that her writings have been made available around the globe in many languages and in a variety of printed and electronic formats.

We reaffirm our conviction that her writings are divinely inspired, truly Christ-centered, and Bible-based. Rather than replacing the Bible, they uplift the normative character of Scripture and correct inaccurate interpretations of it derived from tradition, human reason, personal experience, and modern culture.

We commit ourselves to study the writings of Ellen G White prayerfully and with hearts willing to follow the counsels and instructions we find there. Whether individually, in the family, in small groups, in the classroom, or in the church, a combined study of the Bible and her writings provide a transforming and faith-uplifting experience. We encourage the continued development of both worldwide and local strategies to foster the circulation of her writings inside and outside the church. The study of these writings is a powerful means to strengthen and prepare His people for the glorious appearing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Statement of Confidence in the Writings of Ellen G White - General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

As delegates to the 2015 General Conference Session in San Antonio, Texas, we express our deep gratitude to God for the continuing presence of the various

gc.adventist.org

tall73 · Saturday at 9:52 AM

This is how Ellen White described her role:

Some have stumbled over the fact that I said I did not claim to be a prophet and they have asked, Why is this?

I have had no claims to make, only that I am instructed that I am the Lord's messenger; that he called me in my youth to be his messenger, to receive his word, and to give a clear and decided message in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Early in my youth I was asked several times, Are you a prophet? I have ever responded, I am the Lord's messenger. I know that many have called me a prophet, but I have made no claim to this title. My Saviour declared me to be his messenger. "Your work," he instructed me, "is to bear my word. Strange things will arise, and in your youth I set you apart to bear the message to the erring ones, to carry the word before unbelievers, and with pen and voice to reprove from the Word actions that are not right. Exhort from the Word. I will make my Word open to you. It shall not be as a strange language. In the true eloquence of simplicity, with voice and pen, the messages that I give shall be heard from one who has never learned in the schools. My Spirit and my power shall be with you.

"Be not afraid of man, for my shield shall protect you. It is not you that speaketh: it is the Lord that giveth the messages of warning and reproof. Never deviate from the truth under any circumstances. Give the light I shall give you. The messages for these last days shall be written in books, and shall stand immortalized, to testify against those who have once rejoiced in the light, but who have been led to give it up because of the seductive influences of evil."

Why have I not claimed to be a prophet?--Because in these days many who boldly claim that they are prophets are a reproach to the cause of Christ; and because my work includes much more than the word "prophet" signifies. {RH, July 26, 1906}

Ellen White made rather broad claims about her writings:

"In these letters which I wrote, in the Testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper, expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision -- the precious rays of light shining from the throne," is correct. It is true concerning the articles in our papers and in the many volumes of my books. I have been instructed in accordance with the Word in the precepts of the law of God. I have been instructed in selecting from the lessons of Christ. {RH, September 6, 1906 par. 1}

You might say that this communication was only a letter. Yes, it was a letter, but prompted by the Spirit of God, to bring before your minds things that had been shown me. In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me.
{5T 67.2}

In the above statements her articles in the papers, books, and testimonies--letters sent to people with a message, are all claimed to be inspired.

Yet now when I send you a testimony of warning and reproof, many of you declare it to be merely the opinion of Sister White. You have thereby insulted the Spirit of God. Testimonies volume 5 page 64

And now, brethren, I entreat you not to interpose between me and the people, and turn away the light which God would have come to them. Do not by your criticisms take out all the force, all the point and power, from the Testimonies. Do not feel that you can dissect them to suit your own ideas, claiming that God has given you ability to discern what is light from heaven and what is the expression of mere human wisdom. If the Testimonies speak not according to the Word of God, reject them.
Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 691. {3SM 46.3}

There are some writings she says were not inspired:

But there are times when common things must be stated, common thoughts must occupy the mind, common letters must be written and information given that has passed from one to another of the workers. Such words, such information, are not given under the special inspiration of the Spirit of God. Questions are asked at times that are not upon religious subjects at all, and these questions must be answered. We converse about houses and lands, trades to be made, and locations for our institutions, their advantages and disadvantages. 1 SM 39.3

tall73 · Saturday at 9:52 AM

Some other statements by Ellen White about her writings:

The Lord desires you to study your Bibles. He has not given any additional light to take the place of His Word. This light is to bring confused minds to His Word which, if eaten and digested, is as the life-blood of the soul. Then good works will be seen as light shining in darkness. Letters and Manuscripts Volume 16 16LtMs, Lt 130, 1901, par. 1

You are not familiar with the Scriptures. If you had made God's Word your study, with a desire to reach the Bible standard and attain to Christian perfection, you would not have needed the Testimonies. It is because you have neglected to acquaint yourselves with God's inspired Book that He has sought to reach you by simple, direct testimonies, calling your attention to the words of inspiration which you had neglected to obey, and urging you to fashion your lives in accordance with its pure and elevated teachings.
Testimonies for the Church page 92 CCH 92.5

In public labor do not make prominent, and quote, that which Sister White has written, as authority to sustain your positions. To do this will not increase faith in the testimonies. Bring your evidences, clear and plain, from the Word of God. A “Thus saith the Lord,” is the strongest testimony you can possibly present to the people. Let none be educated to look to Sister White, but to the mighty God, who gives instruction to Sister White. The words given through the Holy Spirit, the Word of God, should be authority, and let all be educated to look to the divine Teacher. Attract minds to Jesus and His words. 9LtMs, Lt 11, 1894, par. 4

But I do not ask you to take my words. Lay Sister White to one side. Do not quote my words again as long as you live until you can obey the Bible. When you make the Bible your food, your meat and your drink, when you make its principles the elements of your character, you will know better how to receive counsel from God. I exalt the precious Word before you today. Do not repeat what I have said, saying, “Sister White said this,” and “Sister White said that.” Find out what the Lord God of Israel says, and then do what He commands. Letters and Manuscripts Volume 16 16LtMs, Ms 43, 1901, par. 26

tall73 · Saturday at 9:52 AM

Testimonies Volume 4:

The volumes of Spirit of Prophecy, and also the Testimonies, should be introduced into every Sabbathkeeping family, and the brethren should know their value and be urged to read them. It was not the wisest plan to place these books at a low figure and have only one set in a church. They should be in the library of every family and read again and again. Let them be kept where they can be read by many, and let them be worn out in being read by all the neighbors. 4T 390.3

There should be evening readings, in which one should read aloud to those assembled at the winter fireside. There is but little interest manifested to make the most of the light given of God. Much of it is concerning family duties, and instruction is given to meet almost every case and circumstance. Money will be expended for tea, coffee, ribbons, ruffles, and trimmings, and much time and labor spent in preparing the apparel, while the inward work of the heart is neglected. God has caused precious light to be brought out in publications, and these should be owned and read by every family. Parents, your children are in danger of going contrary to the light given of heaven, and you should both purchase and read the books, for they will be a blessing to you and yours. You should lend Spirit of Prophecy to your neighbors and prevail upon them to buy copies for themselves. Missionaries for God, you should be earnest, active, vigorous workers. 4T 390.4

Many are going directly contrary to the light which God has given to His people, because they do not read the books which contain the light and knowledge in cautions, reproofs, and warnings. The cares of the world, the love of fashion, and the lack of religion have turned the attention from the light God has so graciously given, while books and periodicals containing error are traveling all over the country. Skepticism and infidelity are increasing everywhere. Light so precious, coming from the throne of God, is hid under a bushel. God will make His people responsible for this neglect. An account must be rendered to Him for every ray of light He has let shine upon our pathway, whether it has been improved to our advancement in divine things or rejected because it was more agreeable to follow inclination. 4T 391.1

tall73 · Saturday at 9:53 AM

In the last vision given at Battle Creek I was shown that an unwise course was taken at ----- in regard to the visions at the time of the organization of the church there. There were some in ----- who were God’s children, and yet doubted the visions. Others had no opposition, yet dared not take a decided stand in regard to them. Some were skeptical, and they had sufficient cause to make them so. The false visions and fanatical exercises, and the wretched fruits following, had an influence upon the cause in Wisconsin to make minds jealous of everything bearing the name of visions. All these things should have been taken into consideration, and wisdom exercised. There should be no trial or labor with those who have never seen the individual having visions, and who have had no personal knowledge of the influence of the visions. Such should not be deprived of the benefits and privileges of the church, if their Christian course is otherwise correct, and they have formed a good Christian character.

Some, I was shown, could receive the published visions, judging of the tree by its fruits. Others are like doubting Thomas; they cannot believe the published Testimonies, nor receive evidence through the
testimony of others; but must see and have the evidence for themselves. Such must not be set aside, but long patience and brotherly love should be exercised toward them until they find their position and become established for or against. If they fight against the visions, of which they have no knowledge; if they carry their opposition so far as to oppose that in which they have had no experience, and feel annoyed when those who believe that the visions are of God speak of them in meeting, and comfort themselves with the instruction given through vision, the church may know that they are not right. God’s people should not cringe and yield, and give up their liberty to such disaffected ones. God has placed the gifts in the church that the church may be benefited by them; and when professed believers in the truth oppose these gifts, and fight against the visions, souls are in danger through their influence, and it is time then to labor with them, that the weak may not be led astray by their
influence. It has been very hard for the servants of God to labor in -----, for there has been a class of self-righteous, talkative, unruly ones there, who have stood in the way of the work of God. If received into the church, they would tear it to pieces. They would not be subject to the body, and would never be satisfied unless the reins of church government were in their own hands. Brother G sought to move with great caution. He knew that the class who opposed the visions were wrong, that they were not genuine believers in the truth; and therefore, to shake off these clogs, he proposed to receive none into the church who did not believe the third angel’s message and the visions. This kept out some few precious souls who had not fought against the visions. They dared not unite with the church, fearing that they should commit themselves upon that which they did not understand and fully believe. From Testimonies for the Church Volume 1 327

tall73 · Saturday at 9:53 AM

Testimonies Volume 4, pg 211,

It is Satan's plan to weaken the faith of God's people in the Testimonies. Next follows skepticism in regard to the vital points of our faith, the pillars of our position, then doubt as to the Holy Scriptures, and then the downward march to perdition. When the Testimonies, which were once believed, are doubted and given up, Satan knows the deceived ones will not stop at this; and he redoubles his efforts till he launches them into open rebellion, which becomes incurable and ends in destruction.

It is not alone those who openly reject the Testimonies, or who cherish doubt concerning them, that are on dangerous ground. To disregard light is to reject it. {5T 680.2}

Let ministers and people remember that gospel truth hardens when it does not save. The rejection of light leaves men captives, bound about by chains of darkness and unbelief. "The soul that refuses to listen to the invitations of mercy from day to day can soon listen to the most urgent appeals without an emotion stirring his soul. As laborers with God we need more fervent piety and less self-exaltation. The more self is exalted, the more will faith in the Testimonies of the Spirit of God be lessened. Testimonies Volume 5 134

We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while the Scriptures are God's word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar from the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God. First Selected Messages, pg 161

Freth · Saturday at 10:40 AM

The official Adventist website clarifies what is meant by claiming to be "the remnant church of end time Bible prophecy". I welcome the reader to come to their own conclusions based on what these official statements say.

I would also point out the fact that we don't need Ellen G. White's writings whatsoever. We can prove by scripture alone what the definition of the remnant actually is. In fact, the Biblical concept is so easy to understand we can do it with one verse.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

This statement leaves no doubt what end time issue in Christendom is. So profound and so simple is the statement that it boggles the mind how so many can dismiss it outright, or worse, ignore it.

I see a lot of threads about Ellen G. White, and a lot of personal opinion, but little to no scriptural exposition. Even when challenged with scriptural proof, the threads are led in circles in an attempt to divert from the truth. I see it as an exercise in futility.

The thing about the truth is it can be suppressed for a time, but the truth always comes out. It can't be stopped.

I would caution the reader to prayerfully read the Bible and use it as your standard of truth.

tall73 · Saturday at 11:20 AM

Freth said:
The official Adventist website clarifies what is meant by claiming to be "the remnant church of end time Bible prophecy". I welcome the reader to come to their own conclusions based on what these official statements say.

Mission Statement of the Seventh-day Adventist Church

Understanding the Remnant in the Bible

Yes, they should!

Freth said:
I would also point out the fact that we don't need Ellen G. White's writings whatsoever.

So why include her in the fundamental beliefs, as an example of the identifying mark?

Freth said:
I see a lot of threads about Ellen G. White, and a lot of personal opinion, but little to no scriptural exposition.

You probably ought to look around more then. I have seen thousands of pages of Scripture discussion on various Adventist topics since I have been here.

But we talk about Ellen White too. If Adventists didn't claim Ellen White was a prophet, we probably wouldn't talk about her at all.

Freth said:
Even when challenged with scriptural proof, the threads are led in circles in an attempt to divert from the truth. I see it as an exercise in futility.

Testing prophets is scriptural.

And Ellen White even tells us to:

And now, brethren, I entreat you not to interpose between me and the people, and turn away the light which God would have come to them. Do not by your criticisms take out all the force, all the point and power, from the Testimonies. Do not feel that you can dissect them to suit your own ideas, claiming that God has given you ability to discern what is light from heaven and what is the expression of mere human wisdom. If the Testimonies speak not according to the Word of God, reject them.

Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 691. {3SM 46.3}

Freth said:
The thing about the truth is it can be suppressed for a time, but the truth always comes out. It can't be stopped.

Exactly! Which is why we want people to examine Ellen White. This should be a win-win. More people evaluating the one you claim is inspired.

Freth said:
I would caution the reader to prayerfully read the Bible and use it as your standard of truth.

I would too! To quote Ellen White:

If the Testimonies speak not according to the Word of God, reject them. Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 691. {3SM 46.3}

reddogs · Saturday at 4:13 PM

tall73 said:
In their Fundamental Beliefs Adventists describe their understanding of the remnant church.

The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. This remnant announces the arrival of the judgment hour, proclaims salvation through Christ, and heralds the approach of His second advent. This proclamation is symbolized by the three angels of Revelation 14; it coincides with the work of judgment in heaven and results in a work of repentance and reform on earth. Every believer is called to have a personal part in this worldwide witness. (Dan. 7:9-14; Isa. 1:9; 11:11; Jer. 23:3; Mic. 2:12; 2 Cor. 5:10; 1 Peter 1:16-19; 4:17; 2 Peter 3:10-14; Jude 3, 14; Rev. 12:17; 14:6-12; 18:1-4.) Adventist Fundamental Belief 13, The Remnant and Its Mission https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf

The traditional Seventh-day Adventist vow 13, from the Church Manual, elaborates on this Remnant church concept, and includes the idea that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant of Bible prophecy, as they see themselves pictured in Revelation.

13. Do you accept and believe that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy and that people of every nation, race, and language are invited and accepted into its fellowship? Do you desire to be a member of this local congregation of the world Church? https://gc.adventist.org/wp-content...th-day_Adventist_Church_Manual-2025-10-13.pdf

Ellen White explains in the Great Controversy how the SDA remnant theology views other churches:

Babylon is said to be "the mother of harlots." By her daughters must be symbolized churches that cling to her doctrines and traditions, and follow her example of sacrificing the truth and the approval of God, in order to form an unlawful alliance with the world. The message of Revelation 14, announcing the fall of Babylon must apply to religious bodies that were once pure and have become corrupt. Since this message follows the warning of the judgment, it must be given in the last days; therefore it cannot refer to the Roman Church alone, for that church has been in a fallen condition for many centuries. Furthermore, in the eighteenth chapter of the Revelation the people of God are called upon to come out of Babylon. According to this scripture, many of God's people must still be in Babylon. And in what religious bodies are the greater part of the followers of Christ now to be found? Without doubt, in the various churches professing the Protestant faith. The Great Controversy, by Ellen G. White. Chapter 21: A Warning Rejected

As you can see, Rome is the harlot, and protestant churches her daughters. Babylon is made up of now corrupt religious bodies.

So there could be people of God in those churches. But once they hear the last day message, they must leave Babylon and join the remnant, or else they are no longer following God.

Ellen White is tied to the remnant theology and identity in the Seventh-day Adventist Fundamental Belief number 18

The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Num. 12:6; 2 Chron. 20:20; Amos 3:7; Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10; 22:8, 9.) Seventh-day Adventist Fundamental Belief 18 The Gift of Prophecy

The gift of prophecy is an "identifying mark" of the remnant church, and Ellen White is an example.

Note the texts listed for support of this doctrine.

Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (KJV)

Revelation 19:10
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. (KJV)

The inspiration of the writings of Ellen White are therefore tied to Adventist identity. If she contradicts Scripture, or fails to meet any other test of a prophet, the remnant theology loses one support. Adventists will usually NOT claim the Spirit of prophecy is limited to Ellen White. But she is the example held up for verification of their identity in their fundamental beliefs.

I do not consider Ellen White's writings to be inspired. Here are some issues I see where she contradicts Scripture so you can compare for yourself. I have selected some specific, easier to see examples. I disagree with larger points as well such as the Adventist investigative judgment, which Ellen White upheld, and which is at the center of Adventist theology, but those are broader conversations. These are selected for ease of understanding.

Ellen White: In "William Miller's message of Jesus coming in 1843 was "heavenly"" Ellen White says that Miller's message, which predicted Jesus' second coming 1n 1843, and later 1844 was "truth" despite it having already failed to happen. More importantly, Miller's message contradicted Scriptures cautioning against date setting for the Second Coming. But Ellen White says God judged those who rejected Millers message.

Ellen White: William Miller's message of Jesus coming in 1843 was "heavenly".

William Miller, who started the Millerite movement, preached that Jesus' second coming would occur around 1843. Jesus did not return in 1843. Then the Millerites revised it to 1844. Jesus did not return in 1844. Eventually the Millerite movement settled on the date of Oct. 22, 1844. Jesus did...

www.christianforums.com

In the thread "Meat eating weakens moral powers" we examine Ellen White's claims that God didn't want Israel to eat a flesh diet, as it would weaken moral powers by examining relevant Scriptures.

Ellen White: Meat eating weakens moral powers

Over two years ago there was a thread looking at statements by Ellen White regarding the Israelite diet. This thread is a more focused part 2, looking at one aspect--the claim that meat eating weaken's moral powers. Here are the statements: The Signs of the Times, January 6, 1876, Art. A...

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Bible vs. Ellen White--Zoar spared or consumed?

Bible vs. Ellen White--Zoar spared or consumed?

Ellen White said that God destroyed the town of Zoar shortly after the destruction of Sodom: Lot dwelt but a short time in Zoar. Iniquity prevailed there as in Sodom, and he feared to remain, lest the city should be destroyed. Not long after, Zoar was consumed, as God had purposed. {PP 167.3}...

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Other Ellen White threads:

Ellen White--Jesus could have failed, lost His "eternal existence"

Ellen White--Jesus could have failed, lost His "eternal existence"

Ellen White, who Adventists in their official beliefs claim is inspired, says the following (feel free to read the context, as much as you want): Never can the cost of our redemption be realized until the redeemed shall stand with the Redeemer before the throne of God. Then as the glories of...

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Adventist: amalgamation in CERTAIN races of men.

Adventist: amalgamation in CERTAIN races of men.

Ellen White, Seventh-day Adventist prophet, wrote the following fascinating comments in the book Spiritual Gifts Volume 3. But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the...

www.christianforums.com

Ellen White Statements on photographs

Ellen White on photographs

There have been a lot of interesting topics related to Seventh-day Adventistm lately in this section. Many non-Adventist are not aware that Ellen White wrote a tremendous amount of material, often touching on a wide variety of topics. This is looking at some of her writing on Photographs...

www.christianforums.com

Be sure to look up context! Read the whole book or periodical or letter that the quote came from. If you want, you can read all of Ellen White's writings! However, it does take a little while. So that you can see what that would entail:

You can find any Ellen White writing here for free, and search her writings by key words:

https://m.egwwritings.org/en

Look and see what church teaches to fully keep the Commandments written with the finger of God, and the fullness of truth beyond what the churches of the Reformation, and the Christian core belief of a actual return of Christ at the Second Coming to take the believers to heaven, to say nothing of what Jesus taught, and you will search and not find in what we have today..

reddogs · Saturday at 4:23 PM

tall73 said:
The next several posts will contain additional information about Ellen White and her writings:

The General Conference Session of Seventh-day Adventists has voted to endorse Ellen White's writings at various times. Here are a couple from fairly recent times:

As delegates to the 2022 General Conference Session in St Louis, Missouri, we express our deep gratitude for God’s prophetic guidance of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Statement of Confidence in the Writings of Ellen G White - General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

As delegates to the 2015 General Conference Session in San Antonio, Texas, we express our deep gratitude to God for the continuing presence of the various

gc.adventist.org

The same can be said for any of the Reformation leaders and no one would say anything. Now on the question of her influence, you might like to go over this interesting study on whether she had a hand on the early formation of beliefs.

"Ellen G. White and Seventh-day Adventist Doctrines:
Her role in the development of distinctive beliefs

Denis Fortin

(This lecture outline is adapted from Roger W. Coon's lecture outline, "Ellen G. White and SDA Doctrine-Part I: God's FIRST Priority in the First 20 Years," April 18, 1995.)

Introduction: Ellen White and Seventh-day Adventist Doctrines

1. Contemporary questions concerning the existence and nature of Ellen G. White's doctrinal and prophetic "authority" continue to be raised:

a. Before this subject can fruitfully be addressed, however, one must first consider:

(1) How, where, and in what manner Seventh-day Adventist doctrines originated.

(2) The role of the Holy Spirit, through Ellen White, in that process.

2. Many Seventh-day Adventists generally suspects that Seventh-day Adventist doctrines find their genesis in the visions of Ellen White.

a. Typical of non-SDA opinion is that of G. H. Shriver, author of the article on "Seventh-day Adventism" in the Abingdon Dictionary of Living Religions (1981):

(1) "The source of authority for belief is the Bible, but the writings of Ellen White are held in such high esteem that for all practical purposes it is the Bible as interpreted by Ellen White" (p. 672).

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3. Many are quite surprised (and even relieved!) upon learning that her visions are not the source of our doctrinal beliefs.

a. This is not to say that she did not have a role to play in the process--for she did.

b. But her role in doctrinal formation before 1850 was significantly different from that of after 1850.

4. Her role before 1850, before the doctrines were basically established, was largely to serve as a channel through which God, in a supernatural manner, directly corrected some errors or confusion in doctrines, and confirmed truth through her to the believers concerning that which He wanted them to know.

5. Her role after 1850, after the doctrines had been basically established, may be summarized as follows:

a. She explains, clarifies, amplifies meaning (and sometimes even defines):

(1) Sometimes exegetically.

(2) More often homiletically.

b. She interprets prophetic symbols.

c. She shows inter-relationships between various passages of Scripture (that we might not otherwise link together).

d. She provides extra-biblical (though not anti-biblical) detail.

e. She does not "exhaust" the meaning of Scripture:

(1) Her position on the meaning of a text does not, necessarily, preclude other positions--if they are non-contradictory (see "The inspiration and authority of the Ellen G. White writings," Ministry, August 1982.)

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f. Yet, she often refused to read other doctrinal material in order that she may not be influenced by what others wrote.

"I have not been in the habit of reading any doctrinal articles in the paper [i.e. Review and Herald], that my mind should not have any understanding of any one's ideas and views, and that not a mold of any man's theories should have any connection with that which I write." (Letter 37, 1887, to A.T. Jones and E.J. Waggoner, February 18, 1887.)

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I. Why doctrinal formation had to be the first priority in the 1840s

The ex-Millerites had to develop their position for two cogent reasons after October 22, 1844:

a. They had no message.

b. They had no audience.

A. The Ex-Millerites had NO MESSAGE After October 22, 1844

1. William Miller had had a message during the Second Advent Movement of the 1840s. This message was simple, basically evangelical, concise, and demanded a decision of its listeners. Its content included

a. A specific event: Jesus is coming back to earth, the righteous will be saved and taken to glory, and the earth ("sanctuary") will be "cleansed" by fire.
b. A specific time : at first "About 1843", later the Autumn 1844, and then October 22, 1844.

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2. After October 22, the ex-Millerites were:

a. Disappointed, hurt, dispirited, disheartened.
b. Totally lacking in energy for further public labor.
c. Confused, theologically, in their thinking.

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3. A substantial amount of time would be required before some ex-Millerites (those who would become the pioneers of the Seventh-day Adventist church) would develop understanding in three theological categories:

a. The Disappointment:
The continuing study of the newly developing ideas regarding the heavenly sanctuary and Christ's priesthood would eventually clarify that their date was right, but their event was wrong.
b. The 3rd Angel's message:
The continuing study of the new doctrine of the Sabbath would gradually lead them to an understanding and eschatological interpretation of the "beast," "image," and "mark" of Rev. 13 and 14. The Sabbath would unlock the mystery of the 3rd Angel's message.
c. The need for further evangelism:
Initially, many Millerites (including Miller) believed that probation had closed on October 22 for all non-Millerites (the "shut door" issue). It would take years of study and reflection before they came to understand that the probationary "door" was shut only for some on October 22.

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4. Before these ex-Millerites could hope to go out with any degree of effective preaching, they must first have a new message; and before they could hope to achieve that, they faced a threefold task:

a. Slow, painstaking Bible study to penetrate the uncertainties which shrouded them, and to apprehend fully and further the inter-relationships between various doctrines - a body of truth had to be fitted together.

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b. Understanding the threefold work of the Holy Spirit through Ellen G. White's visions:

To confirm Biblically-correct conclusions arrived at through prayer, diligent study of the Word, and fasting.
To correct, when they were wrong.
To suggest new initiatives, new directions, for further fruitful discovery, when at an impasse.

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c. The writing out and publishing of conclusions reached from their Bible study:

Bates with his Sabbath tracts, pamphlets, books.
Edson-Crosier-Hahn, with their sanctuary position.
James White on various doctrines, in his Present Truth and Review and Herald.

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5. And it was not until December 13, 1850, that EGW could finally write: "We know [now] that we have the truth" (Lt 30, 1850).

B. The Ex-Millerites Had NO AUDIENCE After Oct. 22, 1844

1. The disappointed Millerites were not at all ready to receive any message, even from within their own ranks, initially.

a. Most were totally preoccupied with managing very strong emotional feelings: crushing disappointment, acute social embarrassment, anger at God, for "misleading" or "deceiving" them, and distrust of their own reasoning powers and processes.
b. They were now very wary and determined, above all, never again to be so "duped," and "taken in."
c. Some went into wild fanaticism, strange "experiences," and false doctrines (including setting new dates for the Second Advent).

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2. The rejecters of Miller's message, initially, were unapproachable after October 22:

a. The non-appearance of Jesus on October 22 served only to confirm and reinforce their unbelief or disbelief.
b. Their scorn and ridicule for the ex-Millerites now only increased.
c. The public, for several years, was totally unprepared to consider any revision of Millerite thinking with an attitude even approaching serious, respectful consideration.

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3. The Millerites, first, had to "get their act together."

II. Joseph Bates' Theological Contributions to Sabbatarian Adventism

George Knight in his book Joseph Bates: The Real Founder of Seventh-day Adventism (RHPA 2004) explains how it was Joseph Bates who first articulated together the basic doctrines of early Seventh-day Adventism.
1. Bates' booklets
In August 1846, Bates published his first booklet, Seventh Day Sabbath, A Perpetual Sign. It is in his second edition published in January 1847 that for the first time "a major document linked together the Sabbath, the heavenly ministry of Christ, and the Second Advent into a theological package tied especially to Revelation 11:19 and Revelation 12:17 through the end of chapter 14" (Knight, 101). To this list of agreed doctrines among the few Adventists who formed the nucleus of what would become Seventh-day Adventism, we can also add the nonimmortality of the soul.

2. Early discussion
After the publication of Bates' second edition of Seventh Day Sabbath, Bates, James White, Hiram Edson and others began a series of discussions as they searched for the truth. It is likely this period of time that Ellen White had in mind when she wrote the following description of the events.

"Many of our people do not realize how firmly the foundation of our faith has been laid. My husband, Elder Joseph Bates, Father Pierce, Elder Edson, and others who were keen, noble, and true, were among those who, after the passing of the time in 1844, searched for the truth as for hidden treasure. I met with them, and we studied and prayed earnestly. Often we remained together until late at night, and sometimes through the entire night, praying for light and studying the word. Again and again these brethren came together to study the Bible, in order that they might know its meaning, and be prepared to teach it with power. When they came to the point in their study where they said, "We can do nothing more," the Spirit of the Lord would come upon me, I would be taken off in vision, and a clear explanation of the passages we had been studying would be given me, with instruction as to how we were to labor and teach effectively. Thus light was given that helped us to understand the scriptures in regard to Christ, His mission, and His priesthood. A line of truth extending from that time to the time when we shall enter the city of God, was made plain to me, and I gave to others the instruction that the Lord had given me.
"During this whole time I could not understand the reasoning of the brethren. My mind was locked, as it were, and I could not comprehend the meaning of the scriptures we were studying. This was one of the greatest sorrows of my life. I was in this condition of mind until all the principal points of our faith were made clear to our minds, in harmony with the word of God. The brethren knew that when not in vision, I could not understand these matters, and they accepted as light direct from heaven the revelations given. For two or three years my mind continued to be locked to an understanding of the Scriptures. [Special Testimonies Series B, 2, pp. 56-57]

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The only time frame that statement fits in Ellen White's life was the period from mid-1847 to late 1849 or early 1850.
But as we have seen, all the major doctrines of Sabbatarian Adventism were already basically put in place by Joseph Bates in January 1847.
Then, what could have been Ellen White's role in the development of Seventh-day Adventist fundamental doctrines during these discussions between mid-1847 and early 1850?

III. The Role of the "Sabbath/Sanctuary" Conferences

1. Historically, the term "Sabbath Conferences" refers to a series of over twenty meetings held between April, 1848, and December, 1850, usually spanning long weekends, and generally located in New York, New England and Canada East.

a. Dr. C. Mervyn Maxwell, retired professor of church history, holds, however, that they should, instead, be designated as "Sabbath/Sanctuary" Conferences, because equal emphasis was placed upon both doctrines in these meetings.

Six were held in 1848 (with James White and Ellen White believed to have attended all six).
Six were held in 1849 (with James White and Ellen White believed to have attended at least three).
Ten were held in 1850 (with James White and Ellen White believed to have attended eight).

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2. First 1848 conference was held April 20-24, 1848 in a "large, unfinished chamber," Albert Belden home, Rocky Hill, Connecticut.

Attendance: about 50.
Main speakers: James White; Joseph Bates, on law of God (2SG 93).

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3. Second 1848 conference was held in August 18, 1848 in David Arnold's barn, Volney, NY.

Attendance: 35 ("all that could be collected in that part of the state").
Attitudes: Upon arrival, "hardly any two agreed" on any theological point.
Doctrinal differences: Some held that

(1) The millennium is already in the past.
(2) The 144,000 were those raised Easter Sunday by Christ in 31 AD.
(3) The Lord's Supper should be held only once annually, since it was the NT counterpart of the Passover.
(4) Christ had already returned, spiritually.
(5) Nothing happened in 1844.

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Effect on Ellen White: she fainted, under intense emotional pressure and stress from discord; some thought her dead, but she revived. She was then taken into vision, where the Lord revealed some of the errors held by those present and God's truth, in contrast with those errors.
Upon departure: unity of understanding prevailed ("Our meeting ended victoriously. Truth gained the victory." 2SG 96-99).

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4. Remaining 1848 Conferences were held in Port Gibson, NY (August); Rocky Hill, CT (September); Topsham, ME (October); and Dorchester, MA (November).

5. What produced the remarkable transformation from widespread theological disunity to Christian unity at these meetings? The activities of the participants--almost non-stop, and sometimes all night long:

a. Prayer for guidance and understanding ("so much prayer"-UL 152).
b. Hard, diligent, exhaustive Bible study ("such earnest searching of the Scriptures"-ibid.)
c. Earnest discussion.
d. Fasting.

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6. Three results from these conferences:

a. They tended to establish those already in the truth.
b. They tended to awaken many not yet fully decided for the truth.
c. Development of consensus statements on doctrinal positions.

These meetings brought general agreement among Sabbatarian Adventists (probably still numbering only several hundred) on eight doctrines:

An imminent, personal, premillennial Second Advent.
The two-apartment High-Priestly ministry of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary, whose cleansing had commenced in 1844.
The seventh-day Sabbath is biblical and binding upon Christians.
The duty to proclaim the Three Angels' Messages of Rev. 14.
Conditional immortality: death is a dreamless sleep.
The timing of the Seven Last Plagues (after the Close of Probation).
The final, complete, annihilation of the wicked at the close of the millennium.
God's special supernatural enlightenment of Ellen G. White.

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7. Role of the Holy Spirit through Ellen White in this discovery-of-truth process:

The visions tended to confirm or corroborate, when they were on the right track; or to correct, when they were on the wrong track; or to suggest new initiatives, when they were at an impasse, unable to go further.
The visions were not a substitute for hard work, study, prayer, individual initiative. Generally, Ellen White did not initiate, taking the lead as far as doctrine was concerned.
If, the early pioneer had crystallized their doctrines before the beginning of the Sabbath/Sanctuary conferences in 1848, and in fact already had an articulated Sabbatarian Adventist theology in Joseph Bates' second edition of Seventh Day Sabbath, then what contributions did Ellen White's visions make "regarding truth and duty"?
George Knight answers: "Since it was obviously not the central doctrines, her contributions must have involved points of clarification in regard to certain biblical ideas and duties. Two such contributions . . . come to mind. One concerned the meaning of the "angel ascending from the east, having the seal of God"--a point that Bates and the others had been struggling with. . . . A second item had to do with her November 1848 publishing vision in which she told her husband of his responsibility to print a little paper whose influence would eventually go clear around the world. . . . Those were the types of controversial issues that Ellen White's visions brought to closure in the period running from mid-1847 to late 1849" (Joseph Bates, p. 103; see also p. 116, 153).

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tall73 · Saturday at 5:17 PM

reddogs said:
Now on the question of her influence, you might like to go over this interesting study on whether she had a hand on the early formation of beliefs.

Who claimed she did? I am on record in a number of threads saying she did not originate the teaching on the Sabbath, which she rejected at first and came in partly from the influence of the 7th day Baptists.

Nor did she form the IJ, part of which was formulated by Crozier/Crosier after Hiram Edson's vision, and later included aspects debated during the Millerite movement regarding pre-advent judgment, which James White, etc. rejected for some time.

In fact, I have not claimed she originated any teaching, other than some elements of the health doctrine.

tall73 · Saturday at 5:18 PM

reddogs said:
Look and see what church teaches to fully keep the Commandments written with the finger of God,

And adds "written with the finger of God" to the text in question. There were a whole lot more than 10 commandments of God.

tall73 · Saturday at 5:33 PM

reddogs said:
The same can be said for any of the Reformation leaders and no one would say anything.

No I don't think the churches of the reformers would say that the writings of the reformers "offer an inspired guide to Bible passages."

reddogs · Saturday at 5:39 PM

tall73 said:
Who claimed she did? I am on record in a number of threads saying she did not originate the teaching on the Sabbath, which she rejected at first and came in partly from the influence of the 7th day Baptists.

Nor did she form the IJ, part of which was formulated by Crozier/Crosier after Hiram Edson's vision, and later included aspects debated during the Millerite movement regarding pre-advent judgment, which James White, etc. rejected for some time.

In fact, I have not claimed she originated any teaching, other than some elements of the health doctrine.

Very good..

reddogs · Saturday at 5:39 PM

tall73 said:
And adds "written with the finger of God" to the text in question. There were a whole lot more than 10 commandments of God.

Sorry tall, its in Gods Word..

Exodus 31:18
And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

reddogs · Saturday at 5:42 PM

tall73 said:
No I don't think the churches of the reformers would say that the writings of the reformers "offer an inspired guide to Bible passages."

Some of the Calvinist might disagree IMHO, but they all held very closely to their leaders being inspired and led by the divine, to say nothing of their influence on their members on Bible passages.

The Liturgist · Saturday at 5:46 PM

reddogs said:
Look and see what church teaches to fully keep the Commandments written with the finger of God, and the fullness of truth beyond what the churches of the Reformation, and the Christian core belief of a actual return of Christ at the Second Coming to take the believers to heaven, to say nothing of what Jesus taught, and you will search and not find in what we have today..

Are you saying there’s an ontological difference between the Commandments God wrote with his finger in the Torah, which include instructions outside of the Decalogue, pertaining to other things, and those things He spoke with His Mouth incarnate as Christ Jesus our Lord or through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in His prophets and disciples?

Because such a view appears to contradict 2 Timothy 3:16-17

Jesus Christ himself issued commandments following His Incarnation:

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Additionally He instructed us:

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

tall73 · Saturday at 5:47 PM

reddogs said:
Some of the Calvinist might disagree IMHO, but they all held very closely to their leaders being inspired and led by the divine, to say nothing of their influence on their members on Bible passages.

Up to you to prove that they hold the writings of the reformers as inspired. And if they did, I assume you would disagree anyway.

This thread is about testing Ellen White. You should be glad, it gives folks a chance to read her works, all of them if they want to, and make a decision.

tall73 · Saturday at 5:50 PM

The Liturgist said:
Are you saying there’s an ontological difference between the Commandments God wrote with his finger in the Torah, which include instructions outside of the Decalogue, pertaining to other things, and those things He spoke with His Mouth incarnate as Christ Jesus our Lord or through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in His prophets and disciples?

Because such a view appears to contradict 2 Timothy 3:16-17

Jesus Christ himself issued commandments following His Incarnation:

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

And if you look at how John actually uses ἐντολή you will definitely see that one come up.

Evaluating Adventist Fundamental Belief 18, And Why Ellen White Matters to Seventh-day Adventist Theology.

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