Adventist Beliefs on Biblical Signs of the End Days.

tall73 · Wednesday at 2:05 PM

Capbook2 said:
Denying Bible Lexicon definition always happen when one's interpretation wasn't mentioned or unsupported.

Since I didn't deny the definition, only applied all that they said, rather than parts of it, that wasn't a problem.

If it were "the weekly Sabbath" it would not be MODELED on "the weekly Sabbath." It would just be the "weekly Sabbath."

Capbook2 said:
The Adventist scholars were not credentialed Bible Lexicographers, understandable.

Your magical category of Bible Lexicographers is not doing much for you. They look at usage. They have all the same biases, etc. as everyone else.

And even the various ones you posted didn't say it was the sabbath, but was modeled after it, and that it was referring "neither to possession of the land nor to the Sabbath of the OT and Jewish Law. It is a purely heavenly blessing towards which the pilgrim people of God moves."

Capbook2 · Wednesday at 10:03 PM

tall73 said:
Why would you think the covenant name applied to only one person of the Trinity? We are baptized into the singular "name" of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit:

Matthew 28:19
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (ESV)

Jesus uses "I Am" to refer to Himself, relating back to Exodus 3, and Isaiah 43:10 stating, "before Abrham was, I am."

John 8:56-59
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. (ESV)

Exo 3:14 And Elohim said to Mosheh, “I am that which I am.”a And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Yisra’ěl, ‘I am has sent me to you.’ ” . Exo 3:15 And Elohim said further to Mosheh, “Thus you are to say to the children of Yisra’ěl, ‘יהוה Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Aḇraham, the Elohim of Yitsḥaq, and the Elohim of Ya‛aqoḇ, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to all generations.’ TS2009

Isa 43:10 “You are My witnesses,” declares יהוה, “And My servant whom I have chosen, so that you know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no Ěl formed, nor after Me there is none.

Isa 43:10 γένεσθέ μοι μάρτυρες, κἀγὼ μάρτυς, λέγει κύριος ὁ θεός, καὶ ὁ παῖς, ὃν ἐξελεξάμην, ἵνα γνῶτε καὶ πιστεύσητε καὶ συνῆτε ὅτι ἐγώ εἰμι, ἔμπροσθέν μου οὐκ ἐγένετο ἄλλος θεὸς καὶ μετ᾿ ἐμὲ οὐκ ἔσται·

Peter alludes to Isaiah 8:12-13, and refers to setting apart Christ, in the ESV:

Isaiah 8:12 -13
12 “Do not say, ‘A conspiracy,’ concerning all that this people call a conspiracy, nor be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.
13 “יהוה of hosts, Him you shall set apart. Let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread. TS2009

1 Peter 3:14-15
14 But even if you should suffer for righteousness’ sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled, 15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, (ESV)

The ESV follows the critical eclectic text (as represented by the SBL/UBS/NA)

1 Peter 3:14-15
14 ἀλλ’ εἰ καὶ πάσχοιτε διὰ δικαιοσύνην, μακάριοι. τὸν δὲ φόβον αὐτῶν μὴ φοβηθῆτε μηδὲ ταραχθῆτε, 15 κύριον δὲ τὸν Χριστὸν ἁγιάσατε ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν, ἕτοιμοι ἀεὶ πρὸς ἀπολογίαν παντὶ τῷ αἰτοῦντι ὑμᾶς λόγον περὶ τῆς ἐν ὑμῖν ἐλπίδος (SBL NT)

The TS2009 of 1 Peter 3:14 follows the Majority (and TR) reading:

1Peter 3:14
14 But even if you suffer for righteousness’ sake, you are blessed.a “And do not fear their threats, neither be troubled.
15 But set apart יהוה Elohim in your hearts, and always be ready to give an answer to everyone asking you a reason concerning the expectation that is in you, with meekness and fear, TS2009

1 Peter 3:14-15
14 Ἀλλ᾽ εἰ καὶ πάσχοιτε διὰ δικαιοσύνην, μακάριοι· τὸν δὲ φόβον αὐτῶν μὴ φοβηθῆτε, μηδὲ ταραχθῆτε·
15 κύριον δὲ τὸν θεὸν ἁγιάσατε ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν· ἕτοιμοι δὲ ἀεὶ πρὸς ἀπολογίαν παντὶ τῷ αἰτοῦντι ὑμᾶς λόγον περὶ τῆς ἐν ὑμῖν ἐλπίδος, μετὰ πρᾳΰτητος καὶ φόβου· (Greek NT: Byzantine Greek Unparsed Text)

And TR:

1 Peter 3:14-15
14 But even if you should suffer for righteousness’ sake, you are blessed. “And do not be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.” 15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; (NKJV)

Are you going to be consistent in your preference for the eclectic text?

I already posted this, but here it is again:

A reference to Isaiah 45:23

23 By myself I have sworn;
from my mouth has gone out in righteousness
a word that shall not return:
To me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear allegiance.’ (ESV)

And the same author in Philippians, as was pointed out, applies this to Christ directly, and notes it is to the glory of the Father that it is applied to Christ:

Philippians 2:9-11
Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (ESV)

And in the same book of Romans he shows the judgment on that day regarding the secrets of men is by God, THROUGH Christ Jesus (dia with the genitive).

Romans 2:15-16
15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. (ESV)

And also in John 5:

John 5:22-23
22 For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. (ESV)

And likewise:

Acts 10:42 (NKJV)
42 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead.

2 Timothy 4:1 (NKJV)
herefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom

Acts 17:31 (NKJV) 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

So if God judges through Christ, what is the issue? As I mentioned when you started discussion of the variant, either way the Son is judging by the ordaining of the Father.

And meanwhile you keep trying to to distinguish between judging and executing judgment. It all is done by Jesus, by the ordaining of the Father.

And we see from the texts when it happens. At His coming, before His throne.

2 Corinthians 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil. (ESV)

But you want one to be earlier, and one only the carrying out of the sentence, etc. When they all take place before the judgment seat, and you are not there yet, and won't be until Jesus returns.

Do you mean the "I" in Psalms 45:23 uttered by the Jesus?
Is it your belief that the Father and Jesus are one person?

Capbook2 · Wednesday at 10:46 PM

tall73 said:
They are all done by Jesus on the day appointed, by God's ordaining

Acts 17:31 (NKJV) 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

Yes, the Father had given Jesus the authority to execute the judgment.

In human court, which comes first, the reading of the judgment or the execution of punishment?
In God's court, due to God's foreknowledge reading was "knowing" the basis of God's judgment through man's deeds, and Jesus execute the judgement.
Or is the authority of Jesus to execute comes first, then God's judgment comes next?

tall73 said:
God knows all things, knows the end from the beginning, and knows His Sheep.

The judgment on the other hand is not just what God knows but it is the appearance before the throne. And we are told Jesus will be the one judging, on the day, and we are told it will be at His coming:

As God knows our last choice kind of life, isn't that the basis of His judgment or on the basis of our appearance before God's throne?

tall73 said:
Acts 17:31 (NKJV) 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

Matthew 25:31-32
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. (ESV)

2 Corinthians 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil. (ESV)

1Corinthians 4:5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.

Romans 2:16
16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. (ESV)

Yes, "God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus," to elaborate the text you quote as written;
1. God judges the secrets of men,
2. By Christ Jesus, whom was given authority to execute judgment.

tall73 said:
It is hard to take you seriously when you say this.

.Jesus told the parable of the talents while on earth, yes. But he told it in a string of parables about His coming, and it describes what will be with the master going away a long time, coming back, and settling accounts, including interaction.

As Jesus was with them, Jesus told them that the basis of God's judgment were those do's and dont's.
If you apply those parable conversation, we'll be presuming Jesus doesn't have foreknowledge.
Those conversation were for the believer's knowledge of guidance not for Jesus or the Father.

tall73 said:
Matthew 25:13-30

13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.

The day and the hour of what? Of His coming that He is foretelling.

14 “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property. 15 To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. 17 So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master’s money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here, I have made five talents more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here, I have made two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ (ESV)

And likewise with these words, which are not even a parable:

Matthew 25:31-46
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (ESV)

He is describing FUTURE interaction, future discussions about what was done and not done, and then some go to eternal punishment and some to eternal life.

So are you saying that already happened the first time He came, people going to eternal punishment or life? That wouldn't be an SDA response.

Again, as Jesus was with them, Jesus told them that the basis of God's judgment were those do's and dont's.
If you apply those parable conversation, we'll be presuming Jesus doesn't have foreknowledge.
Those conversation were for the believer's knowledge of guidance not for Jesus or the Father.

As God and Jesus wants all to be save, that's the reason why Jesus came in flesh to teach us how to obtain salvation by faith.
Imagine, God fixed a day for Jesus coming (Acts 17:31) I don't know if you interpret day to a thousand years but we must be reminded that the saints in just a twinkling of an eye will be changed at His coming.
How can we'll be changed in a twinkling of an eye if Jesus at His coming, questions each person, "did you feed Me, did you visit Me, etc.
If I answer just in a minute or seconds, could that be finished in a day, if to question all earth population from OT to NT?
Or some argue, make rebuttal, just like what do here as we have to give account per some interpretation, is it realizable?

Capbook2 · Wednesday at 11:24 PM

tall73 said:
tall73 said:

Good way to put it. If you are studying the Bible, it is no wonder you are not familiar with the Adventist IJ. You won't find it in there.

No familiarity of it doesn't necessarily mean unBiblical teaching.

Capbook2 · Wednesday at 11:45 PM

tall73 said:
Since I didn't deny the definition, only applied all that they said, rather than parts of it, that wasn't a problem.

As all definition of "Sabbatismos" by BDAG state, "special period of rest for God's people modeled after the traditional Sabbath."
And online query agree that the phrase "modeled after the traditional Sabbath" refer to seventh day.
Application of all what's stated above I believe still isn't acceptable when preconceived belief firmly held.

tall73 said:
If it were "the weekly Sabbath" it would not be MODELED on "the weekly Sabbath." It would just be the "weekly Sabbath."

Yes, i did refer to the weekly Sabbath as God rested on the seventh day from all His works. (Gen 2:2, Heb 4:4)

tall73 said:
Your magical category of Bible Lexicographers is not doing much for you. They look at usage. They have all the same biases, etc. as everyone else.

Not only usage, etymology, definition or meaning of it at the time the original Bible word was used.

tall73 said:
And even the various ones you posted didn't say it was the sabbath, but was modeled after it, and that it was referring "neither to possession of the land nor to the Sabbath of the OT and Jewish Law. It is a purely heavenly blessing towards which the pilgrim people of God moves."

I don't see that in BDAG which is described as the modern gold standard Greek Lexicon, and also Louw and Nida Greek-English Lexicon.

tall73 · 2026-07-30T16:46:26-0500

To review, I stated:

Tall73 said:
Why would you think the covenant name applied to only one person of the Trinity? We are baptized into the singular "name" of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit:

Matthew 28:19
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (ESV)

And you somehow ask:

Capbook2 said:
Is it your belief that the Father and Jesus are one person?

You agreed to the Trinity if you are posting in this section. This should be fairly straight-forward for you. One God, in three persons. We are baptized into the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

So Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit are One God:

Deuteronomy 6:4-5

4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. (KJV)

And we are baptized into the one name, of three persons, the Father, and Son and the Holy Spirit:

Matthew 28:19

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (ESV)

Capbook2 said:
Do you mean the "I" in Psalms 45:23 uttered by the Jesus?

Isaiah 45:23

23 By myself I have sworn;

from my mouth has gone out in righteousness

a word that shall not return:

To me every knee shall bow,

every tongue shall swear allegiance.’ (ESV)

Philippians 2:9-11

Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (ESV)

tall73 · 2026-07-30T17:02:04-0500

To review, you had said:

Capbook2 said:
My point is to establish "judgment" to happen first, the "execution of the judgment."

I replied:

tall73 said:
They are all done by Jesus on the day appointed, by God's ordaining

Acts 17:31 (NKJV) 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

It says He will judge the world in righteousness. It is not limited to the execution of the judgment.

So then you respond:

Capbook2 said:
Yes, the Father had given Jesus the authority to execute the judgment.

He appointed a day on which He will judge the world--that is what you are claiming happens earlier. It is not. It says it will happen on that day.

And it says by the Man who He has ordained, which he notes was raised from the dead.

Acts 17:31 (NKJV) 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

The final judgment of the world will happen on that day. You keep trying to push it back to an earlier time with no warrant from the text.

Capbook2 said:
In human court, which comes first, the reading of the judgment or the execution of punishment?

First they have the actual testimony, evidence, etc. then the judgment, then the sentencing, then the execution.

But you have ignored the various text that show all that happening on the last day. It is not just the execution that happens on that day:

Acts 17:31 (NKJV) 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

Capbook2 said:
In God's court, due to God's foreknowledge reading was "knowing" the basis of God's judgment through man's deeds, and Jesus execute the judgement.

In Scripture Jesus knows what's in a man already in His incarnation, and knows His own sheep, already in His incarnation, and yet, will judge the world on that day, by God's ordaining:

John 2:24-25

24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, 25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man. (KJV)

John 10:27

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me (KJV)

Acts 17:31 (NKJV) 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.” not for Jesus or the Father.

tall73 · 2026-07-30T17:22:33-0500

I said:

tall73 said:
It is hard to take you seriously when you say this.

.Jesus told the parable of the talents while on earth, yes. But he told it in a string of parables about His coming, and it describes what will be with the master going away a long time, coming back, and settling accounts, including interaction.

Matthew 25:13-30
13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.

The day and the hour of what? Of His coming that He is foretelling.

14 “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property. 15 To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. 17 So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master’s money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here, I have made five talents more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here, I have made two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ (ESV)

You replied:

Capbook2 said:
As Jesus was with them, Jesus told them that the basis of God's judgment were those do's and dont's. If you apply those parable conversation, we'll be presuming Jesus doesn't have foreknowledge. Those conversation were for the believer's knowledge of guidance not for Jesus or the Father.

The whole reason it is for guidance is because He is telling them what it will be like, just as....and then describes it. He does have foreknowledge,

Matthew 25:13-14

13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.

14 “Just as...."

He spells out how it will be--you won't know the day or the hour, and when the Master returns He will settle accounts.

It is guidance because they should live in readiness, not knowing when the Lord will come.

And some will not be ready, and will not have used what God gave them.

I stated:

tall73 said:
And likewise with these words, which are not even a parable:

Matthew 25:31-46
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (ESV)

He is describing FUTURE interaction, future discussions about what was done and not done, and then some go to eternal punishment and some to eternal life.

So are you saying that already happened the first time He came, people going to eternal punishment or life? That wouldn't be an SDA response.

You said:

Capbook2 said:
Again, as Jesus was with them, Jesus told them that the basis of God's judgment were those do's and dont's. If you apply those parable conversation, we'll be presuming Jesus doesn't have foreknowledge.Those conversation were for the believer's knowledge of guidance not for Jesus or the Father.

This is not a parable. It states what will happen, and what will be discussed.

It is for instruction. And it is for warning. And of course it doesn't mean that Jesus doesn't have foreknowledge. Telling them what will happen IS foreknowledge.

Now if Jesus says this will happen, and you say it won't, I have no reason to believe you over Jesus.

Matthew 25:31-46

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (ESV)

tall73 · 2026-07-30T17:31:37-0500

Capbook2 said:
but we must be reminded that the saints in just a twinkling of an eye will be changed at His coming.

Being changed from mortal to immortal happens in a twinkling of an eye.

That will also happen because He says it will.

Capbook2 said:
How can we'll be changed in a twinkling of an eye if Jesus at His coming, questions each person, "did you feed Me, did you visit Me, etc.
If I answer just in a minute or seconds, could that be finished in a day, if to question all earth population from OT to NT?
Or some argue, make rebuttal, just like what do here as we have to give account per some interpretation, is it realizable?

If Jesus, Paul, etc. say it then it will be that way, whether it is a thousand years or not.

And I already referenced that element with you earlier. Your denomination divides the day of judgment into more than 1k years, because your church teaches an IJ judgment from 1844 to now and to who knows how long before heavenly intelligences, then a judgment with the saints reviewing the cases of the wicked for 1k years, then a separate judgment of the wicked where the books are reviewed at the great white throne judgment.

tall73 · 2026-07-30T17:35:17-0500

Capbook2 said:
No familiarity of it doesn't necessarily mean unBiblical teaching.

Then by all means, get to the thread and start trying to figure it out so you can demonstrate it.

tall73 · 2026-07-30T17:51:49-0500

Capbook2 said:
As all definition of "Sabbatismos" by BDAG state, "special period of rest for God's people modeled after the traditional Sabbath."

Modeled is not equal to is.

Capbook2 said:
Not only usage, etymology, definition or meaning of it at the time the original Bible word was used.

Right, and that is why we need a new gold standard, (acknowledged by a number of folks by the way) because their data was out of date.

The usage includes Origin's three uses of other than the weekly Sabbath

The etimology is from a word that does not apply only to the weekly Sabbath and the context spells out the today rest of faith.

And the way it was used was known by Chrysostom who was a Greek speaker close to the time and did not interpret it as you would like.

Capbook2 · 2026-07-31T00:18:47-0500

tall73 said:
To review, I stated:

And you somehow ask:

You agreed to the Trinity if you are posting in this section. This should be fairly straight-forward for you. One God, in three persons. We are baptized into the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

So Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit are One God:

Deuteronomy 6:4-5
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. (KJV)

Yes, I ask you if the Father and Jesus are one person because we are discussing about Isaiah 45:23 in the Old Testament.
Can we state just one verse that the Word made flesh in the Old Testament?
Yes, I am a Trinitarian but I believe as recorded the Word became flesh only in the NT.

tall73 said:
And we are baptized into the one name, of three persons, the Father, and Son and the Holy Spirit:

Matthew 28:19
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (ESV)

Yes, as Jesus became flesh only in the New Testament.

tall73 said:
Isaiah 45:23

23 By myself I have sworn;
from my mouth has gone out in righteousness
a word that shall not return:
To me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear allegiance.’ (ESV)

Again, was Jesus already in flesh in the text above?

tall73 said:
Philippians 2:9-11

Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (ESV)

Yes, as the Word was made flesh only in the New Testament.

Capbook2 · 2026-07-31T00:34:52-0500

tall73 said:
To review, you had said:

I replied:

It says He will judge the world in righteousness. It is not limited to the execution of the judgment.

So then you respond:

He appointed a day on which He will judge the world--that is what you are claiming happens earlier. It is not. It says it will happen on that day.

And it says by the Man who He has ordained, which he notes was raised from the dead.

Acts 17:31 (NKJV) 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

The final judgment of the world will happen on that day. You keep trying to push it back to an earlier time with no warrant from the text.

First they have the actual testimony, evidence, etc. then the judgment, then the sentencing, then the execution.

But you have ignored the various text that show all that happening on the last day. It is not just the execution that happens on that day:

Acts 17:31 (NKJV) 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

In Scripture Jesus knows what's in a man already in His incarnation, and knows His own sheep, already in His incarnation, and yet, will judge the world on that day, by God's ordaining:

John 2:24-25
24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, 25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man. (KJV)

John 10:27
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me (KJV)

Acts 17:31 (NKJV) 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.” not for Jesus or the Father.

Yes, as you always quote Acts 17:31, God appointed a day in which He will judge the world by Jesus.
If the interpretation of Jesus judgment still involves "conversation" in the parables you quote.
Our present population I think 7+ billion, if to include OT and NT dead, if would be more, do you believe that "investigation conversation" can be done in a day? Even man's shortest answers makes such scenario impossible.
If we interpret "day" in Acts 17:31 as one thousand years, would it mean that the changed of the saved from perishable to imperishable describeb in a twinkling of an eye, is a twinkling of an eye means one thousand years?

1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Capbook2 · 2026-07-31T00:43:01-0500

tall73 said:
I said:

You replied:

The whole reason it is for guidance is because He is telling them what it will be like, just as....and then describes it. He does have foreknowledge,

Matthew 25:13-14
13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.

14 “Just as...."

He spells out how it will be--you won't know the day or the hour, and when the Master returns He will settle accounts.

It is guidance because they should live in readiness, not knowing when the Lord will come.

And some will not be ready, and will not have used what God gave them.

I stated:

You said:

This is not a parable. It states what will happen, and what will be discussed.

It is for instruction. And it is for warning. And of course it doesn't mean that Jesus doesn't have foreknowledge. Telling them what will happen IS foreknowledge.

Now if Jesus says this will happen, and you say it won't, I have no reason to believe you over Jesus.

Matthew 25:31-46
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (ESV)

Can we imagine the "conversation" listed in Matthew 25:31-46 to happen at Jesus second coming, ask questions/investigation to all human population of 7+billions, with the addition of the OT dead and NT dead?
Can we explain how it could be done on God's appointed day, were the saved will be changed from perishable to imperishable in a twinkling of an eye?

Capbook2 · 2026-07-31T00:56:22-0500

tall73 said:
Being changed from mortal to immortal happens in a twinkling of an eye.

Yes, but will it happen before or after the conversation/investigation per your interpretation?

tall73 said:
That will also happen because He says it will.

Yes, indeed, but as to your interpretation, would it happen before or after the conversation?
And how many days would it take to converse the 7+billion, with the addition of OT dead and NT dead.

tall73 said:
If Jesus, Paul, etc. say it then it will be that way, whether it is a thousand years or not.

And I already referenced that element with you earlier. Your denomination divides the day of judgment into more than 1k years, because your church teaches an IJ judgment from 1844 to now and to who knows how long before heavenly intelligences, then a judgment with the saints reviewing the cases of the wicked for 1k years, then a separate judgment of the wicked where the books are reviewed at the great white throne judgment.

We are discussing about God's appointed "day," the second coming of Jesus where you interpret "conversation/investigation must be done.
May we know from your interpretation could it be done in a day?
Again, If you interpret a day as 1000 years, does it mean that a "twinkling of an eye" also be done in 1000 years?

Capbook2 · 2026-07-31T00:59:47-0500

tall73 said:
Then by all means, get to the thread and start trying to figure it out so you can demonstrate it.

By God's will, I'll be there in the next few days.

Capbook2 · 2026-07-31T02:25:58-0500

tall73 said:
Modeled is not equal to is.

Even online query made clear what "modeled after the traditional Sabbath" means the pattern of the original weekly Sabbath.

A phrase often used to explain the Greek word sabbatismos in the Bible, modeled after the traditional Sabbath means a special, spiritual period of rest and joy for God's people that mirrors the pattern of the original weekly Sabbath, but focuses on spiritual freedom and faith rather than strict rules for a single 24-hour day

Google Search

tall73 said:
Right, and that is why we need a new gold standard, (acknowledged by a number of folks by the way) because their data was out of date.

The usage includes Origin's three uses of other than the weekly Sabbath

The etimology is from a word that does not apply only to the weekly Sabbath and the context spells out the today rest of faith.

And the way it was used was known by Chrysostom who was a Greek speaker close to the time and did not interpret it as you would like.

"Sabbatismos" is a derivative of "Sabbaton" the seventh day, the "eternal Sabbath rest" is not.

BDAG only give one definition, proving "Sabbatismos" is modeled after the traditional Sabbath, the seventh day, and online query agreed.

Older Bible Lexicon give two definition of Sabbatismos;
1. Sabbath keeping, Sabbath observance,
2. Eternal Sabbath rest.

May we know where of the two definition more closely related to "Sabbaton?"

Again, Origen and Chrysostom were not credentialed Bible Lexicographer, do not have the authority to define original Bible words what it means at the time of usage.

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