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Ellen White on photographs

The Liturgist

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I agree. There seems to be more than a smidgeon of hypocrisy for any individual who stridently preaches one thing (the vanity of photography) and, on the other hand, engages in the practice herself. If the motivation was to spread her prophecies, then her image would merely distract from her message. There is more than a whiff of personal self-promotion here.

I myself am not accusing her of hypocrisy, but rather am lamenting the fact that she did not include in her letter her entire perspective on photography. This is actually my main criticism of her writing style, that being that in order to get her full view on an issue, one must read across multiple books, since individual books tend to treat each issue in a highly simplified, black and white manner, which works in some disciplines like computer science, but in theology, where nuance is important, it leads to confusion. I suspect there would be less controversy about The Great Controversy if rather than being one book among many which set out her beliefs, her entire belief system was presented in a concise manner, including her Trinitarian theology.
 
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I think here, she may have been trying to discourage christians from turning this into an unhealthy trend. I mean the issue on photographs.

Oh yeah! & I also do remember she would sometimes mention her instructor in her writings, what I seem to have forgotten though is, if she was referring to a real person or an angel who was specially assigned to guide her.
 
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I think here, she may have been trying to discourage christians from turning this into an unhealthy trend. I mean the issue on photographs.

Oh yeah! & I also do remember she would sometimes mention her instructor in her writings, what I seem to have forgotten though is, if she was referring to a real person or an angel who was specially assigned to guide her.
A comparison might be made today with Facebook. Many have lamented the fixation of large numbers of people with Facebook and have tried to deliver them from the time-consuming habit. It is one thing, however, to tell folks that they are wasting precious time on Facebook and quite another to tell them that the salvation of their eternal souls depends on their avoiding Facebook completely. I think she probably crossed the line in regard to the fixation of people with photography.

Regarding her source of inspiration, it is certainly not unreasonable to view, in hindsight, the possibility that she may have suffered from some form of mental disorder such as schizophrenia.
 
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Regarding her source of inspiration, it is certainly not unreasonable to view, in hindsight, the possibility that she may have suffered from some form of mental disorder such as schizophrenia.

Could such a condition result from the traumatic brain injuries you mentioned previously in this thread? Perhaps our friend @Andrewn might know.
 
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Could such a condition result from the traumatic brain injuries you mentioned previously in this thread? Perhaps our friend @Andrewn might know.
Although I was not the one who mentioned the traumatic brain injuries, I think that something like that could have results such as mental disorder. However, I am not a doctor and can only speculate.
 
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A comparison might be made today with Facebook. Many have lamented the fixation of large numbers of people with Facebook and have tried to deliver them from the time-consuming habit. It is one thing, however, to tell folks that they are wasting precious time on Facebook and quite another to tell them that the salvation of their eternal souls depends on their avoiding Facebook completely. I think she probably crossed the line in regard to the fixation of people with photography.

Regarding her source of inspiration, it is certainly not unreasonable to view, in hindsight, the possibility that she may have suffered from some form of mental disorder such as schizophrenia.
She has some great teachings though in some of her health reform messages. I tend to sift and take out only things that I can apply to my daily life with regards to her teachings, e.g healthy eating habits & the like. But as for her doctrines pertaining to salvation, I just send them flying through the window and no longer entertain none of that.
 
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She has some great teachings though in some of her health reform messages. I tend to sift and take out only things that I can apply to my daily life with regards to her teachings, e.g healthy eating habits & the like. But as for her doctrines pertaining to salvation, I just send them flying through the window and no longer entertain none of that.
That is a parallel universe to the LDS, which has some fairly decent teachings regarding a healthy diet and lifestyle. Their theology, however, is pathetic in the extreme.
 
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I would argue the best source for guidance regarding a healthy diet and lifestyle is to be obtained from one’s physician, who we are advised to honor (Ecclesiasticus 38:1-15).
 
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I would argue the best source for guidance regarding a healthy diet and lifestyle is to be obtained from one’s physician, who we are advised to honor (Ecclesiasticus 38:1-15).
I agree entirely. Modern medicine has made tremendous advances since the nineteenth century when doctors were considered to be the last resort, only to be used when at death's door. Thus, alternatives, such as the SDA, the LDS, the Mary Baker Eddy flourished with their versions of "health and science, with key to the scriptures".
 
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Wouldn't you think @SabbathBlessings would have a comment to make in support of her mentor?
My Bible and the Holy Spirit is my mentor. Ellen White just points everyone back to the Bible.

Why its usually best not to make personal comments about other people you don't know.

Every time I have peeled back all the fluff of these types of threads, it usually turns out to be misleading and out of context. Why I don't chase each of them down. What other people think about other people, has no effect on me. In the end we will all have to stand before God. He will sort everything out in His time.
 
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My Bible and the Holy Spirit is my mentor. Ellen White just points everyone back to the Bible.

Why its usually best not to make personal comments about other people you don't know.

Every time I have peeled back all the fluff of these types of threads, it usually turns out to be misleading and out of context. Why I don't chase each of them down. What other people think about other people, has no effect on me. In the end we will all have to stand before God. He will sort everything out in His time.
Do you think a photograph is a graven image or an idol?

Psalm 101:3 comes to mind - this might bring some biblical context.
 
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Do you think a photograph is a graven image or an idol?

Psalm 101:3 comes to mind - this might bring some biblical context.
Sorry, not interested in this rabbit hole..... as I said most of these types of threads turns out to be selected quotes out of context.

Thanks for trying to pull me in, but no thanks. Signing out of notifications to this thread. You guys carry on.
 
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BobRyan

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There is a popular term TDS, where some people seem to be stuck with one person living in their head rent free.

The All Ellen White All the Time threads, are interesting to me in that same category where I see someone that seems to be stuck

The innocent passer by then gets drawn in with a kind of "yeah lets chase this rabbit for a while" and I can see how it would be entertaining for a while.

I make my case from scripture
 
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I make my case from scripture
As interpreted by Ellen White.
I had one of my posts on these threads removed by the mods because I was supposedly accusing someone of heresy, although I had done no such thing. I had merely stated that based on the quote from Ellen White, she completely misunderstood the incarnation. One of your brethren apparently identifies so strongly with the position of Ellen White that they took my comment about Mrs White as a personal attack on them, so it appears that Mrs White lives rent free in the head of at least one of your brethren.
 
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To the reader: Context is important. Here's why.


Source: Google AI (search: "context definition"), AI sourced its response from the Cambridge Dictionary.

Context is the background, setting, or surrounding circumstances that help explain the true meaning of an event, statement, or piece of writing. Without it, information can be misunderstood.

Types of Context

  • Linguistic context: The words or sentences right before and after a specific phrase that make its meaning clear.
  • Situational context: The real-world time, place, and environment in which an event happens.
  • Cultural context: The shared beliefs, rules, and history of a group of people.
Why It Matters
  • Prevents misinterpretation: Keeps statements from being taken the wrong way or used out of context.
  • Aids comprehension: Gives meaning to raw facts, numbers, or isolated quotes.


I address the OP with context and scriptural support in post 8.
 
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tall73

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To the reader: Context is important. Here's why.


Source: Google AI (search: "context definition"), AI sourced its response from the Cambridge Dictionary.

Context is the background, setting, or surrounding circumstances that help explain the true meaning of an event, statement, or piece of writing. Without it, information can be misunderstood.

Types of Context

  • Linguistic context: The words or sentences right before and after a specific phrase that make its meaning clear.
  • Situational context: The real-world time, place, and environment in which an event happens.
  • Cultural context: The shared beliefs, rules, and history of a group of people.
Why It Matters
  • Prevents misinterpretation: Keeps statements from being taken the wrong way or used out of context.
  • Aids comprehension: Gives meaning to raw facts, numbers, or isolated quotes.


I address the OP with context and scriptural support in post 8.

Yes, you did.

And I encourage everyone to read it. In fact, I will quote the whole thing here to make it easier for people to read it.

But then when folks have read it they may ask, as I did:

Why did Ellen White sit for the many pictures described in her statements in the opening post, and seen in the photo record?​


She wrote on the same subject in May of the same year.

Every true child of God will be sifted as wheat, and in the sifting process every cherished pleasure which diverts the mind from God must be sacrificed. In many families the mantel-shelves, stands, and tables are filled with ornaments and pictures. Albums filled with photographs of the family and their friends are placed where they will attract the attention of visitors. Thus the thoughts, which should be upon God and heavenly interests, are brought down to common things. Is not this a species of idolatry? Should not the money thus spent have been used to bless humanity, to relieve the suffering, to clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry? Should it not be placed in the Lord’s treasury to advance His cause and build up His kingdom in the earth? { RH May 14, 1901, par. 1 }​
What did Jesus say?

Matthew 6:20-21 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.​
Matthew 19:16-24 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.​
Continuing.
This matter is of great importance, and it is urged upon you to save you from the sin of idolatry. Blessing would come to your souls if you would obey the word spoken by the Holy One of Israel, “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” Many are creating unnecessary cares and anxieties for themselves by devoting time and thought to the unnecessary ornaments with which their houses are filled. The power of God is needed to arouse them from this devotion; for to all intents and purposes it is idolatry. { RH May 14, 1901, par. 2 }​
He who searches the heart desires to win His people from every species of idolatry. Let the word of God, the blessed book of life, occupy the tables now filled with useless ornaments. Spend your money in buying books that will be the means of enlightening the mind in regard to present truth. The time you waste in moving and dusting the multitudinous ornaments in your house, spend in writing a few lines to your friends, in sending papers or leaflets or little books to some one who knows not the truth. Grasp the word of the Lord as the treasure of infinite wisdom and love; this is the guide-book that points out the path to heaven. It points us to the sin-pardoning Saviour, saying, “Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” Oh that you would search the Scriptures with prayerful hearts, and a spirit of surrender to God! Oh that you would search your hearts as with a lighted candle, and discover and break the finest thread that binds you to worldly habits, which divert the mind from God! Plead with God to show you every practice that draws your thoughts and affections from Him. God has given His holy law to man as His measure of character. By this law you may see and overcome every defect in your character. You may sever yourself from every idol, and link yourself to the throne of God by the golden chain of grace and truth. { RH May 14, 1901, par. 3 }​
The apostle writes: “Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honor preferring one another; not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer; distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.” “The night is far spent; the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof.” { RH May 14, 1901, par. 4 }​
There is none too much self-denial, none too much self-sacrifice, none too much overcoming evil with good. If all the inclinations to gratify the taste for frivolous things were firmly resisted, there would be more money to use for God. Shall we not make decided changes in this respect? Shall we not set money flowing in channels where it will glorify God? { RH May 14, 1901, par. 5 }​
When I see families poorly clad, and houses destitute of those things that are necessary for comfort, and then visit the homes where every niche and corner is filled with useless ornaments, I am tired of the sight of my eyes. Let us search the Word and see if there is not some instruction there that will teach us how to relieve the maladies that have become chronic in the spiritual life of many. “Is not this the fast that I have chosen?” God asks, “to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy rearward.... If thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday: and the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.” { RH May 14, 1901, par. 6 }​
Quoting Paul:
“Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity,” Paul declares, “I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil.” { RH May 14, 1901, par. 7 }​
Perfection:
The Son of the infinite God came to this earth, and honored it with His presence. He emptied himself of His glory, and clothed His divinity with humanity, that humanity might touch humanity, and reveal to fallen man the perfect love of God. Christ did not come to earth to live a life of pleasure, of self-indulgence. He lived not to please himself. “The Son of man,” He said, “is come to seek and to save that which was lost.” { RH May 14, 1901, par. 8 }​
We have great changes to make before we reach perfection. God calls for complete self-surrender. We must guard diligently our lips, lest they speak guile. We must be strict with ourselves, that we bring not false principles into our dealings with others, and lead souls from the safe path. We must work the works of God. Adhere to correct principles, whatever the cost to yourself. In appeals and warnings let your light shine forth to others. Economize your pence, that you may have pounds with which to help the cause of truth. Keep your tables free from many pictures and ornaments, which are as nothing in comparison with the word of God. Let your holy example lead the sympathies of your friends heavenward; “for he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.” “We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let every one of us please his neighbor for his good to edification. For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen on me. For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope. Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be like-minded one toward another according to Jesus Christ: that ye may with one mind and with one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” { RH May 14, 1901, par. 9 }​

Jesus said:

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.​

Paul wrote:

Romans 6:12-13 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.​

Conclusion

I think her own words describe well what she meant about photography.

Regarding the modern version of what she was talking about... Surely the reader can see the vanity and even idolatry in the way people use photography and video on social media. Instead of putting photos on physical walls and mantels, people are putting them on virtual spaces on social media for the same reasons.
 
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