New GOP efforts to make it harder to vote

DaisyDay · Sunday at 9:22 AM

Servus said:
The BLM organization was full of corruption and only made things worse.

Before BLM, police were only rarely punished for unlawful killings - that has changed, along with unlawful killings being actually investigated.

BLM were not the violent ones - that was the Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer, etc. and antifa as well as those opportunists who came in just for the looting and rioting - who generally showed up after the BLM people went home for the day.

Aldebaran · Sunday at 12:17 PM

DaisyDay said:
Before BLM, police were only rarely punished for unlawful killings - that has changed, along with unlawful killings being actually investigated.

BLM were not the violent ones - that was the Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer, etc. and antifa as well as those opportunists who came in just for the looting and rioting - who generally showed up after the BLM people went home for the day.

Those killings nearly always happen when the suspect flees/fights/pulls a gun on the police. One of the most recent incidents occured in my home state where a guy was trying to break into vehicles. When the Police attempted to detain him, he pulls out a knife and starts stabbing police officers. He ended up getting shot, and now the city has to put up with rioters blocking streets and causing businesses to close and events to be canceled.

Say it aint so · Sunday at 12:37 PM

Aldebaran said:
Those killings nearly always happen when the suspect flees/fights/pulls a gun on the police. One of the most recent incidents occured in my home state where a guy was trying to break into vehicles. When the Police attempted to detain him, he pulls out a knife and starts stabbing police officers. He ended up getting shot, and now the city has to put up with rioters blocking streets and causing businesses to close and events to be canceled.

"Those killings nearly always happen when the suspect flees/fights/pulls a gun on the police."

That is false. And fleeing is not a reason to use deadly force.

Aldebaran · Sunday at 12:41 PM

Say it aint so said:
"Those killings nearly always happen when the suspect flees/fights/pulls a gun on the police."

That is false. And fleeing is not a reason to use deadly force.

Looks like you missed (or ignored) the part about fighting and pulling a gun on the police. When you use deadly force against police, police are authorized to use deadly force against you.

But let's get back to the topic of how they supposedly can't vote.

DaisyDay · Sunday at 5:18 PM

Aldebaran said:
Those killings nearly always happen when the suspect flees/fights/pulls a gun on the police. One of the most recent incidents occured in my home state where a guy was trying to break into vehicles. When the Police attempted to detain him, he pulls out a knife and starts stabbing police officers. He ended up getting shot, and now the city has to put up with rioters blocking streets and causing businesses to close and events to be canceled.

Was it this one?

Police experts share concern over Madison fatal shooting of Corey Ruiz

Experts' scrutiny started with what happened before cameras were rolling. Davis wondered if appropriate de-escalation techniques were used or attempted at all. Patterson, Madison's police chief, said Ruiz had fled on a bike and was either removed from it or got off, but he was uncertain how that occurred.

Two of the experts also expressed concern over what they saw in bystander footage.

Delores Jones-Brown, a distinguished professor of criminal justice at Fayetteville State University, and Davis said the other officers' tactics – the use of a taser, attempted control of limbs – pointed to not all the officers agreeing that firing a gun was needed. Davis specifically said officers should have found a way to slow down the situation, whether before or during, to avoid shooting Ruiz.

Despite an officer's injury, the number of officers involved suggested the situation could have been contained without firing the gun, which she believed was premature due to this, Jones-Brown said.

Aldebaran · Sunday at 7:48 PM

DaisyDay said:
Was it this one?

Police experts share concern over Madison fatal shooting of Corey Ruiz

Experts' scrutiny started with what happened before cameras were rolling. Davis wondered if appropriate de-escalation techniques were used or attempted at all. Patterson, Madison's police chief, said Ruiz had fled on a bike and was either removed from it or got off, but he was uncertain how that occurred.

Two of the experts also expressed concern over what they saw in bystander footage.

Delores Jones-Brown, a distinguished professor of criminal justice at Fayetteville State University, and Davis said the other officers' tactics – the use of a taser, attempted control of limbs – pointed to not all the officers agreeing that firing a gun was needed. Davis specifically said officers should have found a way to slow down the situation, whether before or during, to avoid shooting Ruiz.

Despite an officer's injury, the number of officers involved suggested the situation could have been contained without firing the gun, which she believed was premature due to this, Jones-Brown said.

Yes.

NxNW · Sunday at 8:09 PM

Aldebaran said:
But let's get back to the topic of how they supposedly can't vote.

We've already established that, all you have to do is scroll back!

Aldebaran · Sunday at 8:25 PM

NxNW said:
We've already established that, all you have to do is scroll back!

The non-answers I got didn't impress me the first time around.

NxNW · Sunday at 9:35 PM

Aldebaran said:
The non-answers I got didn't impress me the first time around.

You must have missed the documented figures I provided. Or did you not understand them? I thought they were pretty clear. You haven't refuted them, so I can only conclude you were unable to.

A2SG · Sunday at 10:38 PM

Aldebaran said:
400 Americans had their vote cancelled as a result. One is too many.

First, you have no way of knowing who any of the 400 voted for. Some of them could have easily cancelled each other out.

Second, for perspective, 400 voters is 0.009361707107291% of the total vote count for the 2024 presidential election in New Jersey. Massive, it ain't.

Third, while you may hold that "one is too many," that is pretty much an impossible goal. Even with the SAVE act in place, there will likely never be zero fraudulent votes cast in any given election. So the solution will not solve the problem to the extent you wish it to, and the problems it creates would make things worse. If you think one fraudulent vote is too many, surely millions of potential voters who are prevented from legally voting would also be too many?

-- A2SG, though, for some, that does seem to be the goal.....

Pommer · Sunday at 11:25 PM

Once some enterprising young democracy-loving Republican sees the wisdom of emulating our good friend, Australia, and leads the way to make voting mandatory, they’d be set for decades!
Make it so any person may be of any party, but to a party they must belong in order to vote. (No “independents”.)
Parties could start re-requiring “dues”; membership in a party wouldn’t be assured, people would have to be vetted. Under “no-party/no vote” a lot of people would simply walk away from attempting to vote.
Manipulating the rest is easier that way.

This would take about fifteen years, twelve with the present SCOTUS.

rambot · Monday at 9:31 AM

Aldebaran said:
Those killings nearly always happen when the suspect flees/fights/pulls a gun on the police.

BLM protests were in support of people who were killed in some pretty absurd and radically, unproffesional, potentially racial circumstances.

The issue is, when body cam differs (which absolutely happens); when body cams are turned off and there are no other witnesses.

Say it aint so · Monday at 10:16 AM

Aldebaran said:
Looks like you missed (or ignored) the part about fighting and pulling a gun on the police. When you use deadly force against police, police are authorized to use deadly force against you.

In general, the BLM protests were country wide. Those protests were mainly of those who were shot unarmed. So false again.

But let's get back to the topic of how they supposedly can't vote.

This is the topic:

New GOP efforts to make it harder to vote

The only thing wrong with that topic, is it has been proven true that this ongoing effort is not new.

Dale · Monday at 10:42 AM

Servus said:
There is those who don't have and those who can't get. As for those who can't get, the question is what is prohibiting them? I don't mean hypothetical and speculative reasons, but rather actual unsolvable reasons.

You seem to be putting down the poor. Look at it this way. Maybe the poor man (or woman) is poor because they paid their bills. Maybe those who have money in the bank didn't pay their bills. That puts a different spin on it.

Servus · Monday at 10:59 AM

Dale said:
You seem to be putting down the poor. Look at it this way. Maybe the poor man (or woman) is poor because they paid their bills. Maybe those who have money in the bank didn't pay their bills. That puts a different spin on it.

I've been poor my entire life. I live in a tiny room in rundown 100+ year old downtown hotel. I didn't have a car until I was 24, and that was a beat up Pinto. But I was still able to get diver's license type ID when I was on my own at 18. And that was 46 years ago. My mom who was disabled without a car and raised us in a tiny apartment on welfare was able to do so as well. It's not a herculean task, even if you're poor and or not white. I'd say those saying us poor people and people of color are all so helpless is the put down.

DaisyDay · Monday at 12:37 PM

Servus said:
I've been poor my entire life. I live in a tiny room in rundown 100+ year old downtown hotel. I didn't have a car until I was 24, and that was a beat up Pinto. But I was still able to get diver's license type ID when I was on my own at 18. And that was 46 years ago. My mom who was disabled without a car and raised us in a tiny apartment on welfare was able to do so as well. It's not a herculean task, even if you're poor and or not white. I'd say those saying us poor people and people of color are all so helpless is the put down.

Are the ids that are readily available acceptable to use as voter ids? If yes, then great!

If not, why not?

Aldebaran · Monday at 1:29 PM

NxNW said:
You must have missed the documented figures I provided. Or did you not understand them? I thought they were pretty clear. You haven't refuted them, so I can only conclude you were unable to.

"Documentation" from left-wing propagandist sites run by people who will say anything to sway an election doesn't interest me.

NxNW · Monday at 2:24 PM

Aldebaran said:
"Documentation" from left-wing propagandist sites run by people who will say anything to sway an election doesn't interest me.

Well, if you're going to attack the source of facts while ignoring the facts themselves, I guess we can draw our own conclusions about the merits (or lack thereof) of your position.

Say it aint so · Monday at 2:38 PM

Aldebaran said:
"Documentation" from left-wing propagandist sites run by people who will say anything to sway an election doesn't interest me.

The irony meter explodes as those who say elections are rigged and lack integrity without any proof or evidence what so ever...i.e. "people who will say anything to sway an election" is where the cognitive dissonance lies.

Dale · Monday at 4:48 PM

The subject of “making it hard to vote” is not confined to voter ID laws. The Trump Administration has aggressively pushed active purges of voter rolls using databases not intended for that purpose. Judges are rejecting these purges because the Constitution gives Congress the power to regulate elections, not the executive branch.

Here are a couple of quotes from a recent Associated Press story on voter purges.

“Anthony Nel was one of those whose registrations were wrongly flagged. The South Africa native became a U.S. citizen more than a decade ago but had his voter registration in Denton, Texas, north of Dallas, canceled temporarily last year after Texas ran its voter file through SAVE. The check wrongly identified him as a potential noncitizen.”

“Voting by noncitizens is already illegal and punishable as a potential felony that could lead to deportation.”

Story:

Judge blocks use of federal database to check citizenship, saying it could wrongly purge voters

https://apnews.com/article/trump-elections-noncitizens-voting-save-lawsuit-a9612cfffa40c938e67b99f265c9e817

New GOP efforts to make it harder to vote

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