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Religious Persecution by the President of the United States

ThatRobGuy

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This is a really dumb example. `"Universal healthcare" requires *government funding* and thus would require a legislative majority to implement. (It also isn't "culture".)

Is there any culture that is exempted for exclusion? Which cultures brought to the US were "OK"?

Ultimately there's cultural aspects that can blend and coexist, and others that can't.

That old saying about "melting pot vs. tossed salad"

Things like food, music, arts for example can co-exist and blend together. Other things can not.


And when you refer to a legislative majority, you mean like that was formed in Hamtramck Michigan (the very first city in the country to ever have a Muslim majority)? Where they built up enough of an enclave to where 5 of the 7 city council members were foreign born from Yemen and Bangladesh, and then immediately amended the city code for the following policy changes:
- Amending the city noise ordinance so that the Muslim call to prayer could be broadcast through loudspeakers throughout that city at 6am and 10pm.
- Amending the city animal welfare and sanitation codes so that ritual animal slaughter could be performed in peoples' back yards
- Carving out funding for Halal meal compliance at public schools
- Institute a city ban on Pride flags
- Changing the city decency code to prohibit what they deem as 'lewd swimwear' at the city pool

(all over the objections of the existing residents who already lived there...I referenced that case in post #71)


There are certain cultures that have the melting pot mindset, and other that have the mentality of biding their time until they have the numbers, and then immediately replace what was there with something specifically catering to their religious ideological viewpoint.
 
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DaisyDay

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Ultimately there's cultural aspects that can blend and coexist, and others that can't.

That old saying about "melting pot vs. tossed salad"

Things like food, music, arts for example can co-exist and blend together. Other things can not.
Why not?
And when you refer to a legislative majority, you mean like that was formed in Hamtramck Michigan (the very first city in the country to ever have a Muslim majority)? Where they built up enough of an enclave to where 5 of the 7 city council members were foreign born from Yemen and Bangladesh, and then immediately amended the city code for the following policy changes:
- Amending the city noise ordinance so that the Muslim call to prayer could be broadcast through loudspeakers throughout that city at 6am and 10pm.
I don't see that as different from cities that allow church bells (which aren't even church bells but recordings of same). I find it pleasant.
- Amending the city animal welfare and sanitation codes so that ritual animal slaughter could be performed in peoples' back yards
Is ritual slaughter (the meat is eaten) somehow worse than commercial slaughter? What is the actual problem with this? This should also benefit any members of Santeria who live there.
- Carving out funding for Halal meal compliance at public schools
Why is that a problem? Religious accommodation is usual in public schools. It's fairly common in NYC schools to serve kosher meals.
- Institute a city ban on Pride flags
That's misleading as the flags (all flags except US, state and municipal flags) are banned only in city buildings. Businesses and private people can fly whatever flags they please.
- Changing the city decency code to prohibit what they deem as 'lewd swimwear' at the city pool
Was lewd swimwear allowed previously? Are Speedos lewd?
(all over the objections of the existing residents who already lived there...I referenced that case in post #71)

There are certain cultures that have the melting pot mindset, and other that have the mentality of biding their time until they have the numbers, and then immediately replace what was there with something specifically catering to their religious ideological viewpoint.
Like mandating that a copy of the 10 Commandments be put in all classrooms?
 
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ThatRobGuy

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I don't see that as different from cities that allow church bells (which aren't even church bells but recordings of same). I find it pleasant.
Are the church bells going off at 10pm at night in cities that have noise ordinances that would normally limit that and doing so under a special carve-out exemption just for them?

In any of the places I've lived in that's been within earshot of Church, I only recall them going off at noon daily, and at 9am for Sundays. I don't recall ever hearing them sound off at 10pm.
Is ritual slaughter (the meat is eaten) somehow worse than commercial slaughter? What is the actual problem with this? This should also benefit any members of Santeria who live there.
Yes, both Kosher and Halal slaughter are worse

Ritual slaughter in plain view of other people adds additional layer of terribleness icing on the cake.

Both forbid the use of any sort of stunning on the animal, so it has to be awake to feel the experience of having its throat slit and bleeding out hence the reason why nearly half of Europe has banned it.

Allowing that on private property has both cultural implications (most people don't want their kids playing in the backyard, and looking over and seeing 4 men hold down a screaming goat and slitting it's throat and having it bleed out in front of them). It also touches on some potential public health concerns.
Why is that a problem? Religious accommodation is usual in public schools. It's fairly common in NYC schools to serve kosher meals.
I'm not in favor of that either.

Given that religion is a choice and not a circumstance of birth, the onus shouldn't be on all taxpayers to kick in for a more expensive variety of food.

I just became devout in the religion of Robism, as a devout Robist, I can only have Filet Mignon and Duck L'orange...look it up, it's in the book that I wrote. Publicly funded institutions have to accommodate me now, right?
That's misleading as the flags (all flags except US, state and municipal flags) are banned only in city buildings. Businesses and private people can fly whatever flags they please.

The lawsuit argued that the city council’s policy didn’t maintain neutrality because it allowed certain flags — like the U.S. and state flags, prisoner-of-war flags and flags that “represent the international character” of residents.

“Hamtramck’s refusal to display the Gay Pride flag did not violate the Constitution,” Judge Lawson wrote in his decision, according to Watermark Online. But even though the policy banned all other kinds of flags, the ban was put in place solely due to opposition to the Pride flag.


So, basically, it was phony neutrality. They banned a big list of flags (but the rest were collateral damage in the cause of getting rid of the one they really didn't like)

Was lewd swimwear allowed previously? Are Speedos lewd?
As one may expect, the western definition and Fundamentalist Muslim position on what constitutes lewd are very different, both broadly, and as well as in it's typically very lopsided by sex. (hence the reason why you'll see pics of families at the beach in middle eastern countries, and the guys are still allow to wear just a pair of trunks, and women and girls are out there in full garb)
Like mandating that a copy of the 10 Commandments be put in all classrooms?
Yes, exactly like that...
 
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Hans Blaster

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Was lewd swimwear allowed previously? Are Speedos lewd?
1784853054083.png
 
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Hans Blaster

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Ultimately there's cultural aspects that can blend and coexist, and others that can't.

That old saying about "melting pot vs. tossed salad"
One is for making fondue, the other is chopped leaves. I don't know what saying you could have in mind.
Things like food, music, arts for example can co-exist and blend together. Other things can not.

Aber nur auf Englisch?

And when you refer to a legislative majority, you mean like that was formed in Hamtramck Michigan (the very first city in the country to ever have a Muslim majority)?
We have now gotten to the recycled part of your post. Unlike with trash, recycling is not a virtue in posts.
Where they built up enough of an enclave to where 5 of the 7 city council members were foreign born from Yemen and Bangladesh,
Muslim majority? Yemeni and Bangladeshi? Foreign born? You're wandering around a bit here. (And no Somalis on this list? I thought this was about a Somali take over. [or was it about Trump's bigotry about Somalis and their culture?])
and then immediately amended the city code for the following policy changes:
- Amending the city noise ordinance so that the Muslim call to prayer could be broadcast through loudspeakers throughout that city at 6am and 10pm.
So?

And "throughout the city" or just from loud speakers at the mosques? (I used to wake up on Saturday mornings to loudspeakers emanating sounds from the nearby Ford dealership. It failed in the great recession. It's very annoying to a country boy like me, but something one must get used to in the city.)

(Also, if you had just read the Wikipedia article, you'd know that the call to prayer was authorized by the city council TWENTY years ago.)
- Amending the city animal welfare and sanitation codes so that ritual animal slaughter could be performed in peoples' back yards

So? This is a zoning issue.

Thus far we just seem to have things that might have only been banned *because* a ban targeted Muslims back when Muslims were common, but couldn't elect the city council. I'd need to know more about the prior history of Hammtrack. (I think I even drove through it at night many years ago.)
- Carving out funding for Halal meal compliance at public schools
Could be worse -- could have put in funding so students would have vegan options. (vegans --- shiver...)
- Institute a city ban on Pride flags
There are whole states trying to ban such flags from public buildings. Have Utah, Idaho, or Montana been taken over by Muslims too? Or was it some other non-Western religion up to no good?
- Changing the city decency code to prohibit what they deem as 'lewd swimwear' at the city pool
That's never happened anywhere else. :rolleyes:
(all over the objections of the existing residents who already lived there...I referenced that case in post #71)
Existing residents? Already lived there?

Some choice bits from the Wikipedia article on the city:

"As of 2006, most of the Middle Eastern population in Hamtramck is Yemeni." (Seems like they've been there a while. Longer than most of my neighbors have lived on this street.

"In the 1930s, the first group of Bengalis came to Detroit and Hamtramck." "The first significant population of Bengalis began arriving in the late 1980s ..."

"By 2001 many Bangladeshis, Bosnians, and Iraqi Assyrians were moving to Hamtramck."

"As of 2003, over 30 languages are spoken in Hamtramck and more than four religions are present. The four principal religions are Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, and Buddhism."

Sounds pretty ethnically and religiously diverse.

I guess a hundred years ago you'd be complaining about the Poles taking over the local government:

"Hamtramck flourished from 1910 to 1920 as thousands of European immigrants, particularly Poles, were attracted by the growing automobile industry. "
There are certain cultures that have the melting pot mindset, and other that have the mentality of biding their time until they have the numbers, and then immediately replace what was there with something specifically catering to their religious ideological viewpoint.
Comply with "legacy American culture" or get out? No thanks.
 
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High Fidelity

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Bradskii

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Oh look, another Muslim attempting mass murder.
As per the reports, the man suspected of the attack has 'connections with Islam'.

You probably know that just over two thirds of prisoners in the US are either Protestant or Catholic. How about I posted that the next person reported to have murdered someone (there's over 60 per day, so I won't be stuck for any examples) has 'connections with Christianity'?

Whaddya think? Is that reasonable?
 
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DaisyDay

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High Fidelity

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Oh look, another Muslim extremist attempting mass murder.

When the same 'extremists' are associated with a specific ideology, it begs the question why.

We recently banned a dog breed in the UK because it was disproportionately responsible for the number of fatalities following attacks, and rightly so it was explored and determined that some breeds are just wired differently than others.

Same principle applies. When the presence of X results in an increase in Y, it isn't hard to connect the dots.

 
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Bradskii

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When the same 'extremists' are associated with a specific ideology, it begs the question why.
They are taught it from an early age. It's written into their scripture. And I think that you'll find that that is applicable to the Muslim faith as well. I guess the common denominator, as you pointed out by using the scare quotes, in that some people are 'extremist' in their views.

Oh, look. Literally as I type this there is a report now playing on my TV that places of worship have been torched by some extremists. It was in the occupied West Bank so I'll leave it to you to determine who the extremists were in this case (spoiler alert as regards the BBC report quoted below).


'The confrontation has further inflamed the situation in the West Bank, which has seen ever growing violence by extremist settlers against Palestinians, encouraged by far-right elements in the current Israeli government.'

Let me know if you need me to further illustrate problems we have with people of various religions who hold extremist views.
 
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DaisyDay

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When the same 'extremists' are associated with a specific ideology, it begs the question why.

We recently banned a dog breed in the UK because it was disproportionately responsible for the number of fatalities following attacks, and rightly so it was explored and determined that some breeds are just wired differently than others.

Same principle applies. When the presence of X results in an increase in Y, it isn't hard to connect the dots.

[2015 - ]An ultra-Orthodox Jewish man lunged into a group of revelers leading Jerusalem's annual gay pride parade and stabbed six of them Thursday evening as they marched in the holy city, Israeli police and witnesses said.


The alleged attacker, Yishai Schlissel, had recently been released from prison after serving a term for stabbing several people at a gay pride parade in 2005, police spokeswoman Luba Samri said, adding that he was arrested at the scene of Thursday's attack.​


The protesters, chanting "Death to homosexuals!" hurled petrol bombs, bricks, stones, bottles and firecrackers at riot police. Police responded with teargas and armoured vehicles to disperse the riots in the heart of the capital even after the brief pride march ended.

...Rightwing groups say the gay events are contrary to Serbian family and religious values.


In 2012 and 2014 Pride marches in Kyiv were cancelled at the last moment after the police told the organizing committee that they could not ensure the safety of participants following threats. This year there were again threats from the radical right-wing groups, Svoboda and Pravyi Sektor. Police held meetings with event organisers to try and dissuade them from holding the event but eventually agreed to protect the march, at a meeting on Friday 5 June.



The specific ideology common to these attacks is right-wing anti-gay.
 
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Bradskii

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We recently banned a dog breed in the UK because it was disproportionately responsible for the number of fatalities following attacks, and rightly so it was explored and determined that some breeds are just wired differently than others.

Same principle applies.
How much lower do you intend dragging this conversation down?
 
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