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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Democratic candidates: You be the judge.

Hans Blaster

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Article 4 Section 4​

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence. Explain how people who claim to be socialist and communist can be elected to office and honor their oath to uphold the constitution that guarantees a Republican form of government?
You do realize that "Republican" here doesn't mean "GOP", right?

They would do it the same way we've always done it -- by following the law (including the constitution) and having new elections to replace those officials when their terms expire. (No kings, no potentates, no supreme leader -- elections.)

I'm beginning to think you also don't know what "socialist" and "communist" are either.
 
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A2SG

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Please tell us what is actually wrong with the concept and goal of Making America Great Again?
The problem isn't the concept or goal in a general sense. The problem is the methods being used by Trump and his administration, and the toadyism of the rest of the GOP in allowing any and all overreaches.

-- A2SG, remember when the GOP used to stand for conservative values, instead of toadying for an authoritarian demagogue? Ah, memories.....
 
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A2SG

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Article 4 Section 4​

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence. Explain how people who claim to be socialist and communist can be elected to office and honor their oath to uphold the constitution that guarantees a Republican form of government?
Sure, as soon as you can explain to me how any of the policy positions given by Ms. Valdez violate the Constitution in any way whatsoever.

Though, to be fair, while Valdez has no problem admitting to being a democratic socialist, she has never, so far as I've heard, ever claimed to be a communist.

-- A2SG, not that there's anything wrong with that.....
 
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A2SG

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It would still be the Republican party, not the "MAGA" party.
“What’s in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet.”

-- A2SG, or not sweet, as the case may be.....
 
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Postvieww

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You do realize that "Republican" here doesn't mean "GOP", right?
I do realize that a Republican form of government is not the Republican Party!
They would do it the same way we've always done it -- by following the law (including the constitution) and having new elections to replace those officials when their terms expire. (No kings, no potentates, no supreme leader -- elections.)
The constitution which includes the Bill of Rights amendments is not the cornerstone of socialism or communism. The Declaration of Independence which includes these words , “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. “ is anathema to what is being packaged and sold to the American public by socialist and communist candidates.
I'm beginning to think you also don't know what "socialist" and "communist" are either.
You would be wrong. I think that many that promote these failed systems are the ones that don’t know what they are. Many have been duped into believing a fairytale about false equality and free stuff without realizing the loss of personal freedom.
 

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This video breaks down and reveals the ultimate goals of the socialist and communist movements in this country in their own words. Check out the 7:16 marker in the video. National DSA committee member David Jenkins said “ our goal is communism “. One cannot be more clear than that.
 

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The problem isn't the concept or goal in a general sense. The problem is the methods being used by Trump and his administration, and the toadyism of the rest of the GOP in allowing any and all overreaches.

-- A2SG, remember when the GOP used to stand for conservative values, instead of toadying for an authoritarian demagogue? Ah, memories.....
This type of characterization of Trump and the GOP is without factual basis. Only the opinion of a typical Trump hater.
 

wing2000

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The constitution which includes the Bill of Rights amendments is not the cornerstone of socialism or communism. The Declaration of Independence which includes these words , “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. “ is anathema to what is being packaged and sold to the American public by socialist and communist candidates.

In your own words, name one communist candidate and include why you they their policies are based on communism.
 
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Hans Blaster

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I do realize that a Republican form of government is not the Republican Party!
A glimmer of hope in a sea of darkness.
The constitution which includes the Bill of Rights amendments is not the cornerstone of socialism or communism.
The question is the other way around. How does socialism or communism violate the Constitution.
The Declaration of Independence which includes these words , “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. “ is anathema to what is being packaged and sold to the American public by socialist and communist candidates.
The DoI is irrelevant.
You would be wrong. I think that many that promote these failed systems are the ones that don’t know what they are. Many have been duped into believing a fairytale about false equality and free stuff without realizing the loss of personal freedom.
You have yet to disabuse me of that thought. Care to try again?

In what way would a socialist or communist elected to US office violate the US Constitution's guarantee of republican government to the states?
 
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Pommer

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The constitution which includes the Bill of Rights amendments is not the cornerstone of socialism or communism. The Declaration of Independence which includes these words , “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. “ is anathema to what is being packaged and sold to the American public by socialist and communist candidates.
Invokes DOI

You would be wrong. I think that many that promote these failed systems are the ones that don’t know what they are. Many have been duped into believing a fairytale about false equality and free stuff without realizing the loss of personal freedom.
Repudiates DOI
 
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Pommer

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I’m glad that we could agree your opinion and my opinions are opinions.

The DOI says “created equal”; and our good friend pshaws that as wild-eyed liberal tomfoolery; but hasn’t repudiated it by any means?

Okay, explain it to me slowly.
 
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Article I Legislative Branch

  • Section 3 Senate
    • Clause 1 Composition
    • The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.
The DSA Platform

  • Working-Class Democracy: Proposes a unicameral legislature, which means eliminating the Senate entirely in favor of an expanded House of Representatives. [1, 2]

  • Justification: DSA leadership argues the Senate is an undemocratic body because every state gets two senators regardless of population size. [1, 2]
How is the DSA platform not in direct violation of the constitution?
 
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Desk trauma

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Article I Legislative Branch

  • Section 3 Senate
    • Clause 1 Composition
    • The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.
The DSA Platform

  • Working-Class Democracy: Proposes a unicameral legislature, which means eliminating the Senate entirely in favor of an expanded House of Representatives. [1, 2]

  • Justification: DSA leadership argues the Senate is an undemocratic body because every state gets two senators regardless of population size. [1, 2]
How is the DSA platform not in direct violation of the constitution?
It's not unconstitutional to want to change the constitution.
 
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“The Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) organization advocates for abolishing the U.S. Senate as part of its platform. Specific candidates and figures associated with this push include congressional candidate Oliver Larkin(running in Florida's 25th district) and national DSA co-chairs like Ashik Siddiqu. “ source Google. These two DSA candidates propose abolishing the Senate in direct conflict with the constitution claiming the senate is a non democratic institution. Since the constitution declares this nation to be a constitutional republic, their justification for that position is unconstitutional.
 
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