New GOP efforts to make it harder to vote

NxNW · Friday at 9:30 AM

Dale said:
Valletta:: "Remember how many Democrats came out and said many blacks don't have ID?"

No, how many?

Dale said:
I've never heard anyone say that blacks tend not to have ID.

In some locales, birth records for blacks were kept in a different building from whites, and the buildings were burned down. In other cases, blacks were never issued birth certificates at all.

Black elders without birth records could lose vote under SAVE America Act | The Lens

The SAVE America Act may disproportionately impact elderly Black voters who lack birth certificates because they were born at home.

thelensnola.org

Some 21 million voting-age Americans don’t have readily available proof of citizenship, according to the Brennan Center for Justice. But the burden of this lack hits Black Americans with particular force.

While birth certificates are frequently viewed as universal, access to them is uneven, especially for Black Americans born in the Jim Crow South. One-fifth of Black Americans born in 1939 and 1940 were never issued birth certificates, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. And only about one-third of Black Americans have passports, while half of all American adults do.

Dale said:
I have heard that women have a problem because their names have changed. That means their present name isn't the same as the name on their birth certificate. Of course, anyone can have a name change problem if their parents got divorced and their name was changed for that reason. A woman's name can change because of marriage, and divorce.

There is no question that voter ID laws are an attempt to suppress votes from women and minorities.

Hans Blaster · Friday at 11:52 AM

Say it aint so said:
I was in the closed Senate Republican Caucus when the final round of multiple Voter ID bills were being discussed. A handful of the GOP Senators were giddy about the ramifications and literally singled out the prospects of suppressing minority and college voters. Think about that for a minute. Elected officials planning and happy to help deny a fellow American’s constitutional right to vote in order to increase their own chances to hang onto power.

This one from the Wisconsin legislative aid reminds me of another story from that state that really stuck in my mind. It comes from comments made by Cleta Mitchell, a GOP lawyer who was *IN THE ROOM* (and I believe participating in the call) when Trump went demanding extra votes from Georgia. Less than two weeks after a Wisconsin Supreme Court election she told donors at a retreat:

“So they’ve registered them in one line, and then they vote them in the second line,” Mitchell said.

“Wisconsin is a big problem, because of the polling locations on college campuses,” Mitchell continued. “Their goal for the Supreme Court race was to turn out 240,000 college students in that Supreme Court race. And we don’t have anything like that, and we need to figure out how to do that, and how to combat that.”

From:

A top GOP lawyer wants to crack down on the college vote. States already are. • Stateline

A top Republican election lawyer recently caused a stir when she told GOP donors that the party should work to make it harder for college students to vote in key states. But the comments from Cleta Mitchell, who worked closely with then-President Donald Trump to try to overturn the 2020...

stateline.org

as the article notes:

The recent race for a seat on Wisconsin’s Supreme Court, which was won by the liberal candidate backed by Democrats, saw record campus turnout.

Now personally, I'm for making it easy for any eligible voter to vote if they would like to. And as for her first line “So they’ve registered them in one line, and then they vote them in the second line,” yeah, that's how I voted the first time so many years ago. I didn't even have to cross a street. What isn't it that way in all states?

Aldebaran · Friday at 1:34 PM

A2SG said:
It's one thing to put the lock on your own door yourself, but in this case, it's the GOP putting locks on everyone's door, and then trying to make it harder for some people to obtain the key. Or ensure that there's a long line before you can open the door.

-- A2SG, also, to further the analogy, in an area where crime is exceptionally low....

That all sounds nice, but since you have no evidence to offer for any of it, I'll take it with a grain of salt.

Aldebaran · Friday at 1:36 PM

DaisyDay said:
Most people have no problem with the idea of voter id per se, until it is implemented to suppress voting or voting by certain demographics.

Which demographics (other than felons, illegal aliens, etc.) can't vote once they're identified and are registered to vote legally?

Aldebaran · Friday at 1:44 PM

Say it aint so said:
That's true. But what do you call it when one party literally takes data on the voting pattern of voters, based on race, and then enacts legislation to make more difficult to employ those patterns? Or is that fiction?

Your post reminds me of what democrats have been trying to do and are counting on people with skin color to make sure black people will keep democrats in power.

The Democrats’ Big Decision: Black Representation or More Blue Seats?
But the next act in the drama over Black representation will be driven in part by Democratic leaders, some of them Black, who face a difficult decision. Do they preserve the majority-Black, overwhelmingly Democratic districts in blue states like New York, Illinois, Maryland and New Jersey? Or do they maximize Democratic representation in the House by diluting urban districts dominated by Black voters and expanding their boundaries into the suburbs. Doing the latter would allow them to target Republican House members in those states.

Aldebaran · Friday at 1:50 PM

NxNW said:
No, how many?

In some locales, birth records for blacks were kept in a different building from whites, and the buildings were burned down. In other cases, blacks were never issued birth certificates at all.

Black elders without birth records could lose vote under SAVE America Act | The Lens

The SAVE America Act may disproportionately impact elderly Black voters who lack birth certificates because they were born at home.

thelensnola.org

Some 21 million voting-age Americans don’t have readily available proof of citizenship, according to the Brennan Center for Justice. But the burden of this lack hits Black Americans with particular force.

While birth certificates are frequently viewed as universal, access to them is uneven, especially for Black Americans born in the Jim Crow South. One-fifth of Black Americans born in 1939 and 1940 were never issued birth certificates, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. And only about one-third of Black Americans have passports, while half of all American adults do.

There is no question that voter ID laws are an attempt to suppress votes from women and minorities.

Instead of assuming black people and other minorities can't get an ID to vote, try asking black people themselves rather than trying to be enraged for them:

MarcusGregor · Friday at 1:50 PM

Aldebaran said:
Your post reminds me of what democrats have been trying to do and are counting on people with skin color to make sure black people will keep democrats in power.

The Democrats’ Big Decision: Black Representation or More Blue Seats?
But the next act in the drama over Black representation will be driven in part by Democratic leaders, some of them Black, who face a difficult decision. Do they preserve the majority-Black, overwhelmingly Democratic districts in blue states like New York, Illinois, Maryland and New Jersey? Or do they maximize Democratic representation in the House by diluting urban districts dominated by Black voters and expanding their boundaries into the suburbs. Doing the latter would allow them to target Republican House members in those states.

Like how the Republicans do the white people and Christians?

MarcusGregor · Friday at 1:58 PM

Aldebaran said:
Instead of assuming black people and other minorities can't get an ID to vote, try asking black people themselves rather than trying to be enraged for them:

There is a difference between anecdotal "data" and actual data.

Republicans seem to trust the data because they used actual data to identify what kinds of IDs and documentation people of color were less likely to have and then intentionally made those items what is required to vote in their voter id bills.

Aldebaran · Friday at 3:03 PM

MarcusGregor said:
Like how the Republicans do the white people and Christians?

Sounds like you're about to make a "whataboutism", but you didn't elaborate so I have no idea what your point is.

Aldebaran · Friday at 3:06 PM

MarcusGregor said:
There is a difference between anecdotal "data" and actual data.

Republicans seem to trust the data because they used actual data to identify what kinds of IDs and documentation people of color were less likely to have and then intentionally made those items what is required to vote in their voter id bills.

Sounds to me that evidence isn't evidence if it contradicts the going narrative. Maybe someone should tell the black people on the street that they don't know what they're talking about when they claim to have an ID. Personally, I think it's rather racist for a white person to claim that black people just aren't able to get a government issued ID to vote. Even when black people themselves will tell you that they can get an ID with no problem, We're supposed to believe that they can't, and that they need our help in doing so.

MarcusGregor · Friday at 3:22 PM

Aldebaran said:
Sounds to me that evidence isn't evidence if it contradicts the going narrative. Maybe someone should tell the black people on the street that they don't know what they're talking about when they claim to have an ID. Personally, I think it's rather racist for a white person to claim that black people just aren't able to get a government issued ID to vote. Even when black people themselves will tell you that they can get an ID with no problem, We're supposed to believe that they can't, and that they need our help in doing so.

Sounds to me like actual data and outcomes are being deliberately misinterpreted or ignored because what they actually show contradicts a narrative. Individuals on the street may have a range of different experiences, many positive or that seem to contradict what actual statistical data shows to be true. That's the nature of anecdotes versus actual data. I'm not sure why anyone would try to deliberately not understand that. It's very simple. Unless you interview EVERY person individually you can't assume that any number of individual experiences represents the experiences of the group as a whole.

The fact that my parents are not divorced, and I know many friends whose parents are also not divorced does not mean that the 40% of all first marriages end in divorce statistic isn't reality.

MarcusGregor · Friday at 3:30 PM

Aldebaran said:
Sounds like you're about to make a "whataboutism", but you didn't elaborate so I have no idea what your point is.

Why should we be concerned with Democrats courting groups that have historically voted for them when the Republicans do the exact same thing? That's my point. It seems like what's being implied is just that whatever Democrats do is bad while Republicans doing the same thing isn't.

Valletta · Friday at 4:06 PM

NxNW said:
While birth certificates are frequently viewed as universal, access to them is uneven, especially for Black Americans born in the Jim Crow South. One-fifth of Black Americans born in 1939 and 1940 were never issued birth certificates, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. And only about one-third of Black Americans have passports, while half of all American adults do.
There is no question that voter ID laws are an attempt to suppress votes from women and minorities.

Realize that was a long time ago, and those affected have certainly had to have various forms of ID since that time. Even European countries that were heavily bombed during World War II with numerous records destroyed have been able to successfully implement voter ID. For the Americans that don't currently have valid ID there are numerous alternatives through the government and non-profits to help. We all should be working on getting every citizen an ID to register to vote rather than going against election integrity legislation.

Aldebaran · Friday at 4:31 PM

MarcusGregor said:
Sounds to me like actual data and outcomes are being deliberately misinterpreted or ignored because what they actually show contradicts a narrative. Individuals on the street may have a range of different experiences, many positive or that seem to contradict what actual statistical data shows to be true. That's the nature of anecdotes versus actual data. I'm not sure why anyone would try to deliberately not understand that. It's very simple. Unless you interview EVERY person individually you can't assume that any number of individual experiences represents the experiences of the group as a whole.

The fact that my parents are not divorced, and I know many friends whose parents are also not divorced does not mean that the 40% of all first marriages end in divorce statistic isn't reality.

None of what you said is evidence that black people can't get an ID to vote.

Aldebaran · Friday at 4:34 PM

MarcusGregor said:
Why should we be concerned with Democrats courting groups that have historically voted for them when the Republicans do the exact same thing? That's my point. It seems like what's being implied is just that whatever Democrats do is bad while Republicans doing the same thing isn't.

If democrat-led groups are routinely lying to people by telling them that they aren't able to get an ID to vote simply because of their skin color, that's not courting. It's nothing more than racism, and even victimizing those people even further.
As for Republicans vs. Democrats--The Republicans truthfully tell the public how they are able to get an ID to vote with. That's different than telling people that they aren't able to do so because of their skin color and they can't even so much as vote if they don't have a white Democrat's help.

DaisyDay · Friday at 4:44 PM

Aldebaran said:
Your post reminds me of what democrats have been trying to do and are counting on people with skin color to make sure black people will keep democrats in power.

As opposed to the invisible men? Perhaps you meant "people of color"?

Aldebaran said:
None of what you said is evidence that black people can't get an ID to vote.

No one has said that. Republicans have tried to make getting voter ids more difficult for black people.

NxNW · Friday at 9:30 PM

Aldebaran said:
Instead of assuming black people and other minorities can't get an ID to vote,

Who made such an assumption?

Aldebaran said:
try asking black people themselves rather than trying to be enraged for them:

They've already explained it themselves.

Aldebaran · Friday at 9:33 PM

DaisyDay said:
No one has said that. Republicans have tried to make getting voter ids more difficult for black people.

An often repeated claim that has never been proven.

Aldebaran · Friday at 9:35 PM

NxNW said:
Who made such an assumption?

They've already explained it themselves.

Right, as I noted in post #386. Some people don't believe them though. The chosen narrative wasn't being adhered to.

Dale · Friday at 10:32 PM

NxNW said:
No, how many?

In some locales, birth records for blacks were kept in a different building from whites, and the buildings were burned down. In other cases, blacks were never issued birth certificates at all.

Black elders without birth records could lose vote under SAVE America Act | The Lens

The SAVE America Act may disproportionately impact elderly Black voters who lack birth certificates because they were born at home.

thelensnola.org

Some 21 million voting-age Americans don’t have readily available proof of citizenship, according to the Brennan Center for Justice. But the burden of this lack hits Black Americans with particular force.

While birth certificates are frequently viewed as universal, access to them is uneven, especially for Black Americans born in the Jim Crow South. One-fifth of Black Americans born in 1939 and 1940 were never issued birth certificates, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. And only about one-third of Black Americans have passports, while half of all American adults do.

There is no question that voter ID laws are an attempt to suppress votes from women and minorities.

Thanks for that information!

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New GOP efforts to make it harder to vote

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