On the part on the OT martyr, yes.
But on Christians, the dead in Christ and those still alive when the Jesus comes.
Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Adventist view on the thousand years of the Millennium
- Thread starter reddogs
- Start date
But on Christians, the dead in Christ and those still alive when the Jesus comes.
- Sep 23, 2005
- 33,248
- 6,451
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Then w
Then why does it not say that?
It says:
Revelation 20:4 (NKJV)
The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
That is more specific
Then why does it not say that?
It says:
Revelation 20:4 (NKJV)
The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
That is more specific
Upvote
0
- Nov 26, 2019
- 17,820
- 9,621
- 51
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Generic Orthodox Christian
- Marital Status
- Celibate
Since the Orthodox Church rejected Chiliasm in 381 AD, the correct interpretation of Revelation 20:4-6 from our perspective would be a reference to those were martyred for or suffered as confessors on account of Christ or endured faithfully with him in an equivalent vocation (remember, Monasticism and indeed Holy Matrimony are referred to as forms of martyrdom in the Patristic corpus).
Upvote
0
- Sep 23, 2005
- 33,248
- 6,451
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Ok, so to flesh this out a bit more, would you agree with Cyprian's statement?
The Holy Spirit shows and predicts by Solomon, saying: “And although in the sight of men they suffered torments, yet their hope is full of immortality. And having been troubled in a few things, they shall be in many happily ordered, because God has tried them, and has found them worthy of Himself. As gold in the furnace, He hath tried them; and as whole burnt-offerings of sacrifice, He hath received them, and in its season there will be respect of them. They will shine and run about as sparks in a place set with reeds.3799 They shall judge the nations, and have dominion over the peoples; and their Lord shall reign for ever.”3800 In the same also our vengeance is described, and the repentance of those who persecute and molest us is announced. “Then,” saith he, “shall the righteous stand in great constancy before such as have 506afflicted them, and who have taken away their labours; when they see it, they shall be troubled with a horrible fear: and they shall marvel at the suddenness of their unexpected salvation, saying among themselves, repenting and groaning for anguish of spirit, These are they whom we had sometime in derision and as a proverb of reproach. We fools counted their life madness, and their end to be without honour. How are they numbered among the children of God, and their lot is among the saints! Therefore have we erred from the way of truth, and the light of righteousness hath not shined unto us, and the sun hath not risen upon us. We have been wearied in the way of unrighteousness and perdition, and have walked through hard deserts, but have not known the way of the Lord. What hath pride profited us, or what hath the boasting of riches brought to us? All these things have passed away like a shadow.” Likewise in the cxvth Psalm is shown the price and the reward of suffering: “Precious,” it says, “in the sight of the Lord is the death of His saints.”3801 In the cxxvth Psalm also is expressed the sadness of the struggle, and the joy of the retribution: “They who sow,” it says, “in tears, shall reap in joy. As they walked, they walked and wept, casting their seeds; but as they come again, they shall come in exultation, bearing their sheaves.”3802 And again, in the cxviiith Psalm: “Blessed are those that are undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the Lord. Blessed are they who search His testimonies, and seek Him out with their whole heart.”3803 Moreover, the Lord in the Gospel, Himself the avenger of our persecution and the rewarder of our suffering, says: “Blessed are they who suffer persecution for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”3804 And again: “Blessed shall ye be when men shall hate you, and shall separate you, and shall expel you, and shall revile your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake. Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy; for, behold, your reward is great in heaven.”3805 And once more: “Whosoever shall lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.”3806 Nor do the rewards of the divine promise attend those alone who are reproached and slain; but if the passion itself be wanting to the faithful, while their faith has remained sound and unconquered, and having forsaken and contemned all his possessions, the Christian has shown that he is following Christ, even he also is honoured by Christ among the martyrs, as He Himself promises and says: “There is no man that leaveth house, or land, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God’s sake, but shall receive seven times as much in this present time, and in the world to come eternal life.”3807
In the Apocalypse also He says the same thing: “And I saw,” saith he, “the souls of them that were slain for the name of Jesus and the word of God.” And when he had placed those who were slain in the first place, he added, saying: “And whosoever had not worshipped the image of the beast, neither had received his mark upon their forehead or in their hand;” all these he joins together, as seen by him at one time in the same place, and says, “And they lived and reigned with Christ.”3808 He says that all live and reign with Christ, not only who have been slain; but even whosoever, standing in firmness of the faith and in the fear of God, have not worshipped the image of the beast, and have not consented to his deadly and sacrilegious edicts.
He seems to take two groups, those killed for Christ, and those who standing firm in the faith have not worshipped the image of the beast or consented to his edicts.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
If you mean about the OT martyrs, I believe it did refer to the saints in the Old Testament.
The "word" of God in the text, which bears Strong#G3056, in Greek is "λόγος logos" whose presence were recorded in the Old Testament from 2Samuel to Malachi.
G3056 (Thayer Greek-English Lexicon)
λόγος logos
1) of speech
Rev 20:4 ThenG2532 I sawG3708 R1thronesG2362, and R2they satG2523 on them, and R3judgmentG2917 was givenG1325 to them. And I saw R4the soulsG5590 of thoseG3588 who had been beheadedG3990 becauseG1223 of N1their R5testimonyG3141 of JesusG2424 and becauseG1223 of the wordG3056 of GodG2316, and those whoG3748 had not R6worshipedG4352 the beastG2342 orG3761 his imageG1504, and had not receivedG2983 the R7markG5480 on their foreheadG3359 and on their handG5495; and they R8came to lifeG2198 and R9reignedG936 with ChristG5547 for a thousandG5507 yearsG2094.
(ABP+) 2Sa 12:25 AndG2532 he sentG649 byG1722 the handG5495 of NathanG* theG3588 prophet;G4396 andG2532 calledG2564 G3588 his nameG3686 G1473 Jedidiah,G* byG1722 the wordG3056 of the LORD.G2962
(ABP+) Mal 1:1 The concernG3024.1 of the wordG3056 of the LORD G2962 overG1909 G3588 IsraelG* byG1722 the handG5495 of his messenger.G32 G1473
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Sep 23, 2005
- 33,248
- 6,451
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
So only martyrs for Jesus and the word, and those who did not receive the mark are in that first resurrection, not all believers?
Upvote
0
- Sep 23, 2005
- 33,248
- 6,451
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
And now you have moved again from the text in question in Rev. 20. It doesn't say all believers.
Revelation 20:4-6
4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. (ESV)
This text says those who who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands
That is of a more limited scope
- Martyrs for the testimony of Jesus and the word of God
- Those who did not worship the beast or receive the mark.
Also, Adventists, in regards to the great white throne judgment, say it only deals with the cases of the wicked. But it doesn't say that either.
Revelation 20:11-15
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (ESV)
It does not say none of them were found in the book of life because they were all evil. It says whoever was not found in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
So neither of the texts Adventists build their framework around actually describe what they claim. The first resurrection is a more limited group. The second shows all the dead great and small, and it is only those who are not found in the book of life that are thrown into the lake of fire.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
- Locked
