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Gunny

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What's interesting is how much God speaks in his prophetic word (OT & NT) about the future and the great decline in society.
"Let the word of God be true and every man a liar"
Thank you, Holy Spirit for leading your children into all truth.
 
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Desk trauma

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What's interesting is how much God speaks in his prophetic word (OT & NT) about the future and the great decline in society.
"Let the word of God be true and every man a liar"
Thank you, Holy Spirit for leading your children into all truth.
The older generation bemoaning the decline of society is at least as old as written language. I’m not convinced it has been a down hill slide from Samaria onwards.
 
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Gunny

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The older generation bemoaning the decline of society is at least as old as written language. I’m not convinced it has been a down hill slide from Samaria onwards.
God's children, Sons and Daughters of the Most High God trust implicitly God's Word and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. My mother taught me to read prior to attending 1st grade. She gave me a Bible, gave me guidance in prayer. She stated, I was going to need Gods Word and prayer. Growing up in a very toxic alcoholic (father) home. I came to know the presence of God at the age of six. I've had a biblical worldview since grade school. Lord, thank you for Your Word, Your Son and the Holy Spirit. Jesus, thank you for being my Savior and friend for sixty three years.

Desk trauma, May God, Mightily bless you and your loved ones, In Jesus's Name! May, You experience the Peace of God that is truly beyond human understanding!

John17:14 " I have given them your word and the world hates them because they do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world."
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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The consequence is that people are afflicted by goodness-narcissism, which is the worst form of sinfulness.
"Goodness-narcissism" seems to be a term denoting lack of humility and lack or responsibility that comes with owning the dark side of our nature. But we are very good at projecting it on to others. Religious and political biases seem to make not much difference. They are simply different modes. Unless we as individuals can become honest with ourselves, acknowledging our dark sides, and not just a meaningless generalization but specifics, we have no share in conversion. What I mean is that there are plenty of people who acknowledge they are sinful but then become defensive when specific sins are pointed out.
 
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Gunny

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"Goodness-narcissism" seems to be a term denoting lack of humility and lack or responsibility that comes with owning the dark side of our nature. But we are very good at projecting it on to others. Religious and political biases seem to make not much difference. They are simply different modes. Unless we as individuals can become honest with ourselves, acknowledging our dark sides, and not just a meaningless generalization but specifics, we have no share in conversion. What I mean is that there are plenty of people who acknowledge they are sinful but then become defensive when specific sins are pointed out.
Amen. Apostle Paul understood his fallen nature when he referred to himself as a wretched man.
"O wretched man that I am, the good that which I should do I don't, the evil that which I shouldn't do, I do."
 
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Desk trauma

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God's children, Sons and Daughters of the Most High God trust implicitly God's Word and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. My mother taught me to read prior to attending 1st grade. She gave me a Bible, gave me guidance in prayer. She stated, I was going to need Gods Word and prayer. Growing up in a very toxic alcoholic (father) home. I came to know the presence of God at the age of six. I've had a biblical worldview since grade school. Lord, thank you for Your Word, Your Son and the Holy Spirit. Jesus, thank you for being my Savior and friend for sixty three years.

Desk trauma, May God, Mightily bless you and your loved ones, In Jesus's Name! May, You experience the Peace of God that is truly beyond human understanding!

John17:14 " I have given them your word and the world hates them because they do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world."
Not sure what any of that has to do with my post.
 
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Teofrastus

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Doing good deeds is not equivalent to narcissism, but identifying oneself with the good is narcissism. People fall into that trap whenever they assume they already know what "the good" is and then fuse their self‑image with that supposed knowledge. At that point, goodness stops being a practice and becomes a self-congratulating identity.

It's the same problem Jesus faced with the radical Pharisees. They were convinced that their understanding of "the good" was complete and authoritative, and they demanded that others submit to their definition. In other words, they didn't merely pursue goodness, they claimed ownership of it and used that claim to police others. That is how they became a "brood of vipers."
 
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partinobodycular

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Doing good deeds is not equivalent to narcissism, but identifying oneself with the good is narcissism. People fall into that trap whenever they assume they already know what "the good" is and then fuse their self‑image with that supposed knowledge. At that point, goodness stops being a practice and becomes a self-congratulating identity.

It's the same problem Jesus faced with the radical Pharisees. They were convinced that their understanding of "the good" was complete and authoritative, and they demanded that others submit to their definition. In other words, they didn't merely pursue goodness, they claimed ownership of it and used that claim to police others. That is how they became a "brood of vipers."

Have you got a mirror handy? Just wondering.
 
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partinobodycular

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The older generation bemoaning the decline of society is at least as old as written language. I’m not convinced it has been a down hill slide from Samaria onwards.

If memory serves me, the supposed decline of humanity literally began 4.4 mya, when Grandpa Ardi said to Grandma Ardi... "I fear that humanity is doomed, for the youth of today have entirely forgotten how to properly climb trees."
 
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Larniavc

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"Goodness-narcissism" seems to be a term denoting lack of humility and lack or responsibility that comes with owning the dark side of our nature.
It’s used so the previous interlocutor can avoid being good.
 
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Hans Blaster

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No, without the doctrine of original sin, people tend to become political idealists, and once that happens, things quickly go downhill.
What?

Original sin can be easily dealt with. A quick baptism before your can hold up your own head will do. Your parents should have taken care of that for you. After that there is no need to worry about "original sin" (at least until you have your own infant you'd like to keep out of the bad place.)
This is a classic Christian-anthropological insight going back to Augustine: when a society forgets that human beings are divided, fallible, and prone to self‑deception, it begins to imagine that political systems can be perfected.

Once the doctrine of original sin disappears, politics turns into a moral crusade rather than a prudential art. Opponents are no longer fellow sinners but embodiments of evil; institutions are expected to achieve purity rather than stability; compromise becomes betrayal; and coercion is justified "for the sake of the good."

This pursuit of institutional purity takes many forms: environmental purity, where climate policy becomes a moral litmus test; LGBTQ+ purity, where mandatory training is used to prevent moral contamination; social-justice purity, where minor social missteps are punished as ethical violations; and scientific or technocratic purity, where science is treated as a moral authority rather than a fallible method of inquiry.

Institutional purity means denying human ambivalence, denying imperfection, and denying the reality of trade-offs. And once these denials harden, they lead inevitably to absolutism.
 
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Larniavc

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People fall into that trap whenever they assume they already know what "the good" is and then fuse their self‑image with that supposed knowledge.
A criticism easily levelled at Christians. Good is clearly subjective.
 
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Neogaia777

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A criticism easily levelled at Christians. Good is clearly subjective.
There is general good, or is what is considered or deemed good most of the time. When most societies/tribes are functioning pretty normally or usually and all of that, etc. There is a general good that is considered good most of the time. It's when the world/societies/tribes are not functioning well or mostly normally that those lines can sometimes get blurred some of the time. It's a mostly temporary situation when that happens though most of the time.
 
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Neogaia777

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There is general good, or is what is considered or deemed good most of the time. When most societies/tribes are functioning pretty normally or usually and all of that, etc. There is a general good that is considered good most of the time. It's when the world/societies/tribes are not functioning well or mostly normally that those lines can sometimes get blurred some of the time. It's a mostly temporary situation when that happens though most of the time.
There's also the only remotely possible, to probably won't ever happen much, unique situations people like to use to show that morality is relative, but that most won't ever face or ever be in most of the time, to show that morality is relative, but that most people won't ever be in most of the time, etc. Making them only temporary, or just not true most of the time, etc. Which would mean that there is a general morality that is mostly true/good/right most of the time, etc.

Morality in those specfic cases (the ones that people like to use to show that morality is different, or relative a lot of the time) there's usually not a right or wrong answer to most of the time, etc. But because they're mostly rare, still means that there is general morality that is most of the time still good/moral/right most of the time.

Take Care/God Bless.
 
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Larniavc

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There's also the only remotely possible, to probably won't ever happen much, unique situations people like to use to show that morality is relative, but that most won't ever face or ever be in most of the time, to show that morality is relative, but that most people won't ever be in most of the time, etc. Making them only temporary, or just not true most of the time, etc. Which would mean that there is a general morality that is mostly true/good/right most of the time, etc.

Morality in those specfic cases (the ones that people like to use to show that morality is different, or relative a lot of the time) there's usually not a right or wrong answer to most of the time, etc. But because they're mostly rare, still means that there is general morality that is most of the time still good/moral/right most of the time.

Take Care/God Bless.
I don’t believe it; I both understand and agree with you!

What have you done with the real Neogaia777?
 
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Neogaia777

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I don’t believe it; I both understand and agree with you!

What have you done with the real Neogaia777?
I'm right here! Lol.

Take Care Man.
 
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Teofrastus

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What?

Original sin can be easily dealt with. A quick baptism before your can hold up your own head will do. Your parents should have taken care of that for you. After that there is no need to worry about "original sin" (at least until you have your own infant you'd like to keep out of the bad place.)
Baptism removes the guilt of original sin, but not all of its consequences. It removes the inherited state of alienation from God, but it does not remove concupiscence (the inclination towards sin), mortality or suffering.

The baptized person is reconciled to God, but still experiences the woundedness of human nature.
 
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