Two requests for the Sabbaterians at CF

John Mash said:

The New Covenant is still in the future. Do you know what constitutes those 2 houses?

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Rom 10:6-8; Deut 29:1, 30:6;10-14 state differently

Hentenza said:

You are reading into the verses you posted. Let me give you an easy one.

“For in finding fault with the people, He says, “Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, When I will bring about a new covenant With the house of Israel and the house of Judah,”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8‬:‭8‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 8:8 (NASB2020) - For in finding fault with the peopl - Bible App

For in finding fault with the people, He says, “Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, When I will bring about a new covenant With the house of Israel and the house of Judah,

bible.com

“Days are coming”. You can’t misread this. If the days are coming then the days have not happened yet.

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Rom 10:6-8; Deut 29:1, 30:6;10-14 say different.

Hentenza said:

They do not. As I stated in my post before this one you are reading into the verses what is not there. Secondly, both of us have bibles and are capable of reading it. Merely posting verses that you think help you does not further your argument.

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Rom 10:6-8; Deut 29:1, 30:6;10-14 say different. Don't you remember?

You should.

Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! In (Gen.2:2-5) (v.2) And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. (v.3) And God blessed the seventh day (every seventh day of the week is a blessed and holy day) and sanctified it (it is a day that is separated (sanctified) for a purpose) because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. (v.5) “and there was not a man to till the ground.” There was not a Jew, Catholic, Baptist, or Seventh Day Adventist; in fact, there was not a Christian when He constituted the Sabbath Day!

Let’s take a look and see what Jesus did when he came in the flesh, And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Luke 4:14-16)

The word says in 1 Peter 2: 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: But it’s seems people refuse this part of following in Jesus steps, so then how can they say they are true Christians.

Remember the Church started in the Wilderness in Acts 7: 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us: Theses are the Hebrew Israelites, didn’t Paul say in Romans 9: 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

If you are a true Christian, which means a follower of Christ or to be Christ like; then we all should be following what's written in the word of God. Remember people grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Hentenza said:

Let me preface my post by stating the words of Paul.

“Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day— things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Colossians 2:16-17 (NASB2020) - Therefore, no one is to act as your - Bible App

Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day— things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance

bible.com

I hold no judgement for those who choose to keep the Saturday sabbath. I hold no judgement for those who have no judgement for those who rest on Sunday. To you please be blessed and go in peace.

Now to those who judge those that rest on Sunday and consider them sinners I have two requests for you.

1. Please Post biblical evidence that anyone kept the sabbath prior to Moses.

2. Please post a verse from the new covenant that teaches that the Christian is required to rest on Saturday.

Please keep the discussion on topic to the OP.

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The 7th day Sabbath in Exodus 20:8 does not mention new moon, meat, or festivals. Colossians 2:16 is speaking about the High Sabbath days pertaining to the Feast of Unleavened Bread on Nisan 15 or Feast of Tabernacles on Tishri 15, etc ..are all based on the lunar calendar where months begin on the New Moon. Blessings Brother.

John Mash said:

The 7th day Sabbath in Exodus 20:8 does not mention new moon, meat, or festivals. Colossians 2:16 is speaking about the High Sabbath days pertaining to the Feast of Unleavened Bread on Nisan 15 or Feast of Tabernacles on Tishri 15, etc ..are all based on the lunar calendar where months begin on the New Moon. Blessings Brother.

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There is no such thing as a "High Sabbath". What you refer to are called Holy Convocations. Many of them could fall on any day of the week. The Gospels refer to the Sabbath on which God rested (in the tomb) as a "high day", because one of those Holy Convocations happened to fall on that Sabbath. Whatever day of the week a Holy Convocation fell on would be considered a "high day".

John Mash said:

The 7th day Sabbath in Exodus 20:8 does not mention new moon, meat, or festivals. Colossians 2:16 is speaking about the High Sabbath days pertaining to the Feast of Unleavened Bread on Nisan 15 or Feast of Tabernacles on Tishri 15, etc ..are all based on the lunar calendar where months begin on the New Moon. Blessings Brother.

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Try anything to avoid the fact that scripture in the New Testament tells Jews they are no longer under the dictates of the Old Covenant requirements and Gentiles never were. Col 2:16 is very plain: feast Sabbaths, and weekly Sabbaths are now shadows, and the reality is Jesus. Jesus is our Rest. Jesus gives us the spiritual rest that the Old Covenant Sabbath didn't. Eph 2, Gal 3, and 2Cor3 fully support Col 2:16. 1Jn3 tells us that we belong to the truth if we believe the one God sent and keep His command to love others. If the Old Covenant Sabbath is so important that man will lose his salvation if he doesn't observe it, why isn't it ever mentioned in the New Testament?

Studyman said:

They were Shadows as well, when the Christ created them and gave them to His People. And Christ was the reality then as well. They still are shadows of things yet to be fulfilled and will remain shadows until the Christ returns to fulfill ALL that He promised to fulfill. At least this is what the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches.

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Where did you come up with the thought that the Sabbath was a shadow when it was definitely a reality? If Jesus were a reality back then why did they need to have the sacrificial system?

Studyman said:

Actually Bob, this is a misrepresentation of both Jesus and Paul's teaching, according to what is actually written in my understanding. First, the Law/Covenant that changed, that wasn't ADDED until 430 years after God said "Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws", was the Priesthood Covenant God made with Levi after the Golden calf event. That is, when Israel created an image of God after the likeness of the sacrifice God prepared for them and declared, "This is the God that brought us out of sin (Egypt)".

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Believe what you wish. I believe God gave Abraham the way he asked him to live, but it certainly was not the covenant given to Israel.
What about God's words in Deut 5??? Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The Lord spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain.

I suppose you have read that agreement that God even wrote on stone, and God finished by dictating the remainder of His wishes for the Israelites to Moses???? And now you are telling us that all that Abraham had? Come on brother, get real.

Studyman said:

The Jesus "of the Bible" said every teaching of the Law and Prophets will remain, until all is fulfilled, according to the Jesus of the Bible. The Feasts of the Christ, which are "shadows" of things yet to be fulfilled, were observed by the Disciples after Jesus ascended to His Father and my Father. He has Yet to return and, as HE Himself said:

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Where did you come up with the idea that the eight feast days were "feasts of Christ"?

All Jesus came to fulfill, Jesus accomplished. He brought an end to the Law and the prophecies about His coming. If that is not true then Jews are still under ALL of the commands of the covenant given only to them. That would include the sacrificial system administered by the Levites. remember Gentiles were never under all those laws. Scripture is so plain concerning this issue.

Studyman said:

Matt. 13: 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, "let him hear".

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Using those verses in this debate seems to me that you have really judged me. Personally, I would never place myself as a judge or even hint such by using verses like you have taken upon yourself to do.

Studyman said:

In Col. 2, Paul is telling these Faithful Colossians not to let men judge them for their voluntary humility of honoring and respecting and trusting God in His Instruction in Righteousness. God knew we would be placed in a world in which "many" would call Him Lord, Lord, but reject His, that is the Christ, by whom all things were created, including His Holy Sabbaths and His Holy Feasts HE created specifically "for man". And that they would create their own image of God in the likeness of the sacrifice God would provide for them, and create their own high days in worship of their image. And declare "This is the God that brought us out of Sin". It was all foretold in the Law and Prophets, and both Jesus and Paul warned of the very same thing.

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That is what you would like for it to say, but we know that is not the case. We know that those days were shadows of the reality that Jesus is our rest. He is our feast, and it is not what we do (keeping days); it is what Jesus has done for each of us.

Studyman said:

The poster you replied to wasn't avoiding any fact of Scripture. He just doesn't read scripture through the prism of popular religious dogma, that promote the teaching that Christ, the Holy One of Israel, created Laws impossible for men to obey, then killed them when they didn't obey.

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Oh, so God didn't know beforehand that the Israelites couldn't live up to all His standards, and He thought they would? I wonder why it is that even today we fail to live up to God's standard of loving each other as Jesus loves us? Why did Jesus bother to go through all He did if we could live up to God's standard without Him?

Studyman said:

I don't know Him, but he seemed to agree with "the Christ's" teaching concerning whose "Words" His People are to to "live by".

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Studyman said:

Jesus was a mortal human that this Christ became.

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Do you believe that Jesus was eternal God from the moment He was conceived in Mary's womb?

Studyman said:

I believe what is written, that Christ, the Rock of Israel, became a mortal man that overcame sin by the same Faith He required from all other humans.

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Good and answer, let me back what you saying with Bible, because this is hard for some people to understand. Paul say in 1 Corinthians 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Now let's take a look at what Jesus say in John 17: 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Bro.T said:

Good and answer, let me back what you saying with Bible, because this is hard for some people to understand. Paul say in 1 Corinthians 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Now let's take a look at what Jesus say in John 17: 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

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His Words, not ours.

Studyman said:

His Words, not ours.

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Still waiting for a yes or no answer to my question.