Religious Persecution by the President of the United States

ThatRobGuy · Jul 13, 2026

GoldenBoy89 said:
Is your solution that young Muslim girls shouldn't be wearing a hijab or that all of these people should simply be excluded from our religiously pluralistic society where freedom of religion is a constitutional guarantee?

Yes, some religious values don't fit well with a westernized liberal society.

That's not unique, despite having "freedom of religion" in a broad sense (of "you can believe in whatever god you want, or not believe), there are certain religious activities we specifically curtail. For example, the polygamy practices of the FLDS (which, despite not being state sanctioned marriage, still goes on "in the eyes of the church" out there, and often goes hand-in-hand with some rather predatory behavior that involves girls under the age of 18.

And when a community is insular and instills as "don't talk to outsiders" values system, it makes tracking it down extremely difficult due to underreporting.

I wouldn't want to be importing more FLDS members from other countries.

ThatRobGuy · Jul 13, 2026

Maine Progressive said:
So the purpose of the hijab: Functions as a shield for women's dignity, allowing them to be valued for their character and intellect rather than their physical

So the purpose of the catholic school girl’s uniform: Encouraging Modesty and Professionalism

So the purpose of the conservative Jewish girl’s religious garb: Kippah: Wearing it is a constant symbol of submission to God's authority. Tallit: a visual reminder of God’s commandments.

So the purpose of the conservative Christian girl’s attire: If makeup is worn, it tends to be natural, understated, and intended to enhance rather than draw dramatic attention. Accessories are generally simple and classic. Prominent cross necklaces are common to outwardly display faith. Hairstyles are often kept long or styled neatly, emphasizing traditional femininity.

Every single one of those clothing articles worn to express religious faith can easily be demonized and all of them have been in the past and still are by those who have fallen into the various sophistries of fear and loathing.

What we're talking about here is more than just an expression of religious faith.

Are those other things worn within the context of "you need to cover up because it's your fault if you make a man lust so much he can't help himself but to force himself on your, and you will be punished and bring dishonor to your family"? And is that rationale applied to 5 year olds?

...because basically it's no different than the same warped train of thought of "well, what was she wearing?" in response to an assault, taken to its logical conclusion. It's especially twisted when considering the implications of extending that logic to little girls.

GoldenBoy89 · Jul 13, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
It's reflective of the general attitudes about women/girls that are pervasive in the culture.

Our president was friends with a known, convicted pedophile who ran an international ring of sexual abuse of young girls. Maybe there's a few other cultures we could be singling out.

GoldenBoy89 · Jul 13, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
Yes, some religious values don't fit well with a westernized liberal society.

That's what laws are for.

ThatRobGuy said:
I wouldn't want to be importing more FLDS members from other countries.

We aren't "importing" anyone. People move here, on their own, and have the freedom to practice their religion without persecution from the goverment.

Some people, like the president, don't like that and use these people's presence in our country and foreign customs to rile up their hateful base ahead of a midterm election. Some others come onto the internet and defend this nonsense.

Maine Progressive · Jul 13, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
What we're talking about here is more than just an expression of religious faith.

Are those other things worn within the context of "you need to cover up because it's your fault if you make a man lust so much he can't help himself but to force himself on your, and you will be punished and bring dishonor to your family"? And is that rationale applied to 5 year olds?

...because basically it's no different than the same warped train of thought of "well, what was she wearing?" in response to an assault, taken to its logical conclusion. It's especially twisted when considering the implications of extending that logic to little girls.

What we are actually talking about here is the direct result of fear and loathing. Are we so locked in that we are unable to admit that the vast majority of muslim American citizens intend nothing more from the hijab but to honor their faith? It means to them, what it means to 99% of American muslims…an expression of integrity. An expression of ‘see me for my value as a person’. But no, this unfortunately, is not something those of us steeped in fear and loathing are capable of understanding. They don’t wear it for fear of men’s lust. But fear is clearly the guiding principle here. No different than the fear of immigrants. No different than all the past fears of the bogeymen rampant among all the past nationalities and religions that have entered our American history. So we use one or two anecdotes of horrible crimes committed by a handful of muslims as if that was proof of all. Yet blind to the equally horrible crimes committed by all the other citizens of our country in numbers equal to and often greater.
And we use the efforts of a muslim community to improve their safety as proof that they harbor evil intent.
It might be helpful to read some of the stuff by Henry Ford or J.D. Rockefeller or George Wallace or Father Coughlin

Hans Blaster · Jul 13, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
It's reflective of the general attitudes about women/girls that are pervasive in the culture.

Just because we legally forbid marriage on paper before 18 doesn't mean that the underlying behaviors aren't taking place.

Somali Sexual Assault in Minneapolis: The Debate Over Assimilation

Somali survivors in Minneapolis speak out on sexual assault, as institutions face criticism and debates over assimilation and accountability intensify.

survivorsrights.com

Look at the problematic nature of this story... apart from the disgusting details of the actual events, the fact that his family and Somali community religious leaders came forward to protest his sentencing on the basis that "he was a good man", claiming he had good character and insisting he was an important community member may give one the impression that they have a very different view on those kinds of matters than we do.

It seems like they were viewing the assault against girls with the same blasé attitude on may have towards something far less serious like petty theft or vandalism.

What a tale you weave, Rob. Have you considered writing for Fox News? You'd be good at it. (Well, an editor would need cut back on your wordiness, but you have an instinct for hitting the "right target".)

This is a thread about the President's personal religious bigotry and xenophobia. (And likely some others in his orbit, but I can't read the NY Times article.) Your response is to excuse that presidential bigotry by finding some "fault" in the culture/religion of the people being attacked.

What ever you've imagined about how the hijab is used to damp male sexual aggression it has no bearing in the President's bigotry.

As for that article, it has points about cultural protection of violators and mentions similar efforts in other communities/faiths. Unfortunately that article uses a RW news source for its specific example (which has nothig to do with graduating kindergartners) and literally copies full sentences and paragraphs from the "alpha news" article. I want to think the "survivor rights" website is working in good faith, but at minimum they are falling prey to bad sourcing. (I have a hard time believing that the Star-Tribune or local TV didn't have reports on the case involving a 12 year old.

Maine Progressive · Jul 13, 2026

As with so many other instances, it seems, again, we will only discover reality when a teacher in a hijab inspires one of our children to become an astronaut, when a muslim neighbor bails one of us out of a crippling debt, when a hijab wearing surgeon saves the life of a family member. Why does it take all that to burst the bubble of fear and loathing?

ThatRobGuy · Jul 13, 2026

GoldenBoy89 said:
Our president was friends with a known, convicted pedophile who ran an international ring of sexual abuse of young girls. Maybe there's a few other cultures we could be singling out.

You can find individuals who engage in such things, but aggregated stats come in handy when determining how pervasive certain things are in a culture.

For example (and I'll pick on the US here), when someone shines a spotlight on a specific incident of gun violence in a Nordic country (as some sort of flimsy counterbalance to our problem), the fact that they have some isolated examples doesn't negate the fact that we're uniquely worse in terms of gun violence. And they would have a rightful concern/objection if some neighborhoods in their countries started getting taken over by American expats who express anti-regulatory attitudes towards guns and getting caught illegally carrying guns over there at a disproportionate rate.

So as that pertains to this:
Does the US culture (or any other westernized culture) by in large (conservative, liberal, religious, irreligious, or otherwise) have a 48% child marriage rate, 90% female genital mutilation rate, and 70%+ domestic abuse rate like what exists in Somalia? (and that most certainly bleeds over into some things still happening among that community here, that stays hidden from authorities due to the insular nature of the communities)

For instance, while the practice of FGM is banned here, they get around it by implementing "vacation cutting"

‘Vacation Cutting’: The Little Known Global Health Crisis Affecting Girls In The U.S.

thinkprogress.org

For some girls living in the United States, summer vacation will not involve campsites and s’mores. They may instead be subjected to what’s known as “vacation cutting” — sent abroad to undergo a painful female genital mutilation (FGM) procedure.

Currently, about 513,000 U.S.-based women and girls are at risk for FGM because they were either born or have a parent born in a country that condones the practice. Although a 2014 Population Reference Bureau (PRB) report found there hasn’t been a recent increase in the practice in the United States, some U.S.-based parents — particularly those living in immigrant communities — are still sending their daughters to countries in Africa, the Middle East, and Asia to undergo FGM.

Hans Blaster · Jul 13, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
While nobody should be attacking the five year olds themselves (obviously -- and if people were doing that, shame on them... the kids are victims of their household environments and an oppressive religion)

The "people" in question are that POTUS guy:

Truth Social post by Trump about St. Paul kindergartners sparks safety concerns, criticism

Community leaders say President Donald Trump’s Truth Social post with a video of a St. Paul kindergarten graduation ceremony comes amid what they describe as a broader increase in anti-Muslim and anti-Somali rhetoric online and nationally.

www.mprnews.org

ThatRobGuy · Jul 13, 2026

Maine Progressive said:
As with so many other instances, it seems, again, we will only discover reality when a teacher in a hijab inspires one of our children to become an astronaut, when a muslim neighbor bails one of us out of a crippling debt, when a hijab wearing surgeon saves the life of a family member.

Why does it take all that to burst the bubble of fear and loathing?

Cultural change would burst that bubble.

With your examples of people doing good things, that doesn't negate real cultural issues as a whole.

I'm sure you can find some Israeli surgeons and teachers, etc... who have done positive things on an individual level within job-defined scopes. That doesn't act as a criticism deflection shield for some very real systemic issues going on over there, does it?

I'm sure there's a least a few good doctors and engineers in North Korea too. If tens of thousands of North Koreans started moving in, keeping their distaste for "all things west", and keeping their community insular, I'd be concerned about that too.

Hans Blaster said:
This is a thread about the President's personal religious bigotry and xenophobia.

Given that it's behind a paywall, and given NY Times ideological bent, I'm curious as to why it's being branded as such.

I did find another more local article about it that says:

Trump shared the post on his Truth Social account on Monday. It includes a 14-second video of children singing at their kindergarten graduation in St. Paul and a screenshot from the X account “End Wokeness.” In the screenshot, the account writes about the video, “Public school in St. Paul, Minnesota. Every girl is in a hijab…in kindergarten.”

The video appears to originate from a Somali TV of Minnesota clip of a kindergarten graduation at the St. Paul K-8 charter school Gateway STEM Academy. Girls wearing hijabs and graduation caps and gowns can be seen singing with their classmates. The school could not immediately be reached for comment.

Trump did not add any more comment to the post

So what's the takeaway here, that's it's bigoted to be concerned about a concerning practice or draw attention to it?

That's starting to drift into the same kind of territory as "because you criticized what the Israeli government did and the behavior of the Hasidic settlers, that makes you an antisemite"

Hans Blaster · Jul 13, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
So what's the takeaway here, that's it's bigoted to be concerned about a concerning practice or draw attention to it?

No he's just a bigot.

ThatRobGuy said:
That's starting to drift into the same kind of territory as "because you criticized what the Israeli government did and the behavior of the Hasidic settlers, that makes you an antisemite"

No, we're not. Those "settlers" violent land stealers who exhibit the very worst parts of their holy book.

Tropical Wilds · Jul 13, 2026

The thing is you can see how this fear mongering has made some really good people fearful of the general public. I have a hijab-wearing woman who walks by my house twice a day and I generally see her on both walks. It took me a solid 3 months of saying "good morning" or "nice to see you" or "have fun today!" before the woman even acknowledged me, much less get a reply. Now she'll see me outside, ask about my garden, ask about my crocheting project I'm doing on the bench in front of my house, comment on the weather, and now we even trade my sourdough for some ridiculously amazing rice pancake flatbread thing. She is a nice lady, but her first instinct upon moving into a community is self-seclusion and she is too intimidated by strangers to talk to them... That means we, as Americans, have fallen short of the ideals our country was founded on, sometimes at the expense of another American citizen (because this woman is, in fact, a naturalized citizen and has a child who was born on US soil).

Maine Progressive · Jul 13, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
Cultural change would burst that bubble.

With your examples of people doing good things, that doesn't negate real cultural issues as a whole.

I'm sure you can find some Israeli surgeons and teachers, etc... who have done positive things on an individual level within job-defined scopes. That doesn't act as a criticism deflection shield for some very real systemic issues going on over there, does it?

I'm sure there's a least a few good doctors and engineers in North Korea too. If tens of thousands of North Koreans started moving in, keeping their distaste for "all things west", and keeping their community insular, I'd be concerned about that too.

Given that it's behind a paywall, and given NY Times ideological bent, I'm curious as to why it's being branded as such.

I did find another more local article about it that says:

Trump shared the post on his Truth Social account on Monday. It includes a 14-second video of children singing at their kindergarten graduation in St. Paul and a screenshot from the X account “End Wokeness.” In the screenshot, the account writes about the video, “Public school in St. Paul, Minnesota. Every girl is in a hijab…in kindergarten.”

The video appears to originate from a Somali TV of Minnesota clip of a kindergarten graduation at the St. Paul K-8 charter school Gateway STEM Academy. Girls wearing hijabs and graduation caps and gowns can be seen singing with their classmates. The school could not immediately be reached for comment.

Trump did not add any more comment to the post

So what's the takeaway here, that's it's bigoted to be concerned about a concerning practice or draw attention to it?

That's starting to drift into the same kind of territory as "because you criticized what the Israeli government did and the behavior of the Hasidic settlers, that makes you an antisemite"

The takeaway here is that it's falling into the anecdotal fallacy to point out kindergartners, some wearing hijabs, all singing happily and call it 'concerning'...clearly meaning 'It's bad'.

Hans Blaster · Jul 13, 2026

Maine Progressive said:
The takeaway here is that it's bigoted to point out kindergartners, some wearing hijabs, all singing happily and call it 'concerning'...clearly meaning 'It's bad'.

Exactly. Those little kids aren't engaged in any threatening activity. Not even remotely.

Yarddog · Jul 13, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
The original article is behind a paywall, but does it mention him attacking the 5 year olds?, or attacking that particular subset of Muslim culture that feels the need to put 5 year old in "male gaze prevention" garments?

It's none of Trump's business but it's his job to protect those Muslim girl's right to practice their religion.

ThatRobGuy · Jul 13, 2026

Hans Blaster said:
No, we're not. Those "settlers" violent land stealers who exhibit the very worst parts of their holy book.

I would saying mutilating the genitals of females because "only men should have sexual pleasure" and marrying off little girls to creepy old men or keeping them covered from head to toe in the name of "that way we won't be sexually tempted" would be exhibiting a pretty bad part of the Muslim holy books, would it not?

ThatRobGuy · Jul 13, 2026

Yarddog said:
It's none of Trump's business but it's his job to protect those Muslim girl's right to practice their religion.

This may be an unpopular thing to say...

But little kids don't practice "their religion", they get indoctrinated and forced to practice the religion of their parents and complying to avoid punishment.

Unless you're suggesting that a person can have serious deeply held philosophical positions on the big questions of theology, tradition, and afterlife when they're still so young that you need to make choo-choo noises with the spoon to get them to eat vegetables.

ThatRobGuy · Jul 13, 2026

Maine Progressive said:
The takeaway here is that it's falling into the anecdotal fallacy to point out kindergartners, some wearing hijabs, all singing happily and call it 'concerning'...clearly meaning 'It's bad'.

And if those little girls said "it's hot, I don't want to have to wear this thing outside in the summer heat", what do you suppose the outcome would be in terms of the response from the men and religious leaders in their community?

Given the purpose of the hijab that I mentioned earlier, it is concerning that the men in their community would be making them wear that, because that's an admission of something that's pretty messed up.

Are there that many men in that particular subset of the Muslim community that are sexually attracted to 5-10 year olds that they have to make them wear "lust-deflectors" so they won't have dirty thoughts about them?

Odd...Turkish and Egyptian Muslims don't seem to feel the need to do that to little kids and adolescent females

I don't like the fact that they make the full grown women do it either...but at least that's operating within the age of adulthood/consent.

As noted before, the Somali culture is a uniquely terrible one... Between the domestic abuse rates, the 90%+ female genital mutilation rate, and the "marrying kids" rate, they're in a class of their own.

If it make someone a "bigot" to say "Yeah, I don't see any value in importing thousands of people who think it's normal to beat women and lust after elementary school children", then so be it.

Yarddog · Jul 13, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
This may be an unpopular thing to say...

Why?

ThatRobGuy said:
But little kids don't practice "their religion", they get indoctrinated and forced to practice the religion of their parents and complying to avoid punishment.

So all Christian children are being indoctrinated by their patents.

ThatRobGuy said:
Unless you're suggesting that a person can have serious deeply held positions on the big questions of theology, tradition, and afterlife when they're still so young that you need to make choo-choo noises with the spoon to get them to eat vegetables.

Jesus stunned the Jewish scholars at a very young age.

ThatRobGuy · Jul 13, 2026

Yarddog said:
So all Christian children are being indoctrinated by their parents.

Correct.

And when there's a teaching considered problematic...that parents use there kids as an accessory for, it gets called out, right?

When that one story happened, where parents sent their 11yo kid to school during "Pride Week" wearing a "There are only 2 genders" shirt. Was that a deeply held view that the kid had and came to of his own accord? Or was he merely a vehicle for the parents' viewpoint and likely parroting back what he heard at home?

Was it "anti-Christian bigotry" or "the school violated the kids religious freedom" when they sent him home with a note saying he wasn't allowed to wear that shirt?

Religious Persecution by the President of the United States

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