Does the Seventh-day Adventist Church Teach the Gospel?

reddogs said:

Seventh Day Adventists observe the Sabbath on Saturday, which contrasts with the Catholic tradition of observing a substitute day of worship, Sunday. Seventh Day Adventists do not recognize the authority of the Pope or the Catholic Church. We see where they make clear how they see the 'daughter' churchs.

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The Sabbath, according to the commandment in Exodus, is a day of rest. The commandment says nothing about worship. The commandment does not forbid worship of God on any day, not even Sunday.

Sophia7 said:

The Sabbath, according to the commandment in Exodus, is a day of rest. The commandment says nothing about worship. The commandment does not forbid worship of God on any day, not even Sunday.

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The commandment says to work six days Exo20:9 and rest from our works on the seventh day so we can keep the Sabbath day holy Exo20:8,10. Why would we want to give God our best, our worship on a day God said to do work and labors and not on the only day He sanctified and blessed for holy use. God said we are to lay aside our own wants and desires as the Sabbath day He deemed to honor Him, on the holy day of the LORD Isa 58:13 that is worship, why we see the Sabbath continuing for worship not on the first day, but the Sabbath day Isa 66:23. When God tells us His will, both spoken and written by God Himself Exo31:18, we should want to do it because of love and a changed heart from doing our will to wanting to do His, even if it seems the whole world is doing something else, this was the same pattern in Scripture.

This was an issue in Scripture as well, people elevating something God made holy, for something He didn't.

Eze 22:26 Her priests have violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.

God blesses us when we listen to Him, place nothing else or any other voice before His.

Isa 56:1 Thus saith the LORD
Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man who does this,
and the son of man who holds it fast,
who keeps the Sabbath, not profaning it,
and keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

SabbathBlessings said:

The commandment says to work six days Exo20:9 and rest on the seventh day so we can keep the Sabbath day holy Exo20:8,10. Why would we want to give God our best, our worship on a day God said to do work and labors and not on the only day He sanctified and blessed for holy use.

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You are adding your own interpretations to what the text says. It simply doesn't command worship or forbid worship on any day. And the Israelites rested on other days as well as worshipped God on other days. They had many more holy days and convocations and days of rest, also commanded by God, than just the weekly Sabbath.

Sophia7 said:

You are adding your own interpretations to what the text says. It simply doesn't command worship or forbid worship on any day. And the Israelites rested on other days as well as worshipped God on other days. They had many more holy days and convocations and days of rest, also commanded by God, than just the weekly Sabbath.

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No, its what it says.

God says to work 6 days, and to keep the seventh day holy, because God blessed and sanctified the Sabbath day.

There are no feast days in the Ten Commandments that God Himself wrote and spoke, that are under His mercy seat Exo25:21 inside God's ark Exo40:20 and in heaven Rev11:19

God spoke the Ten Commandments and added no more Deut5:22 and God personally wrote these words down as part of His Testimony Exo31:18

20 And God spoke all these words, saying:


8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Again, why would anyone want to give God their best on a day God deemed for works and labors, and not the day God commanded to keep holy on the only day He blessed and sanctified for holy use. I guess that is for God to sort out at His soon return.

To add: works do not have to be going to work, it can be gardening, dishes, laundry, going to the gym, any work that takes us away from keeping the Sabbath day holy, fostering our relationship with God, honoring God Isa 58:13 people will sadly try to use any excuse not to follow God's written and spoken Testimony and miss the entire point God is making. In the end, God will be the One to sort it all out.

SabbathBlessings said:

The commandment says to work six days

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Are you condemning Adventists who work a five day week?

Are you condemning people who go on vacation?

Are you condemning those who are disabled for a time and cannot work?

The commandment indicated six were for work, and one was for rest, where no work was to be done.

SabbathBlessings said:

Why would we want to give God our best, our worship on a day God said to do work and labors and not on the only day He sanctified and blessed for holy use.

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That is like asking why would I want to give my wife my best when it is not our anniversary.

I had a relative who both rested and attended services on Sabbath and Sunday. There is nothing in the texts you have cited that would condemn that.

Romans 14:4-6
4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. (NKJV)


Colossians 2:16-17 (NKJV) 16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Sadly people use Paul's words against Christ when Paul said everything has to be according to Christ, its one of the reasons I believe we have this salvation warning of misapplying his writings 2 Peter 3:16 because people do not use Paul's own way of reconciling, everything according to Christ.

Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

When people use Col2:16 out of context, it creating conflict to what Christ said.

Christ said the Sabbath was made for mankind Mark2:27-28

People use Paul out of context to make him say the weekly Sabbath was made against man and contrary to us, the exact opposite of what Christ said, it's not according to Christ. Christ did not handwrite His Ten Commandments, He wrote them with His own finger Exo31:18 the handwritten ordinances that are contrary and against is something different Paul is quoting 2 Chron33:8 Deut31:24-26

According to Christ He made the Sabbath for man, to be a blessing and a delight to honor God Isa 56:2 Isa 58:13-14 - this is a sad argument one is trying to make that God's blessing, and honoring and spending sanctified time with our LORD on the day God said, the holy day of the LORD, that Jesus is LORD of, would ever be contrary and against us. We need to think this through, what spirit places doubt on what God said, God's own written and spoken Testimony Exo31:18 and teaches us to do the opposite of what God said.

Its why I would be careful using Paul writings as a way to override what Christ said, when Paul himself didn't do this and warned about being cheated by doing this.

The passages from Paul are Scripture which is God breathed.

You are ignoring old testament context for the Colossians listing.

Paul's listing draws on a similar short form listing of the appointed time that includes the sabbath, which is elaborated on in detail, as are the other elements.

Eze 45:17 It shall be the prince's duty to furnish the burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the new moons, and the Sabbaths, all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel.

The elements are the spelled out and the weekly sabbath is included:

Eze 46:1 “Thus says the Lord GOD: The gate of the inner court that faces east shall be shut on the six working days, but on the Sabbath day it shall be opened, and on the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
Eze 46:2 The prince shall enter by the vestibule of the gate from outside, and shall take his stand by the post of the gate. The priests shall offer his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate. Then he shall go out, but the gate shall not be shut until evening.
Eze 46:3 The people of the land shall bow down at the entrance of that gate before the LORD on the Sabbaths and on the new moons.
Eze 46:4 The burnt offering that the prince offers to the LORD on the Sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish and a ram without blemish.
Eze 46:5 And the grain offering with the ram shall be an ephah, and the grain offering with the lambs shall be as much as he is able, together with a hin of oil to each ephah.

Note the close parallel to Col. 2
burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the new moons, and the Sabbaths, all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel:

Eze 45:17 It shall be the prince's duty to furnish the burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the new moons, and the Sabbaths, all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel:

Colossians 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths

And he says they are shadows which point to Christ:

Colossians 2:16-17 (NKJV) 16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Sophia7 said:

You are adding your own interpretations to what the text says. It simply doesn't command worship or forbid worship on any day.

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That’s correct.

If anything, it commands daily worship, albeit without specifying the form that worship needs to take. To start with, we have God commanding us rejoice always, to pray without ceasing and to give thanks for all things, in 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 which I have mentioned on many occasions.

Adventists have repeatedly insisted that prayer is worship when criticizing the practice of intercessory prayer to the saints, despite its clear scriptural basis (Revelation 4:10, 5:8, 6:9-11, James 5:16, and of course 2 Maccabees 12:43-46*; while I vehemently disagree in the case of intercessory prayer since it is requesting a member of the church triumphant to pray on behalf of someone in the church militant**, in this case God the Holy Spirit in breathing that verse is clearly talking about daily worship.

Yet once again we have the all too familiar pattern of the New Testament being ignored based on an erroneous reading of a verse from the Old Testament.

Since SDA members despite my advice to the contrary value what AI says more than what I said, I asked Google’s search-integrated AI if it could identify verses that support daily worship, and it provided the following answer complete with compelling interpretation:

“The Bible emphasizes a daily lifestyle of praise rather than being limited to a single day. Scriptures like Psalm 113:3 and Romans 12:1 show that offering your life and gratitude continuously—every day of the week—is the truest form of spiritual worship. [1, 2, 3]
These key verses support worshipping and serving God every day:

• Psalm 113:3: "From the rising of the sun to the place where it sets, the name of the Lord is to be praised." This establishes a constant, 24/7 rhythm of worship. [1]
• Romans 12:1: "...to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship." Your entire life becomes an ongoing act of devotion. [1, 2, 3]
• Psalm 145:2: "Every day I will praise you and extol your name forever and ever."
• Hebrews 13:15: "Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise—the fruit of lips that openly profess his name." [1, 2]”

(end of Google search-integrated AI quotation)

SabbathBlessings said:

Sadly people use Paul's words against Christ when Paul said everything has to be according to Christ

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Of course Paul is inline with Christ. That is why he notes all those things are shadows pointing to Christ

Colossians 2:16-17 (NKJV) 16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

SabbathBlessings said:

Sadly people use Paul's words against Christ when Paul said everything has to be according to Christ, its one of the reasons I believe we have this salvation warning of misapplying his writings 2 Peter 3:16 because people do not use Paul's own way of reconciling, everything according to Christ.

Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

When people use Col2:16 out of context, it creating conflict to what Christ said.

Christ said the Sabbath was made FOR mankind Mark2:27-28

People use Paul out of context to make him say the weekly Sabbath was made against man and contrary to us, the exact opposite of what Christ said, it not according to Christ. Christ did not handwrite His Ten Commandments, He wrote them with His own finger Exo31:18 the handwritten ordinances that are contrary and against is something different Paul is quoting 2 Chron33:8 Deut31:24-26

According to Christ He made the Sabbath for man, to be a blessing and a delight to honor God Isa 56:2 Isa 58:13-14 - this is a sad argument one is trying to make that God's blessing, sanctification and honoring our LORD would ever be against us.

Its why I would be careful using Paul writings as a way to override what Christ said, when Paul himself didn't do this.

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Once again we see the familiar pattern of 2 Peter 3:16 being used out of context as a means of sidelining the Holy Apostle Paul whenever his writings are inconvenient. Indeed given that I’ve never been able to get one of our Sabbatarian critics to provide a verse by verse exegesis of Galatians 3:15-5:15 reconciling their practices to what the Holy Apostle has to say in that case, and ignoring the fact that God also said “Judge not lest ye not be judged” and here God through St. Paul is merely emphasizing that point with regards to how the Sabbath is kept, which is consistent with the rebuke He gave to those Pharisees who judged Him breaking the Sabbath because He healed on that day, and with His disciples He gleaned wheat in a field. For which reason the prohibition against shopping for food that some Adventists would have us adhere to is entirely unjustifiable. Particularly since for many people shopping is a relaxing, restful activity, and the Sabbath was made for man, and not vice verse - we have no business judging how people chose to rest or observe the Sabbath, or indeed judging them about anything. That is what St. Paul is saying.

But there is another point @SabbathBlessings - you keep insisting that worship on days other than the Sabbath is forbidden on the basis of the Old Testament. But you ignore the fact that the God specifically commanded Moses to establish daily worship of God in Numbers 28:3–4: “ Say to them: This is the food offering you are to present to the Lord: two one-year-old lambs without defect, as a regular burnt offering each day. Offer one lamb in the morning and the other at twilight.”

Now I realize Numbers is one of the less popular books of the Bible, and so I would assume you have not read it recently, since as you can see, we have God instructing the Holy Prophet Moses to establish daily worship, which God would not do if it contradicted the Sabbath commandment.

Given the number of times you’ve insisted that God does not contradict Himself, this verse - in addition to the other verses I have provided - will hopefully be enough to persuade you that worship on days other than the Sabbath is not sinful.

The shadows are what the Bible says they are....

what Jesus came to end. Dan9:27 not God's commandments, written by God, spoken by God- God's own Testimony Exo31:18 in God's ark in heaven Rev11:19 that God's saints through love Exo20:6 keep until the very end Rev14:12 Rev22:14

Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once [a]purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, [b]O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been [c]sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The weekly Sabbath came before sin, before the fall, before one animal sacrifice and was never a shadow of Christ, but points to Him as our Creator Exo20:11 the only God we are to worship Rev14:7 and continues Isa 66:23 thus saith the LORD.

If one wishes to force Paul to teach against Christ, when Paul said everything had to be according to Him and teach that spending sanctified time honoring our LORD, God's blessing, Gods sanctification, the day that our Savior Jesus Christ is LORD of, the Sabbath day, is against man, when He said the Sabbath was made for man, that will have to be between those who teach this and God. Its certainly not what Paul believed or taught, Paul faithfully remembered the Sabbath day and kept every Sabbath holy decades and decades after the Cross Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 16:13 Acts 17:2 Acts 18:4 just as Jesus said His faithful would Isa 56:6-7 Mat24:20. Paul was a servant of God Rom1:1 and servant is not greater than their master John13:16 and a servant serves the LORD the way He asks Isa 56:6, otherwise its not really serving, it saying we know better, something Paul warned about Rom6:16KJV

SabbathBlessings said:

The shadows are what the Bible says they are....

Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once [a]purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, [b]O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been [c]sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The weekly Sabbath came before sin, before the fall and was never a shadow of God, but points to Him as our Creator Exo20:11 the only God we are to worship Rev14:7

If you wish to force Paul to teach against Christ, when Paul said everything had to be according to Him and teach that spending sanctified time honoring our LORD, God's blessing, the day that our Savior Jesus Christ is LORD of, is against man, that will have to be between those and God. Its certainly not what Paul believed or taught,

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We’re just quoting what St. Paul wrote, together with what Christ said - the fact is Christ spoke with HIs mouth “Judge not lest ye not be judged” - but apparently you seem to think what he wrote with His finger to the Holy Prophet Moses is more authoritative than what God said in His incarnation or through the Holy Apostle Paul (which is as inspired as St. Peter).

If you would simply read Galatians 3:15-5:15 together with what Christ said in the Gospels about the fulfillment of the law, and the Sabbath, and the new commandment, that we love each other as He has loved us, you would understand where Christians are coming from, and see that the Holy Apostle Peter was actually warning of the misuse of St. Paul in the manner of the two primary first century heresies - the Ebionites and their ilk who insisted Christians had to convert to Judaism and follow the Law, in part or in whole (since some of what St. Paul wrote if quoted out of context could be used to support that idea) and the Docetic sects such as the followers of Simon Magus and the Nicolaitans who insisted that the God of the New Testament was different from the God of the Old Testament and that the material world was evil, and some of St. Paul’s verses quoted out of context could be used to support that.

That is why we’re very careful to quote Scripture in the context of other Scripture and why we pay attention to what the early church taught. The same people who preserved the New Testament and handed it down to us (we did not get the Bible from the Albigensians, clearly, nor did we get the Nicene Creed from them). The idea that the early church immediately fell into such a fundamental error while managing to produce the Creed and to identify the New Testament canon, and therefore the writings of St. Justin Martyr, St. Ignatius of Antioch, St. Athanasius, St. Cyril of Alexandria, Eusebius of Caesarea and others are of no value is a false tradition of men.

Of course Paul said all the things in the list are shadows.

Including sabbaths. And the weekly sabbath is included in numbers 28 and Ezekiel 45 where he draws from in his listing.

And by the way, to reiterate, I am not saying the SDA church does not teach the Gospel; I would assume it does since most Adventists are nice to me and don’t judge me in violation of the Ten Commandments because I worship daily.

I do believe the Adventists should continue to reform and move away from certain unscriptural doctrines such as the Investigative Judgement and Annihilationism , and embrace the unambiguous statements of Christ in Mark 14:22-24 and the equivalent verses in Matthew and Luke concerning the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist*, but these doctrines are not the primary Gospel message but rather are secondary points of eschatology.

* On this point @tall73 @ViaCrucis @MarkRohfrietsch @prodromos and @Jipsah - as fellow believers in the Real Presence, perhaps you might agree it is ironic that 2 Peter 3:16 is used against traditional Christians in the case of a reading of St. Paul that agrees with what Christ our True God taught, namely, judge not lest ye not be judged, and his rejection of attempts by the Pharisees to dictate the nature of His Sabbath observance, but St. Paul’s epistle to the Corinthians, the Institution Narrative in 1 Corinthians 11 is read in a manner that misinterprets what is meant by the phrase “in remembrance”, a 16th century translation of anamnesis, which is a complex Greek word that has the sense of recapitulation, and in a manner that requires Christ to contradict what he said in the same chapter immediately before (why would he say “this is my body” if it was not in some sense His Body?) and in the institution narratives in the synoptic Gospels which lack the phrase “this do ye in remembrance of me,” which if it was so essential to the correct interpretation of what Christ said, one would expect would be contained in the Gospels which are the primary references for what Christ said and did between His Nativity and His Ascension (Acts records the promise of the descent and indwelling of God the Holy Spirit, our comforter and paraclete, also made in John, and records His descent on the Apostles, and the Epistles provide an interpretation of the Gospels, and the Apocalypse is an eschatological text which also contained warnings to first century churches which can be applied to various failure modes of contemporary churches, and descriptions of the Heavenly liturgy, and the future liturgy of the World to Come.

To claim God investigates before Judgement is not Biblical, well that's not an argument with SDA's...

Gen. 3:8,9,11,13,24---“the voice of the LORD God” investigates Adam & Eve; “where”, “Who”, “hast”, “what”

Gen. 4:9-12---God investigates Cain about Abel; “where”Gen. 5:22-24;

Heb. 11:5---God investigates Enoch; “had this testimony, that he pleased God”

Gen. 6:3,5,12---God investigates the world; “saw…every imagination”, “looked upon”

Gen. 11:5-6---God comes down at the Tower of babel; “to see”

Gen. 18:20-21---God comes down to Sodom & Gomorrah; “see … know”

Exo. 16:4,28; Num. 15:32-36; 1 Cor. 10:1-12---God tests Israel about His commandments, the 7th day the Sabbath; “How long”, “what should be done”

Lev. 16:1-34, 23:26-32; Exo. 28:15,29-30---God investigates Israel, Day of Atonement; “breast plate of judgment”

1 Kin. 3:16-28---King Solomon (Type of Christ, Prince of peace) investigates from his throne over two women and a living & dead child; “judgment”

Ezr. 2:59,61-63; Neh. 7:61,63-65---In Ezra 2, after coming out of Babylon, the priests had to be investigated to make sure they were on the genealogical records

Job 1:8, 2:3---God & man (Job) are investigated; “Hast thou considered”

Eze. 8:1-18, 9:1-11---God investigates two groups inside the city

Dan. 7:9-10,13,22(b), 8:13-14,26, 12:1,12---The Investigative Judgment; “every one that shall be found written in the book”

Zec. 3:1-3---God investigates the high priest Joshua; “clothed”

Mal. 3:3,5---God searches the metals for impurities; refiner & purifier

Luk. 13:7---Jesus investigates for fruit; “I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none”

Mat. 18:21-35---The King investigates; “a certain king, which would take account of his servants”

Mat. 22:11---The King investigates; “the king came in to see the guests, he saw”

Mar. 11:13---Jesus investigates, “seeing … afar off”

Rom. 2:13-16---“In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”

2 Cor. 5:10---“we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ”

Heb. 9:27---“it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment”

1 Pet. 4:5---Investigating the dead; “give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead”

Jud. 1:15---In order, “To execute judgment upon all”, an investigation takes place first

Rev. 3:10, 17:12---“the hour (time) of temptation (testing)”; investigating the living

Rev. 3:14---“Laodicea” (Judgment of the people)

Rev. 11:1-2---Investigating the church; “measure the Temple (God’s people)”, “worship”

Rev. 14:6-13---“the hour of his judgment is come”