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Secret Service hassles lady behind CatsOnACouch, prevent her from attending public, government events featuring JD Vance

Servus

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I know a fair number of things but these aren’t among them.

I’m going to have to assume that there is a process or test which she failed, because otherwise even a vocal critic of the Vice-President would have been allowed into the venues.
Most likely when it comes to secret service access control, it's solely up to their discretion.
It’s cynical to stand up for your own individual rights?
That doesn't follow. I was the one expressing cynicism regarding someone else's possible motives.

Also, since it's a privilege and not a right to be granted access by the secret service, her rights were not violated. Despite how many lawsuits are filed.
 
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Stopped_lurking

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No, I was quite explicit in my reasoning. You seem to have a pattern of claiming no explanation has been given, after an explanation has indeed been given.

I asked you explicitly here:

I see no reason to label her pathologically obsessed. Are you a psychiatrist? I'm not, but I can show her clips to one if you want an expert opinion?

I see that you have declined to try to give evidence, but would you be prepared to argue your opinion (as in what do you believe is indicative of a pathological obsession, and why do you believe that you see it in her clips)?

This was your response:

See post #6

This is the mentioned post #6.

That's my opinion based on watching her video clips. "Seems like in my opinion" isn't something that's back up with evidence as it's strictly a matter of perception.

It's like asking someone to provide evidence that a particular food they don't like tastes bad in their opinion.

So you didn't want to give any evidence. I then asked you if you wanted to argue your opinion, and you didn't. How am I supposed to understand that, in any other way than that you don't want to?

Have I missed your post when you argued your opinion (as in what do you believe is indicative of a pathological obsession, and why do you believe that you see it in her clips)? Give me the number and I'll go back and read it.

Thus turning conversations with you into an endless rabbit hole.

Post #41 is an exchange between you and someone else who is not me.

But you interjected yourself in that discussion with this post:

Someone saying a person appears pathologically obsessed to them, is not the same as claiming they are pathologically obsessed. It's simply a personal impression someone has of someone else.

And I have changed post #41 to better represent what you said.
 
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Pommer

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Most likely when it comes to secret service access control, it's solely up to their discretion.
Right, which they can document when plaintiff’s lawyers demand it.
That doesn't follow. I was the one expressing cynicism regarding someone else's possible motives.
She’s suing to be given fair treatment despite her having Poked fun at a High Political Figure.

Also, since it's a privilege and not a right to be granted access by the secret service, her rights were not violated. Despite how many lawsuits are filed.
It will make for a fun trial, which it’s never going to get to; we can but dream!
 
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Pommer

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Perhaps she's hoping for a nice fat settlement at the tax payers expense.

Also like I figured, it appears that she has a Gofundme. And it's racked up over $206,000 so far.

Where does the gofundme appear?, my cursory search turned up nothing.

The monetary-relief sought is costs and whatever the court may want to decide, if anything.

IMG_5867.png
 
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Servus

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Where does the gofundme appear?, my cursory search turned up nothing.

The monetary-relief sought is costs and whatever the court may want to decide, if anything.

View attachment 381362
All I did was put in the first and last name followed by Gofundme.
 
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Servus

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Right, which they can document when plaintiff’s lawyers demand it.

She’s suing to be given fair treatment despite her having Poked fun at a High Political Figure.


It will make for a fun trial, which it’s never going to get to; we can but dream!
Personally I'm not expecting it to get that far, but will be cha-ching cha-ching all the way.
 
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Servus

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I asked you explicitly here:



This was your response:



This is the mentioned post #6.



So you didn't want to give any evidence. I then asked you if you wanted to argue your opinion, and you didn't. How am I supposed to understand that, in any other way than that you don't want to?

Have I missed your post when you argued your opinion (as in what do you believe is indicative of a pathological obsession, and why do you believe that you see it in her clips)? Give me the number and I'll go back and read it.



But you interjected yourself in that discussion with this post:



And I have changed post #41 to better represent what you said.
If only you stuck to the topic itself half as much as you go on and on about other posters and how dissatisfied you are with their posts.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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What support are you demanding?
I demand nothing. I would appreciate it if you would participate in discussions in good faith and support your opinions with actual evidence.

It's difficult to have a discussion when people refuse to, y'know, discuss.
 
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Servus

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I demand nothing. I would appreciate it if you would participate in discussions in good faith and support your opinions with actual evidence.

It's difficult to have a discussion when people refuse to, y'know, discuss.
The only existing evidence for my impression of the couch cat person is in the video clips I watched. What else could you possibly be thinking of outside of that? How she presents herself on social media clips about the VP is the only relevant factor that I know of. So tell me what's being left out, so that you can prove your I'm arguing in bad faith accusations.
 
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Stopped_lurking

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If only you stuck to the topic itself half as much as you go on and on about other posters and how dissatisfied you are with their posts.

I haven't said anything about your posts. What are you talking about?

So do have anything to add regarding your reasoning in relation to your impression of her?

I'm interested in your thoughts.
 
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Servus

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I'm interested in your thoughts.
So you keep saying and saying over and over, despite the fact that I have no unshared or hidden thoughts on the matter. This is my last response to you in this or any other thread. Note that I will not see your reply to this post, or any other post I make, ever.
 
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Belk

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Nope. The former is nothing more than a personal impression. The latter is claiming something is a fact.

Like the difference between me saying your avatar looks like Jimmy Kimmel to me, and claiming that your avatar is a picture of Jimmy Kimmel.
No, that is the difference between saying you think my avatar is Jimmy Kimmel and stating it is Jimmy Kimmel. It is a distinction without as difference as far as what you are saying.
 
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Stopped_lurking

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So you keep saying and saying over and over, despite the fact that I have no unshared or hidden thoughts on the matter. This is my last response to you in this or any other thread. Note that I will not see your reply to this post, or any other post I make, ever.

Ok, that's your prerogative. If you change your mind later, I'm still interested.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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The only existing evidence for my impression of the couch cat person is in the video clips I watched. What else could you possibly be thinking of outside of that? How she presents herself on social media clips about the VP is the only relevant factor that I know of. So tell me what's being left out, so that you can prove your I'm arguing in bad faith accusations.
You seem to be confusing me with someone else. The only posts I've made in this thread have been to challenge your assertions about the government's authority to arbitrarily exclude a member of the public from public, government-funded events based solely on the person's free and protected speech.

The only defense of this opinion that you have thus far offered is to compare it to a bouncer excluding someone from a club. However, that analogy utterly fails as a bouncer is not a government agent (and therefore has no obligation to respect your First Amendment rights) and a club is a private space, and thus is free to refuse service to anyone. Rather than offer further support for your opinion when that was pointed out, you threw a little tantrum and ran away:
This is July's lib poster child. I'm not going to go any further with it. Y'all enjoy the usual outrage fest.

I don't care what you think of this person - you're entitled to your opinions. What I do care about is your handwaving of the government trampling all over a citizen's constitutional rights simply because you don't care for her.

If she starts heckling, by all means, throw her out. If she's not following the event rules (which were disseminated ahead of time), by all means, don't let her in. If she's articulated threats against the Vice President, please arrest her. But by all accounts, none of those things actually happened. She has threatened no one, she was following the event rules, and she wasn't heckling. She was barred, per the agents who kicked her out, solely because "we know who you are and where you stand."
 
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Servus

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You seem to be confusing me with someone else. The only posts I've made in this thread have been to challenge your assertions about the government's authority to arbitrarily exclude a member of the public from public, government-funded events based solely on the person's free and protected speech.

The only defense of this opinion that you have thus far offered is to compare it to a bouncer excluding someone from a club. However, that analogy utterly fails as a bouncer is not a government agent (and therefore has no obligation to respect your First Amendment rights) and a club is a private space, and thus is free to refuse service to anyone. Rather than offer further support for your opinion when that was pointed out, you threw a little tantrum and ran away:


I don't care what you think of this person - you're entitled to your opinions. What I do care about is your handwaving of the government trampling all over a citizen's constitutional rights simply because you don't care for her.

If she starts heckling, by all means, throw her out. If she's not following the event rules (which were disseminated ahead of time), by all means, don't let her in. If she's articulated threats against the Vice President, please arrest her. But by all accounts, none of those things actually happened. She has threatened no one, she was following the event rules, and she wasn't heckling. She was barred, per the agents who kicked her out, solely because "we know who you are and where you stand."
As I've said in previous posts... Government bouncers like Secret Service, TSA, FPS, PSO etc. Their job is to bar access and remove people. If they think someone might possibly be problem in any way, they're going to deny access.

The idea of the Secret Service having a wait and see what happens policy is ridiculous. Granting or denying access is up to their discretion. If they think there's chance someone will do something during the event that's going to require them to take action later, they're just not going to let that person in. That's their job. That's why they're standing there implementing access control.

Access to an event featuring a VP is a privilege, not a right.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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As I've said in previous posts... Government bouncers like Secret Service, TSA, FPS, PSO etc. Their job is to bar access and remove people. If they think someone might possibly be problem in any way, they're going to deny access.
Perhaps, but they cannot violate people's rights in doing so.
The idea of the Secret Service having a wait and see what happens policy is ridiculous. Granting or denying access is up to their discretion. If they think there's chance someone will do something during the event that's going to require them to take action later, they're just not going to let that person in. That's their job. That's why they're standing there implementing access control.
Is this just your opinion, or do you have concrete evidence to back it up? Argument from incredulity is a logical fallacy.

The Secret Service can, of course, take preemptive action. But there still needs to be a credible threat, and potential heckling or exposure to differing opinions are not credible threats. The full extent of the Secret Service's powers and authorities is laid out in law here: https://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-18-crimes-and-criminal-procedure/18-usc-sect-3056/

This is a Public Affairs guidance document for the Secret Service, as an example of their usual policies and procedures: https://www.governmentattic.org/45docs/USSSpubAffairsGuid_2017-2020.pdf

Of particular note:
1783916386633.png


1783916454285.png

It seems pretty clear that USSS SOP is (or at least used to be as recently as 2020) to only step in if there is a threat against their protectee(s).

Access to an event featuring a VP is a privilege, not a right.
"Privilege," in this context, is a very vague term. Yes, it is a privilege - but the privilege is conditioned on compliance with the rules of the event, not the potential that the VP's fee-fees might get hurt. Either way though, the right being violated here is not a right to access an event, but rather McGonigle's First Amendment right to free speech. She registered for a public, government-funded event, complied with all rules of said event, and was denied access based solely on her speech - in other words, she is being punished by a government entity for speech, which is something expressly forbidden by the First Amendment.

The closest example of a similar event that I can find reference to is "Plaid Shirt Guy", who was kicked out of a Trump rally in 2018 for making incredulous faces as Trump spoke. The differences being that:
1. This was, as far as I can tell, not a government-funded event.
2. He was kicked out for his actual actions during the event.
3. The rally's organizers (not the government or government officials) had him removed.
 
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Servus

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Perhaps, but they cannot violate people's rights in doing so.

Is this just your opinion, or do you have concrete evidence to back it up? Argument from incredulity is a logical fallacy.

The Secret Service can, of course, take preemptive action. But there still needs to be a credible threat, and potential heckling or exposure to differing opinions are not credible threats. The full extent of the Secret Service's powers and authorities is laid out in law here: https://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-18-crimes-and-criminal-procedure/18-usc-sect-3056/

This is a Public Affairs guidance document for the Secret Service, as an example of their usual policies and procedures: https://www.governmentattic.org/45docs/USSSpubAffairsGuid_2017-2020.pdf

Of particular note:
View attachment 381377

View attachment 381378
It seems pretty clear that USSS SOP is (or at least used to be as recently as 2020) to only step in if there is a threat against their protectee(s).


"Privilege," in this context, is a very vague term. Yes, it is a privilege - but the privilege is conditioned on compliance with the rules of the event, not the potential that the VP's fee-fees might get hurt. Either way though, the right being violated here is not a right to access an event, but rather McGonigle's First Amendment right to free speech. She registered for a public, government-funded event, complied with all rules of said event, and was denied access based solely on her speech - in other words, she is being punished by a government entity for speech, which is something expressly forbidden by the First Amendment.

The closest example of a similar event that I can find reference to is "Plaid Shirt Guy", who was kicked out of a Trump rally in 2018 for making incredulous faces as Trump spoke. The differences being that:
1. This was, as far as I can tell, not a government-funded event.
2. He was kicked out for his actual actions during the event.
3. The rally's organizers (not the government or government officials) had him removed.
My argument is representative of what I believe the defence will present. Your argument is representative of what you believe the plaintiff will present. We will have to wait and see which one prevails in court.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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My argument is representative of what I believe the defence will present. Your argument is representative of what you believe the plaintiff will present. We will have to wait and see which one prevails in court.
The difference being that I have cited sources and laws to back up my position. You either cannot or will not.
 
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