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Adventist view on the thousand years of the Millennium

truthuprootsevil

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If we believe that the 1,000 years will be on earth, can we quote a verse that state the saved in 1Thessalonians 4:17 whom meets the Lord in the air or in the clouds return to earth to reign with Christ for 1,000 years. (Rev 20:6)

1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain
will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
Revelation 20:6 KJV - Blessed and holy is he that hath part - Bible Gateway Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 20:6 - King James Version

Nowhere in Revelation 26 does it say ON EARTH

First Thessalonians 4:16-17 has to do what with what the church calls the rapture - whether one believe in pre-tribulation / mid tribulation / or post tribulation rapture
 
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Capbook2

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Revelation 20:6 KJV - Blessed and holy is he that hath part - Bible Gateway Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 20:6 - King James Version

Nowhere in Revelation 26 does it say ON EARTH

First Thessalonians 4:16-17 has to do what with what the church calls the rapture - whether one believe in pre-tribulation / mid tribulation / or post tribulation rapture
As Revelation 20:6 no mention of returning to earth, then that would mean that the 1,000 years will not be on earth
 
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truthuprootsevil

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As Revelation 20:6 no mention of returning to earth, then that would mean that the 1,000 years will not be on earth
That is what I have been saying all along: the Bible does not say *exactly* where the millennium will take place. Whether on Earth, in heaven, or an entirely different place we as people speculate our own interpretations.

Jesus said he is going to prepare a place that where he is we may be also - an ENTIRELY new heaven and earth which is written of in Revelation 21 - that could be where the millennium will take place / on the new earth He brings us back to earth at the end of the 1000 where Revelation 20: 5-15 will occur.

There are some Christians who believe and maybe most the new heaven and Earth is this one, just redone when the Bible says this heaven and earth will go out with a loud noise and melt, melt with fervent heat.

Wherever the millennium takes place the bigger question is will any of us be a part of it?
 
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The Kingdom comes down after the thousand years and Revelation 20 shows what happens when the wicked try to attack it as we see in verses seven through nine:

This appears to suggest that you believe His kingdom has an end, even if other SDAs do not.

On this point, I would refer you to 2 Peter 1:11 which is the primary reason why the Second Ecumenical Synod, a Greek Orthodox council that was later accepted by Rome and the other independent patriarchates of the early church as ecumenical, but which was convened as a local synod and thus only had bishops from the Greek church, rejected Chiliasm and included the clause “whose Kingdom shall have no end.”

Now since most Pentecostals do not believe the reign of Christ or His Kingdom end at the end of the 1,000 years they are at least compatible with the wording of the Nicene Creed, and I can’t fault them for taking a view we also see in a minority of early church fathers primarily in the West such as St. Justin Martyr (I do object to some disregarding other important points made by St. Justin and St. Irenaeus).

However the consensus patrum is that 1,000 years is being used to explain “infinite” just as we are to infinitely forgive those who sin against us and not impose a limit at 490 years.
 
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Capbook2

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That is what I have been saying all along: the Bible does not say *exactly* where the millennium will take place. Whether on Earth, in heaven, or an entirely different place we as people speculate our own interpretations.
I believe verses below give us a hint where the 1,000 years will be, to understand where's the Father's house whom Jesus I believe also is there, as He said, "I will come again and receive us to Himself. The "receiving" might refer to 1Thessalonians 4:16,17, and reign with Him for a 1,000 years. (Rev 20:6)

John 14:2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.
Jesus said he is going to prepare a place that where he is we may be also - an ENTIRELY new heaven and earth which is written of in Revelation 21 - that could be where the millennium will take place / on the new earth He brings us back to earth at the end of the 1000 where Revelation 20: 5-15 will occur.
As your statement I colored blue above, the bringing us to earth after the 1,000 would mean that the 1,000 years will not be on earth.
There are some Christians who believe and maybe most the new heaven and Earth is this one, just redone when the Bible says this heaven and earth will go out with a loud noise and melt, melt with fervent heat.
As the holy city new Jerusalem (Rev 3;12, 21:2) will come down from heaven with God's people after the 1,000 years, the released Satan will deceived the resurrected nations (wicked) which are in the four corners of the earth (Rev 20:5,8) surround the saints and the holy city but fire came down and devour them, the devil, beast and false prophets by the lake of fire, the second death. (Rev 20:14)

As you state that earth will be "redone" after the destruction by fire, then the new heavens and new earth which all righteousness dwells, the saints where will be spared from the lake of fire in Revelation 20:9,10. (2Pet 3:13)

Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,

2Pe 3:13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

Wherever the millennium takes place the bigger question is will any of us be a part of it?
Yes, it's be by God's grace that we'll be a part of it.
 
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truthuprootsevil

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I believe verses below give us a hint where the 1,000 years will be, to understand where's the Father's house whom Jesus I believe also is there, as He said, "I will come again and receive us to Himself. The "receiving" might refer to 1Thessalonians 4:16,17, and reign with Him for a 1,000 years. (Rev 20:6)
King James says in my Father's house is many mansions (mansions are huge) / so I doubt if he's talking about a house within a house or a house with many living quarters: _ and when you read scripture the word heavens with an s, it is used quite often in scriptures even Paul said he was taken to the third heaven. How many heavens are there? Revelation speaks of a new heaven and a new Earth (that's what we call a universe) Jesus is preparing a new place for his.

That would be a different heaven than any heaven in existence.
John 14:2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

As your statement I colored blue above, the bringing us to earth after the 1,000 would mean that the 1,000 years will not be on earth.

As the holy city new Jerusalem (Rev 3;12, 21:2) will come down from heaven with God's people after the 1,000 years, the released Satan will deceived the resurrected nations (wicked) which are in the four corners of the earth (Rev 20:5,8) surround the saints and the holy city but fire came down and devour them, the devil, beast and false prophets by the lake of fire, the second death. (Rev 20:14)
Satan isn't released in the new heaven and on the new earth

It's in Revelation 20 before the new heaven and new earth comes down that Satan is released on this earth it seems.

Revelation 21 is when the new heaven and new earth comes down after all of it is over with.
As you state that earth will be "redone" after the destruction by fire, then the new heavens and new earth which all righteousness dwells, the saints where will be spared from the lake of fire in Revelation 20:9,10. (2Pet 3:13)
No I didn't state that the Earth would be redone - I said some believe that it will be. I believe this heaven and this Earth will be totally destroyed as written in 2nd Peter 3:10.
Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,

2Pe 3:13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.


Yes, it's be by God's grace that we'll be a part of it.
Amen
 
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Capbook2

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King James says in my Father's house is many mansions (mansions are huge) / so I doubt if he's talking about a house within a house or a house with many living quarters:
Yes, KJV record the word "mansion" which bears Strong#G3438, in Greek "μονή monē" defined by various Bible Lexicons as - a place where one may remain or dwell, a stay in any place, an abode, dwelling, a place to stay, etc.

By the definition, means the Father's house a dwelling place whom Jesus will make for the saved.

(KJV) John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

KJV+) John 14:2 InG1722 myG3450 Father'sG3962 houseG3614 areG1526 manyG4183
mansions:G3438 if it were notG1490 so, I would have toldG2036 G302 you.G5213 I goG4198 to prepareG2090 a placeG5117 for you.G5213

G3438 Mounce Lexicon)
μονή monē
2x:
a stay in any place; an abode, dwelling, mansion, Jhn_14:2; Jhn_14:23.

G3438 (Thayer Lexicon)
μονή monē
Thayer Definition:
1)
a staying, abiding, dwelling, abode
2) to make an (one’s) abode

G3438 (EDNT)
μονή monē

a place to stay
(from Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament © 1990 by William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. All rights reserved.)

G3438 (Louw and Nida Greek-English Lexicon)
μονή monē

place where one may remain or dwell - 'place, dwelling place.
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)

_ and when you read scripture the word heavens with an s, it is used quite often in scriptures even Paul said he was taken to the third heaven. How many heavens are there? Revelation speaks of a new heaven and a new Earth (that's what we call a universe) Jesus is preparing a new place for his.
I believe the third heaven is the Father, Jesus and God's angels dwelling place, where inaccessible to the fallen angels.
The old heavens to be destroyed I believe is the place accessed by the enemies of God.
That would be a different heaven than any heaven in existence.
Yes, I believe that's the place mentioned in John 14:2.
Satan isn't released in the new heaven and on the new earth
Yes, as he will deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth, he will be on earth.
It's in Revelation 20 before the new heaven and new earth comes down that Satan is released on this earth it seems.
No, I believe it's the holy city new Jerusalem that will come down and not the new heaven and new earth.

Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
Revelation 21 is when the new heaven and new earth comes down after all of it is over with.
Again, I believe it's the city new Jerusalem that will come down.
No I didn't state that the Earth would be redone - I said some believe that it will be. I believe this heaven and this Earth will be totally destroyed as written in 2nd Peter 3:10.

Amen
Yes, as God said the first earth will be destroyed by fire, He will make all things new, includes the new earth.(Rev 21:1)

Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
 
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The Liturgist

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I believe this heaven and this Earth will be totally destroyed as written in 2nd Peter 3:10.

Interestingly that is not an unusual view.

Rather what is disputed is the idea of a 1,000 year reign, since St. Peter in the very same book declares Christ’s kingdom )singular) will be eternal (2 Peter 1:11) and references this again in 2 Peter 3:18. And elsewhere in the New Testament we see our Lord use large numbers to refer to infinite or unlimited quantities, for example that we should forgive our brother “seventy times seven” which I don’t think many people would argue means forgiveness should stop after the 490th offense (and if it did a lot of family members would have ceased forgiving each other, since many have clashes multiple times per day).
 
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truthuprootsevil

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Yes, KJV record the word "mansion" which bears Strong#G3438, in Greek "μονή monē" defined by various Bible Lexicons as - a place where one may remain or dwell, a stay in any place, an abode, dwelling, a place to stay, etc.

By the definition, means the Father's house a dwelling place whom Jesus will make for the saved.
"By the definition it means the Father's house is a dwelling place whom Jesus will make for the saved" - If that's the case then there is no need for a new heaven and a new Earth as written in Revelation 21..... I've looked up the definitions years ago but thanks anyway..... And my belief is Christ is speaking of universes / heavens not a building that can dwell in...... Look at the Earth it is a dwelling / home / house / place for humans and it is part of God's Kingdom / house.
(KJV) John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

KJV+) John 14:2 InG1722 myG3450 Father'sG3962 houseG3614 areG1526 manyG4183
mansions:G3438 if it were notG1490 so, I would have toldG2036 G302 you.G5213 I goG4198 to prepareG2090 a placeG5117 for you.G5213

G3438 Mounce Lexicon)
μονή monē
2x:
a stay in any place; an abode, dwelling, mansion, Jhn_14:2; Jhn_14:23.

G3438 (Thayer Lexicon)
μονή monē
Thayer Definition:
1)
a staying, abiding, dwelling, abode
2) to make an (one’s) abode

G3438 (EDNT)
μονή monē

a place to stay
(from Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament © 1990 by William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. All rights reserved.)

G3438 (Louw and Nida Greek-English Lexicon)
μονή monē

place where one may remain or dwell - 'place, dwelling place.
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)


I believe the third heaven is the Father, Jesus and God's angels dwelling place, where inaccessible to the fallen angels.
The old heavens to be destroyed I believe is the place accessed by the enemies of God.

Yes, I believe that's the place mentioned in John 14:2.

Yes, as he will deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth, he will be on earth.

No, I believe it's the holy city new Jerusalem that will come down and not the new heaven and new earth.
I tried to say maybe I didn't say it correctly, so I'll rephrase it; the New Jerusalem / the new heaven / the new Earth does not come until after Satan has been released and sentencing carried out into the lake of fire. Maybe I didn't understand you correctly when you seem to say we will be on the new heaven and Earth when Satan is released.
Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

Again, I believe it's the city new Jerusalem that will come down.

Yes, as God said the first earth will be destroyed by fire, He will make all things new, includes the new earth.(Rev 21:1)

Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Thanks for the conversation God bless
 
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Capbook2

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"By the definition it means the Father's house is a dwelling place whom Jesus will make for the saved" - If that's the case then there is no need for a new heaven and a new Earth as written in Revelation 21..... I've looked up the definitions years ago but thanks anyway..... And my belief is Christ is speaking of universes / heavens not a building that can dwell in...... Look at the Earth it is a dwelling / home / house / place for humans and it is part of God's Kingdom / house.
Here's another definition of "mansion" from BDAG's "A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature," one as means - of heavenly dwellings.

By the definition, it proves that the Father's house is in heaven where Jesus will come again and received to Himself the saved and reign with Him for 1,000 years in heaven. (Rev 20:6)

mansions G3438 μονή ----- [Analytics] mansions (1x) G3438 (2x) [BDAG] μονή, ῆς, ἡ (μένω; Eur., Hdt. et al.; ins, pap; 1 Macc 7:38; TestAbr s. below) 1. state of remaining in an area, staying, tarrying (Eur. et al.; OGI 527, 5; Philo, Mos. 1, 316) μονὴν ποιεῖσθαι live, stay (Thu. 1, 131, 1; BGU 742; Jos., Ant. 8, 350; 13, 41) J 14:23. 2. a place in which one stays, dwelling(-place), room, abode (Chariton 1, 12, 1 μονὴν ποιεῖν; Paus. 10, 31, 7; OGI 527, 5) of heavenly dwellings μοναὶ τῶν ἁγίων μου (TestAbr A 20 p. 104, 2 [Stone p. 56]) J 14:2 (OSchaefer, ZNW 32, ’33, 210–17; understood in a transcendent sense: RGundry, ZNW 58, ’67, 68–72). τῆς ἀμείνονος τυγχάνειν μονῆς attain a better abode ApcPt fgm. 2 p. 12, 22.—M-M.


I tried to say maybe I didn't say it correctly, so I'll rephrase it; the New Jerusalem / the new heaven / the new Earth does not come until after Satan has been released and sentencing carried out into the lake of fire. Maybe I didn't understand you correctly when you seem to say we will be on the new heaven and Earth when Satan is released.
I believe what made new will be the burnt Genesis 1:1 creation of God. The new Jerusalem is only a city, a holy city described in Revelation 21:10-27, that will come down from heaven where over-comers whom Jesus will receive to Himself dwells.

Rev 3:12 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.
Thanks for the conversation God bless
Thanks likewise.

Best regards,
Capbook
 
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Capbook2

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Interestingly that is not an unusual view.

Rather what is disputed is the idea of a 1,000 year reign, since St. Peter in the very same book declares Christ’s kingdom )singular) will be eternal (2 Peter 1:11) and references this again in 2 Peter 3:18. And elsewhere in the New Testament we see our Lord use large numbers to refer to infinite or unlimited quantities, for example that we should forgive our brother “seventy times seven” which I don’t think many people would argue means forgiveness should stop after the 490th offense (and if it did a lot of family members would have ceased forgiving each other, since many have clashes multiple times per day).
Yes, Christ's kingdom will be eternal, and the 1,000 years which had duration as part of it but will be spent in heaven before God will make all things new including the new heavens and new earth the final dwellings of the saved where righteousness dwells. (2Pet 3:13)

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
 
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tall73

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Gods Word shows what happens to the saints who are resurrect in the first resurrection and then for the wicked in the one after the thousand years. Christ Himself tells us what will happen, there will be two resurrections, one for the saints and one when the wicked are brought up for damnation.

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

We also see the same by Paul in Acts..
Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Christ and Paul spoke of two resurrections, the first being the resurrection of life for the just, and the second being the resurrection of damnation for the unjust. We also find it in Daniel,

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Adventist hold that Revelation 20 shows these two resurrections, one at the beginning of the 1000 years, and the other at the end.

I agree there are resurrections to different sentences:

Daniel 12:1-2​
1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,​
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;​
And there shall be a time of trouble,​
Such as never was since there was a nation,​
Even to that time.​
And at that time your people shall be delivered,​
Every one who is found written in the book.​
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,​
Some to everlasting life,​
Some to shame and everlasting contempt. (NKJV)​

John 5:24-29​
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. (NKJV)​
Acts 24:15​
15 I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust. (NKJV)​
However, some of the other texts seem to indicate separating the sheep and the goats, etc.

1Corinthians 4:5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.​

2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.​
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. (NKJV)
Matthew 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’ 41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’44 “Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”​
Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’​
Matthew 13:30​
30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ” (NKJV)​
Matthew 13:39-42​
39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. (NKJV)​
Matthew 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.​
20 “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’​
24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’​
26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.​
29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’​

Regarding Revelation it does indicate 1k years between the first and second resurrection. Which in some ways seems out of step with the other texts, though the other perspective is that the other texts are compressing the events.

However, the other problem there is that the description of the two resurrections in Revelation are not exactly as Adventists claim.

Revelation 20:4-5​
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (NKJV)​

Adventists relate this group to all the righteous at Jesus' coming. But in Revelation this resurrection is more limited to those who have been martyrs and those who have not received the mark of the beast.

Not all Christians were alive when the mark of the beast was in force, depending on how it is interpreted (but even in Adventist interpretation this is the case), and those who lived prior to the incarnation were also not in the category of those who did not receive the mark of the beast.

This is a more select group.

Moreover, the second resurrection is said in Revelation to involve the rest of the dead. Adventists, looking at the texts about the second coming in the rest of Scripture, have seen this as referring to those who did not have saving faith in Christ (or in Adventist thinking did not have their sins blotted out in the IJ).

However, that is also not clear from the text of Revelation:

Revelation 20:11-15​
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (NKJV)​

The dead are judged--it doesn't say, as Adventists say, the wicked are judged. And anyone NOT found in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Which certainly sounds like some were found and were not so cast.

This more corresponds to the other texts which speak of the nations being judged at Christ's throne, sheep and goats being separated, etc.

I have not figured out how it all fits together so far. But we have to look at the details of Revelation for what they say.

And we should base what we do know on clear statements in the NT, and then try to see how the comparably difficult passages in the symbolic prophecy of Revelation tie in with that.

Revelation is Scripture, and is valuable. However, it is not as straight-forward. All the texts have to fit together.
 
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The Liturgist

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Yes, Christ's kingdom will be eternal, and the 1,000 years which had duration as part of it but will be spent in heaven before God will make all things new including the new heavens and new earth the final dwellings of the saved where righteousness dwells. (2Pet 3:13)

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

Since the first resurrection is plainly our baptism in Christ, the thousand years are transpiring in the present (and the tribulation refers to the ongoing and unending persecution of Christians during this age).
 
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Capbook2

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Since the first resurrection is plainly our baptism in Christ, the thousand years are transpiring in the present (and the tribulation refers to the ongoing and unending persecution of Christians during this age).
Through the context of Revelation 20:6, the word "resurrection" which bears Strong#G386, in Greek "ἀνάστασις anastasis' defined by Bible Lexicons as - rising from the dead, to come back to life after having once died, to come back to life, to live again, etc. And nothing mentioned about baptism.

By the definition, it proves that the first resurrection of those who are in Christ (1Thes 4:16,17) will reign with Him for 1,000 years, and the lake of fire, the second death had no power. (Rev 20:6)

(NAS95) Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

(NAS95+) Rev 20:6 R1BlessedG3107 and holyG40 is the one who hasG2192 a partG3313 in the
firstG4413 resurrectionG386; overG1909 theseG3778 the R2secondG1208 deathG2288 hasG2192 noG3756 powerG1849, but they will be R3priestsG2409 of GodG2316 and of ChristG5547 and will R4reignG936 with Him for a thousandG5507 yearsG2094.

G386 (Thayer Greek-English Lexicon)
ἀνάστασις anastasis
1) a raising up, rising (e.g. from a seat)
2)
a rising from the dead
2a) that of Christ
2b) that of all men at the end of this present age
2c)
the resurrection of certain ones history who were restored to life (Heb_11:35)

G386 (Louw and Nida Greek-English Lexicon)
ἀνάστασις anastasis ----- [Analytics] resurrection (41x) G0386 (42x) [Louw & Nida] 23.93 ζάωb; ἀναζάωa; ἀνίσταμαιd (and 2nd aorist active); ἀνάστασιςa, εως f; ἐξανάστασις, εως f; ἔγερσις, εως f:
to come back to life after having once died — ‘to come back to life, to live again, to be resurrected, resurrection.’ ζάωb: Χριστὸς ἀπέθανεν καὶ ἔζησεν
 
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prodromos

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Through the context of Revelation 20:6, the word "resurrection" which bears Strong#G386, in Greek "ἀνάστασις anastasis' defined by Bible Lexicons as - rising from the dead, to come back to life after having once died, to come back to life, to live again, etc. And nothing mentioned about baptism.
Romans 6.
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.​
 
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Romans 6.
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.​
The word "to be baptized" which bears Strong#G907, in Greek "βαπτίζω baptizō" defined by various Bible Lexicons as - to immerse, to submerge, to dip, by dipping into water, to dip in or under, to occur in the sense of "to immerse, etc., and nothing about rising from the dead or resurrection.

By verse context in Matthew 3:13, Jesus was baptized by John through immersion and etc.

Mat 3:13 Then Jesus *arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him.

Mat 3:13 R1ThenG5119 JesusG2424 *arrivedG3854 R2from GalileeG1056 at the JordanG2446 coming to JohnG2491,
to be baptizedG907 by him.

G907 (Thayer Greek-English Lexicon)
βαπτίζω baptizō
1) to dip repeatedly,
to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one’s self, bathe
3) to overwhelm

G907 (Mounce Lexicon)
βαπτίζω baptizō
77x: pr.
to dip, immerse; to cleanse or purify by washing; to administer the rite of baptism, to baptize; met. with various reference to the ideas associated with Christian baptism as an act of dedication, e.g. marked designation, devotion, trial, etc.; mid. to procure baptism for one’s self, to undergo baptism, Act_22:16.

G907 (Louw and Nida Greek-English Lexicon)
βαπτίζω baptizō
to wash (in some contexts, possibly
by dipping into water), with a view to making objects ritually acceptable - 'to wash, to purify, washing, purification.
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)

G907
βαπτίζω baptizō
"
to dip in or under" (transitive):
The intens.
to occurs in the sense of "to immerse" (transitive)
(from Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. Copyright © 1972-1989 By Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co. All rights reserved.)
 
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The Liturgist

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The word "to be baptized" which bears Strong#G907, in Greek "βαπτίζω baptizō" defined by various Bible Lexicons as - to immerse, to submerge, to dip, by dipping into water, to dip in or under, to occur in the sense of "to immerse, etc., and nothing about rising from the dead or resurrection.

@prodromos literally quoted the Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans, part of chapter 6, without interpretation, and rather than providing an alternate explanation you simply disagreed with it wholesale and quoted Stong’s to prove your point. But it was the Holy Apostle who wrote Romans chapter 6:

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
 
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prodromos

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@prodromos literally quoted the Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans, part of chapter 6, without interpretation, and rather than providing an alternate explanation you simply disagreed with it wholesale and quoted Stong’s to prove your point.
To be honest, I couldn't tell if he was agreeing or disagreeing with me. His post didn't really add anything to the discussion.
My point (and St Paul's), which he seemed to miss, is that through our water baptism, we participate in Christ's death and resurrection.
 
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To be honest, I couldn't tell if he was agreeing or disagreeing with me. His post didn't really add anything to the discussion.
My point (and St Paul's), which he seemed to miss, is that through our water baptism, we participate in Christ's death and resurrection.
Since the flow of the discussion is my disagreement with this statement "the first resurrection is plainly our baptism in Christ," by Liturgist, I though you did follow.
Yes, I agree with what you quote from the book of Romans, "those who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death."
But do you agree that "the first resurrection is plainly our baptism in Christ," through the context of Revelation 20:6?
 
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@prodromos literally quoted the Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans, part of chapter 6, without interpretation, and rather than providing an alternate explanation you simply disagreed with it wholesale and quoted Stong’s to prove your point. But it was the Holy Apostle who wrote Romans chapter 6:

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
I agree with prodromos but I disagree with your Post#33, that state "the first resurrection is plainly our baptism in Christ," I did quote then the difference between what "resurrection" means in contrast to "baptism" through the context of Revelation 20:6."


Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
 
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