Jn 19, 11 : Please, Do you know why Jesus uses : "Therefore", in his reply ?

Minister Monardo · Jul 9, 2026

David1701 said:
Remorse is not repentance!

The sorrow of this world leads to death (and Judas committed self-murder); but, godly sorrow leads to repentance.

"godly sorrow leads to repentance" is Paul's explanation for a believer's response to correction. In New Testament theology, repentance is required 70X7 for offending a fellow believer, hardly an accurate assessment of Judas' realization that he had betrayed to Lord unto a death sentence. No doubt suicide is not the preferred response to that remorse, but I would expect someone who defines suicide as "self-murder", and declares worldly sorrow as leading to death to have some scriptural support. One can accurately state that worldly sorry often leads unbelievers to a place where they are more receptive to the Gospel, and see the opportunity to share to someone who is in "worldly sorrow" which is a fact of life.
Matthew 27:
3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself,
and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

He then makes confession to the chief priests, who sat in Moses seat.
4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood.
And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.

One would do well to consider the motive behind Judas' actions, as it clearly was not intended
to see Christ put to death. And his remorse far exceeds the typical "godly sorrow" for offending
someone in the Body of Christ.

David1701 · Jul 9, 2026

Minister Monardo said:
"godly sorrow leads to repentance" is Paul's explanation for a believer's response to correction. In New Testament theology, repentance is required 70X7 for offending a fellow believer, hardly an accurate assessment of Judas' realization that he had betrayed to Lord unto a death sentence. No doubt suicide is not the preferred response to that remorse, but I would expect someone who defines suicide as "self-murder", and declares worldly sorrow as leading to death to have some scriptural support. One can accurately state that worldly sorry often leads unbelievers to a place where they are more receptive to the Gospel, and see the opportunity to share to someone who is in "worldly sorrow" which is a fact of life.
Matthew 27:
3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself,
and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

He then makes confession to the chief priests, who sat in Moses seat.
4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood.
And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.

One would do well to consider the motive behind Judas' actions, as it clearly was not intended
to see Christ put to death. And his remorse far exceeds the typical "godly sorrow" for offending
someone in the Body of Christ.

2 Cor. 7:10 (W.E.B.) For godly sorrow works repentance to salvation, which brings no regret. But the sorrow of the world works death.

To commit suicide is to kill oneself deliberately: that is self-murder.

Minister Monardo · Jul 9, 2026

David1701 said:
godly sorrow works repentance to salvation

The letter Is to saved believers, therefore repentance to salvation
applies to "working out your salvation in fear and trembling".
The Lord will no doubt judge Judas iaw His Righteous Judgment.
So, how does suicide, if done by a believer, affect their salation?

David1701 · Jul 9, 2026

Minister Monardo said:
The letter Is to saved believers, therefore repentance to salvation
applies to "working out your salvation in fear and trembling".
The Lord will no doubt judge Judas iaw His Righteous Judgment.
So, how does suicide, if done by a believer, affect their salation?

Judas was not a believer. He was an evil man, right from the start. He was a thief, a liar, the Lord's betrayer, he loved to curse and hated to bless (that last is from an O.T. prophecy about him).

Suicide does not affect a believer's salvation; but, it is sin, so it will affect his reward.

Minister Monardo · Jul 9, 2026

David1701 said:
Judas was not a believer. He was an evil man, right from the start. He was a thief, a liar, the Lord's betrayer, he loved to curse and hated to bless (that last is from an O.T. prophecy about him).

Suicide does not affect a believer's salvation; but, it is sin, so it will affect his reward.

My response was not referencing Judas, or questioning whether or not he was a believer.
The reference was to the Corinthians to whom Paul wrote "godly sorrow leading to repentance unto salvation".
So a believer can commit "self-murder", or are you sticking with the term suicide now?
How about a busybody? an evildoer? A thief like Judas?
1 Peter 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer,
or as a busybody in other men's matters.

David1701 · Jul 9, 2026

Minister Monardo said:
My response was not referencing Judas, or questioning whether or not he was a believer.
The reference was to the Corinthians to whom Paul wrote "godly sorrow leading to repentance unto salvation".
So a believer can commit "self-murder", or are you sticking with the term suicide now?
How about a busybody? an evildoer? A thief like Judas?
1 Peter 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer,
or as a busybody in other men's matters.

I've already answered. Why are you pretending that I have not?

Suicide = self-murder They are the same thing - taking one's own life deliberately.

We are not supposed to sin, of course; but, if a genuine believer does sin, it does not affect his salvation; however, it will affect his reward; and could have serious consequences in this life as well.

Minister Monardo · Jul 9, 2026

David1701 said:
David1701 said:

I've already answered. Why are you pretending that I have not?

Suicide = self-murder They are the same thing - taking one's own life deliberately.

Click to expand...

No, they are not. You literally invented the term. I asked you for scripture to support your contention, instead you just keep repeating yourself, and suggest that I am pretending. That is ludicrous, I don't come on this forum to pretend, but to speak truth, so I will explain to you why you are incorrect.
The definition of murder according to the word of God is "the shedding of innocent blood".
You cannot condemn Judas "He was an evil man, right from the start. He was a thief, a liar, the Lord's betrayer, he loved to curse and hated to bless (that last is from an O.T. prophecy about him)". And then say that his suicide was murder. It is not, because he was not innocent. To be sure, suicide is an act of cowardice, and the scriptures do have something to say about "the cowardly", but I will leave that for you to look into later.

David1701 said:
We are not supposed to sin, of course; but, if a genuine believer does sin, it does not affect his salvation; however, it will affect his reward; and could have serious consequences in this life as well.

There is much to be said about this, and much scripture to consider, but you are being far too glib.
1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask,
and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.
There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
Thoughts on this?
As to this idea that serious sin does not affect salvation, all who obtain the free gift of eternal life by Christ Jesus, does not define the quality of that life. Some will spend eternity "outside the walls of the City".
Revelation 22:
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,
that they may have the right to the tree of life,
and may enter through the gates into the city.
15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral
and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
It is beyond the pale to corrupt honest and true fellowship and turn aside
to heinous sin, and think, "well, at least I cannot lose my salvation".
Is this the company that anyone would care to keep?
This is serious enough that Peter wrote:
2 Peter 2:
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

An eternity without reward is a serious biz, and cannot be so easily dismissed.

Minister Monardo · Jul 9, 2026

Minister Monardo said:
The definition of murder according to the word of God is "the shedding of innocent blood".

Exodus 22:2 If the thief is caught while breaking in and is struck so that he dies,
there will be no guilt for bloodshed on his account.

David1701 · Jul 10, 2026

Minister Monardo said:
Exodus 22:2 If the thief is caught while breaking in and is struck so that he dies,
there will be no guilt for bloodshed on his account.

We were not talking about defending oneself or one's property!

Murder is not only deliberately killing the innocent; for one thing, we are all sinners, so not one of us is innocent; for another, taking the law into one's own hands and killing someone who is known to be a criminal, is still murder (N.B. I'm not talking about self-defence or defending the lives or others).

peter2 · Jul 10, 2026

Sorry to interrupt your conversation.
I just wanted to quote the AI’s summary of my interpretation of the parable of the dishonest steward. It actually explains my interpretation much better than I do.
Here it is :

A Political Reading of the Parable of the Dishonest Manager (Luke 16:1–17)

This interpretation proposes that the "rich man" symbolizes Caesar and the "manager" symbolizes Pontius Pilate. Rather than representing ordinary individuals, both are figures of imperial power and belong to what Jesus calls "the sons of this world." Their defining characteristic is not righteousness but political skill: they preserve authority through strategy, appearances, and mutual interests.

Within this framework, the manager's reduction of debts is not an act of mercy but a calculated political move. He seeks to secure loyalty, improve his public image, and prepare for his future once his office ends. His desire to be "received into their houses" (v.4) can be understood not merely as seeking hospitality, but as gaining acceptance within influential households, social networks, and public opinion.

The master's praise in verse 8 is therefore not a moral endorsement. It is an acknowledgment between two men operating within the same corrupt system. The rich man recognizes the manager's political effectiveness because both understand that power depends as much on perception as on force. Their exchange becomes a staged performance in which each reinforces the other's legitimacy.

Jesus' statement that "the sons of this world are more shrewd than the sons of light" contrasts two different mindsets. The sons of this world are experts at shaping narratives, creating appearances of virtue, and protecting their own interests. The sons of light are sincere believers who are often inclined to take public virtue at face value. Their weakness is not moral failure but a lack of discernment, making them vulnerable to carefully crafted political and religious performances.

Verses 10–12 explain why this matters. Faithfulness in small responsibilities reveals a person's true character. Pilate is only an administrator exercising delegated authority on behalf of Caesar. His corruption in managing another's authority demonstrates that he cannot be trusted with genuine authority from God. One who is unjust in borrowed stewardship cannot inherit the true Kingdom.

Verse 13 identifies the underlying issue: "You cannot serve God and Mammon." Caesar and Pilate ultimately serve wealth, power, and political self-preservation. Their actions flow naturally from the master they have chosen to serve.

Verses 14–15 extend the criticism to the Pharisees, who also seek public honor while loving wealth. Jesus concludes that what human society praises may, in fact, be detestable before God. Public reputation and moral appearances cannot conceal the true condition of the heart.

Verses 16–17 then shift the focus from exposing the world's system to announcing God's alternative. With John the Baptist and Jesus, the Kingdom of God enters history as a direct challenge to the kingdoms of this world. As God's Kingdom advances, political and religious authorities intensify their efforts to preserve their own legitimacy. Yet despite every attempt to manipulate public perception, God's standard remains unchanged. "It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of the Law to fail." Human rulers may rewrite narratives, but they cannot rewrite divine justice.

Under this reading, the parable is not primarily about financial stewardship. It is a warning against confusing political theater with righteousness. Jesus teaches the sons of light to recognize that worldly powers often maintain themselves through carefully constructed appearances of virtue. The true Kingdom cannot be discerned by public image or official approval, but by unwavering faithfulness to God's justice.

Minister Monardo · Jul 10, 2026

David1701 said:
We were not talking about defending oneself or one's property!

Murder is not only deliberately killing the innocent; for one thing, we are all sinners, so not one of us is innocent; for another, taking the law into one's own hands and killing someone who is known to be a criminal, is still murder (N.B. I'm not talking about self-defence or defending the lives or others).

No, we are defining murder, and whether are not suicide can be labeled self-murder. Staying on point...
There is much to be said about this, and much scripture to consider, but you are being far too glib.
1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask,
and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.
There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
Thoughts on this?
As to this idea that serious sin does not affect salvation, all who obtain the free gift of eternal life by Christ Jesus, does not define the quality of that life. Some will spend eternity "outside the walls of the City".
Revelation 22:
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,
that they may have the right to the tree of life,
and may enter through the gates into the city.
15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral
and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
It is beyond the pale to corrupt honest and true fellowship and turn aside
to heinous sin, and think, "well, at least I cannot lose my salvation".
Is this the company that anyone would care to keep?
This is serious enough that Peter wrote:
2 Peter 2:
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

An eternity without reward is a serious biz, and cannot be so easily dismissed.

David1701 · Jul 10, 2026

Minister Monardo said:
No, we are defining murder, and whether are not suicide can be labeled self-murder. Staying on point...
There is much to be said about this, and much scripture to consider, but you are being far too glib.
1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask,
and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.
There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
Thoughts on this?
As to this idea that serious sin does not affect salvation, all who obtain the free gift of eternal life by Christ Jesus, does not define the quality of that life. Some will spend eternity "outside the walls of the City".
Revelation 22:
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,
that they may have the right to the tree of life,
and may enter through the gates into the city.
15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral
and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
It is beyond the pale to corrupt honest and true fellowship and turn aside
to heinous sin, and think, "well, at least I cannot lose my salvation".
Is this the company that anyone would care to keep?
This is serious enough that Peter wrote:
2 Peter 2:
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

An eternity without reward is a serious biz, and cannot be so easily dismissed.

Sin unto death is either the unforgivable sin, or sin that leads to physical death (e.g. a crime for which one would be executed).

Outside the city, having no right to the tree of life, are those who practise sin (i.e. the lost).

Re. 2 Pet. 2: 20,.21: there are many who outwardly reform their lives and profess to believe in Jesus; but, they have not been born again. These ones have, by knowing the way of righteousness, increased their accountability and guilt, but were never saved.

Matt. 7:22,23 (W.E.B.)
22 Many will tell me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?’
23 Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.’

com7fy8 · Jul 10, 2026

com7fy8 said:
If Jesus said it . . . therefore, there always can be more to discover

peter2 said:
Let's hope so, may be

Love "hopes all things" > in 1 Corinthians 13:7.

Jn 19, 11 : Please, Do you know why Jesus uses : "Therefore", in his reply ?

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