I know many people say things like don't follow your feelings. Also some people say all Christians have the holy spirit, whether you notice Him or not.But doesn't Romans 8:16 seem to say you need actually notice/feel the holy spirit to be saved?
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If God feels far away does that mean im no longer saved
- Thread starter Lynn02
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Hello @Lynn02, God seeming to be far away from us at times can mean several different things, but rarely, if ever (at least not in my experience) has it meant that someone has lost their salvation, because those of us who sense a distance between ourselves and God typically do so because we know what we're missing, yes, and we then (just like Israel's King David) LONG to have the closeness that we used to enjoy with God restored to us 
Now, impenitent sinning can be one of the reasons for the sense of distance that we feel, of course, because just like our first parents, sometimes we try to hide from God when that's what we've done, but even David, who was guilty of adultery with Bathsheba and the 1st degree murder of her husband, while he lost the closeness that he had previously felt with God, he ~never~ lost his salvation, as we can see in the passage below where he cries out,
The reason that we sense this distance from God (or that He has become silent) can be for several reasons, I think most often due to what we've either done or failed to do or both, but it can also be something that is caused by God (perhaps as the natural outcome of a sanctifying work that He is doing in us at that particular time).
We are commanded (through the pen of the Apostle Paul) to regularly examine and test ourselves (to make sure that we are truly in the faith) .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 13:5. One of the ways that we do that is by looking at ourselves and what we are like today (since we became a believer, that is) and comparing that with how we used to be (as an unbeliever/prior to coming to saving faith). When you do this, do you see a clear difference (between your life then, as an unbeliever, and your life now, as a Christian), or is the life/lifestyle that you are living now pretty much the same as it was back then?
You could also accomplish the same thing by comparing your life to two of the lists that are found in Galatians 5, and then by asking yourself which list best describes your life today, and which one best described your life prior to becoming a believer. The two lists are found here (see below, remembering that most of us still have traits in our lives that come from both of those lists, though we are hopefully looking more and more like one of the lists and less and less like the other, thanks to God's continual and mighty work in us, PTL).
).
So, the key to getting started with this is to start off small. IOW, start 1. by remembering to include the Lord (more & more often) in the moment by moment of your daily life, and then 2. begin to consciously look for things throughout your day, even the smallest and simplest of things to rejoice in and thank Him for, and then do so
Remember too that God is ALWAYS at work in you, making you more and more like His Son. Remember as well that He has promised to work ALL things (both the good AND the bad) together for your good (even though it may not "feel" like He is doing so in the moment) .. e.g. Romans 8:28.
God bless you!!
--David
p.s. - here is a wonderful command with a wonderful promise from God attached to it. The key to obeying our half of the verse, the command half, that is, is found in always focusing on Him, never on the things that we think that we want from Him.
Now, impenitent sinning can be one of the reasons for the sense of distance that we feel, of course, because just like our first parents, sometimes we try to hide from God when that's what we've done, but even David, who was guilty of adultery with Bathsheba and the 1st degree murder of her husband, while he lost the closeness that he had previously felt with God, he ~never~ lost his salvation, as we can see in the passage below where he cries out,
Psalm 51
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God;
And renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from Thy presence;
And take not Thy Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the ~joy~ of Thy salvation (NOT salvation itself);
And uphold me with a willing spirit.
The reason that we sense this distance from God (or that He has become silent) can be for several reasons, I think most often due to what we've either done or failed to do or both, but it can also be something that is caused by God (perhaps as the natural outcome of a sanctifying work that He is doing in us at that particular time).
We are commanded (through the pen of the Apostle Paul) to regularly examine and test ourselves (to make sure that we are truly in the faith) .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 13:5. One of the ways that we do that is by looking at ourselves and what we are like today (since we became a believer, that is) and comparing that with how we used to be (as an unbeliever/prior to coming to saving faith). When you do this, do you see a clear difference (between your life then, as an unbeliever, and your life now, as a Christian), or is the life/lifestyle that you are living now pretty much the same as it was back then?
You could also accomplish the same thing by comparing your life to two of the lists that are found in Galatians 5, and then by asking yourself which list best describes your life today, and which one best described your life prior to becoming a believer. The two lists are found here (see below, remembering that most of us still have traits in our lives that come from both of those lists, though we are hopefully looking more and more like one of the lists and less and less like the other, thanks to God's continual and mighty work in us, PTL
).1) Galatians 5:19-21
2) Galatians 5:22-23
Finally, along with remembering all that the Lord has done for you, here is something that you may want to try (as a practical way to begin to narrow the distance from God that you are feeling right now). Some have referred to this as "practicing the presence of God" in your life, and that does seem like a good way of putting it (is it not simply a wondrous thought that our Creator, the King of the universe, wants to know us personally and be part of each our lives (the biggest part, in fact ).So, the key to getting started with this is to start off small. IOW, start 1. by remembering to include the Lord (more & more often) in the moment by moment of your daily life, and then 2. begin to consciously look for things throughout your day, even the smallest and simplest of things to rejoice in and thank Him for, and then do so
1 Thessalonians 5
16 Rejoice always;
17 pray without ceasing;
18 in everything give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.
Remember too that God is ALWAYS at work in you, making you more and more like His Son. Remember as well that He has promised to work ALL things (both the good AND the bad) together for your good (even though it may not "feel" like He is doing so in the moment) .. e.g. Romans 8:28.
God bless you!!
--David
p.s. - here is a wonderful command with a wonderful promise from God attached to it. The key to obeying our half of the verse, the command half, that is, is found in always focusing on Him, never on the things that we think that we want from Him.
Psalm 37
4 Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart.
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Hello again @Lynn02, I'll post a few, short Christian quotes for you to consider too, as I believe that they may prove to be helpful with this. Enjoy
--David
p.s. - the following, short article, from our friends at GotQuestions.org, may be useful too.
"Instead of a river, God often gives us a brook, which may be running today and dried up tomorrow. Why? To teach us not to rest in our blessings, but in the Blesser Himself." ~Pastor/theologian Arthur W. Pink
"I've learned to kiss the waves that throw me up against the Rock of Ages" ~Pastor Charles Spurgeon
"Our vision is so limited that we can hardly imagine a love that does not show itself in protection from suffering.... The love of God did not protect His own Son.... He will not necessarily protect us - not from anything that it takes to make us like His Son. A lot of hammering and chiseling and purifying by fire will have to go into the process." ~Missionary Elisabeth Elliot
--David
p.s. - the following, short article, from our friends at GotQuestions.org, may be useful too.
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When you're no longer saved, you won't care about being saved. You need to seek out Christ and the Holy Spirit. When you close yourself off, you're not going to notice anything.
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I don't know how long you've been Christian but God often "withdraws" the sense of His presence as part of our spiritual development.
Some of God's most faithful servants feel most abandoned.
Mother Teresa was one of them.
St. Mother Teresa and Spiritual Desolation
When I read Come Be My Light: The Private Writings of the Saint of Calcutta I had to stop right around chapter 8. I knew St. Mother Teresa had experienced a time of spiritual desolation but reading her own words about it was hard. I didn’t want to go there. I didn’t want to consider what that...
ascensionpress.com
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There are fruits of His Holy Spirit that come to fruition in our lives: Galatians 5:22-23 says, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control". That said, doubt can quench His work in us especially if we question His promise of making His Home in the believer. With all this, to receive His Holy Spirit we love Him unconditionally with agape love , an innocent love that is as natural as breathing and as essential as life itself.
Be blessed.
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I don't think Romans 8:16 necessarily implies that either your or I will have a significant, notable "feeling" that will accompany our realization that we identify with Jesus Christ.
Try not to discourage yourself by holding expectations for involuntary emotional elation to appear in your decision to follow the Lord.
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I don't know how long you've been Christian but God often "withdraws" the sense of His presence as part of our spiritual development.
Some of God's most faithful servants feel most abandoned.
Mother Teresa was one of them.
St. Mother Teresa and Spiritual Desolation
When I read Come Be My Light: The Private Writings of the Saint of Calcutta I had to stop right around chapter 8. I knew St. Mother Teresa had experienced a time of spiritual desolation but reading her own words about it was hard. I didn’t want to go there. I didn’t want to consider what that...
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That's true. Even though I was raised Protestant, I read about the saints experience, since there seems to be no such record of people's experiences with the Holy Spirit recorded in Protestantism. I wonder how this reconciles with Romans 8:9 ,I believe where it says basically if you don't have the spirit , you don't belong to Him.I don't know how long you've been Christian but God often "withdraws" the sense of His presence as part of our spiritual development.
Some of God's most faithful servants feel most abandoned.
Mother Teresa was one of them.
St. Mother Teresa and Spiritual Desolation
When I read Come Be My Light: The Private Writings of the Saint of Calcutta I had to stop right around chapter 8. I knew St. Mother Teresa had experienced a time of spiritual desolation but reading her own words about it was hard. I didn’t want to go there. I didn’t want to consider what that...
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0
The Spirit does not like to just layback and set around doing nothing. You are in control of what you do and the Spirit Loves to partner with you in doing "Good Works", but He does not force you to do good works.
Start doing some good stuff not because you feel you must, but simple out of your Love for God (wash the dishes) and the Spirit will join you.
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If you don't have the spirit, you can't even claim Jesus Christ is Lord.
As Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 12-24 "22Jews demand signs and Greeks search for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,c 24but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."
If someone doesn't have God's spirit, the message of Christ is foolishness. You still believe in Christ, even if you are not getting what is called "consolations" for the time being. The spiritual gurus call the dry times "desolations", which is possibly what you're going through.
One thing that was part of my own "spiritual experience" in my protestant days was that on a few occasions I used to get dreams or visions which just showed a snake's tail slithering away. That was about all it was.
I asked the pastor about this and he said it was probably an indication of some demonic influence.
Some years later I read a book "Weeds Among the Wheat: Discernment: Where Prayer and Action Meet" by Thomas H. Green. It was based on Ignatian discernment, but he used the exact term "tail of the snake".
An AI comment on this phrase is as follows -
In my case though I would literally see the "tail of a snake".
Last year as I was walking our local bush track, snake tails slithered off the track three times in very close proximity to me. I just about stood on one of them.
We've been here for 34 years and I've probably walked the track a few hundred times, but they have been the only times I've seen a snake. Coincidence probably, unless I'm getting advance notice of some sort of demonic harassment.
Anyway I was intrigued by the fact I had visions of snakes tails and then later happened to buy a (Catholic) book which used that very term as part of Ignatian spirituality.
As the pastor said it was probably a sign of some sort of demonic harassment.
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ViaCrucis
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The thing about our feelings is that they are fickle and never a reliable indicator of our relationship with God.
The foundation of our relationship with God is the mercy and love of God in Christ, who suffered and died for you and me, all of us wretched sinners and proclaimed us forgiven and just on His account.
We must therefore always look outside of ourselves, never within ourselves, to have our confidence and assurance of who we are in God. It is always in the external word, in the Holy Gospel, in God's promises. This is why we can look to our baptism and remember that here is where God made His sacred pledge over us by declaring us crucified, buried, and alive with and in Christ.
How do we know we are saved? Because Christ died for us.
How can we know we are saved? Because God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world.
How can we be confident that we are saved? Because we are baptized, because the Gospel is preached and it creates faith in our hearts--this is a precious gift of the Holy Spirit who brings us the comfort of the Gospel, and who dwells in us according to God's promise in Christ.
So don't look to your feelings--but to Christ. Your feelings will lead you astray, but trust always in the Lord, for His word endures forever.
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NewLifeInChristJesus
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15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. (Ro 8:15–17)
These verses do not say that all saved people notice/feel the Holy Spirit. They tell us what God is doing inside the hearts of everyone in whom He lives. By His Spirit we address God as Daddy and Father because His Spirit informs us that we are in fact His children (and joint heirs with Christ). These verses give us an opportunity to look inside our hearts and verify that these things are actually happening. When we see that they are, it is then that we notice/feel the Holly Spirit.
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Minister Monardo
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Hebrews 2:
2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast,
and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward,
3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation,
which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord,
and was confirmed to us by those who heard.
We are instructed to abide in the promised Holy Spirit.
When we neglect the gift of salvation,
there must be correction that is accepted as God's Love.
Hebrews 12:
6 For whom the LORD loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.
7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons;
for what son is there whom a father does not chasten?
8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers,
then you are illegitimate and not sons.
What is the Spirit in which we are to abide??
Romans 8:
15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear,
but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed
we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
Therefore the question being proposed, to be more specific is
can an illegitimate child who receives no inheritance in the Kingdom
still be saved?
That is not a question someone of sound mind should explore.
2 Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear,
but of power and of love and of a sound mind.
As to those who would ask how do I know my place in the Kingdom?
Romans 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking,
but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Are you living in fear, or at rest and in peace?
Have you endured persecution for righteousness sake?
Is the Joy of the Lord your strength?
Matthew 5:10
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
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