Rep. Dan Goldman addresses Brooklyn coffee shop banning him over his views on Israel

Stopped_lurking said:

I'm only pointing out that the post doesn't identify jews or even Israel in general as the reason for not wanting the money.

Click to expand...

Yes it does. It cited AIPAC an organisation that supports Isreal and the Jews and Zionism. AIPAC is fundamentally rooted in Zionist principles, which support the right of the Jewish people to self-determination and a sovereign homeland in Israel.

Stopped_lurking said:

Read the post, that is all we now.

Click to expand...

So tell me what was the issue that the coffee shop had with Goldman. I have read the article and researched all parties involved. There seems to be a reluctance to fully understand and appreciate what is going on.

They attacked him for supporting Isreal and alleged his money came from AIPAC. Which they say is supporting genocide. They singled him out for supporting Isreal and by extention the righst of the Jewish people to the land.

AIPAC supports and advocates for the Jews and zionism. Its quite simple when you look at it.

Stopped_lurking said:

They don't like AIPAC, perhaps? It is not antisemitism to not like AIPAC.

Click to expand...

Yes it is. AIPAC represents Isreal and the Jews. They support zionist principles. attacking AIPAC and associating them with genocide is attacking Isreal and the Jews by extension.

Stopped_lurking said:

Let's see if they get convicted of anything. Allegations are not evidence of wrongdoing.

Click to expand...

It does not matter. Its morally wrong and malice. It has upset the very people you claim it was not about. The proof is in the pudding. They took down their post because it was wrong. They stirred up division and caused people to be upset.

The fact that the DOJ is investigating whethe rthey have breached any law is irrelevant as far as the moral wrong. If they had down nothing wrong then there would not have been such a reaction across society.

Stopped_lurking said:

From where did you quote it then?

Click to expand...

It was not about the moral void but the fact that having a common belief and worldview is more conducive to a unified society and nation. Thats all it was about.

The moral void is a seperate issue about what people are united about. The point was not about which morals or beliefs. But that having aunified belief and morality unites people. Thats it.

This was to explain how the current divisions and fighting on the streets, in coffee shops ect is because of the underlying divisions about social issues across the board. That is when we had unity it was not as divided because everyone already agreed on most of these matters.

Now we have people banning and cancelling each other and even commiting violence and murder because of that division and hatred. Thats all the point was. That we once had unity because we had a common belief and worldview and now we don't. This is an attempt to explain the chaos now happening in western cultures.

You need to do some homework I think as you are not understanding the underlying reasons why all this is happening in the first place. We never use to assault and kill people for their beliefs and views.

I think social media also has contributed. That is where the coffee shop and other social justice warriors hide. Keyboard wariors spewing their hate onto others. The coffee shop incident is just one of 1,000s happening now over various social issues. .

stevevw said:

Yes it does. It cited AIPAC an organisation that supports Isreal and the Jews and Zionism. AIPAC is fundamentally rooted in Zionist principles, which support the right of the Jewish people to self-determination and a sovereign homeland in Israel.

https://www.adl.org/resources/article/anti-israel-and-antisemitic-activists-target-aipac-conference

So tell me what was the issue that the coffee shop had with Goldman. I have read the article and researched all parties involved. There seems to be a reluctance to fully understand and appreciate what is going on.

They attacked him for supporting Isreal and alleged his money came from AIPAC. Which they say is supporting genocide. They singled him out for supporting Isreal and by extention the righst of the Jewish people to the land.

AIPAC supports and advocates for the Jews and zionism. Its quite simple when you look at it.

Yes it is. AIPAC represents Isreal and the Jews.

Click to expand...

No, AIPAC does not represent Israel in any formal capacity nor do they represent jews in general.

stevevw said:

They support zionist principles. attacking AIPAC and associating them with genocide is attacking Isreal and the Jews by extension.

It does not matter. Its morally wrong and malice. It has upset the very people you claim it was not about.

Click to expand...

I have not made that claim. Where did I say that?

stevevw said:

The proof is in the pudding. They took down their post because it was wrong. They stirred up division and caused people to be upset.

The fact that the DOJ is investigating whethe rthey have breached any law is irrelevant as far as the moral wrong. If they had down nothing wrong then there would not have been such a reaction across society.

Click to expand...

stevevw said:

It was not about the moral void but the fact that having a common belief and worldview is more conducive to a unified society and nation. Thats all it was about.

The moral void is a seperate issue about what people are united about. The point was not about which morals or beliefs. But that having aunified belief and morality unites people. Thats it.

This was to explain how the current divisions and fighting on the streets, in coffee shops ect is because of the underlying divisions about social issues across the board. That is when we had unity it was not as divided because everyone already agreed on most of these matters.

Now we have people banning and cancelling each other and even commiting violence and murder because of that division and hatred. Thats all the point was. That we once had unity because we had a common belief and worldview and now we don't. This is an attempt to explain the chaos now happening in western cultures.

You need to do some homework I think as you are not understanding the underlying reasons why all this is happening in the first place.

Click to expand...

How did you come to that conclusion? All I'm asking is where you got that quote from.

stevevw said:

We never use to assault and kill people for their beliefs and views.

Click to expand...

Did you miss the 30 years war? The french revolution? Scottish-english wars? The italian and german unification wars?The revolutions of 1848? The various anti-catholic movements during the 19th century? The rise of authoritarianism in the early 20th century? The ward that lead to the rise of christian fascism in Spain and Portugal? The Troubles? That is off the top of my head conflicts that in some way was conflicts (where people died) over religion or political views.

ETA: I betray my non-US perspective, how could I miss this example.

People were murdered during the US civil rights movement, in the 50s.

The australian frontier wars didn't end until the 1930s, they were deeply rooted in racist views of the indigenous population.

stevevw said:

I think social media also has contributed. That is where the coffee shop and other social justice warriors hide. Keyboard wariors spewing their hate onto others. The coffee shop incident is just one of 1,000s happening now over various social issues. .

Click to expand...

So where did you quote it?

Stopped_lurking said:

No, AIPAC does not represent Israel in any formal capacity nor do they represent jews in general.

Click to expand...

Its American pro-Israel lobbying group. Its there in the name. Its pro Isreal. It supports Isreal. It lobby;s the US government for and on behalf of Isreal. So anyone supporting AIPAC is seen as also supporting Isreal and their interests.

In terms of the genocide remark it is clear that the coffee shop was anti Isreal. They specifically mentions Goldmans money was probably from AIPAC who were endorsing him. So they were targeting him for his association with AIPAC.

Stopped_lurking said:

I have not made that claim. Where did I say that?

Click to expand...

We are debating whether what the coffee shop said was targeted at Isrealis and Jews. You said these were no mentions of the words Isreal and Jews and it was not directly about the Isrealis and Jews.

I pointed out that the very people being denied it was about are the ones upset and protesting. All the Jewish Civil rights organisations and everyday Jews protesting out front of the coffee shop.

So it seems you may think it was not about them. But the very people in question do. So in reality many people understood this as a targeted attack on Isreal and the Jews. And Goldman for having association with them and their reps.

stevevw said:

Its American pro-Israel lobbying group. Its there in the name. Its pro Isreal. It supports Isreal. It lobby;s the US government for and on behalf of Isreal. So anyone supporting AIPAC is seen as also supporting Isreal and their interests.

Click to expand...

It is not a formal or official part of Israel or the israeli government. They don't take directions from the israeli government, according to their webpage.

stevevw said:

In terms of the genocide remark it is clear that the coffee shop was anti Isreal. They specifically mentions Goldmans money was probably from AIPAC who were endorsing him. So they were targeting him for his association with AIPAC.

We are debating whether what the coffee shop said was targeted at Isrealis and Jews. You said these were no mentions of the words Isreal and Jews and it was not directly about the Isrealis and Jews.

Click to expand...

I only commented about what the post said. Can you go back and change your post now? Don't make false statement about what I claim, please.

stevevw said:

I pointed out that the very people being denied it was about are the ones upset and protesting. All the Jewish Civil rights organisations and everyday Jews protesting out front of the coffee shop.

So it seems you may think it was not about them. But the very people in question do. So in reality many people understood this as a targeted attack on Isreal and the Jews. And Goldman for having association with them and their reps.

Click to expand...

Allegations are not evidence.

stevevw said:

Its pro Isreal. It supports Isreal. It lobby;s the US government for and on behalf of Isreal.

Click to expand...

...and they got a sweetheart deal to do it that makes it so they don't have to register as foreign agents and be regulated as such.

stevevw said:

So anyone supporting AIPAC is seen as also supporting Isreal and their interests.

Click to expand...

Typically above those of the US.

Stopped_lurking said:

It is not a formal or official part of Israel or the israeli government. They don't take directions from the israeli government, according to their webpage.


I only commented about what the post said. Can you go back and change your post now? Don't make false statement about what I claim, please.



Allegations are not evidence.

Click to expand...

Anyway I have said what I said and I don't think theres much more to say. We just see it differently. Maybe it depends on understanding and people have a different way to see the issue. Thats how I see it anyway.