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Mercy Shown

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I think the cross of Christ will and is drawing His people out of babylon.

In scripture, Babylon isn't just a physical, ancient city; it is a spiritual archetype. It represents the ultimate human system of self-sufficiency, pride, commercialism, and, most dangerously, counterfeit spiritual authority. It is the system that tries to build a tower to heaven on human terms, using human organization, human power, and human glory.

When you look at the fractured, institutionalized state of Christendom, it becomes clear that the "Babylonian spirit" didn’t stay outside the church gates. It snuck inside. It’s what convinces us to build our own little theological empires, brand our ministries, and value institutional security over the unpredictable, disruptive movement of the Holy Spirit.

But the good news is that the Cross Destroys the Currency of Babylon because Babylon operates on the currency of human achievement, performance, image, and control. It asks, "Look at this great city I have built by my own power" (Daniel 4:30).

It is leveling the ground completely, the cross says that all human achievement and corporate status are worth nothing when it comes to righteousness. It strips leaders and institutions of their self-made resumes.

You cannot boast in your theological fortress or your flawless execution when standing before a crucified Savior. It forces us to drop our building materials.

The Cross Demands a Relocation of Citizenship. To come out of Babylon means to stop looking to the systems of this world, and the worldly systems within the church, for identity, protection, and validation.

Stop worshiping special doctrines that are seperating people from the body of Christ into just a collection of body parts at war with eachother.

The Cross acts as a radical boundary marker. In Galatians 6:14, Paul writes, "May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world." The cross makes a believer fundamentally incompatible with the Babylonian spirit of self-preservation and control. It ruins us for the empire.

The Cross Swaps Control for Surrender. The entire foundation of Babylon is building a system so secure that you don't need to rely on a volatile, unseen God. It is the ultimate manifestation of the "boxed-up" life on a corporate scale.

The cross is the place of total, agonizing, beautiful relinquishment of control. It is Jesus saying, "Not my will, but yours be done." When the cross truly takes root in a person's life, it shatters their need to manage God. It makes us willing to let our own tightly-wound plans be wrecked so that a higher kingdom can be established.

There is a profound shaking happening when people look at the division, the political maneuvering, and the dead institutionalism of modern religious structures and find themselves deeply grieved. That grief isn't a sign of backsliding; it's often the Holy Spirit creating a holy homesickness.

The call in Revelation 18:4 "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins" isn't a call to leave a physical building. It is a call to leave behind the mindset of control, the pride of intellectual supremacy, and the fear of supernatural dependence.

It is a scary thing to step out of the fortified walls of a predictable, human-engineered "Babylonian" way of doing church, because outside those walls, you have nothing to lean on but the Spirit of God. But that is exactly where the true, unfractured Body of Christ is found, clinging to the cross, out in the open air.
 

ViaCrucis

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In St. John's Apocalypse, one of the visions John experiences is that of a woman riding a crimson beast, she is described as a harlot, and has the name "Babylon". When John inquires as to the meaning of what he sees, his angelic guide gives him an answer: The woman, Babylon, is a city, a city that resides on seven hills. The city is essentially the center of the civilized world, it's Rome. Rome was the seat of all political and military power in the time of St. John, and under Nero (and later emperors) actively persecuted the Church, being as it were drunk on the blood of the saints.

The beast the woman rides upon is the imperial color, a clear allusion to Roman imperial power; with the many heads and many crowns being a sequence of rulers--emperors. We read that five have come and gone, one currently was (when John wrote the Revelation), with the seventh still to come.

The entire vision is a clear rebuke of Pagan Rome during the time of St. John the Revelator, which had under Nero inaugurated a period of persecution against the Church. And while the Church had enjoyed relative peace since the end of Nero's reign, early Church histories teach us that under Domitian the Church again began to suffer, and this only became increased in Domitian's successors, such as Trajan and Hadrian. The on-again, off-again formal persecution against the Church under Rome would continue for the next couple centuries, with the most brutal persecution occurring during the reign of Diocletian--and persecution would only end finally with the Edict of Toleration under Emperor Constantine.

The immediate, contextual meaning of Babylon in the Revelation is ancient imperial Rome contemporary with the time of St. John when he wrote the Revelation.

One can make an argument that, in some ways, all violent, tyrannical, oppressive power structures are a kind of "Babylon". But this is more application than interpretation. In the same way that one might speak of the power of Pharoah as an archetype for tyranny and oppression, but which does not change the historic context and interpretation of the Exodus story which happened at a particular time and place, with Pharoah being a very specific historic individual in the story.
 
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The Liturgist

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No Christian denomination including the Roman Catholic Church can be part of Babylon by definition, since Babylon by nature refers to that which is worldly, secular or pagan.
 
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The Liturgist

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One can make an argument that, in some ways, all violent, tyrannical, oppressive power structures are a kind of "Babylon". But this is more application than interpretation. In the same way that one might speak of the power of Pharoah as an archetype for tyranny and oppression, but which does not change the historic context and interpretation of the Exodus story which happened at a particular time and place, with Pharoah being a very specific historic individual in the story.

It seems to me limiting the definition of Babylon merely to oppressive regimes (which is also subjective, by the way, since even a responsible government must seem oppressive to criminals and use proportionate violence as needed to prevent further violence, for example, to dissuade rioters, neutralize invaders and prosecute robbers and murderers, and what constitutes proportionate tends to be related to cultural values and the definition has changed over time - a few centuries ago hanging was regarded as a proper and proportionate response of government to the issue of theft for example).

Rather Babylon should be extended to the entire secular-material reality where it is unenlightened by Christ. The middle aged middle manager in Japan laid off by a Keiretsu due to office politics despite being implicitly promised lifetime employment, and the prisoner in the North Korean labor camp toiling under brutality, and the gangster being assaulted by rival gangsters are all victims of Bablyon, but so is the woman gambling away her life savings at a slot machine in Atlantic City, or the homosexual tech manager in San Francisco who modifies a platform to penalize traditional Christians for their Scriptural sexual morality, or the Hindu saddhu practicing yoga in the Himalayas, or the Mormon missionaries excited to be sent to a far off land thinking they’re spreading the Gospel when in fact they’re enriching and perpetuating a bureaucratic establishment in Salt Lake City and wasting the best years of their lives in the service of evil - all of these people are equally and to the same extent victims of Babylon, which is human activity organized around sinful ends, in opposition to what St. Augustine called “the City of God,” in his beautiful reassurance to Romans distressed by the collapse of the Western Empire and the increasing failure of civil institutions due to the advances of various barbarian tribes (who were in turn themselves Christianized), and while things did get a bit rough in Western Europe, the Dark Ages were never as dark or as horrible as some people claim - even at its lowest low Rome still had one working aqueduct providing a supply of fresh water.
 
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Delvianna

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No Christian denomination including the Roman Catholic Church can be part of Babylon by definition, since Babylon by nature refers to that which is worldly, secular or pagan.
Dont forget its called Mystery and then given symbolism. And don't forget, its not like Babylon didnt know who God was. Did you forget about Daniel? Who literally lived in Babylon and was a royal official to Nebuchadnezzar who literally honored God eventually (Daniel 4).

Also:

Jeremiah 50:24
“I laid a snare for you, and you were taken, O Babylon, and you did not know it; you were found and also caught, because you have striven against the LORD.”

Interesting phrase because Nebuchadnezzars son Belshazzar knew about what happened with his Father and decided to go against God anyway. Thats when the writing on the wall happened. (Daniel 5). So I dont agree that denominations or churches cannot be involved in this if they are actively going against God and what he teaches with false doctrine.
 
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The Liturgist

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Dont forget its called Mystery and then given symbolism. And don't forget, its not like Babylon didnt know who God was. Did you forget about Daniel? Who literally lived in Babylon and was a royal official to Nebuchadnezzar who literally honored God eventually (Daniel 4).

Indeed, Babylon is orchestrated by the Prince of Power of the Air. And it does include counterfeit Christian sects like the Mormons and various non-Trinitarians. However, the argument that it refers to the Roman Catholic Church or other traditional Christians or that the RCC is “the harlot of Babylon” is offensive and inflammatory and uncharitable and is not supported by Scripture.

The pale of Jerusalem is the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed of 381.
 
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