Do you eat pork?

Xeno.of.athens said:

The Old Testament forbids the eating of pork and that would include bacon and all pig meats of every kind; things like salami, bruschetta, and heaps of others too. But do you eat pork? Are you exempt from the laws about foods?

The following line of argument is not my own personal belief; it is presented as the strongest case for forbidding pork that I could conceive.

The Law of Moses explicitly forbids eating pork, declaring the pig “unclean” and its flesh not to be eaten or even touched (Lev 11:7–8; Deut 14:8). These commands are grounded not in health or culture but in God’s own holiness: “Be holy, for I am holy” (Lev 11:44–45). Because God’s holiness does not change (Mal 3:6; Jas 1:17), a maximalist reading argues that what God once called unclean cannot later become clean without implying change in God Himself. This is strengthened by the fact that Jesus affirms the enduring validity of the Law—“not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law” (Matt 5:17–19)—and nowhere explicitly permits pork.

The prophets intensify this argument by placing pork-eating within the context of divine judgment. Isaiah condemns those who “eat swine’s flesh” (Isa 65:3–4) and, in an eschatological prophecy, declares that those who “sanctify and purify themselves… eating the flesh of swine” will be destroyed at the Lord’s final coming (Isa 66:15–17). Because this prophecy concerns the end times rather than the Mosaic covenant, a strict interpreter argues that pork-eating is not merely ceremonial but morally repugnant to God and remains so until the consummation of history.

The New Testament provides no explicit permission to eat pork. Peter, long after the Resurrection, still refuses unclean animals (Acts 10:14), and the Jerusalem Church remains Torah‑observant (Acts 21:20). The Apostolic Council imposes dietary restrictions on Gentiles (Acts 15:20, 29) but never mentions pork, which a maximalist reading interprets as evidence that the prohibition remained assumed. Paul affirms that “the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and just and good” (Rom 7:12) and never directly addresses pork. Thus, the strongest scriptural case concludes that the holiness code—including the prohibition of pork—reflects God’s unchanging holiness and remains binding unless explicitly revoked, which the canonical Scriptures never unambiguously do.

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Either One believes Paul was actually an apostle and inspired by Christ or they don't...........................
Romans 14:3 The one who eats everything must not belittle the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted him. Romans 14:3 - The Law of Liberty

Jesus said..............................
Matthew 15:11 - Bible Gateway Matthew 15:11 - Bible Gateway

Matthew 15:17 - Bible Gateway Matthew 15:17 - Bible Gateway

Luke 10:8 If you enter a town and they welcome you, eat whatever is set before you. Luke 10:8 - Jesus Sends Out the Disciples

Paul said ...............................
1 Corinthians 10:27 - Bible Gateway 1 Corinthians 10:27 - Bible Gateway

God reprimanded Peter .......................
All kinds of four footed animals, pigs have four feet - so one cannot say a pig or hog was not in that bunch that the Lord told Peter to kill and eat...............
Acts 10: 12 -15 NIV - It contained all kinds of four-footed - Bible Gateway Bible Gateway passage: Acts 10:12-15 - New International Version

Xeno.of.athens said:

Holy Tradition is much more assertive about eating pork if you want to than anything in the canonical New Testament and for us that is solid and sound reason to assert that Christians are NOT prohibited from eating pork.

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Well, there are indeed no canons prohibiting pork consumption in either the Orthodox or Catholic nomocanons (indices of canon law - the collection of ancient canon law before your church first revived it is called the “Decretals” and has some overlap with the Pedallion and other compendiums of Eastern Orthodox canons - note in the Orthodox case I don’t refer to them as legislation since to a large extent they can be enforced with akrivia (exactness) or oikonomia (looseness, flexibility) in order to best facilitate the spiritual needs of the people.

Conversely I’m unaware of anything mandating it, and I absolutely read Acts 15 and other NT scripture as allowing it if read using inductive reason - now to be clear, I haven’t gone sola scriptura, as I am committed to prima scriptura in part because I feel that the accomodation of tradition in Lutheranism and Anglicanism and other traditional Protestantism, while definitely present, suffers from vagueness and provisionality, which is why my High Church Anglican and Evangelical Catholic Lutheran friends make the sign of the cross while others, sometimes in the same specific denomination, will look at me oddly for making it - specifically the presence of low church denominations which also claim to be sola scriptura and propagate their interpretations as the correct ones can sometimes influence more low church members in other denominations and spread unscriptural ideas like the Regulative Principle, or antidicomarianism, or the rejection of the episcopate, or many other things, more recently the departure from normative standards of human sexuality (which paradoxically has spread into some liberal bishops of the RCC but which will hopefully be stopped in time, however, what happened to the non-Sola Scriptura Union of Utrecht is a warning that following the Patristic approach of Prima Scriptura is not enough - an absolute commitment to preserving the Apostolic Tradition without change or concession to modernity is required and unfortunately some of your bishops, particularly in Germany, italy, Ireland and in those parts of Latin America where Liberation Theology is popular, seem to disagree with Pope St. Pius X’s rejection of modernism.

Bob Crowley said:

We are under the new Covenant, not the Mosaic Law.

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This should’ve ended the thread right here… Anyways, Paul addressed this issue in Romans because this exact topic was creating division. He writes to the Jews because they are tempted to judge gentiles for not observing holy days & dietary restrictions. He also addressed gentiles who are tempted to despise Jews for still observing them. Both parties needed correction. So whether you cut the pork or not - your salvation isn’t dependent on it.

“One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14‬:‭5‬-‭8‬ ‭ESV‬‬

BobRyan said:

good points all. Well done

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For me, it's pretty simple. Jesus said;

Matt. 6: 31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

This in undeniably true. By God's very creation, a common man must eat and drink to survive. And God surely knows this, since HE created us. So what does Jesus instruct me to do?

33 But seek ye first the kingdom "of God", and "his righteousness"; and all these things shall be added unto you.

And where does God give men instruction in His righteousness, According to Paul?

2 Tim. 3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God "may be perfect", throughly furnished unto all good works.

Well, anyone with the Oracles of God in their own homes, knows full well what the God and Father of all instructs His Children concerning what is food and what is not food. Shall I not believe Him?

And I too, am a father of a child. And like every father I have ever met, I had the right, actually demanded the right, actually it is the duty of all decent fathers, to instruct their child as to what is food and what is not food. And my daughter needed the instruction, because as a toddler she would pick up anything and put it in her mouth. Even a dog turd, because as a child she didn't know what was food and what wasn't. I had to instruct her, and I'll tell you, if someone else came along and told her it was OK to reject her fathers instruction, and go ahead and eat the dog turd, or anything I instructed her wasn't food, I would have a big problem with that person. Even of they called Jesus Lord, Lord.

What kind of child of God would I be, if I demanded the right to instruct my own child as to what is food and what is not, but denied and rejected the God and Father of all, the same right to instruct HIS Children as to what is food and what isn't. Especially after Jesus Himself told to me to "SEEK" God's Instruction concerning this very issue. And Jesus Himself, at least the Jesus "of the Bible" confirmed His Own Statement by telling me that I am to "Live By" Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

So yes, there are "many", who come in Christ's Name, that mock me, and mock God's Laws they don't understand, nor do they care to understand. But these people don't believe God is ALL Wisdom, and ALL knowledge and Righteousness. They don't understand the Blessing this instruction concerning what is food and what is not food, brings to those who honor their FATHER in the instruction. Every time I grocery shop, the Word of God is retained in my mind, as I read the ingredients. Every time I eat, go to a restaurant, I retain the knowledge of God in my heart. And this expands to teachings as well, teaching that Paul called "Meat" many times in his Epistles. And Paul understood that the Christ, who became a man in the person of Jesus, gave Israel, "Spiritual Meat" and "Spiritual Drink", which is "Teaching". This is all part of the Armor of God, in my view, and helps me to discern what to consume, or bring into my body, whether it's through the mouth, ears or eyes.

But if a man refuses to Trust God, or control the lust of his own flesh concerning something as basic and easy to understand as what is food, and what is not food, according to HIS righteous Judgments, what does that say for the man, and his love for the Father? For me, I don't want to be in a place at the resurrection, talking to Jesus Face to face, trying to justify this or any rebellion. I mean, what would I say to Him? "But Lord, Lord, didn't I do wonderful works in your name"?

iHarken said:

“One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

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“One person esteems one day as better than another, while another (person) esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

Why would I "Yield myself" a servant to obey the opinions of one person, who esteems a day, or another person who doesn't esteem a day? Paul certainly doesn't promote such a philosophy. I have wondered many times how this verse of Paul is used to justify rejecting God's Judgments. I don't understand how they come to that conclusion.

What is each man to be fully convinced in his own mind of? Isn't it what God Esteems, that matters? What God's Righteousness is. Are we not to become "Servants of God's Righteousness, according to Paul? I mean, you can't "make" a person believe God's instruction in righteousness. They must come to Him, or as Paul teaches, "Repent, Turn to God, and bring works worthy of repentance", of their own free will.

Does God esteem some days, above other days? Shouldn't we then Honor God in submission to Him, and not this man, or that man? Isn't that what Paul teaches the Holy Scriptures were given to us for?

2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Studyman said:

“One person esteems one day as better than another, while another (person) esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

Why would I "Yield myself" a servant to obey the opinions of one person, who esteems a day, or another person who doesn't esteem a day? Paul certainly doesn't promote such a philosophy. I have wondered many times how this verse of Paul is used to justify rejecting God's Judgments. I don't understand how they come to that conclusion.

What is each man to be fully convinced in his own mind of? Isn't it what God Esteems, that matters? What God's Righteousness is. Are we not to become "Servants of God's Righteousness, according to Paul? I mean, you can't "make" a person believe God's instruction in righteousness. They must come to Him, or as Paul teaches, "Repent, Turn to God, and bring works worthy of repentance", of their own free will.

Does God esteem some days, above other days? Shouldn't we then Honor God in submission to Him, and not this man, or that man? Isn't that what Paul teaches the Holy Scriptures were given to us for?

2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

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Firstly, if you still want to practice the Mosiac Law, then practice all of it. Either Christ’s death fulfilled the Law or it didn’t. If it didn’t, then you’re a practicing Jew, because you reject Jesus’ new covenant. You trying to find the middle ground is the definition of creating a narrative to fit an agenda.

Secondly, Romans 14 isn’t about obeying man. In summery: it’s about not letting the shame of others overthrow the unity of the church. Paul is dealing with doubtful disputations. You confuse matters of conviction with matters of righteousness. You do not force other men to obey your convictions; just as you do not obey the convictions of other men. That’s what it means to be convinced in your own mind. How can you say Paul doesn’t promote such philosophy? It’s literally his words:

“Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don’t. And those who don’t eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14‬:‭3‬ ‭NLT‬‬

Xeno.of.athens said:

Good passage to keep in mind but it does not give explicit permission to eat pork.

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What is does do, is rebuke those who judge those who do.

Xeno.of.athens said:

The Old Testament forbids the eating of pork and that would include bacon and all pig meats of every kind; things like salami, bruschetta, and heaps of others too. But do you eat pork? Are you exempt from the laws about foods?

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I was born and raised into Seventh-day Adventism. My mother, an Adventist, was divorced from my father and remarried. We ate clean meat and vegetarian dishes. When I went to visit my father every other weekend, his wife always had some pork item, usually pork chops. My mother would interrogate me when I got home. This would lead to arguments between my parents over the phone. Much like the discussions on this forum, they went back and forth on it with scripture, but nothing was ever resolved.

At age sixteen I moved in with my father and the unclean meat rule went out the window, as did Christianity. For thirty years (most of my adult life) I gorged myself on unclean meat. I was making up for lost time, I guess.

In 2016 I came back to Christianity, specifically Seventh-day Adventism.

I had tried for many years to wean myself off of meat, but with little success. My diabetes diagnosis in 2018 gave me the push I needed to be more serious about my diet, and so I kept trying new things until the vegetarian thing stuck. I found dishes I enjoyed, and had a lot of Adventist vegetarian recipes/heritage to fall back on.

I am now eating a mostly vegetarian diet. I do not eat pork, nor any other unclean meat.

Regarding what scripture says, I agree with the OP.

Hebrews 4 says that the handwriting of ordinances were against us. Dietary laws were never against us, they were for our health. The animals haven't changed (see Bob's post) since those dietary laws were given, so I don't think we can say that it is okay to eat unclean meat. The few verses that seem to say we can eat what we want are taken out of context, and this has been shown on the forums many times since I've been here. Also, I would point to the verses SabbathBlessings quoted concerning eating pork (et al; unclean meat); showing that God takes it seriously.

It is my personal belief, based on scripture, that in the least we should be eating clean meat, but that the best possible diet is a vegetarian one. (Also, statistics from Blue Zones prove that to be true.) It is my personal experience that I am much healthier now than I have been in decades, because of my vegetarian diet. I recently had a colonoscopy and they found no issues, which I consider to be a miracle of epic proportions, but I have been eating vegetarian for many years now.

A whole other argument could be made, and often is on this forum, concerning how our bodies are not our own, and are temples for the Holy Spirit.

iHarken said:

Firstly, if you still want to practice the Mosiac Law, then practice all of it.

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Firstly, It is Christ's LAW, not Moses Law. And Christ said to "Keep it". Both as the Word of God, the Holy One of Israel who gave Israel HIS Spiritual meat and drink, and as the mortal flesh and blood Man Jesus, this same Christ Became.

So yes, if I want to Honor my Lord Jesus, I will deny my flesh, and Yield myself to Him, and become a "Doer" of His Sayings, not a hearer only. As HE instructs.

Even if there are "many", who come in Christ's Name, that discourage such practice.

iHarken said:

Either Christ’s death fulfilled the Law or it didn’t.

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Yes, the Law prophesied about Him, His Righteousness, and His Murder. Truly this Law was fulfilled by His Death. Are you saying then, that after His Murder, those people whose sins HE forgave, and His Instruction to "Go and sin no more", become null and void? That His instruction for men to "Live By" EVERY Word that Proceeds from the mouth of God, is destroyed and becomes obsolete?

iHarken said:

If it didn’t, then you’re a practicing Jew, because you reject Jesus’ new covenant. You trying to find the middle ground is the definition of creating a narrative to fit an agenda.

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Well I admit that I believe in the Jesus "of the bible". And HE did teach me that "Salvation is of the Jews". I can show you His Words if you have never read them before. And A Jew, is one inwardly, and the Children of Abraham, are those who do the works of Abraham. And what were the Works of Abraham, according to the Spirit of Christ? Here, I'll show you His Words.

Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

I would ask you a question. In your understanding of Scriptures, Is this not the Words of the Christ, the Holy One of Israel, who became a flesh and blood mortal human in the Person of Jesus?

iHarken said:

Secondly, Romans 14 isn’t about obeying man.

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Actually, Romans 14 is about men who have "Yielded themselves" to God and their bodies as instruments of Righteousness to God who are new members of the Body, and weak in the Faith. (Belief) At least this is what Paul teaches. "Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations." ( doubtful debates or arguments)

iHarken said:

In summery: it’s about not letting the shame of others overthrow the unity of the church.

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It is my belief that a man should consider all of Paul's Teaching, knowing that he doesn't contradict himself.

Eph. 4: 1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you ( ask (someone) urgently and fervently to do something; implore; entreat)
that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, (Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.)

2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, "who is above all", and through all, and in you all.

So Paul is promoting this same Unity for those, both Jew and Gentile who have "Repented, Turned to God and are bringing forth Fruits Worthy of Repentance". These "Works" Paul is promoting, they wouldn't be the same "works" these same believers engaged in, "Wherein in time past they walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience", would they?

And didn't Paul teach, and strive himself, for the perfection that was in Christ Jesus?

Phil. 3: 12 Not as though I had already attained, "either were already perfect": but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God "in Christ Jesus".

15 Let us therefore, "as many as be perfect", be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

The implication of your religious philosophy, that Paul taught a different Gospel to the "Weak in Faith", than the Philippians or Colossians or Ephesians is from somewhere, but not from the Scriptures. And the implication of your post that the perfection that was in Christ Jesus, didn't include the Days His Father Esteemed above others, or His Fathers instruction to His Children concerning what is food and what is not, although popular in the religions of this world, simply do not reflect what is actually written in Scriptures.

But as Paul teaches, let each person be convinced in his own mind, who they should "Yield themselves" servants to obey.

Studyman said:

Firstly, It is Christ's LAW, not Moses Law. And Christ said to "Keep it". Both as the Word of God, the Holy One of Israel who gave Israel HIS Spiritual meat and drink, and as the mortal flesh and blood Man Jesus, this same Christ Became.

So yes, if I want to Honor my Lord Jesus, I will deny my flesh, and Yield myself to Him, and become a "Doer" of His Sayings, not a hearer only. As HE instructs.

Even if there are "many", who come in Christ's Name, that discourage such practice.



Yes, the Law prophesied about Him, His Righteousness, and His Murder. Truly this Law was fulfilled by His Death. Are you saying then, that after His Murder, those people whose sins HE forgave, and His Instruction to "Go and sin no more", become null and void? That His instruction for men to "Live By" EVERY Word that Proceeds from the mouth of God, is destroyed and becomes obsolete?



Well I admit that I believe in the Jesus "of the bible". And HE did teach me that "Salvation is of the Jews". I can show you His Words if you have never read them before. And A Jew, is one inwardly, and the Children of Abraham, are those who do the works of Abraham. And what were the Works of Abraham, according to the Spirit of Christ? Here, I'll show you His Words.

Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

I would ask you a question. In your understanding of Scriptures, Is this not the Words of the Christ, the Holy One of Israel, who became a flesh and blood mortal human in the Person of Jesus?



Actually, Romans 14 is about men who have "Yielded themselves" to God and their bodies as instruments of Righteousness to God who are new members of the Body, and weak in the Faith. (Belief) At least this is what Paul teaches. "Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations." ( doubtful debates or arguments)



It is my belief that a man should consider all of Paul's Teaching, knowing that he doesn't contradict himself.

Eph. 4: 1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you ( ask (someone) urgently and fervently to do something; implore; entreat)
that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, (Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.)

2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, "who is above all", and through all, and in you all.

So Paul is promoting this same Unity for those, both Jew and Gentile who have "Repented, Turned to God and are bringing forth Fruits Worthy of Repentance". These "Works" Paul is promoting, they wouldn't be the same "works" these same believers engaged in, "Wherein in time past they walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience", would they?

And didn't Paul teach, and strive himself, for the perfection that was in Christ Jesus?

Phil. 3: 12 Not as though I had already attained, "either were already perfect": but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God "in Christ Jesus".

15 Let us therefore, "as many as be perfect", be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

The implication of your religious philosophy, that Paul taught a different Gospel to the "Weak in Faith", than the Philippians or Colossians or Ephesians is from somewhere, but not from the Scriptures. And the implication of your post that the perfection that was in Christ Jesus, didn't include the Days His Father Esteemed above others, or His Fathers instruction to His Children concerning what is food and what is not, although popular in the religions of this world, simply do not reflect what is actually written in Scriptures.

But as Paul teaches, let each person be convinced in his own mind, who they should "Yield themselves" servants to obey.

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You have a wonderful ability to say a lot! So it sounds like you reject the new covenant. Then let’s press forward. Jesus didn’t bring a different law from Moses. He brought the fulfillment of the Mosiac Law. What is the Mosiac Law? It is a combination of the Moral, Civil, & Ceremonial Laws. Do you practice all three? Do you present the Lord with a burnt animal offering upon an alter for the forgiveness of your sins? Do you match your linens? Should you be put to death for missing the Sabbath? What about the other 613 commandments under the rabbinic system, do you observe those?

Freth said:

I was born and raised into Seventh-day Adventism. My mother, an Adventist, was divorced from my father and remarried. We ate clean meat and vegetarian dishes. When I went to visit my father every other weekend, his wife always had some pork item, usually pork chops. My mother would interrogate me when I got home. This would lead to arguments between my parents over the phone. Much like the discussions on this forum, they went back and forth on it with scripture, but nothing was ever resolved.

At age sixteen I moved in with my father and the unclean meat rule went out the window, as did Christianity. For thirty years (most of my adult life) I gorged myself on unclean meat. I was making up for lost time, I guess.

In 2016 I came back to Christianity, specifically Seventh-day Adventism.

I had tried for many years to wean myself off of meat, but with little success. My diabetes diagnosis in 2018 gave me the push I needed to be more serious about my diet, and so I kept trying new things until the vegetarian thing stuck. I found dishes I enjoyed, and had a lot of Adventist vegetarian recipes/heritage to fall back on.

I am now eating a mostly vegetarian diet. I do not eat pork, nor any other unclean meat.

Regarding what scripture says, I agree with the OP.

Hebrews 4 says that the handwriting of ordinances were against us. Dietary laws were never against us, they were for our health. The animals haven't changed (see Bob's post) since those dietary laws were given, so I don't think we can say that it is okay to eat unclean meat. The few verses that seem to say we can eat what we want are taken out of context, and this has been shown on the forums many times since I've been here. Also, I would point to the verses SabbathBlessings quoted concernig eating pork (et al; unclean meat); showing that God takes it seriously.

It is my personal belief, based on scripture, that in the least we should be eating clean meat, but that the best possible diet is a vegetarian one. (Also, statistics from Blue Zones prove that to be true.) It is my personal experience that I am much healthier now than I have been in decades, because of my vegetarian diet. I recently had a colonoscopy and they found no issues, which I consider to be a miracle of epic proportions, but I have been eating vegetarian for many years now.

A whole other argument could be made, and often is on this forum, concerning how our bodies are not our own, and are temples for the Holy Spirit.

Click to expand...

“Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10‬:‭15‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

God cleansed all food.

“I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to the one who thinks something is unclean, to that person it is unclean.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14‬:‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

So to you there are unclean meats to others all is now clean.

“And He *said to them, “Are you so lacking in understanding as well? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the person from outside cannot defile him, because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?” (Thereby He declared all foods clean.)”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7‬:‭18‬-‭19‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Jesus declared all foods clean.

iHarken said:

You have a wonderful ability to say a lot! So it sounds like you reject the new covenant.

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I don't reject God's New Covenant, as defined by Him. If you go to the actual "Word of God", you will find God defining for anyone seeking to know Him, what HIS New Covenant is. If you were seeking God's Truth, and went there in search of God's Truth, you would find God's New Covenant changed 2 things.

#1. The Manner in which God's Laws are administered.

#2. The Manner in which Sins are forgiven.

This isn't what is taught by this world's religions that "Come in Christ's Name" that Jesus warned about. But as you will find for yourself if you were to "Seek the Righteousness of God", there is nothing about the abolition of God's Laws. Only a change in the Priesthood Law. As it is written;

Heb. 7: 11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. 13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses "spake nothing concerning priesthood". 15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

All this is in you own Bible, but you must seek God's Truth from your own heart.

iHarken said:

Then let’s press forward. Jesus didn’t bring a different law from Moses. He brought the fulfillment of the Mosiac Law.

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I appreciate that you have been taught by this world's religions, we have all been influenced by them since before Abraham.

But here is what the Jesus "of the Bible" actually said;

Matt. 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, (of Moses) or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Destroy and fulfill are the exact opposite of each other, as Jesus defines for those who would believe in Him.

18 For verily "I say unto you", Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, "till all be fulfilled".

Please consider a few undeniable Truths of our existence.

#1. The Same Heaven and the Same Earth that existed when Jesus Spoke these Words, are the Same Heaven and the same earth that both you and I have been placed in by God. This is not even debatable, as it is an undeniable Truth that has been and can be Proven without any reasonable doubt.

#2. Jesus has not yet returned to raise the Dead as HE promised, and separate the wheat from the tares. I can show you His Promise, if you don't know where it is. But this is another undeniable, undebatable Truth. So one of the most important Prophesies given to us about the Christ, and His Own Promise to us, that if HE doesn't return, all of our Faith's are in vain, has NOT YET BEEN FULFILLED. Therefore, as Jesus said, the "Mosaic Law", as your adopted religion has taught you to call it, has not Passed. Not one jot or one tittle.

So Jesus came to Fulfill all these Prophesies about Himself, and it is my my Hope and Faith that HE Will Fulfill them, as HE promised HE came to do. Perhaps while I am still alive, or after I am dead and buried. But one thing is for absolutely sure, He has not yet Fulfilled "All things".

And to confirm His Promise, He continued.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever "shall do and teach them", the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Most men I have met, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, don't really believe any of these things. He talks about them in Matt. 7:21-23, should you be interested.

iHarken said:

What is the Mosiac Law? It is a combination of the Moral, Civil, & Ceremonial Laws. Do you practice all three? Do you present the Lord with a burnt animal offering upon an alter for the forgiveness of your sins?

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If I was under the Old Priesthood Covenant, I would. But to bring animals to a Levite Priest, and KILL it, after the Prophesied Priest, "After the Order of Melchizedek" has come, would be in direct disobedience to the Law of Moses.

Duet. 18: 17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever "will not hearken" unto my words" which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

And God Promised a New Priesthood Covenant, where "HE" Himself "for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more".

So if I continued "practicing" the works of the Law of an Old Priesthood Covenant, "After the Order of Aaron", that was only put in place, "Till the Priest, "After the Order of Melchizedek" should come, I would be in direct disobedience to the "Mosaic Law".

You can find all this information in your own Bible, should you choose to "Seek the Righteousness of God", as Jesus promotes. As HE told us in the Holy scriptures over and over again;

1 Sam. 15: 22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. 23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

You are big on preaching, and asking questions, but you refuse to even acknowledge Scriptures I post, nor do you even attempt to answer the questions I asked. What spirit would prompt a man to treat someone like this. Nevertheless, I will ask it again concerning the Holy Inspired Words of God above. " In your understanding of Scriptures, Is this not the Words of the Christ, the Holy One of Israel, through Samuel? The Same Christ who became a flesh and blood mortal human in the Person of Jesus?

Isn't it just a common decency to answer questions when someone asks you?

iHarken said:

Do you match your linens? Should you be put to death for missing the Sabbath?

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You are free to mock God and His Laws that you seem to have no respect for, nor any desire to understand what they mean, or why God had them written "For our sakes, no doubt". I will not partake with you in your mockery, nor will I share with you the Holy purpose of these Instruction in righteousness, as I am instructed not to.

The wages of sin is death. You want to mock God concerning these things, you are free to do so. But I want no part of it.

iHarken said:

What about the other 613 commandments under the rabbinic system, do you observe those?

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This is another of many insidious lies that are created and promoted by this world's religions. The false preaching that God placed on the necks of men who trusted Him, "613" Laws impossible to obey, is a wicked judgment against God and a flat out falsehood. You didn't learn any of this evil wickedness from anything written in the Holy Scriptures. There is not ONE Example in the Entire bible, including His Own Son, Where God placed on the necks of Any Man, 613 Laws. These evil deceivers who created this falsehood, uses a nasty, deceitful tactics to justify their hatred for God and their wicked judgments against God,

For instance, there is a Law that states, (Lev. 18) "None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD."

This is one Law. Then God goes on to define what "Kin" means. The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

This goes on as God defines "Kin" for awhile. But the deceivers count each definition of Kin, as a separate Law. So by using this evil deception, they turn one Law, into 20. This is done several times in the deceptive doctrine. It would be the same as having 1 a speed limit, "55mph". Then saying, thou shall not drive 60, thou shall not drive 65, though shall not drive 70, though shall not drive 75, that shall not drive 80, thou shall not drive 85, then preaching to the world that there a 7 Speed limit Laws on the road.

This deception is especially hated by me because of the wickedness and judgments against God it has promoted. It is no true, God has never placed on the necks of even ONE person who trusted Him, 613 Laws. For your own sake, I hope you will stop promoting this insidious and wicked judgment against God. What if someone hears you, and believes this crap. Do you want that on your head?

If I were you I would recant and repent as fast as you can, and stop promoting such foolishness. But each man must be fully convinced in his own mind

I have tried to have a discussion with you, I have asked you questions, posted scriptures for your examination etc., but there is no real discussion.

Time for me to move on.

Studyman said:

This is another of many insidious lies that are created and promoted by this world's religions. The false preaching that God placed on the necks of men who trusted Him, "613" Laws impossible to obey, is a wicked judgment against God and a flat out falsehood. You didn't learn any of this evil wickedness from anything written in the Holy Scriptures. There is not ONE Example in the Entire bible, including His Own Son, Where God placed on the necks of Any Man, 613 Laws. These evil deceivers who created this falsehood, uses a nasty, deceitful tactics to justify their hatred for God and their wicked judgments against God,

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So in your estimation how many laws are there? A long time ago I even posted for you a Jewish website that listed all 613 commandments with their respective verses.

Studyman said:

I don't reject God's New Covenant, as defined by Him. If you go to the actual "Word of God", you will find God defining for anyone seeking to know Him, what HIS New Covenant is. If you were seeking God's Truth, and went there in search of God's Truth, you would find God's New Covenant changed 2 things.

#1. The Manner in which God's Laws are administered.

#2. The Manner in which Sins are forgiven.

This isn't what is taught by this world's religions that "Come in Christ's Name" that Jesus warned about. But as you will find for yourself if you were to "Seek the Righteousness of God", there is nothing about the abolition of God's Laws. Only a change in the Priesthood Law. As it is written;

Heb. 7: 11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. 13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses "spake nothing concerning priesthood". 15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

All this is in you own Bible, but you must seek God's Truth from your own heart.




I appreciate that you have been taught by this world's religions, we have all been influenced by them since before Abraham.

But here is what the Jesus "of the Bible" actually said;

Matt. 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, (of Moses) or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Destroy and fulfill are the exact opposite of each other, as Jesus defines for those who would believe in Him.

18 For verily "I say unto you", Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, "till all be fulfilled".

Please consider a few undeniable Truths of our existence.

#1. The Same Heaven and the Same Earth that existed when Jesus Spoke these Words, are the Same Heaven and the same earth that both you and I have been placed in by God. This is not even debatable, as it is an undeniable Truth that has been and can be Proven without any reasonable doubt.

#2. Jesus has not yet returned to raise the Dead as HE promised, and separate the wheat from the tares. I can show you His Promise, if you don't know where it is. But this is another undeniable, undebatable Truth. So one of the most important Prophesies given to us about the Christ, and His Own Promise to us, that if HE doesn't return, all of our Faith's are in vain, has NOT YET BEEN FULFILLED. Therefore, as Jesus said, the "Mosaic Law", as your adopted religion has taught you to call it, has not Passed. Not one jot or one tittle.

So Jesus came to Fulfill all these Prophesies about Himself, and it is my my Hope and Faith that HE Will Fulfill them, as HE promised HE came to do. Perhaps while I am still alive, or after I am dead and buried. But one thing is for absolutely sure, He has not yet Fulfilled "All things".

And to confirm His Promise, He continued.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever "shall do and teach them", the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Most men I have met, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, don't really believe any of these things. He talks about them in Matt. 7:21-23, should you be interested.



If I was under the Old Priesthood Covenant, I would. But to bring animals to a Levite Priest, and KILL it, after the Prophesied Priest, "After the Order of Melchizedek" has come, would be in direct disobedience to the Law of Moses.

Duet. 18: 17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever "will not hearken" unto my words" which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

And God Promised a New Priesthood Covenant, where "HE" Himself "for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more".

So if I continued "practicing" the works of the Law of an Old Priesthood Covenant, "After the Order of Aaron", that was only put in place, "Till the Priest, "After the Order of Melchizedek" should come, I would be in direct disobedience to the "Mosaic Law".

You can find all this information in your own Bible, should you choose to "Seek the Righteousness of God", as Jesus promotes. As HE told us in the Holy scriptures over and over again;

1 Sam. 15: 22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. 23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

You are big on preaching, and asking questions, but you refuse to even acknowledge Scriptures I post, nor do you even attempt to answer the questions I asked. What spirit would prompt a man to treat someone like this. Nevertheless, I will ask it again concerning the Holy Inspired Words of God above. " In your understanding of Scriptures, Is this not the Words of the Christ, the Holy One of Israel, through Samuel? The Same Christ who became a flesh and blood mortal human in the Person of Jesus?

Isn't it just a common decency to answer questions when someone asks you?


You are free to mock God and His Laws that you seem to have no respect for, nor any desire to understand what they mean, or why God had them written "For our sakes, no doubt". I will not partake with you in your mockery, nor will I share with you the Holy purpose of these Instruction in righteousness, as I am instructed not to.

The wages of sin is death. You want to mock God concerning these things, you are free to do so. But I want no part of it.



This is another of many insidious lies that are created and promoted by this world's religions. The false preaching that God placed on the necks of men who trusted Him, "613" Laws impossible to obey, is a wicked judgment against God and a flat out falsehood. You didn't learn any of this evil wickedness from anything written in the Holy Scriptures. There is not ONE Example in the Entire bible, including His Own Son, Where God placed on the necks of Any Man, 613 Laws. These evil deceivers who created this falsehood, uses a nasty, deceitful tactics to justify their hatred for God and their wicked judgments against God,

For instance, there is a Law that states, (Lev. 18) "None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD."

This is one Law. Then God goes on to define what "Kin" means. The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

This goes on as God defines "Kin" for awhile. But the deceivers count each definition of Kin, as a separate Law. So by using this evil deception, they turn one Law, into 20. This is done several times in the deceptive doctrine. It would be the same as having 1 a speed limit, "55mph". Then saying, thou shall not drive 60, thou shall not drive 65, though shall not drive 70, though shall not drive 75, that shall not drive 80, thou shall not drive 85, then preaching to the world that there a 7 Speed limit Laws on the road.

This deception is especially hated by me because of the wickedness and judgments against God it has promoted. It is no true, God has never placed on the necks of even ONE person who trusted Him, 613 Laws. For your own sake, I hope you will stop promoting this insidious and wicked judgment against God. What if someone hears you, and believes this crap. Do you want that on your head?

If I were you I would recant and repent as fast as you can, and stop promoting such foolishness. But each man must be fully convinced in his own mind

I have tried to have a discussion with you, I have asked you questions, posted scriptures for your examination etc., but there is no real discussion.

Time for me to move on.

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You do reject the new covenant. The fact that you had to make a special remark clarifying a distinction in definition is evidence of your posture. There is no good faith. You reject the Mosiac Law. You reject the rabbinic system. You reject “religion”. You are correct - it is time for you to move on because you reject everything but your own understanding.

I will apologize for one thing, I do not answer questions that I view as distracting from the main thought, & you get very distracted. So I ignored a lot of your questions. I am more concerned about the fundamentals because if we can’t get those right, then all your other mistakes will have to be forgiven. Like when you said Jesus was murdered or that repentance is a work - forgivable misunderstandings.

But you’ll have to forgive me because there are even weirder anomalies in your speech like when you tell me, ‘Go to the actual “Word of God”’ or ‘Jesus “of the Bible”’. Why are you quoting those words as if there’s more to interpret? There is only one Jesus. All throughout your writing there’s this underlying insinuation of special revelation which I do not trust like when you said, “And HE did teach me that,” or “I appreciate that you have been taught by this world’s religions,”. This just compounds with the fact that you COMPLETELY mischaracterized my questions & my background. Then proceeded to tell me that I need to repent of something that I don’t even preach or practice…

Regardless, I do love you, I am not upset with you. Once this is all said & done I do believe that Gods’ grace is sufficient because only one of us can be right. I do not speak from my own authority but that which is of my Fathers. In any regard - may the Lord bless you & may your fruit grow.

Xeno.of.athens said:

No, it does not mention pork. It would be an argument from silence to contend that it does.

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Paul does rebuke those who judge others for eating pork or any food of their choice.