Did Jesus save us from God?

Der Alte said:

Wrong application of scripture. Those that God destroyed in the flood and Sodom and Gomorrah were NOT captives. They were destroyed.

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Matt10:15 “it will be more bearable for the region of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgement than for that town” how can it be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgement if they were destroyed? Sounds like Jesus was saying they will be around for the judgement day to me. Unless he was talking about their ashes being more bearable but that doesn’t make sense.

Yes, "Christ saved us from God". But God wanted this to happen at the right time. It's not like God was actually angry.

IoanC said:

Yes, "Christ saved us from God". But God wanted this to happen at the right time. It's not like God was actually angry.

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If Jesus is one with the Father then that statement makes no sense. How could God save himself from himself?

Jeff Saunders said:

If Jesus is one with the Father then that statement makes no sense. How could God save himself from himself?

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The Son is God and one with The Father. But The Son is not the same as The Father. The Son does the will of the Father perfectly, but Only The Father is The Will. So we cannot go straight to the Father except through The Son and in The Holy Spirit.

Jeff Saunders said:

If Jesus is one with the Father then that statement makes no sense. How could God save himself from himself?

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Since the Father and Jesus are one with each other, THE SAME as Jesus prayed the Father that His disciples at the time, and the disciples later, would be ONE with the Father and ONE with Jesus,
it
looks like a problem for you.

IoanC said:

The Son is God and one with The Father. But The Son is not the same as The Father. The Son does the will of the Father perfectly, but Only The Father is The Will. So we cannot go straight to the Father except through The Son and in The Holy Spirit.

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That I agree with you

IoanC said:

Yes, "Christ saved us from God". But God wanted this to happen at the right time. It's not like God was actually angry.

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Actually, God is storing up the most terrible horrible horrendous wrath soon to be released on the wicked on earth, according to all His Word.

IoanC said:

The Son does the will of the Father perfectly, but Only The Father is The Will.

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Where do you get this? The Son does not have a will?!

IoanC said:

So we cannot go straight to the Father except through The Son and in The Holy Spirit.

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How can you say this when the Lord taught his disciples to pray directly to the Father?

God cares and is forgiving, the way is still narrow, that God provides for, for being saved from the justice from God, through Christ who has borne it enough for us. God has wanted to forgive us but justice needs to come, God will not look on sin to let sin pass.

The wrath of God will be according to God's fair justice. No one should really be in rebellion to God's will. God will be fair about it, which is what justice is.

The will of Christ and the will of God's Spirit are willingly aligned to God's will.

John 14:14, "Whatever you ask in my name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it."

Christ and the Father are the same Being, with the Spirit, while Christ is the incarnation, as the Son of God, as the angel spoke in Luke 1:32, while preexistent as Logos the Word with God who is God. So while there is a will of each it is the will of the heavenly Father which is dominant and with agreement with the Son and the Spirit, with each of whom having their distinct office, which we might tell with how they are portrayed in the Bible. What was accomplished from the Son enables any of us to come to the heavenly Father.

Andrewn said:

Where do you get this? The Son does not have a will?!


How can you say this when the Lord taught his disciples to pray directly to the Father?

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Actually according to the Second Council of Constantinople, Christ has two wills, a human will and a divine will - rejection of this is Monothelitism, and it was because of his defense of the Orthodox view of two wills in harmony with each other that St. Maximos the Confessor had his tongue cut off in Constantinople and died six days later, meanwhile a supporter of the idea of Monothelitism, Honorius I, became the only Roman Pope to be anathematized by an ecumenical council accepted by the Roman Catholic Church (his status at the only anathematized Pope led to spurious grimoires being psuedepigraphically attributed to him by Renaissance printers of the sensationalist variety.

Monothelitism it was hoped would reconcile the Oriental Orthodox to the Chalcedonians, but it didn’t, for Oriental Orthodoxy is not Monothelite but rather is characterized by precise adherence to the terminology used by St. Cyril in his struggle against Nestorius and Nestorianism, and psuedo-Apollinarian theologies such as Monothelitism do not appeal to the OO, but some groups are believed to have left the OO over this issue, most notably it is theorized by many that the Maronites are speculated to have embraced Monothelitism and then joined the Roman Catholic Church unaware that Honorius I had been deposed and also influenced by the High Petrology of the Syriac Orthodox Church (which they separated from) but the bishops of both churches are styled Patriarch of Antioch, and in the Syriac Orthodox Church this was true until some time after the rise of Islam the actual headquarters of the Patriarchate moved to Tur Abdin, and then after the genocide in 1915, to Damascus, where it remains. However the Syriac Orthodox do not accept Papal Supremacy and only venerate some pre-Chalcedonian Popes, mainly martyrs like St. Sixtus and St. Julian, and possibly the post-Chalcedonian St. Gregory the Great to a limited extent as he is widely popular among Eastern Christians generally, like St. John of Damascus, also Chalcedonian, or St. Isaac the Syrian of the Church of the East, or St. Theodora the wife of St. Justinian, who was Syriac Orthodox.

These kind of separate understandings do not make violence or killing justified. Any of that should never have happened. But Christ Jesus was not showing two separate wills and it does not make sense that he would have experienced two distinct wills. He came as the incarnation of God, and in a human body with human limitation instead of the unlimited existence he could experience while yet having access to any knowledge from that, he experienced his body's physical nature. That nature does not have its own will, still. And he kept his will over his body's physical nature, without sinfulness in it, to remain without sin, with being subject to the heavenly Father through this, who is the same being, God.

Servus said:

"Did Jesus save us from God?" seems to be a common question/saying among those who believe in universal salvation.

But Romans 5:9 seems to indicate that's exactly what happened:

"Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him"

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Jesus satisfied/finished the wrath of God in the OT/God the Spirit, how he did that for God the Spirit you can all speculate/argue amongst yourselves I guess, but the right to wrath has now become Jesus's when he comes back, and the only way to be saved/spared from that is to be a true follower of his/truly walk in his ways/way, because there is/are some he is going to be wrathful with when he comes back. It talks about that a little bit in Revelation. People trying to hide from the wrath of the lamb, asking the mountains to cover them/hide them (they'll try to escape by going into deep caves/bunkers, etc) (but there will be no way to hide from him/escape from him, or his wrath at them/over them at that time, etc).

God Bless.

Servus said:

"Did Jesus save us from God?" seems to be a common question/saying among those who believe in universal salvation.

But Romans 5:9 seems to indicate that's exactly what happened:

"Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him"

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I do not know where you are getting your information from, I am one who believes in Christian Universal Redemption and have been for about 6 years now and have read many books on the subject and not once have I ever heard that idea, that Jesus came to save us from God.
That is a Roman Western way of reading Scripture, not the reading of the early Church which is where the Christian Universal Redemption comes from.
You are talking about penal substitution which is God had all this wrath that He needed to take out on his creation because we sinned, Jesus got in-between us and God, God takes his wrath out on Jesus and as long as we are covered by Jesus we skip the wrath, we believe in Christus Victus, man had been infected with sin, sin distorted our view of God and we felt as if we were separated from God, some are trying to find the way back, creating thousands of denominations all thinking they found the way back, but most do not care. The Father loves his creation and will stop at nothing to save it from ruin, Jesus becomes human and takes on flesh, living a sinless life and then allowing humanity to kill him. The human killing of Jesus became our salvation, God was in Jesus reconciling the cosmos to himself, not counting mens trespasses against them-2 Cor 5:19.
2 Tim 1:9 "( Jesus) Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our observances, but according to his own purpose and grace, which is given to us in the Anointed One Jesus from before the times of the ages."
The Trinity work in unison, as they always have and will do, to save us from our sin and restore us back to what we were created for, there is no separation in the Trinity, at no time was the Trinity divided.
This is what every Christian Universal Salvation/ Redemption, person that I have read believe, there is diversity in the camp but it is on other issues.