Real hatred towards certain people is not wrong (proof from the Bible)

Larniavc said:

Proverbs 6:16-19 KJV (King James Version)​

These six things doth the LORD hate: Yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, Feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, And he that soweth discord among brethren.

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They are all actions that God is described as hating.

What is the meaning of "hate" as used in the Old Testament?


So in this context, "hate" means to not show affection, although despite not desiring Leah, Jacob still managed to sire 4 sons by her.

What I quoted was Matthew 5:43-45

You don’t recognize Scripture…and very sadly don’t understand it yet, you use it to put forth hate. Study up

BibleBeliever1611 said:

Too often people talk about the idea that all people should be accepted and loved and that hatred is bad. This is completely wrong when we take scripture into consideration.

Psalms 139:21 says, "Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?"

What we can see from this specific scripture is that the guy is asking God, "do not I hate them..." like asking for validation that he's doing something right. Hatred is a good thing and if you have absolutely no hatred towards anyone, you are not certainly walking in the Spirit and you're not following the Bible.

Further on verse 22 the passage continues, "I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies."

Now in this verse hatred described here is even deeper than just any normal hatred or negative emotion. With "perfect hatred" he is saying that the people that he hates deserve no love.

From this scripture we can see how serious it is when people are haters or enemies of God. They should not be treated with love, patience, longsuffering, none of that. Sometimes people literally deserve no love and this is proven by scripture. The more you think about this the more you would realize that you should start hating people more and not be like a Pontius Pilate who want's to be on everyone's side. Even from a human perspective, you could conclude that hatred in and of itself should not be bad if God gave people emotions, hatred being one of them. God would not create something bad that shouldn't exist.

So what people would fall into this category of people that deserve no love? The enemies of God. The LGBTQ people for certain. The false prophets. The atheists, at least most of them. The list could continue.

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I'm pretty confident that the poster here isn't going to listen to anything I have to say. So I'll instead address everyone else reading this thread.

I'd like to share what is considered an important principle of biblical hermeneutics. The principle known as Description vs Prescription.

This is, broadly speaking, understood to be a pretty common sense approach to reading the Bible. After all, we read--for example--of Pharaoh giving the order to have all the male children of the Hebrew slaves in Egypt put to death. This is the event that, in the story of the Exodus, leads to Moses being placed in a basket and into the river to spare his life--leading to him being discovered by the Egyptian princess and raised in the court.

Without a descriptive vs prescriptive principle, then we could conclude that because the text speaks of the murder of babies, that the Bible is giving a prescriptive statement: go and kill babies. That, of course, is a wildly stupid way to read and understand what is being said in the text. The text, very clearly, presents Pharoah as the villain of the story and the murder of the Hebrew children as a very bad thing done by a tyrant who is keeping the Hebrew people enslaved and oppressed. Moses' escape from this murder, his survival, ultimately leads to a place in the story where he stumbles upon a bush that burns without being consumed, where he has an encounter with God and becomes the redeemer of the Hebrew slaves. Which, if one is paying attention to the text and the story--is a pretty big deal.

Now in the example I gave above, the principle is pretty obvious--it doesn't take a biblical scholar to recognize that one isn't supposed to imitate the villain of a story. For the same reason it doesn't take a degree in media literacy to recognize that Emperor Palpatine is the bad guy in the Star Wars movies.

Sometimes it can be more difficult. So, here for example, in Psalm 139 the Psalmist speaks of God's faithfulness and love for the Psalmist, about how God knows the Psalmist, because God created him, and the Psalmist cannot escape God because God is everywhere--even if the Psalmist were to try to escape, in death, to the deepest depths of death (She'ol, sometimes translated as "hell" in English Bibles), God is still present there. The Psalmist, in two lines, expresses his devotion to God by saying that he hates those who hate God.

How ought one respond to Psalm 139:21-22? Well first we should understand, as a matter of chief importance, that these are the words of the Psalmist: These are the sincere words of someone writing a song/poem (a psalm). Is the reader to understand these words as prescriptive? That since the Psalmist says he hates certain people, then those who read these words are to imitate this and also engage in hate?

Let's notice here that there is no explicit prescription given--there is nothing in the text to direct the reader to also hate anyone. So there exists no explicit prescription. It is purely descriptive. We know what the Psalmist feels, but we know nothing about how we ought to feel.

In order to know how we ought to feel, or how we ought to regard other people, how to treat them (etc) it may instead be far more beneficial (if we consider the Bible authoritative in some way) to see those texts which do give explicit prescription.

For the Christian, the Chief Commandment is given by Christ who quotes Deuteronomy and Leviticus saying "Love the Lord your God... and love your neighbor as yourself" and upon these two commandments hangs the Law and the Prophets. After saying this, someone asks Jesus, "Who is my neighbor?" and Jesus responds by telling the Parable of the Good Samaritan. In the story a man is on the road and attacked, beaten almost to the point of death. Two "righteous" men end up seeing the man in such a terrible condition and do nothing. Then a Samaritan, whom the initial hearers of the story would regard as an "other", a social outcast, who shows compassion and acts righteous--taking the beaten man to an inn and pays for his stay and recovery. The Samaritan is who the listener is supposed to imitate, so Jesus says, "Go and do likewise".
Who is my neighbor? Well it's whoever I encounter in life's journey.

Does it matter if the person I meet is like me in anyway? No. If you see someone who needs help, you help them. End of debate.

For the Christian, there are some top priority statements about how we are to conduct ourselves as disciples of Jesus. In the Gospel of Matthew this is found in what is called the Sermon on the Mount; in Luke's Gospel the parallel account is called the Sermon on he Plain. In this Sermon Jesus teaches, explicitly and with perfect clarity, that to do justice means not only loving those who love you, but loving the ones who hate you--that is, "love your enemy". Jesus asks rhetorically, "What benefit is it if you only love those who also love you? Don't even sinners do this?" That is, everyone loves people who love them, this isn't hard to do, it's very easy to love those who already love you. But what is hard is to love those who hate you, to be kind to those who despise you, to bless when you are cursed, to be merciful when you are not shown mercy. This is credit to you when you do it because this is acting justly even in the face of injustice. This is how one imitates God, "Be merciful, even as God is merciful, for He is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked" (Matthew's version says, "Be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect")

Jesus in speaking of God's mercy, echoes the Prophet Ezekiel, "Do I rejoice in the death of the wicked? Says God, Do I not rather he repent and live?" And there is also the Prophet Micah who said, "He has told you, O mortal, what is good; and what does YHWH demand of you? But to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God."

Jesus is not departing from the moral framework of the Law and the Prophets, but emphasizing it: God is a God who forgives, who shows mercy, who acts with kindness even toward the worst of the worst. In the same way, those who claim to love God ought to do as God does: be kind, be just, love and forgive and show mercy toward all--even the worst of the worst.

St. Paul will, in his Epistle to the Romans, call back to Jesus' words here, when giving instruction for how Christians ought to conduct themselves. To seek to outdo one another in showing honor--doing what is right in the sight of all. In refusing to repay evil with evil, but instead to respond to evil with good. So one is to love the one who hates you, if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if your enemy is thirsty, give him drink. Because Judgment belongs to God--not to you and me. When someone hates us and we are kind, it will be as though coals are heaped upon his head--knowing the shame of his hate when he receives love, so that on the Last Day when all must stand and be judged, the one who acted with evil will not be taken by surprise. But also, in loving rather than hating the one who hates us, it can be a profound moment of redemptive change in the heart of one's enemy--so that he is no longer enemy, but a potential friend and brother.

We have some pretty clear instruction about how we ought to live, how we ought to be, how to conduct ourselves toward others (including those who resent us, hate us, and even wish to harm us). And the one thing that is not permissible in all of this, is hate.

So this leads to an important question: When we are reading these ancient and sacred texts, what is our guiding principle? Do we take descriptive statements where we read of a sinful person having sinful thoughts and take that as how we ought to live? Or do we take the clear instructive and prescriptive teachings, such as loving our enemy, especially when it is spoken by the One Christians confess to be the Incarnate Deity Himself, to be the regulative principle of moral, ethical, and righteous conduct?

In short, it requires a mighty dose of biblical illiteracy to read Psalm 139:21-22 and conclude we should hate people. So much so that one must wonder if this is, in fact, a very clear example of mining the Bible to find quotable justifications for one's own dark and evil impulses.

BibleBeliever1611 said:

Now in this verse hatred described here is even deeper than just any normal hatred or negative emotion. With "perfect hatred" he is saying that the people that he hates deserve no love.

From this scripture we can see how serious it is when people are haters or enemies of God. They should not be treated with love, patience, longsuffering, none of that. Sometimes people literally deserve no love and this is proven by scripture. The more you think about this the more you would realize that you should start hating people more and not be like a Pontius Pilate who want's to be on everyone's side. Even from a human perspective, you could conclude that hatred in and of itself should not be bad if God gave people emotions, hatred being one of them. God would not create something bad that shouldn't exist.

So what people would fall into this category of people that deserve no love? The enemies of God. The LGBTQ people for certain. The false prophets. The atheists, at least most of them. The list could continue.

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So, thinking about Christ’s anger. Let’s see. Of course there’s the money changers.

John 2:14-17 “In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers at their business. And making a whip of cords, he drove them all, with the sheep and oxen, out of the temple; and he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. And he told those who sold the pigeons, "Take these things away; you shall not make my Father's house a house of trade." His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for thy house will consume me."

Wow. Pretty hot under the collar there, wouldn’t you say? And what about. Oh, yeah. “Business” “Trade”. Read it. It’s right there. That’s what made Him angry. Today we worship capitalism. We love our politicians who help billionaires get richer and richer. And all those Faith Influencers that we admire so much because they make us feel good about not liking what we don’t like. Of course they need lots of our money too. Consuming zeal. Let’s see. What other consuming zeals did Jesus have? Oh yes, Jesus the King in the end times.

Matthew 25:34-41 Then the King will say to those at his right hand, `Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' And the King will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.' Then he will say to those at his left hand, `Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels"

Imagine that. Jesus the king saying "Go to Hell you cursed people!". ('eternal fire' vs 46). Yikes! And for what? Hmm mistreating His brethren. Are we sure we know who his brethren are? Given the people that Jesus associated with during His time on earth, we might be wise to be more thoughtful about our eagerness to condemn certain sexual identities and relations that we consider so perverted? Maybe? Or those poor that we think are so shiftless? Or those single mothers living in poverty that we think are so immoral. Or those immigrants that we think are so dangerously criminal? I suppose it's true that Jesus did get riled up sometimes. But I suppose it's also true that we don't like to think about that which made Him truly angry.

Angry about capitalism????? No, the point is they were robbers and in His Father’s house of which he saya, it is written my Father’s house shall be a place of prayer. (Not shady commerce.)

throughfierytrial said:

Angry about capitalism????? No, the point is they were robbers and in His Father’s house of which he saya, it is written my Father’s house shall be a place of prayer. (Not shady commerce.)

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Could be. That's the way it's usually read. But quite convenient. Overlooks the fact that this was a legitimate business. And perhaps He was more offended that even within the temple there were those who sought profit from those unable to refuse. So I don't think it's a stretch to imagine He was angry that any excuse to suck money out of people was OK. It's not the only time He has condemned the allure of money. So, don't get me wrong. I'm not against capitalism. I am against the exploitation of capitalism by the collusion of politicians and billionaires matched with the naivety and indifference of those who ignore it...as long as the church is never taxed.

Maine Progressive said:

Could be. That's the way it's usually read. But quite convenient. Overlooks the fact that this was a legitimate business. And perhaps He was more offended that even within the temple there were those who sought profit from those unable to refuse. So I don't think it's a stretch to imagine He was angry that any excuse to suck money out of people was OK. It's not the only time He has condemned the allure of money. So, don't get me wrong. I'm not against capitalism. I am against the exploitation of capitalism by the collusion of politicians and billionaires matched with the naivety and indifference of those who ignore it...as long as the church is never taxed.

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Well, sounds like you have some real grudges! I’m sorry you see things that way and things may improve…may God grant us peaceful lives and our daily bread. May God grant this in your life as well brother.

BibleBeliever1611 said:

I have a Bible verse to back myself up, you don't. How about that? Psalm 139 is super clear. It's actually quite mind blowing how many people just want to deny clear scripture. The more I read these replies the more I realize people forgot that Psalm 139 was in the Bible. Or just didn't know about it.

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Good grief. You're taking a songbook and treating it as if it's Mosaic law. Or as if David had the same understanding of God's will as Jesus did. David was simply a very flawed human being, and not someone that we should be taking spiritual guidance from. Every word that he wrote isn't divine writ, and wasn't meant as a guidebook on how we should pray or how we should live. For those things we look to Christ, and in Him we see just how misguided David really was.

David was just a human being, no better than you or I, and yet you want us to look to him over Christ for our spiritual guidance.

Love one another, pray for those who persecute you.....

throughfierytrial said:

Well, sounds like you have some real grudges! I’m sorry you see things that way and things may improve…may God grant us peaceful lives and our daily bread. May God grant this in your life as well brother.

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Thanks for the good wishes. I do get cranky sometimes...perhaps more often than excusable. None the less it does distress me that I often see modern Christians opposing the very people Jesus would defend and defending the very people Jesus would condemn. Still, to the extent that I've been unnecessarily accusatory, I apologize.
I should add that many Christians are, as you say, 'peaceful lives' with 'daily bread'. Sort of 'You and me, God. You and me.' I do respect that. But I feel greater kinship with the Christians who can look beyond that. Whose heart is pained by the suffering they see outside of 'You and me.' Whose spirit drives them to call for justice and charity.

BibleBeliever1611 said:

You literally just twisted what the scripture says, you realize that? He says "Do not I hate them oh Lord that hate thee." Is that not talking about people? Hatred towards particular people is definitely taught in scripture. It's hard to believe that you genuinely disagree with such a clear scripture, I guess you just don't like what it says so you try to twist it.

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I did not twist anything. You are the one justifying hate against groups of people you don’t like and justifying it with scripture. Shame on you.

Again, pray the last two verses of psalm 139 because there is hurtful ways in you.

“¶Search me, God, and know my heart; Put me to the test and know my anxious thoughts; And see if there is any hurtful way in me, And lead me in the everlasting way.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭139‬:‭23‬-‭24‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

“Bless those who persecute you. Don’t curse them; pray that God will bless them.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12‬:‭14‬ ‭NLT‬‬

BibleBeliever1611 said:

I've actually felt quilty because I don't have enough hatred. Many times I've thought that I should hate more because that's just biblical. I've heard a pastor preach that if you don't have hatred then you have a problem with God, and I'd say amen to that. You don't have to believe like this, but in that case don't call yourself a Christian. I don't know about you but I just believe whatever the Bible says and that's what it says in Psalm 139.

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You need to get out of whatever fundamentalist “sect” you are in. I am a professed and devout Christian and believe that hate has no room in Christianity. In fact hate is a block against preaching the gospel and making disciples. You are hindering God’s work.

““You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may prove yourselves to be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Even the tax collectors, do they not do the same?”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5‬:‭43‬-‭46‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

BibleBeliever1611 said:

Now you're just putting words into my mouth. I never said you should hate all enemies. I just believe whatever the Bible says and if you don't then I wonder why you would call yourself a Christian in the first place or go to a Christian forum since this book called the Bible is the central book of the religion of Christianity.

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Your interpretation of one verse in a Psalm is completely contrary to the Gospel preached by Christ, therefore your interpretation is false.

BibleBeliever1611 said:

I've actually felt quilty because I don't have enough hatred. Many times I've thought that I should hate more because that's just biblical. I've heard a pastor preach that if you don't have hatred then you have a problem with God, and I'd say amen to that. You don't have to believe like this, but in that case don't call yourself a Christian. I don't know about you but I just believe whatever the Bible says and that's what it says in Psalm 139.


Like I said I don't necessarily start by hating people and then try and find justifications for it. Many times I find myself hating too little, and then when I read Psalm 139 I even feel quilty that I don't have as much hatred towards the enemies of God as I should.

Psalm 139 is so clear that it feels weird if you could read it differently. He clearly says he has "perfect hatred." How much more clear do you need it to be?

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The one who knows all can rightfully and justifiably hate, if that one so chooses to, because they know all, and everything, and I do mean "everything" (now I don't think that one does, but that's a different subject/issue for another time) but we can't rightfully or justifiably hate in the same way that the one who knows all might justifiably choose to, because we don't know all and literally everything, and it takes that level of knowledge to be able do it 100% justifiably, etc.

Anyway, so that pastor is wrong if he said that, and you should probably stop listening to him, sorry.

Love is the general rule for us due to our limited understanding, etc.

People who don't come to understand this in their christian walk at some point, will probably be judged the way they are judging, or possibly from a perspective of limited understanding maybe, etc, maybe if they still choose to walk in pride, and still refuse to fall upon the mercy of God for that in or at the very final judgement when they will be judged for that probably, etc.

God Bless.