The First Four Commandments and the Worship Issue of the End Time

Capbook2 · Wednesday at 10:44 PM

David1701 said:
What do you mean by "provide Bible verse that state it is the "new covenant""?

About your statement below, may we know what Bible text that state those statements as the "new covenant?"
As I believe Hebrews 8 recorded the first covenant (Exodus 19:5-8) as faulty that God made a new or second/covenant by putting His Laws on His people's heart.

"The New Covenant is on the basis of unmerited favour, given to those whom God has chosen in Christ, from before the foundation of the world. It is based on Jesus being our Substitute, having taken our sins and just punishment upon himself, so that those who believe in him are forgiven; and God works in us to will and do of his good pleasure, so that we do what pleases him, in our spirit (our flesh fights against this, which is why we groan in this body of death, awaiting the resurrection of our bodies, when Jesus returns)."

David1701 said:
If you mean verses proving that we are not under law but under grace, in the New Covenant, there are many.

Eph. 2:8-10 (A.V.)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Eph. 2:13-18
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Gal. 3:10-14
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal. 3:21-26
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

etc., etc.

I believe verses above are the results of the new covenant, as God's Laws were written in His people's heart, by God/Spirit.
By the internal ministry of the Spirit which is more glorious, we would not be under the Law, as being freed from the Law which means freed from sinning and became slaves of righteousness of faith, that is not opting to our own desires and passions.

2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Rom 7:6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Rom 6:18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

As the word "released" in Romans 7:6, which bears Strong#G2673, in Greek "καταργέω katargeō" defined by Bible Lexicon on that specific verse as means - to free from.

By definition the text statement as "have been released from the Law," means "been freed from the Law" means freed from sinning and became slave of righteousness.

Rom 7:6 But nowG3570 we have been R1releasedG2673 from the LawG3551, having R2diedG599 to that by whichG3739 we were boundG2722, soG5620 that we serveG1398 in R3newnessG2538 of R4the N1SpiritG4151 and not in oldnessG3821 of the letterG1121.

G2673 (Mounce Lexicon)
καταργέω katargeō
27x: to render useless or unproductive, occupy unprofitable, Luk_13:7; to render powerless, Rom_6:6; to make empty and unmeaning, Rom_4:14; to render null, to abrogate, cancel, Rom_3:3; Rom_3:31; Eph_2:15; to bring to an end, 1Co_2:6; 1Co_13:8; 1Co_15:24; 1Co_15:26; 2Co_3:7; to destroy, annihilate, 2Th_2:8; Heb_2:14; to free from, dissever from, Rom_7:2; Rom_7:6; Gal_5:4.

Hentenza · Thursday at 7:44 AM

Capbook2 said:
About your statement below, may we know what Bible text that state those statements as the "new covenant?"

Here is the Christian new covenant.

“And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup, which is poured out for you, is the new covenant in My blood.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22‬:‭20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Luke 22:20 (NASB2020) - And in the same way He took the cup | YouVersion

And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup, which is poured out for you, is the new covenant in My blood.

bible.com

The new covenant is in the blood of Christ not in the letter of the law.

Christ's Bride · Thursday at 9:45 AM

Hentenza said:
Here is the Christian new covenant.

“And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup, which is poured out for you, is the new covenant in My blood.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22‬:‭20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Luke 22:20 (NASB2020) - And in the same way He took the cup | YouVersion

And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup, which is poured out for you, is the new covenant in My blood.

bible.com

The new covenant is in the blood of Christ not in the letter of the law.

remains me of the 4 blind men explaining what an elephant looks like

Christ's Bride · Thursday at 11:38 AM

Christ's Bride said:
remains me of the 4 blind men explaining what an elephant looks like

""not in the letter of the law.""??????????????????? remains me of the 4 blind men explaining what an elephant looks like

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (fill to the full)

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Hentenza · Thursday at 2:25 PM

Christ's Bride said:
remains me of the 4 blind men explaining what an elephant looks like

Let me know when you have something of substance to add to the discussion. Ad Homs are the default response for those that cannot engage or have no reasoned response to the argument.

Bob S · Thursday at 2:39 PM

Christ's Bride said:
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

What are the commandments you believe we must keep?

Christ's Bride said:
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Does that mean the 613 commandments of the old /Covenant?

Christ's Bride said:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (fill to the full

Or how about another definition; bring to an end like Paul preached. An example is Eph 2:10-15

Christ's Bride said:
)

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

613????

Christ's Bride said:
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

You mean like the ritual commands given to Israel by God, feast days, new moons and the weekly Sabbath? All those were only given to Israel. God never demanded that any other nation observe any of them. God has never asked Gentiles to keep days, so why do you believe we are obligated to keep days?

Christ's Bride · Thursday at 4:37 PM

Bob S said:
What are the commandments you believe we must keep?

Does that mean the 613 commandments of the old /Covenant?

Or how about another definition; bring to an end like Paul preached. An example is Eph 2:10-15

613????

You mean like the ritual commands given to Israel by God, feast days, new moons and the weekly Sabbath? All those were only given to Israel. God never demanded that any other nation observe any of them. God has never asked Gentiles to keep days, so why do you believe we are obligated to keep days?

Those are not my words --- your problem is with the ONE who spoke them.

I have kept the Seven Holy Feasts of God and the 7th day Sabbath and the Spiritual Passover beginning in 1969

15One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.

16One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Christ's Bride · Thursday at 5:02 PM

Hentenza said:
Here is the Christian new covenant.

“And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup, which is poured out for you, is the new covenant in My blood.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22‬:‭20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Luke 22:20 (NASB2020) - And in the same way He took the cup | YouVersion

And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup, which is poured out for you, is the new covenant in My blood.

bible.com

The new covenant is in the blood of Christ not in the letter of the law.

"not in the letter of the law."????? then why was this written?

15One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.

16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Paul 19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (fill to the full)

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Hentenza · Thursday at 5:39 PM

Christ's Bride said:
"not in the letter of the law."????? then why was this written?

It was written for Israel and is the hallmark of the Old Covenant. The OC was only for Israel at the time that it was given.

“Now Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: “Listen, Israel, to the statutes and ordinances which I am speaking today for you to hear, so that you may learn them and be careful to do them. The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, all of us who are alive here today.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Deuteronomy 5:1-3 (NASB2020) - Now Moses summoned all Israel and s | YouVersion

Now Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: “Listen, Israel, to the statutes and ordinances which I am speaking today for you to hear, so that you may learn them and be careful to do them. The Lor

bible.com

Christ's Bride said:
15One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.

16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

The sojourner were those that dwelt with Israel and were proselytes learning Judaism including the law. The sojourner does not include anyone that was not dwelling with Israel.

Christ's Bride said:
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Those are Jesus two love commandments not the Mosaic law.

Christ's Bride said:
Paul 19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Again, these are not the commandments of the Mosaic law but the commandments of Jesus who is God. This is plain as Paul begins this verse with “circumcision is nothing” and circumcision is central to the Mosaic law.

Christ's Bride said:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (fill to the full)

Yep. And He indeed completed it. No reason to continue with something that has been completed and finished.

Christ's Bride said:
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Yep. They kept the two commandments of Jesus of which the whole law and the prophets hang and kept their faith in Jesus.

Christ's Bride said:
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Again, all of the law hang on Jesus two love commandments. Keep Jesus commandments by walking in the Spirit. You can’t do it on your own.

Christ's Bride · Thursday at 6:11 PM

Hentenza said:
It was written for Israel and is the hallmark of the Old Covenant. The OC was only for Israel at the time that it was given.

“Now Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: “Listen, Israel, to the statutes and ordinances which I am speaking today for you to hear, so that you may learn them and be careful to do them. The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, all of us who are alive here today.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Deuteronomy 5:1-3 (NASB2020) - Now Moses summoned all Israel and s | YouVersion

Now Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: “Listen, Israel, to the statutes and ordinances which I am speaking today for you to hear, so that you may learn them and be careful to do them. The Lor

bible.com

The sojourner were those that dwelt with Israel and were proselytes learning Judaism including the law. The sojourner does not include anyone that was not dwelling with Israel.

Those are Jesus two love commandments not the Mosaic law.

Again, these are not the commandments of the Mosaic law but the commandments of Jesus who is God. This is plain as Paul begins this verse with “circumcision is nothing” and circumcision is central to the Mosaic law.

Yep. And He indeed completed it. No reason to continue with something that has been completed and finished.

Yep. They kept the two commandments of Jesus of which the whole law and the prophets hang and kept their faith in Jesus.

Again, all of the law hang on Jesus two love commandments. Keep Jesus commandments by walking in the Spirit. You can’t do it on your own.

you are 100% correct I could never obey on my own ---- that is why Christ told the 120 to wait for the Promise.

With the Holy Spirit putting power from on high in a person then they can began to obey.

First comes the physical then the spiritual

physical circumcision came first then the Circumcision with out hands cutting away human nature and replacing it with the Fathers' divine nature.

Capbook2 · Friday at 12:01 AM

Hentenza said:
Here is the Christian new covenant.

“And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup, which is poured out for you, is the new covenant in My blood.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22‬:‭20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Luke 22:20 (NASB2020) - And in the same way He took the cup | YouVersion

And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup, which is poured out for you, is the new covenant in My blood.

bible.com

The new covenant is in the blood of Christ not in the letter of the law.

Nothing in the text that state "not in the letter of the Law."

Yes, the blood of Christ shed on Calvary gives forgiveness.
When forgiveness is given there has to be a sin being forgiven.
And if there's a "sin" there has to be a Law that had been violated, as "sin" is the transgression of the Law. (1John 3:4)
Proves that Christ's blood did not erase God's Law, but cleanses sinners whom had violated the existing Laws.

I believe the new covenant refers about Christ's blood shed on the cross in the NT, than to animals blood in the OT.

Heb 9:22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Christ's Bride · Friday at 6:01 AM

Capbook2 said:
Nothing in the text that state "not in the letter of the Law."

Yes, the blood of Christ shed on Calvary gives forgiveness.
When forgiveness is given there has to be a sin being forgiven.
And if there's a "sin" there has to be a Law that had been violated, as "sin" is the transgression of the Law. (1John 3:4)
Proves that Christ's blood did not erase God's Law, but cleanses sinners whom had violated the existing Laws.

I believe the new covenant refers about Christ's blood shed on the cross in the NT, than to animals blood in the OT.

Heb 9:22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Please forgive me -- I have difficulty with the term "forgiveness"

The actual fact: Jesus Christ paid the penalty of Death required by the Torah for transgressions, not His transgressions but ours.

nothing was 'forgiven' it was paid for with the shed blood of the ONE who MADE US.

Transgress even one of the 10 and death is required.

therefore: either each of us must die for out life time of transgressions or the ONE who Made us can pay our fully earned penalty for each of us.
HE was willing --thank our Father and our Maker for that payment.

the Torah is THE Book of The Law God has determined to we must live by --- it is live by or die.

Without the Torah there can be no penalty of death:

Paul's quote in Romans 4 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.
GWT 15 The laws in Moses' Teachings bring about anger. But where laws don't exist, they can't be broken.

Fact of logic:
if the Torah had been abolished by Christ death or not included in the New Covenant, --- then no one after His Death would need Christ Sacrifice!

"But where laws don't exist, they can't be broken". NO Torah -- no sin!

In the New Covenant, if there were no law requiring the penalty of Death for transgressions of what the Covenant defines as sin --- the Sacrifice of Christ would be needed.

This is a logical fact that can not be "worded" a way;;
without a "system", law, whatever --- which codifies what is determined to be sin, and determines the penalty for that sin -- there can be no penalty of death for an non-existing sin!

Christ's Bride · Friday at 6:22 AM

Christ's Bride said:
Please forgive me -- I have difficulty with the term "forgiveness"

The actual fact: Jesus Christ paid the penalty of Death required by the Torah for transgressions, not His transgressions but ours.

nothing was 'forgiven' it was paid for with the shed blood of the ONE who MADE US.

Transgress even one of the 10 and death is required.

therefore: either each of us must die for out life time of transgressions or the ONE who Made us can pay our fully earned penalty for each of us.
HE was willing --thank our Father and our Maker for that payment.

the Torah is THE Book of The Law God has determined to we must live by --- it is live by or die.

Without the Torah there can be no penalty of death:

Paul's quote in Romans 4 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.
GWT 15 The laws in Moses' Teachings bring about anger. But where laws don't exist, they can't be broken.

Fact of logic:
if the Torah had been abolished by Christ death or not included in the New Covenant, --- then no one after His Death would need Christ Sacrifice!

"But where laws don't exist, they can't be broken". NO Torah -- no sin!

In the New Covenant, if there were no law requiring the penalty of Death for transgressions of what the Covenant defines as sin ---

Christ's Bride said:
the Sacrifice of Christ the Sacrifice of Christ would be NOT needed.

I left out the not

Bob S · Friday at 8:42 AM

Christ's Bride said:
Those are not my words --- your problem is with the ONE who spoke them.

I don't understand; to what are you referring?

Christ's Bride said:
I have kept the Seven Holy Feasts of God and the 7th day Sabbath and the Spiritual Passover beginning in 1969

Hmmm! Jesus said he came to bring to an end the ritual laws of the Old Covenant. Laws concerning Morality are forever and all in Jesus' new Law of love. Jn13:34, Jn15:10-14. It is not what we do (works of the Law), it is what Jesus did

Christ's Bride said:
15One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.

God certainly didn't demand anyone to become a sojourner. Those who did so did it by their own volition.

Christ's Bride said:
16One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Your answer isn't relevant. Those Gentiles that joined with Israel didn't do it because of any law, they did it for personal reasons.

Christ's Bride · Friday at 9:01 AM

Bob S said:
I don't understand; to what are you referring?

Hmmm! Jesus said he came to bring to an end the ritual laws of the Old Covenant. Laws concerning Morality are forever and all in Jesus' new Law of love. Jn13:34, Jn15:10-14. It is not what we do (works of the Law), it is what Jesus did

God certainly didn't demand anyone to become a sojourner. Those who did so did it by their own volition.

Your answer isn't relevant. Those Gentiles that joined with Israel didn't do it because of any law, they did it for personal reasons.

your post yesterday at 3:30

Bob from your answers we are so far apart the gap is too wide to close.

Hentenza · Friday at 8:30 PM

Capbook2 said:
Nothing in the text that state "not in the letter of the Law."

It does say that.

“But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7‬:‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 7:6 (NASB2020) - But now we have been released from | YouVersion

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

bible.com

Capbook2 said:
Yes, the blood of Christ shed on Calvary gives forgiveness.
When forgiveness is given there has to be a sin being forgiven.

The sin is the sin of the unsaved not the sin of the saved. Christ died for the sins of the world so that everyone that believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

Capbook2 said:
And if there's a "sin" there has to be a Law that had been violated, as "sin" is the transgression of the Law. (1John 3:4)
Proves that Christ's blood did not erase God's Law, but cleanses sinners whom had violated the existing Laws.

No. Even the verse that I posted above proved the opposite. Notice how the verse plainly states that we have been released from the law and that we serve in the newness of the Spirit. Is not about the law anymore but about walking in the spirit.

Second, please stop your Strawman. No one here has made the argument that the law has been “erased”. The law has been fulfilled (completed) and absorbed into Jesus two love commandments. We now walk by the Spirit not by the law.

Capbook2 said:
I believe the new covenant refers about Christ's blood shed on the cross in the NT, than to animals blood in the OT.

The animal sacrifice for the “forgiveness of sin” in the OT was continual, over and over again. Jesus sacrifice is once and forever. The difference is huge and life changing.

Capbook2 said:
Heb 9:22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Keep reading.

“Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these things, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a holy place made by hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Holy Place year by year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been revealed to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And just as it is destined for people to die once, and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9‬:‭23‬-‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

https://bible.com/bible/2692/heb.9.23-28.NASB2020

Jesus sacrifice is once and forever. What do you think the last verse means when it says “without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him”?

Capbook2 said:
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

And yet John plainly states in the first chapter the following.

“If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 John 1:8-10 (NASB2020) - If we say that we have no sin, we a | YouVersion

If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all

bible.com

Then right after the verse you quoted John tells us:

“No one who remains in Him sins continually; no one who sins continually has seen Him or knows Him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3‬:‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 John 3:6 (NASB2020) - No one who remains in Him sins cont | YouVersion

No one who remains in Him sins continually; no one who sins continually has seen Him or knows Him.

bible.com

This is because those IN Him have the Spirit who guides them, convicts them, and leads them to repentance. We have an advocate in heaven who forgives our sins continually and we have a helper on earth that leads us continually. No need for the letter of the law.

Capbook2 · 2026-06-20T00:24:59-0500

Christ's Bride said:
Please forgive me -- I have difficulty with the term "forgiveness"

The word "forgiveness" bears Strong#G859, in Greek "ἄφεσις aphesis" defined by Bible Lexicon as - pardon, of sins, (letting them go as if they had never been committed), etc.

From being an unbeliever to a believer of Jesus' sacrifice shed blood on Calvary, we will be justified by faith, and by that we will receive God's forgiveness (letting sins go as if they had never been committed) the wickedness we've done in our old life. As a new Christian life begins at the moment faith set in.

Heb 9:22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Heb 9:22 And accordingG2596 to the N1LawG3551, one may R1almostG4975 say, allG3956 thingsG3956 are cleansedG2511 with bloodG129, and R2withoutG5565 sheddingG130 of bloodG130 there is noG3756 forgivenessG859.

G859
ἄφεσις aphesis
Thayer Definition:
1) release from bondage or imprisonment
2) forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

Christ's Bride said:
The actual fact: Jesus Christ paid the penalty of Death required by the Torah for transgressions, not His transgressions but ours.

nothing was 'forgiven' it was paid for with the shed blood of the ONE who MADE US.

Yes, Jesus paid the penalty of death to those who become Christians through faith.

The word "saved" which bears Strong#G4982, in Greek "σώζω sōzō" defined by Bible Lexicon as - to rescue from danger or destruction, from perishing, to deliver from the penalties and etc.

By God's grace we will be saved through our faith, but faith must be seen by good works not to be saved but by being saved. (Eph 2:8-10)

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Eph 2:8 For R1by graceG5485 you have been savedG4982 R2throughG1223 faithG4102; and N1that not of yourselvesG4771, it is R3the giftG1435 of GodG2316;

G4982
σώζω sōzō
Thayer Definition:
1) to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction
1a) one (from injury or peril)
1a1) to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health
1b1) to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue
1b) to save in the technical biblical sense
1b1) negatively
1b1a) to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgment
1b1b) to save from the evils which obstruct the reception of the Messianic deliverance

Christ's Bride said:
Transgress even one of the 10 and death is required.

Yes, as the wages of sin is death. (Rom 6:23)

Christ's Bride said:
therefore: either each of us must die for out life time of transgressions or the ONE who Made us can pay our fully earned penalty for each of us.
HE was willing --thank our Father and our Maker for that payment.

Yes, to those who believe. (John 3:16)

Christ's Bride said:
the Torah is THE Book of The Law God has determined to we must live by --- it is live by or die.

Yes, we had to live by it as the result of our faith. (2Tim 3:15-17)

2Ti 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
2Ti 3:17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

Christ's Bride said:
Without the Torah there can be no penalty of death:

Paul's quote in Romans 4 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.
GWT 15 The laws in Moses' Teachings bring about anger. But where laws don't exist, they can't be broken.

Fact of logic:
if the Torah had been abolished by Christ death or not included in the New Covenant, --- then no one after His Death would need Christ Sacrifice!

"But where laws don't exist, they can't be broken". NO Torah -- no sin!

In the New Covenant, if there were no law requiring the penalty of Death for transgressions of what the Covenant defines as sin --- the Sacrifice of Christ would be needed.

This is a logical fact that can not be "worded" a way;;
without a "system", law, whatever --- which codifies what is determined to be sin, and determines the penalty for that sin -- there can be no penalty of death for an non-existing sin!

Yes, if there's no Law, no sin, as sin is the violation of the Law.

Capbook2 · 2026-06-20T01:56:40-0500

Hentenza said:
It does say that.

“But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7‬:‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 7:6 (NASB2020) - But now we have been released from | YouVersion

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

bible.com

My response was about your quote of Luke 22:20.

Again, the word "released" which bear Strong#G2673, means - to free from, specifically for Romans 7:6, would mean being free from the Law, is being freed from sinning, and by not sinning we became slaves of righteousness. (Rom 6:18)
That is not opting to our own passions and desires but by the leading of the the Spirit, we will be not under the Law. (Gal 5:18)

Rom 7:6 But nowG3570 we have been R1releasedG2673 from the LawG3551, having R2diedG599 to that by whichG3739 we were boundG2722, soG5620 that we serveG1398 in R3newnessG2538 of R4the N1SpiritG4151 and not in oldnessG3821 of the letterG1121.

G2673
καταργέω katargeō
27x: to render useless or unproductive, occupy unprofitable, Luk_13:7; to render powerless, Rom_6:6; to make empty and unmeaning, Rom_4:14; to render null, to abrogate, cancel, Rom_3:3; Rom_3:31; Eph_2:15; to bring to an end, 1Co_2:6; 1Co_13:8; 1Co_15:24; 1Co_15:26; 2Co_3:7; to destroy, annihilate, 2Th_2:8; Heb_2:14; to free from, dissever from, Rom_7:2; Rom_7:6; Gal_5:4.

Hentenza said:
The sin is the sin of the unsaved not the sin of the saved. Christ died for the sins of the world so that everyone that believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

Yes, but when we live the life of iniquities, we separate ourselves from God, by our sins God will hide His face from us, and doesn't hear us.

Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.

Hentenza said:
No. Even the verse that I posted above proved the opposite. Notice how the verse plainly states that we have been released from the law and that we serve in the newness of the Spirit. Is not about the law anymore but about walking in the spirit.

Yes, when we serve in the newness of the Spirit whom wrote God's Laws in our heart, the internalized ministry of the Spirit will put us not under the Law, again, means freed us from sinning and became slaves of righteousness.(Rom 6:18)

Hentenza said:
Second, please stop your Strawman. No one here has made the argument that the law has been “erased”. The law has been fulfilled (completed) and absorbed into Jesus two love commandments. We now walk by the Spirit not by the law.

Do you mean that the Law about the seventh day Sabbath wasn't erased?
As God is Spirit whom wrote the Laws in His peoples hearts and mind, would the ministry of the Spirit is to abide what was written in our hearts or not?

Hentenza said:
The animal sacrifice for the “forgiveness of sin” in the OT was continual, over and over again. Jesus sacrifice is once and forever. The difference is huge and life changing.

Keep reading.

“Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these things, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a holy place made by hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Holy Place year by year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been revealed to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And just as it is destined for people to die once, and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9‬:‭23‬-‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

https://bible.com/bible/2692/heb.9.23-28.NASB2020

Jesus sacrifice is once and forever. What do you think the last verse means when it says “without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him”?

The word "reference to sin" which bears Strong#G266, in Greek "ἁμαρτία hamartia" defined by Bible Lexicon as - a state of sinfulness as an integral element of someone's nature.

By definition it proves that in Hebrews 9:28 Jesus Christ will appear the second time for salvation to those without "a state of sinfulness as an integral element of someone's nature," being without it means, not committing sin anymore.

Heb 9:28 soG3779 ChristG5547 alsoG2532, having been R1offeredG4374 onceG530 to R2bearG399 the sinsG266 of manyG4183, will appearG3708 R3a secondG1208 timeG1208 for R4salvationG4991 R5withoutG5565 reference to sinG266, to thoseG3588 who R6eagerlyG553 awaitG553 Him.

G266 (Louw and Nida Greek-English Lexicon)
ἁμαρτία hamartia
a state of sinfulness as an integral element of someone's nature
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)

Hentenza said:
And yet John plainly states in the first chapter the following.

“If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 John 1:8-10 (NASB2020) - If we say that we have no sin, we a | YouVersion

If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all

bible.com

Yes, we have to abide the guidance of the Holy Spirit who work for our sanctification.
The Spirit will not led us to sin but if anyone sins, we have as Advocate Jesus whom will forgive us if we confess our sins. (1John 1:9, 2:1)

1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

Hentenza said:
Then right after the verse you quoted John tells us:

“No one who remains in Him sins continually; no one who sins continually has seen Him or knows Him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3‬:‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 John 3:6 (NASB2020) - No one who remains in Him sins cont | YouVersion

No one who remains in Him sins continually; no one who sins continually has seen Him or knows Him.

bible.com

This is because those IN Him have the Spirit who guides them, convicts them, and leads them to repentance. We have an advocate in heaven who forgives our sins continually and we have a helper on earth that leads us continually. No need for the letter of the law.

Yes, by the Spirit"s guidance and not opting to our own will, we'll be slaves of righteousness. (Rom 6:18)

Christ's Bride · 2026-06-20T06:18:30-0500

Hentenza said:
It does say that.

“But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7‬:‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 7:6 (NASB2020) - But now we have been released from | YouVersion

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

bible.com

The sin is the sin of the unsaved not the sin of the saved. Christ died for the sins of the world so that everyone that believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

No. Even the verse that I posted above proved the opposite. Notice how the verse plainly states that we have been released from the law and that we serve in the newness of the Spirit. Is not about the law anymore but about walking in the spirit.

Second, please stop your Strawman. No one here has made the argument that the law has been “erased”. The law has been fulfilled (completed) and absorbed into Jesus two love commandments. We now walk by the Spirit not by the law.

The animal sacrifice for the “forgiveness of sin” in the OT was continual, over and over again. Jesus sacrifice is once and forever. The difference is huge and life changing.

Keep reading.

“Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these things, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a holy place made by hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Holy Place year by year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been revealed to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And just as it is destined for people to die once, and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9‬:‭23‬-‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

https://bible.com/bible/2692/heb.9.23-28.NASB2020

Jesus sacrifice is once and forever. What do you think the last verse means when it says “without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him”?

And yet John plainly states in the first chapter the following.

“If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 John 1:8-10 (NASB2020) - If we say that we have no sin, we a | YouVersion

If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all

bible.com

Then right after the verse you quoted John tells us:

“No one who remains in Him sins continually; no one who sins continually has seen Him or knows Him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3‬:‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 John 3:6 (NASB2020) - No one who remains in Him sins cont | YouVersion

No one who remains in Him sins continually; no one who sins continually has seen Him or knows Him.

bible.com

This is because those IN Him have the Spirit who guides them, convicts them, and leads them to repentance. We have an advocate in heaven who forgives our sins continually and we have a helper on earth that leads us continually. No need for the letter of the law.

“”No. Even the verse that I posted above proved the opposite. Notice how the verse plainly states that we have been released from the law and that we serve in the newness of the Spirit. Is not about the law anymore but about walking in the spirit””

What “releases” a person from the sentence of death for transgressing the Law?

A pardon from the governing authority of the law.

Search the Torah and you will find no authority for a pardon.

What else releases a person – from the sentence of death --- their own death fulfills the sentence of death.

What released sinners, under sentence of death, that have repented of their sins and joined in Christ's death, burial and resurrection through baptism --- THE sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

The death of Jesus Christ removes, PAYS, our penalty of death --- all are under.

the death of Christ did not, can not remove the Law, it can only pay the penalty required by Law.

Where are the verses giving the details on how to “walk in the Spirit”

Is “walking in the Spirit” the Narrow Way, the difficult Way Christ taught?

Does this “walk” take us away from our iniquities, out of our lawlessness, out of this evil sinful world?

I wonder what sin is?? Is there an Apostle that has given us a precise definition of sin?

Does “Walking in the Spirit” mean,, not walking in sin? what does it actually mean?

where does Jesus Christ teach us how to walk in the spirit?

Christ's Bride · 2026-06-20T07:33:12-0500

Hentenza said:
It does say that.

“But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7‬:‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 7:6 (NASB2020) - But now we have been released from | YouVersion

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

bible.com

The sin is the sin of the unsaved not the sin of the saved. Christ died for the sins of the world so that everyone that believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

No. Even the verse that I posted above proved the opposite. Notice how the verse plainly states that we have been released from the law and that we serve in the newness of the Spirit. Is not about the law anymore but about walking in the spirit.

Second, please stop your Strawman. No one here has made the argument that the law has been “erased”. The law has been fulfilled (completed) and absorbed into Jesus two love commandments. We now walk by the Spirit not by the law.

The animal sacrifice for the “forgiveness of sin” in the OT was continual, over and over again. Jesus sacrifice is once and forever. The difference is huge and life changing.

Keep reading.

“Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these things, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a holy place made by hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Holy Place year by year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been revealed to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And just as it is destined for people to die once, and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9‬:‭23‬-‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

https://bible.com/bible/2692/heb.9.23-28.NASB2020

Jesus sacrifice is once and forever. What do you think the last verse means when it says “without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him”?

And yet John plainly states in the first chapter the following.

“If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 John 1:8-10 (NASB2020) - If we say that we have no sin, we a | YouVersion

If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all

bible.com

Then right after the verse you quoted John tells us:

“No one who remains in Him sins continually; no one who sins continually has seen Him or knows Him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3‬:‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 John 3:6 (NASB2020) - No one who remains in Him sins cont | YouVersion

No one who remains in Him sins continually; no one who sins continually has seen Him or knows Him.

bible.com

This is because those IN Him have the Spirit who guides them, convicts them, and leads them to repentance. We have an advocate in heaven who forgives our sins continually and we have a helper on earth that leads us continually. No need for the letter of the law.

The ‘MANY’ today teach we must “Walk in the Spirit”; which the Many teach -- is not about the Law -- that we have been “released” from the Law/Torah.

Meaning -- we are no longer subject to the Law/Torah, no longer must look to the Law as our guide to righteousness or Holiness. That the law has been fulfilled (completed) and absorbed into Jesus two “love commandments”. We now walk by the Spirit -- not by the law.

The two “love commandments” taught in the Old Testament.

Which is counterintuitive; why would a person not want to walk according to the 10 Commandments which teach how not to walk, live, in sin.

Adultery is a sin, lying is sin, murder is sin, worshiping idols is sin.

When the Spirit was first poured out from heaven on the 120, it put into them “power from on High”. This is the Power the Children of Israel did not have --- thus could never obey the Voice of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ came to earth and Walked Perfectly “In the Law” and told us to follow Him and in a number of statements instructed those that follow Him to obey and to keep the Commandments. Christ had the Spirit without measure.

Then there is David, a man after Jesus Christ own heart/nature, who will be King over the 12 Tribes When Christ’s returns as KING of Kings.

David Who wrote the following;

169 Let my cry come near before thee, O LORD: give me understanding according to thy word.

170 Let my supplication come before thee: deliver me according to thy word.

171 My lips shall utter praise, when thou hast taught me thy statutes.

172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments [are] righteousness.

173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.

174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law [is] my delight.

175 Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me.

176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget

I will walk according to the Commandments including the Forth

The First Four Commandments and the Worship Issue of the End Time

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I will fear no evil for You are with me

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