The First Four Commandments and the Worship Issue of the End Time

Hentenza said:

Are you claiming that I am not allowing Christ to rule over me? I guess walking in the Spirit does not count for you?

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I follow Jesus Christ, my desire in following Him, is to answer as He would answer.
Which I have not done in the past, sorry.

I can only offer His words and my comments

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction,
and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life,
and few there be that find it.

Christ states clearly, it is the FEW that find eternal life, not the Many and who are the Many?
What is that broad Way? could it be what has become known as christianity?

Sunday, easter, xmas, no law, grace, walk in the spirit, born again, no works, just faith?

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

I have found nothing that indicated the word "fulfil" means end, abolish or destroy, it mean to complete.

But in the next verses Christ clears up any misunderstanding.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

Most would say the Sabbath would be the least commandment and it carries the penalty of death.

but whosoever ""shall do"" and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

then towards the end of His 3 1/2 years of confirming the marriage covenant He says this;
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

This is only the tip of the ice berg so to speak --- The Word of God calls for obeying the voice of God,

and then Jesus Christ states: you can say many things, but if you are not obeying -- depart.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I completely understand the mind set against "earning Salvation" and I agree, I understand it is a free gift, obeying earns zero.
Obeying is required but earns a person zero --- The Law is for the purpose of codifying what God the Father and Christ have determined are sins against THEM. and no one that refused to stop sinning will enter Their Family.

Moses, the only human to ever speak face to face with God, was not allowed into the Promised Land because He did not obey the voice of God.
I have set my mind to follow the Voice of my God which places in with the Few.

Capbook2 said:

You did not define what "covenant" means.
May we know how you define "covenant?"

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A covenant can be a disposition (e.g. a last will/testament) or a compact.

Yes, the new covenant/agreement was God put His Laws in His people's mind and written in their heart.
Nothing in the Law that was changed only the placement. (2Cor 3:3,7)

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Jesus himself, even during his earthly ministry, changed some of what the law said (e.g. instead of an eye for an eye, he told us to turn the other cheek).

The New Covenant is not a set of rules and regulations, but life in the Holy Spirit, being led by him.

2Co 3:3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

Yet it is true that the blood of Jesus the Messiah speaks better things than that of the blood of Abel. The blood of Abel brings vengeance but the blood of Jesus brings mercy.

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The law is the ministry of death, as 2 Cor. 3:7 says (and you quoted it), because it reveals and stirs up sin, then shows everyone under it to be guilty.

I colored red the word "handwriting" which refers to the book of the law handwritten by Moses and was placed beside the ark and some was nailed to the cross. (Deut 31:26)
While God's Law the Ten Commandments written by the finger of God was placed inside the ark. (1Kings 8:9)

Deu 31:26 "Take this book of the law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may remain there as a witness against you.

1Ki 8:9 There was nothing in the ark except the two tablets of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, where the LORD made a covenant with the sons of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

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The ten commandments were written in stone, by the hand of God. They are the ministry of death and condemnation, as the Bible states.

Yes, By God's grace we are saved through our faith, but faith should be shown by good work. (Eph 2:8-10)
Is doing God's Commandments not good works? It can spare us from the lake of fire.

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Trying to live by the ministry of death and condemnation is not good works; it is dead works, from which we need to repent. It is attempting to produce one's own righteousness,by works of the law; rather than looking away to Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith, and walking in step with the Holy Spirit.

How did the "saints" being described? By their endurance of keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. (Rev 14:12)
We must always keep in mind that the "saints" will be spared from the lake of fire which is the second death. (Rev 20:9,10,14)
Do we want to be spared from second death or not?

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Trying to be righteous, by works of the law, will not keep anyone from the second death. We are kept from the second death by God's unmerited favour, through faith in Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit leads us to bear good fruit (love, joy, peace, etc.).

Rev 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Rev 20:9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

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God works in Christians to will and to do of his good pleasure. It is in this way that we keep his commandments, not by trying to do the works of the law.

David1701 said:

A covenant can be a disposition (e.g. a last will/testament) or a compact.

Click to expand...

Yes, a compact still is an agreement between two parties.
The "last will/testament" was not listed as one of the definition of covenant. See below.
Any Bible verse to support your definition?

Gen 9:12 God said, "This is the sign of the covenant which I am making between Me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all successive generations;

Gen 9:12 GodH430 saidH559, "ThisH2088 is R1the signH226 of the covenantH1285 whichH834 I am makingH5414 betweenH996 Me and you and everyH3605 livingH2416a creatureH5315 that is with you, for N1allH5769 successiveH5769 generationsH1755;

H1285
בּרית berı̂yth
BDB Definition:
1) covenant, alliance, pledge
1a) between men
1a1) treaty, alliance, league (man to man)
1a2) constitution, ordinance (monarch to subjects)
1a3) agreement, pledge (man to man)
1a4) alliance (of friendship)
1a5) alliance (of marriage)
1b) between God and man
1b1) alliance (of friendship)
1b2) covenant (divine ordinance with signs or pledges)
2) (phrases)
2a) covenant making
2b) covenant keeping
2c) covenant violation

David1701 said:

Jesus himself, even during his earthly ministry, changed some of what the law said (e.g. instead of an eye for an eye, he told us to turn the other cheek).

Click to expand...

Those are judgements, not included in the Ten Commandments or God's Law.

David1701 said:

The New Covenant is not a set of rules and regulations, but life in the Holy Spirit, being led by him.

Click to expand...

Yes, as God's Laws written in our heart, the ministry of the Spirit is more glorious. (2Cor 3:3,8 Heb 8:8-13))

2Co 3:3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

David1701 said:

The law is the ministry of death, as 2 Cor. 3:7 says (and you quoted it), because it reveals and stirs up sin, then shows everyone under it to be guilty.

The ten commandments were written in stone, by the hand of God. They are the ministry of death and condemnation, as the Bible states.

Click to expand...

Is it wrong to call the old covenant the ministry of death? No, because that is what the law does to us: It slays us as guilty sinners before God so that we can be resurrected by the new covenant. It isn’t that the problem was with the law, but with us: The sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. (Rom 7:5)

Rom 7:5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.

David1701 said:

Trying to live by the ministry of death and condemnation is not good works; it is dead works, from which we need to repent. It is attempting to produce one's own righteousness,by works of the law; rather than looking away to Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith, and walking in step with the Holy Spirit.

Click to expand...

Yes, when we always follow the guidance of the Spirit without opting on our own, we'll be free from the Law, means freed from sinning and became slaves of righteousness. (Rom 7:6, Rom 6:18)

The word "released" in Romans 7:6, bears Strong#G2673, in Greek "καταργέω katargeō" defined by Bible Lexicon specifically from the text mentioned as means - to free from, etc.

Rom 7:6 But nowG3570 we have been R1releasedG2673 from the LawG3551, having R2diedG599 to that by whichG3739 we were boundG2722, soG5620 that we serveG1398 in R3newnessG2538 of R4the N1SpiritG4151 and not in oldnessG3821 of the letterG1121.

G2673
καταργέω katargeō
27x: to render useless or unproductive, occupy unprofitable, Luk_13:7; to render powerless, Rom_6:6; to make empty and unmeaning, Rom_4:14; to render null, to abrogate, cancel, Rom_3:3; Rom_3:31; Eph_2:15; to bring to an end, 1Co_2:6; 1Co_13:8; 1Co_15:24; 1Co_15:26; 2Co_3:7; to destroy, annihilate, 2Th_2:8; Heb_2:14; to free from, dissever from, Rom_7:2; Rom_7:6; Gal_5:4.

Rom 6:18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

David1701 said:

Trying to be righteous, by works of the law, will not keep anyone from the second death. We are kept from the second death by God's unmerited favour, through faith in Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit leads us to bear good fruit (love, joy, peace, etc.).

Click to expand...

No one will become righteous by our own works, as we always fall short to the glory of God.
If we want to be spared from the second death, the Bible records that the "saints" being spared from the lake of fire, the second death persevered on keeping the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. (Rev 14:12 Rev 20:9,10,14))
As faith should be shown by our works, through loving Jesus and the Father. (John 15:10)

Rev 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

David1701 said:

God works in Christians to will and to do of his good pleasure. It is in this way that we keep his commandments, not by trying to do the works of the law.

Click to expand...

Yes, by God's grace we are saved through our faith, and as you state that "it is in that way that we keep His commandments," being the result of being saved, not to be save.

Capbook2 said:

2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

Is it wrong to call the old covenant the ministry of death? No, because that is what the law does to us: It slays us as guilty sinners before God so that we can be resurrected by the new covenant. It isn’t that the problem was with the law, but with us: The sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. (Rom 7:5)

Click to expand...

Here I thought Paul called the Ten Commandments "The ministry of Death". Was it wrong for Paul to write that the Ministry of Death was only temporary? what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

If the Ten were transitory, why would God write them in our hearts? These verses in 2Cor tell us that the Holy Spirit Jesus gave us is in our hearts to be our guide, not the ministry of death.

Capbook2 said:

Yes, a compact still is an agreement between two parties.
The "last will/testament" was not listed as one of the definition of covenant. See below.
Any Bible verse to support your definition?

Gen 9:12 God said, "This is the sign of the covenant which I am making between Me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all successive generations;

Gen 9:12 GodH430 saidH559, "ThisH2088 is R1the signH226 of the covenantH1285 whichH834 I am makingH5414 betweenH996 Me and you and everyH3605 livingH2416a creatureH5315 that is with you, for N1allH5769 successiveH5769 generationsH1755;

H1285
בּרית berı̂yth
BDB Definition:
1) covenant, alliance, pledge
1a) between men
1a1) treaty, alliance, league (man to man)
1a2) constitution, ordinance (monarch to subjects)
1a3) agreement, pledge (man to man)
1a4) alliance (of friendship)
1a5) alliance (of marriage)
1b) between God and man
1b1) alliance (of friendship)
1b2) covenant (divine ordinance with signs or pledges)
2) (phrases)
2a) covenant making
2b) covenant keeping
2c) covenant violation

Click to expand...

You need to look at the meanings of the Greek word translated "covenant" or "testament", in the New Testament, not merely the O.C. Hebrew word.

Those are judgements, not included in the Ten Commandments or God's Law.

Click to expand...

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is part of the O.C. law, given to Israel by God. The ten commandments were just the first instalment of that law.

Yes, as God's Laws written in our heart, the ministry of the Spirit is more glorious. (2Cor 3:3,8 Heb 8:8-13)

Click to expand...

2Co 3:3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

Click to expand...

The ministry of the Spirit is not only that God's laws are written in our hearts, but that the Holy Spirit leads us in what to think, say and do. It's a living relationship with the Lord, not just a set of rules.

Is it wrong to call the old covenant the ministry of death? No, because that is what the law does to us: It slays us as guilty sinners before God so that we can be resurrected by the new covenant. It isn’t that the problem was with the law, but with us: The sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. (Rom 7:5)

Click to expand...

That is, more or less, what I posted. The law is the ministry of death and condemnation, because sinful man will not and cannot keep it.

Rom 7:5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.

Yes, when we always follow the guidance of the Spirit without opting on our own, we'll be free from the Law, means freed from sinning and became slaves of righteousness. (Rom 7:6, Rom 6:18)

Click to expand...

Being free from the law also means that we are not under it for justification, sanctification or as a way of life.

The word "released" in Romans 7:6, bears Strong#G2673, in Greek "καταργέω katargeō" defined by Bible Lexicon specifically from the text mentioned as means - to free from, etc.

Click to expand...

Rom 7:6 But nowG3570 we have been R1releasedG2673 from the LawG3551, having R2diedG599 to that by whichG3739 we were boundG2722, soG5620 that we serveG1398 in R3newnessG2538 of R4the N1SpiritG4151 and not in oldnessG3821 of the letterG1121.

G2673
καταργέω katargeō
27x: to render useless or unproductive, occupy unprofitable, Luk_13:7; to render powerless, Rom_6:6; to make empty and unmeaning, Rom_4:14; to render null, to abrogate, cancel, Rom_3:3; Rom_3:31; Eph_2:15; to bring to an end, 1Co_2:6; 1Co_13:8; 1Co_15:24; 1Co_15:26; 2Co_3:7; to destroy, annihilate, 2Th_2:8; Heb_2:14; to free from, dissever from, Rom_7:2; Rom_7:6; Gal_5:4.

Rom 6:18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Click to expand...

Yes.

No one will become righteous by our own works, as we always fall short to the glory of God.
If we want to be spared from the second death, the Bible records that the "saints" being spared from the lake of fire, the second death persevered on keeping the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. (Rev 14:12 Rev 20:9,10,14))
As faith should be shown by our works, through loving Jesus and the Father. (John 15:10)

Click to expand...

Yes, as far as it goes; however, that omits half of the story. We are kept, by the power of God, through faith (which itself is a gift from God; and the gifts of God are irrevocable) unto salvation. Also, those who have been born again, by the Holy Spirit, are unable to practise sin, since they have been born again (1 John 1:9).

Rev 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

Yes, by God's grace we are saved through our faith, and as you state that "it is in that way that we keep His commandments," being the result of being saved, not to be save.

Click to expand...

Christ's Bride said:

I follow Jesus Christ, my desire in following Him, is to answer as He would answer.
Which I have not done in the past, sorry.

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Us both.

Christ's Bride said:

I can only offer His words and my comments

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction,
and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life,
and few there be that find it.

Christ states clearly, it is the FEW that find eternal life, not the Many and who are the Many?
What is that broad Way? could it be what has become known as christianity?

Click to expand...

That is not what these verses teach. In the broader context of the Sermon on the Mount, the broad road represents "surface-level" religion or relying on one's own perceived "goodness". The narrow road represents deep, inner righteousness, a genuine relationship with God fueled by sacrificial love rather than just following a set of rules. Jesus calls Holy Spirit the helper for a reason. We have more than proven that we can’t do it in our own.

Jesus also said:

““Come to Me, all who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is comfortable, and My burden is light.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11‬:‭28‬-‭30‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

This is Jesus rest for all believers.

Christ's Bride said:

Sunday, easter, xmas, no law, grace, walk in the spirit, born again, no works, just faith?

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

I have found nothing that indicated the word "fulfil" means end, abolish or destroy, it mean to complete.

Click to expand...

It does indeed means to complete so Jesus completed the law because He is the only one that could. None of the law has passed just has a post completion function. In both of Jesus commandment hang the whole law and the prophets. Jesus completing the law changed the function of the law. Those that believe in Jesus have already been convicted of their sins and changed their minds, undergone metanoia. The remaining Ning function of the law is to convict believers of their sins and show them that they need a savior. Metanoia only happens after surrendering to our savior. No need for the law since at that point they have the Holy Spirit to guide them.,

Christ's Bride said:

But in the next verses Christ clears up any misunderstanding.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

Most would say the Sabbath would be the least commandment and it carries the penalty of death.

Click to expand...

Only for the receivers of the Mosaic law which are the Jews that are yet to accept the Messiah. Again, since the whole law and the prophets hang on Jesus two commandments those that teach not to keep Jesus two commandments will indeed be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. These verses have nothing to do with the Mosaic law for the Christian.

Christ's Bride said:

but whosoever ""shall do"" and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Click to expand...

Keep reading.

““For I say to you that unless your righteousness far surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5‬:‭20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

How can our righteousness exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees? That’s easy.

“For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes of the righteousness that is based on the Law, that the person who performs them will live by them. But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will go up into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10‬:‭4‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Christ's Bride said:

then towards the end of His 3 1/2 years of confirming the marriage covenant He says this;
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

This is only the tip of the ice berg so to speak --- The Word of God calls for obeying the voice of God,

Click to expand...

These are Jesus two commandments not the 613 commandments of the Mosaic law.

Christ's Bride said:

and then Jesus Christ states: you can say many things, but if you are not obeying -- depart.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Click to expand...

Out of context. The verses that you quoted refer to false prophets who come in sheep clothing.

““Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they?”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭15‬-‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Christ's Bride said:

I completely understand the mind set against "earning Salvation" and I agree, I understand it is a free gift, obeying earns zero.
Obeying is required but earns a person zero --- The Law is for the purpose of codifying what God the Father and Christ have determined are sins against THEM. and no one that refused to stop sinning will enter Their Family.

Click to expand...

From one side of your mouth you preach that no one can earn salvation and with the other you say that a person earns salvation by the works of the Mosaic law. Can a person be justified by the works of the law? Of course not. Go beyond the law Christ’s bride and walk in the Spirit. Follow Jesus two commandments to live as He wants us to.

Christ's Bride said:

Moses, the only human to ever speak face to face with God, was not allowed into the Promised Land because He did not obey the voice of God.

Click to expand...

But Moses did enter the kingdom of God because of his faith.

BTW- Joshua entered the promise land but God still did not give them rest.

Christ's Bride said:

I have set my mind to follow the Voice of my God which places in with the Few.

Click to expand...

You are trying to save yourself. Good luck with that. God will save all that has faith in Jesus Christ as their savior. Jesus did not die on the cross for a few but for the sins of the whole world.

Hentenza said:

Us both.

That is not what these verses teach. In the broader context of the Sermon on the Mount, the broad road represents "surface-level" religion or relying on one's own perceived "goodness". The narrow road represents deep, inner righteousness, a genuine relationship with God fueled by sacrificial love rather than just following a set of rules. Jesus calls Holy Spirit the helper for a reason. We have more than proven that we can’t do it in our own.

Jesus also said:

““Come to Me, all who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is comfortable, and My burden is light.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11‬:‭28‬-‭30‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 11:28-30 (NASB2020) - “Come to Me, all who are weary and | YouVersion

“Come to Me, all who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke

bible.com

This is Jesus rest for all believers.





It does indeed means to complete so Jesus completed the law because He is the only one that could. None of the law has passed just has a post completion function. In both of Jesus commandment hang the whole law and the prophets. Jesus completing the law changed the function of the law. Those that believe in Jesus have already been convicted of their sins and changed their minds, undergone metanoia. The remaining Ning function of the law is to convict believers of their sins and show them that they need a savior. Metanoia only happens after surrendering to our savior. No need for the law since at that point they have the Holy Spirit to guide them.,

Only for the receivers of the Mosaic law which are the Jews that are yet to accept the Messiah. Again, since the whole law and the prophets hang on Jesus two commandments those that teach not to keep Jesus two commandments will indeed be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. These verses have nothing to do with the Mosaic law for the Christian.

Keep reading.

““For I say to you that unless your righteousness far surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5‬:‭20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 5:20 (NASB2020) - “For I say to you that unless your | YouVersion

“For I say to you that unless your righteousness far surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

bible.com

How can our righteousness exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees? That’s easy.

“For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes of the righteousness that is based on the Law, that the person who performs them will live by them. But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will go up into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10‬:‭4‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 10:4-10 (NASB2020) - For Christ is the end of the Law fo | YouVersion

For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes of the righteousness that is based on the Law, that the person who performs them will live by them. But th

bible.com

These are Jesus two commandments not the 613 commandments of the Mosaic law.

Out of context. The verses that you quoted refer to false prophets who come in sheep clothing.

““Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they?”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭15‬-‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 7:15-16 (NASB2020) - “Beware of the false prophets, who | YouVersion

“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thist

bible.com

From one side of your mouth you preach that no one can earn salvation and with the other you say that a person earns salvation by the works of the Mosaic law. Can a person be justified by the works of the law? Of course not. Go beyond the law Christ’s bride and walk in the Spirit. Follow Jesus two commandments to live as He wants us to.

But Moses did enter the kingdom of God because of his faith.

BTW- Joshua entered the promise land but God still did not give them rest.


You are trying to save yourself. Good luck with that. God will save all that has faith in Jesus Christ as their savior. Jesus did not die on the cross for a few but for the sins of the whole world.

Click to expand...

I will address only this one -- too many and can not change a single mind -- only the Father can Change minds.

But Moses ''did enter'' the kingdom of God because of his faith.

39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

No one has been given the Gift of eternal life, only Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the First born from above into Spirit.

All the men and women "of God" are in their graves waiting for the Return of Christ and the First Resurrection.
All have died including Enoch and Elijah. 13These all died in faith, not having received the promises,

Hentenza said:

Us both.

That is not what these verses teach. In the broader context of the Sermon on the Mount, the broad road represents "surface-level" religion or relying on one's own perceived "goodness". The narrow road represents deep, inner righteousness, a genuine relationship with God fueled by sacrificial love rather than just following a set of rules. Jesus calls Holy Spirit the helper for a reason. We have more than proven that we can’t do it in our own.

Jesus also said:

““Come to Me, all who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is comfortable, and My burden is light.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11‬:‭28‬-‭30‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 11:28-30 (NASB2020) - “Come to Me, all who are weary and | YouVersion

“Come to Me, all who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke

bible.com

This is Jesus rest for all believers.





It does indeed means to complete so Jesus completed the law because He is the only one that could. None of the law has passed just has a post completion function. In both of Jesus commandment hang the whole law and the prophets. Jesus completing the law changed the function of the law. Those that believe in Jesus have already been convicted of their sins and changed their minds, undergone metanoia. The remaining Ning function of the law is to convict believers of their sins and show them that they need a savior. Metanoia only happens after surrendering to our savior. No need for the law since at that point they have the Holy Spirit to guide them.,

Only for the receivers of the Mosaic law which are the Jews that are yet to accept the Messiah. Again, since the whole law and the prophets hang on Jesus two commandments those that teach not to keep Jesus two commandments will indeed be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. These verses have nothing to do with the Mosaic law for the Christian.

Keep reading.

““For I say to you that unless your righteousness far surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5‬:‭20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 5:20 (NASB2020) - “For I say to you that unless your | YouVersion

“For I say to you that unless your righteousness far surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

bible.com

How can our righteousness exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees? That’s easy.

“For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes of the righteousness that is based on the Law, that the person who performs them will live by them. But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will go up into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10‬:‭4‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 10:4-10 (NASB2020) - For Christ is the end of the Law fo | YouVersion

For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes of the righteousness that is based on the Law, that the person who performs them will live by them. But th

bible.com

These are Jesus two commandments not the 613 commandments of the Mosaic law.

Out of context. The verses that you quoted refer to false prophets who come in sheep clothing.

““Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they?”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭15‬-‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 7:15-16 (NASB2020) - “Beware of the false prophets, who | YouVersion

“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thist

bible.com

From one side of your mouth you preach that no one can earn salvation and with the other you say that a person earns salvation by the works of the Mosaic law. Can a person be justified by the works of the law? Of course not. Go beyond the law Christ’s bride and walk in the Spirit. Follow Jesus two commandments to live as He wants us to.

But Moses did enter the kingdom of God because of his faith.

BTW- Joshua entered the promise land but God still did not give them rest.


You are trying to save yourself. Good luck with that. God will save all that has faith in Jesus Christ as their savior. Jesus did not die on the cross for a few but for the sins of the whole world.

Click to expand...

""Jesus did not die on the cross for a few but for the sins of the whole world.""

just to bring you up to date -- only 25% of the 8 billion are "believers" or have some interest in Christianity--

some on this site told me the 6 billion will go to hell and be punished for eternity

the web says around 45 million attend church on sunday in the US out of 330 million

Christ's Bride said:

""Jesus did not die on the cross for a few but for the sins of the whole world.""

just to bring you up to date -- only 25% of the 8 billion are "believers" or have some interest in Christianity--

some on this site told me the 6 billion will go to hell and be punished for eternity

the web says around 45 million attend church on sunday in the US out of 330 million

Click to expand...

The scriptures say otherwise.

“My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Faith is, of course, necessary but there is no way that your simple math hinders God from His work.

But let’s continue with your simple math. You claim that following the law, primarily keeping the Saturday sabbath, is necessary for salvation (you called it sinning not to keep the law). So only around 1% of Christians around the world keep the sabbath while a negligible percentage keep the law. So out of 2.6 billion only 24 million or so will be saved. As far as the world population of 8.3 billion Jesus died for only .3% of the world’s population. I guess in your world God and Jesus failed.

Hentenza said:

The scriptures say otherwise.

“My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 John 2:1-2 (NASB2020) - My little children, I am writing th | YouVersion

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation fo

bible.com

Faith is, of course, necessary but there is no way that your simple math hinders God from His work.

But let’s continue with your simple math. You claim that following the law, primarily keeping the Saturday sabbath, is necessary for salvation (you called it sinning not to keep the law). So only around 1% of Christians around the world keep the sabbath while a negligible percentage keep the law. So out of 2.6 billion only 24 million or so will be saved. As far as the world population of 8.3 billion Jesus died for only .3% of the world’s population. I guess in your world God and Jesus failed.

Click to expand...

No, the point I will make, the one I was alluding too -- if "IF" God and Christ were trying to "save' everyone now --- eternal life would only be given to a very small percent of the 100 billion

Christ told us it is the Few now being given eternal life, not the many.

this IS NOT the only day the Gift of eternal life will be offered. If it was, the vast majority of the 100 billion that have live to date, did not make it.

Rev 20 shows the 100 billion or what ever the number is, will get their one chance after the 1000 years.
God will save the majority of the 100 billion, but not today.

Christ's Bride said:

No, the point I will make, the one I was alluding too -- if "IF" God and Christ were trying to "save' everyone now --- eternal life would only be given to a very small percent of the 100 billion

Click to expand...

You have no idea who God chooses to save. You are not God nor do you know the heart of the individual person.

Christ's Bride said:

Christ told us it is the Few now being given eternal life, not the many.

Click to expand...

Nope. That is not what Jesus said.

Christ's Bride said:

this IS NOT the only day the Gift of eternal life will be offered. If it was, the vast majority of the 100 billion that have live to date, did not make it.

Click to expand...

Again, you have no idea how many people have been saved.

Christ's Bride said:

Rev 20 shows the 100 billion or what ever the number is, will get their one chance after the 1000 years.
God will save the majority of the 100 billion, but not today.

Click to expand...

Ok you changed your argument here. So you are now saying that no one is actually saved today but will be saved at the judgement seat of Christ at the end of time?

Will it matter then if they were Christians that did not keep the Mosaic law because it was never given to the Christian? No sabbath keeping?

Bob S said:

Here I thought Paul called the Ten Commandments "The ministry of Death". Was it wrong for Paul to write that the Ministry of Death was only temporary?

Click to expand...

Yes, the placement of the two tablets of stone was temporary, it was called the "ministry of death" as it was not yet written in our heart, our sinful passions and desires were always at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
But when written by God/Spirit in our heart, it is now internal, ministered by the Spirit compared to the external placement of God's Law in stone.

Bob S said:

what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

If the Ten were transitory, why would God write them in our hearts? These verses in 2Cor tell us that the Holy Spirit Jesus gave us is in our hearts to be our guide, not the ministry of death.

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The old covenant had glory, but the glory of the new covenant far outshines it, just as the sun always outshines the brightest moon. Compared to the new covenant, the old covenant had no glory because of the glory that excels in the new covenant.

Here, we have to know what the old covenant/agreement was.
Before the giving of the Ten Commandments a covenant/agreement was made, a meeting of minds was established.
God said, "if you will obey my voice, you shall be My people," and the people answered "all that the Lord has spoken we will do."(Ex 19:5-8)

But that first covenant/agreement was always violated it was made faulty, that's why a second was made, the "new covenant" where God's Laws was written in their heart and the Father will be their God and they shall be God's people.

Exo 19:5 'Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine;
Exo 19:6 and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel."
Exo 19:7 So Moses came and called the elders of the people, and set before them all these words which the LORD had commanded him.
Exo 19:8 All the people answered together and said, "All that the LORD has spoken we will do!" And Moses brought back the words of the people to the LORD. (OLD COVENANT)

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, He says, "BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;
Heb 8:10 "FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (NEW COVENANT)

David1701 said:

You need to look at the meanings of the Greek word translated "covenant" or "testament", in the New Testament, not merely the O.C. Hebrew word.

Click to expand...

As credentialed Lexicographers defined original Bible words what it means at the time it was used, Septuagint was a Greek translation of the Old Testament but what Lexicographers defined were original Bible words, Old Testament books were written in Paleo Hebrew script, Hebrew and Aramaic. That I would prefer the definition of it from original Hebrew word.

David1701 said:

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is part of the O.C. law, given to Israel by God. The ten commandments were just the first instalment of that law.

Click to expand...

The Ten Commandments was the set of ten fingerwritten by God, and added no more.
If it was just an installment, could we cite a verse of other additional fingerwritten Laws of God in stone?

Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

David1701 said:

The ministry of the Spirit is not only that God's laws are written in our hearts, but that the Holy Spirit leads us in what to think, say and do. It's a living relationship with the Lord, not just a set of rules.

Click to expand...

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit will led us to sin?
If not, then that proves that there are rules the Spirit would led us not to do.

David1701 said:

That is, more or less, what I posted. The law is the ministry of death and condemnation, because sinful man will not and cannot keep it.

Click to expand...

Yes, as we all fall short to the glory of God, but when we follow all the guidance of the Holy Spirit and not opting to our own passions and desire, we will not be under the Law or we'll be freed from the Law, means freed from sinning and become slaves of righteousness. (Rom 6:18)

Rom 6:18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

David1701 said:

Being free from the law also means that we are not under it for justification, sanctification or as a way of life.

Click to expand...

Yes, we're justified by our faith, not by the deeds of the Law. As by God's grace we are saved through our faith.
But faith must be shown by works, not to be saved but by being saved, just like the "saints" who will be spared from the lake of fire, the second death. (Rev 14:12, Rev 20:9,10,14)

David1701 said:

Yes.

Yes, as far as it goes; however, that omits half of the story. We are kept, by the power of God, through faith (which itself is a gift from God; and the gifts of God are irrevocable) unto salvation. Also, those who have been born again, by the Holy Spirit, are unable to practise sin, since they have been born again (1 John 1:9).

Click to expand...

Yes, as professed Christian,we had to we deny ourselves, means "to lose sight of one’s self and one’s own interests" and take up our cross, means "to be ready to encounter any extremity" and follow Christ.

Mat 16:24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.

Mat 16:24 ThenG5119 JesusG2424 saidG3004 to His disciplesG3101, "IfG1487 anyoneG5100 wishesG2309 to comeG2064 afterG3694 Me, he must denyG533 himselfG1438, and R1takeG142 up his crossG4716 and followG190 Me.

G533
ἀπαρνέομαι aparneomai
Thayer Definition:
1) to deny
1a) to affirm that one has no acquaintance or connection with someone
1b) to forget one’s self, lose sight of one’s self and one’s own interests

G4716
σταυρός stauros
27x: a stake; a cross, Mat_27:32; Mat_27:40; Mat_27:42; Php_2:8; by impl. the punishment of the cross, crucifixion, Eph_2:16; Heb_12:2; meton. the crucifixion of Christ in respect of its import, the doctrine of the cross, 1Co_1:17-18; Gal_5:11; Gal_6:12; Gal_6:14; met. to take up, or bear one’s cross, to be ready to encounter any extremity, Mat_10:38; Mat_16:24.

Hentenza said:

You have no idea who God chooses to save. You are not God nor do you know the heart of the individual person.


Nope. That is not what Jesus said.

Again, you have no idea how many people have been saved.

Ok you changed your argument here. So you are now saying that no one is actually saved today but will be saved at the judgement seat of Christ at the end of time?

Will it matter then if they were Christians that did not keep the Mosaic law because it was never given to the Christian? No sabbath keeping?

Click to expand...

What is frustrating -- clear scriptures are ignored or "worded" away.

Rev 20 is case in point: --- 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

Why? what is contrary to main stream doctrine must be ignored or "Worded' away,, verse 5 does not fit with current dogma.

current understanding: all those "Not in Christ" are in hell now or will be at death. False doctrine!

Capbook2 said:

Yes, the placement of the two tablets of stone was temporary, it was called the "ministry of death" as it was not yet written in our heart, our sinful passions and desires were always at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
But when written by God/Spirit in our heart, it is now internal, ministered by the Spirit compared to the external placement of God's Law in stone.

The old covenant had glory, but the glory of the new covenant far outshines it, just as the sun always outshines the brightest moon. Compared to the new covenant, the old covenant had no glory because of the glory that excels in the new covenant.

Here, we have to know what the old covenant/agreement was.
Before the giving of the Ten Commandments a covenant/agreement was made, a meeting of minds was established.
God said, "if you will obey my voice, you shall be My people," and the people answered "all that the Lord has spoken we will do."(Ex 19:5-8)

But that first covenant/agreement was always violated it was made faulty, that's why a second was made, the "new covenant" where God's Laws was written in their heart and the Father will be their God and they shall be God's people.

Click to expand...

I agree God's laws ARE written in our hearts. The problem is that you believe it is the ministry of death that God instilled in us. Why would God redo what didn't work? Laws dealing with morality are forever, so nine of the Ten are a part of the Law of Love: love others as I have loved you. You have to agree that the Ten were only a partial list of evil deeds man can and does instill on others. Why would God place just a partial list of all the laws that harm our fellow man? When we truly love others, we will not do any evil to anyone. I suppose you are wondering why I didn't use all Ten Commandments in my statement. It is because the fourth commandment isn't about morality; it was a ritual command given to only one nation and was temporary until Jesus. Jesus is our eternal Rest. See Col 2

Capbook2 said:

As credentialed Lexicographers defined original Bible words what it means at the time it was used, Septuagint was a Greek translation of the Old Testament but what Lexicographers defined were original Bible words, Old Testament books were written in Paleo Hebrew script, Hebrew and Aramaic. That I would prefer the definition of it from original Hebrew word.

Click to expand...

The New Testament was not written in Hebrew; it was written in Greek. I said that you need to look at the NEW TESTAMENT word translated "covenant" or "testament", in order to get the NEW COVENANT understanding of the term. If you merely look at the O.C. term, you will not get the fulness of understanding that we have in the New Covenant (e.g. the New Testament, in Christ's blood, is his last will and testament).

The Ten Commandments was the set of ten fingerwritten by God, and added no more.
If it was just an installment, could we cite a verse of other additional fingerwritten Laws of God in stone?

Click to expand...

The rest of the law was based upon the ten commandments, with greatly expanded applications and details.

Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit will led us to sin?
If not, then that proves that there are rules the Spirit would led us not to do.

Click to expand...

Of course the Holy Spirit will not lead us to sin, as I have stated repeatedly!

New Covenant life in Christ is not the Holy Spirit merely leading us to obey a set of rules! It is a living relationship. Of course he will never lead us contrary to New Covenant commands, but he also leads us in where to go, what to do, when and how to do it; he inspires us to thank and praise the Lord, to be generous, forgiving, etc..

Yes, as we all fall short to the glory of God, but when we follow all the guidance of the Holy Spirit and not opting to our own passions and desire, we will not be under the Law or we'll be freed from the Law, means freed from sinning and become slaves of righteousness. (Rom 6:18)

Click to expand...

Being freed from the law also means not trying to keep the law, in order to be righteous in God's sight. We are righteous in God's sight, because the Lord shed his blood and died on the cross, then resurrected bodily, and through faith in him. This is called "justification by faith". We sinners are declared righteous by God, because the Lord Jesus Christ is our Substitute, having born our sins and punishments on the cross, and through faith in him.

Rom 6:18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Yes, we're justified by our faith, not by the deeds of the Law. As by God's grace we are saved through our faith.
But faith must be shown by works, not to be saved but by being saved, just like the "saints" who will be spared from the lake of fire, the second death. (Rev 14:12, Rev 20:9,10,14)

Click to expand...

Real, God-given faith does result in good works (not works of the law, which would be dead works, but fruit-bearing by the Holy Spirit working in us to will and do of God's good pleasure).

Yes, as professed Christian,we had to we deny ourselves, means "to lose sight of one’s self and one’s own interests" and take up our cross, means "to be ready to encounter any extremity" and follow Christ.

Mat 16:24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.

Mat 16:24 ThenG5119 JesusG2424 saidG3004 to His disciplesG3101, "IfG1487 anyoneG5100 wishesG2309 to comeG2064 afterG3694 Me, he must denyG533 himselfG1438, and R1takeG142 up his crossG4716 and followG190 Me.

G533
ἀπαρνέομαι aparneomai
Thayer Definition:
1) to deny
1a) to affirm that one has no acquaintance or connection with someone
1b) to forget one’s self, lose sight of one’s self and one’s own interests

G4716
σταυρός stauros
27x: a stake; a cross, Mat_27:32; Mat_27:40; Mat_27:42; Php_2:8; by impl. the punishment of the cross, crucifixion, Eph_2:16; Heb_12:2; meton. the crucifixion of Christ in respect of its import, the doctrine of the cross, 1Co_1:17-18; Gal_5:11; Gal_6:12; Gal_6:14; met. to take up, or bear one’s cross, to be ready to encounter any extremity, Mat_10:38; Mat_16:24.

Click to expand...

Bob S said:

I agree God's laws ARE written in our hearts. The problem is that you believe it is the ministry of death that God instilled in us. Why would God redo what didn't work? Laws dealing with morality are forever, so nine of the Ten are a part of the Law of Love: love others as I have loved you. You have to agree that the Ten were only a partial list of evil deeds man can and does instill on others. Why would God place just a partial list of all the laws that harm our fellow man? When we truly love others, we will not do any evil to anyone. I suppose you are wondering why I didn't use all Ten Commandments in my statement. It is because the fourth commandment isn't about morality; it was a ritual command given to only one nation and was temporary until Jesus. Jesus is our eternal Rest. See Col 2

Click to expand...

""Why would God redo what didn't work?""

Bob, do you know why the Covenant failed??

Because humans refused to obey, refused to abide by the Contract they had agreed to

The Covenant was not defective it was the one side that would not live up to what they agree to.

The New C fixes the problem with humans, it gives them the Holy spirit which give us the nature of God to obey

Bob S said:

I agree God's laws ARE written in our hearts. The problem is that you believe it is the ministry of death that God instilled in us. Why would God redo what didn't work? Laws dealing with morality are forever, so nine of the Ten are a part of the Law of Love: love others as I have loved you. You have to agree that the Ten were only a partial list of evil deeds man can and does instill on others. Why would God place just a partial list of all the laws that harm our fellow man? When we truly love others, we will not do any evil to anyone. I suppose you are wondering why I didn't use all Ten Commandments in my statement. It is because the fourth commandment isn't about morality; it was a ritual command given to only one nation and was temporary until Jesus. Jesus is our eternal Rest. See Col 2

Click to expand...

Christ's Bride said:

What is frustrating -- clear scriptures are ignored or "worded" away.

Click to expand...

Or merely just misinterpreted.

Christ's Bride said:

Rev 20 is case in point: --- 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

Why? what is contrary to main stream doctrine must be ignored or "Worded' away,, verse 5 does not fit with current dogma.

current understanding: all those "Not in Christ" are in hell now or will be at death. False doctrine!

Click to expand...

Assumptions and no exegesis. The souls of the saved are in heaven (v. 4) but their bodies are dead. They are resurrected (the soul is joined to their new body). That is what coming to life means. The soul is always alive but the body is not.

“Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their foreheads and on their hands; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20‬:‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

These are the wicked. If the souls of the saved were alive, as verse 4 clearly states, then the souls of the wicked are equally alive but in a different place which you can call it hell, hades, Sheol, Gehenna, prison or whatever floats your boat. They remain dead because their physical bodies have not been resurrected yet.

“The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20‬:‭5‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hentenza said:

Or merely just misinterpreted.

Assumptions and no exegesis. The souls of the saved are in heaven (v. 4) but their bodies are dead. They are resurrected (the soul is joined to their new body). That is what coming to life means. The soul is always alive but the body is not.

“Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their foreheads and on their hands; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20‬:‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Revelation 20:4 (NASB2020) - Then I saw thrones, and they sat on | YouVersion

Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and tho

bible.com

These are the wicked. If the souls of the saved were alive, as verse 4 clearly states, then the souls of the wicked are equally alive but in a different place which you can call it hell, hades, Sheol, Gehenna, prison or whatever floats your boat. They remain dead because their physical bodies have not been resurrected yet.

“The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20‬:‭5‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Revelation 20:5 (NASB2020) - The rest of the dead did not come t | YouVersion

The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

bible.com

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sorry we must be reading different books

Christ's Bride said:

sorry we must be reading different books

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It seems to me that you are stuck in a certain interpretation and any one that disagrees with your interpretation is reading a different book. Maybe you should consider actually addressing the content of the post and maybe be part of the exchange of ideas or the debate.

Be blessed