UN says Hamas police executed Palestinians in Gaza

johansen · Sunday at 3:42 PM

if you want a disturbing book to read, its "out of the mountains" by dave kilcullen.

Amazon.com: Out of the mountains: 9780190230968: Kilcullen: Books

www.amazon.com

Both Hamas and Israel use "textbook" methods to maintain their power and control, in barbaric methods you may not be able to imagine, but they are well described in that book. yes, rape is used as a form of demoralization and control in many parts of the world. and worse. (the book is not about israel or hamas)

as a strategic policy, Israel actually supports hamas in order to keep the government of Palestine "radical" to justify their arguments for destroying it.

Which side is actually worse, hard to say in my opinion, all i will tell you is my MIL hosted a Palestinian dual Israeli citizen, a christian girl 17 yrs old, and she got here just a couple weeks before oct7 and didn't have any contact with her family for a few weeks....

She has seen children killed by Israeli snipers who use them for target practice.

so with regard to oct7, israel turning a blind eye to it knowing something was going to happen..
their over the top responce, isn't much worse actually than what America did to Irac and afganistan after the Saudi's blew up a couple buildings.

so.. we really shouldn't be complaining, or supporting either side.

Delvianna · Sunday at 3:48 PM

johansen said:
if you want a disturbing book to read, its "out of the mountains" by dave kilcullen.

Amazon.com: Out of the mountains: 9780190230968: Kilcullen: Books

Amazon.com: Out of the mountains: 9780190230968: Kilcullen: Books

www.amazon.com

Both Hamas and Israel use "textbook" methods to maintain their power and control, in barbaric methods you may not be able to imagine, but they are well described in that book. yes, rape is used as a form of demoralization and control in many parts of the world. and worse. (the book is not about israel or hamas)

as a strategic policy, Israel actually supports hamas in order to keep the government of Palestine "radical" to justify their arguments for destroying it.

Which side is actually worse, hard to say in my opinion, all i will tell you is my MIL hosted a Palestinian dual Israeli citizen, a christian girl 17 yrs old, and she got here just a couple weeks before oct7 and didn't have any contact with her family for a few weeks....

She has seen children killed by Israeli snipers who use them for target practice.

Thanks for the link. I think though, that any issue as far as this kind of morally reprehensible act, should be considered in a court of law because there is a lot of false information and propaganda going around on both sides. I know the ICJ are currently investigating Israel on claims of genocide after South Africa initiated it. I'm interested in seeing what their verdict is when they give it.

johansen · Sunday at 3:54 PM

Delvianna said:
Thanks for the link. I think though, that any issue as far as this kind of morally reprehensible act, should be considered in a court of law because there is a lot of false information and propaganda going around on both sides. I know the ICJ are currently investigating Israel on claims of genocide after South Africa initiated it. I'm interested in seeing what their verdict is when they give it.

the ICJ is useless and will do nothing.
Even if Israel detonated an atomic bomb the world would not clean up the mess.

They would look the other way until the damages reach the multiple trillions of dollars elsewhere. the world powers absolutely do not care about the fate of 2-10 million poor people, the only person that cares is God, there are many Christian palestinians there who can trace their lineage back to Jesus and further back than that. they have more claim to the land than the average ashkenazie Jew does.

Delvianna · Sunday at 3:56 PM

johansen said:
the ICJ is useless and will do nothing.
Even if israel detonated an atomic bomb the world would not clean up the mess.

they would look the other way until the damages reach the multiple trillions of dollars.

Theyre literally investigating. They accepted the case. I wouldnt say thats doing "nothing".

johansen · Sunday at 4:00 PM

Delvianna said:
Theyre literally investigating. They accepted the case. I wouldnt say thats doing "nothing".

investigating.. themselves?

Delvianna · Sunday at 4:21 PM

johansen said:
investigating.. themselves?

Huh? The ICJ is ruled by the UN. So no, not investigating themselves.

Aussie52 · Sunday at 5:30 PM

Delvianna said:
I agree that just criticizing the government is not antisemitic. But the issue isn't criticism, its the double standards, collective blame and unproven accusations being labeled as fact. So holding Israel to a standard that no other nation is held to, attributing every negative event to the Jews, or treating accusations as proven facts before they have even been legally established, is why I'm saying antisemitic.

But you appear to be deliberately oblivious to the fact of the thousands killed in Gaza by Israel and the harassment and displacement of Palestinians in the West Bank that is seen on TV news almost every evening. How can that be?

Delvianna · Sunday at 8:02 PM

Aussie52 said:
But you appear to be deliberately oblivious to the fact of the thousands killed in Gaza by Israel and the harassment and displacement of Palestinians in the West Bank that is seen on TV news almost every evening. How can that be?

You're assuming I'm unaware of any suffering in Gaza or the West Bank simply because I'm objecting to how accusations are being made. Those are not the same thing. I am fully aware that thousands of people have died and that there are serious allegations regarding Israel's conduct. But the question is whether accusations are being presented fairly, consistently, and as proven facts when many of them remain disputed.

My point was specifically about double standards, collective blame, and treating allegations as established conclusions before courts have reached final judgments. Nothing in your reply addresses that point. You seem to be arguing that because suffering exists, any criticism of Israel is automatically justified and cannot be biased or antisemitic. A person can recognize Palestinian suffering while also recognizing that blaming Jews collectively, assigning all responsibility to one side, or making accusations as unquestionable facts is the problem.

I also love, how the original post is "UN says Hamas police executed Palestinians in Gaza" and now we're on the topic of essentially, it's all the Jews fault and why aren't you blaming the Jews.... unreal...

Aussie52 · Sunday at 8:46 PM

Delvianna said:
You're assuming I'm unaware of any suffering in Gaza or the West Bank simply because I'm objecting to how accusations are being made. Those are not the same thing. I am fully aware that thousands of people have died and that there are serious allegations regarding Israel's conduct. But the question is whether accusations are being presented fairly, consistently, and as proven facts when many of them remain disputed.

My point was specifically about double standards, collective blame, and treating allegations as established conclusions before courts have reached final judgments. Nothing in your reply addresses that point. You seem to be arguing that because suffering exists, any criticism of Israel is automatically justified and cannot be biased or antisemitic. A person can recognize Palestinian suffering while also recognizing that blaming Jews collectively, assigning all responsibility to one side, or making accusations as unquestionable facts is the problem.

I also love, how the original post is "UN says Hamas police executed Palestinians in Gaza" and now we're on the topic of essentially, it's all the Jews fault and why aren't you blaming the Jews.... unreal...

So, the fact that
1. The Israelis admit to killing the Palestinians in Gaza, doesn't count.
2. The fact that we have on film the Israelis killing, doesn't count.
3. The fact that overseas workers are eyewitnesses to the killing, doesn't count.

Who is the one showing extreme bias?

Delvianna · Sunday at 8:48 PM

Aussie52 said:
So, the fact that
1. The Israelis admit to killing the Palestinians in Gaza, doesn't count.
2. The fact that we have on film the Israelis killing, doesn't count.
3. The fact that overseas workers are eyewitnesses to the killing, doesn't count.

Who is the one showing extreme bias?

Apparently I can't have a straight conversation with you if you're just going to continue to put words in my mouth. Have a good night.

Aussie52 · Sunday at 9:03 PM

Delvianna said:
Apparently I can't have a straight conversation with you if you're just going to continue to put words in my mouth. Have a good night.

Read your own posts. I am just highlighting the essence of what you have written.

Delvianna · Sunday at 9:03 PM

Aussie52 said:
Read your own posts. I am just highlighting the essence of what you have written.

No you're sticking words in my mouth constantly. And I'm not going to forever continually correct you on it. So again, have a good night.

Aussie52 · Sunday at 9:10 PM

Delvianna said:
No you're sticking words in my mouth constantly. And I'm not going to forever continually correct you on it. So again, have a good night.

The essence of what you are saying is, until such time as there an official verdict from something like ICJ, no blame can be apportioned to Israel for the Gaza killings. Right?
That is what I am disputing.

UN says Hamas police executed Palestinians in Gaza

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