what does this verse mean?

David1701 · Thursday at 11:16 AM

whatdoesthisversemean said:
not not saved but in the process of salvation!

eph 2 refers to the general redemption when Christ quickend or brought us to life in grace, not our personal salvation!

To have eternal salvation we must abide in Christ and bear fruit (Lk 3:9 Jn 15:1-6) and endure to the end (mt 10:22 rev 2:10) and be judged faithful then we enter into eternal salvation!

1 cor 13:13 three are eternal faith hope and charity

saved or an assurance of being saved is a sin against the virtue of hope!

hope for salvation? no one hopes for that which they already possess!

thks

1 Thess. 1:4,5 (KJV)
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

whatdoesthisversemean · Thursday at 1:00 PM

David1701 said:
1 Thess. 1:4,5 (KJV)
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

assurance that the gospel is of God!

eternal life refers to grace. ot eternal salvation

gal 5:4 fallen from grace

why not say fallen from salvation?

cos we only have union by grace that we increase and can lose by sin until death and judgment no eternal salvation

thks

David1701 · Thursday at 1:28 PM

whatdoesthisversemean said:
assurance that the gospel is of God!

eternal life refers to grace. ot eternal salvation

gal 5:4 fallen from grace

why not say fallen from salvation?

cos we only have union by grace that we increase and can lose by sin until death and judgment no eternal salvation

thks

If you want to declare that you do not have eternal salvation, that's up to you; but I have eternal salvation, and praise God for it!

timothyu · Thursday at 1:41 PM

The world of man was offered salvation. Not the same as having it. It requires allegiance and repentance (change).

whatdoesthisversemean · Thursday at 3:36 PM

David1701 said:
If you want to declare that you do not have eternal salvation, that's up to you; but I have eternal salvation, and praise God for it!

then you believe salvation can be lost?

thks

timothyu · Thursday at 3:48 PM

whatdoesthisversemean said:
then you believe salvation can be lost?

There are those inside the city, and those outside the city, their distance from the city determined by their willingness to follow the will of God now. He is with the people in the new Kingdom as only ruler, so they will have no choice but to learn and comply.

Chaplain Jim · Thursday at 3:49 PM

John 10:28-30 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My father are one."

Aussie52 · Thursday at 3:57 PM

Chaplain Jim said:
John 10:28-30 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My father are one."

Like most OSAS advocates you leave out the conditions of that security. My sheep hear my voice and follow Me. Our security in Christ is 'conditional', we must be hearing His voice and following Him. To not do that, one loses that security and one's salvation.

Chaplain Jim · Thursday at 4:06 PM

Aussie52 said:
Like most OSAS advocates you leave out the conditions of that security. My sheep hear my voice and follow Me. Our security in Christ is 'conditional', we must be hearing His voice and following Him. To not do that, one loses that security and one's salvation.

I'm just a dude that had a serious encounter with Jesus on August 12, 1983, that set me free from ten years of chronic alcoholism. I don't pigeon hole fellow Brothers and Sisters, In Christ with OSAS designations. If this is your service to God, then may the Lord bless you on your Christian Forums ministry.

Chaplain Jim · Thursday at 4:08 PM

Chaplain Jim said:
John 10:28-30 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My father are one."

Lord, I love all of word. Holy Spirit, thank you for helping me to glean from Your word.

David1701 · Thursday at 8:26 PM

whatdoesthisversemean said:
then you believe salvation can be lost?

thks

No, absolutely not! I believe in the preservation and perseverance of the saints. Salvation is of the Lord, not of man's will or works.

Good works are evidence of salvation, not the reason why God saves us. Those who do not bear good fruit, show that they were never saved, no matter what they may claim.

David1701 · Thursday at 9:37 PM

Aussie52 said:
Like most OSAS advocates you leave out the conditions of that security. My sheep hear my voice and follow Me. Our security in Christ is 'conditional', we must be hearing His voice and following Him. To not do that, one loses that security and one's salvation.

That's not a conditional statement; it's a description of his sheep.

whatdoesthisversemean · Friday at 10:59 AM

Chaplain Jim said:
John 10:28-30 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My father are one."

thanks for helping, your insights are appreciated
there are many verses that refer to eternal life and in many ways

sometimes it refers to the life of grace. example Jn 10:10

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

sometimes to eternal salvation in glory. example mk 10:30

But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

thks

whatdoesthisversemean · Friday at 1:20 PM

David1701 said:
No, absolutely not! I believe in the preservation and perseverance of the saints. Salvation is of the Lord, not of man's will or works.

Good works are evidence of salvation, not the reason why God saves us. Those who do not bear good fruit, show that they were never saved, no matter what they may claim.

where is this in scripture?

thks

Chaplain Jim · Friday at 1:32 PM

whatdoesthisversemean said:
thanks for helping, your insights are appreciated
there are many verses that refer to eternal life and in many ways

sometimes it refers to the life of grace. example Jn 10:10

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

sometimes to eternal salvation in glory. example mk 10:30

But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

thks

May God, Mightily bless you and your loved ones, In Jesus's Name.

whatdoesthisversemean · Friday at 1:34 PM

David1701 said:
That's not a conditional statement; it's a description of his sheep.

what about the big "IF"?

Conditional perseverance

))

ex 20 mt 19:17 1 tim 6:14 keep the commandments
deut 6:5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God within all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
ez 36:25-27 ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Mk 13:13 mt 10:22 endure to the end
Matt 7:14 narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life
Matt 16:24 If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Matt 24:13 endure to the end
Jn 3:16 continues in believing
Jn 15:4 abide in christ
Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing
Jn 15:10 keep my commandments
Rom 1:5 obedience
Rom 8:13-17 but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 11:22 if thou continue in his goodness:
1 cor 7:24 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1 cor 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1 cor 13:13 (3) three things are eternal; faith, hope and charity and the greatest is charity.
2 thes 1:4 faith & patience
heb 6:12 faith and patience inherit the promises.
Gal 5:2-4 fallen
Gal 5:25 if we live in the spirit
Col 1:21-23 If ye continue in the faith
Col 2:5 steadfast
2 Tim 2:3 endure hardship
2 Tim 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
1 pet 2:20 if we suffer patiently
1 Jn 2:24-28 grace must abide in us
1 Jn 3:6 abideth in Him (Christ)
Heb 3:4-6 if we hold fast
Heb 6:4-9 if they fall away
Heb 12:7 if ye endure
Heb 12:22-25 if we turn away
James 1:12 endureth

1 John 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 Timothy 5:12
Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

mk 13:13 mt 10:22 mt 24:13
He who endures to the end shall be saved.

rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Perseverance is conditional and requires our participation and faithfulness!

jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

thks

David1701 · Friday at 4:33 PM

whatdoesthisversemean said:
what about the big "IF"?

Conditional perseverance))

ex 20 mt 19:17 1 tim 6:14 keep the commandments
deut 6:5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God within all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
ez 36:25-27 ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Mk 13:13 mt 10:22 endure to the end
Matt 7:14 narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life
Matt 16:24 If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Matt 24:13 endure to the end
Jn 3:16 continues in believing
Jn 15:4 abide in christ
Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing
Jn 15:10 keep my commandments
Rom 1:5 obedience
Rom 8:13-17 but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 11:22 if thou continue in his goodness:
1 cor 7:24 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1 cor 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1 cor 13:13 (3) three things are eternal; faith, hope and charity and the greatest is charity.
2 thes 1:4 faith & patience
heb 6:12 faith and patience inherit the promises.
Gal 5:2-4 fallen
Gal 5:25 if we live in the spirit
Col 1:21-23 If ye continue in the faith
Col 2:5 steadfast
2 Tim 2:3 endure hardship
2 Tim 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
1 pet 2:20 if we suffer patiently
1 Jn 2:24-28 grace must abide in us
1 Jn 3:6 abideth in Him (Christ)
Heb 3:4-6 if we hold fast
Heb 6:4-9 if they fall away
Heb 12:7 if ye endure
Heb 12:22-25 if we turn away
James 1:12 endureth

1 John 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 Timothy 5:12
Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

mk 13:13 mt 10:22 mt 24:13
He who endures to the end shall be saved.

rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Perseverance is conditional and requires our participation and faithfulness!

jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

thks

I'm obviously not going to spend hours answering your wall of verses. Please pick one or two, with proper exegesis, explaining why you think that salvation is conditional upon our works, and is, therefore, not by grace through faith, thanks.

David1701 · Friday at 4:57 PM

whatdoesthisversemean said:
where is this in scripture?

thks

1) Salvation is of the Lord.

Jonah 2:9 (A.V.)
But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.

2) It is not of man's will or works

Rom. 9:15,16
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

3) Preservation/Perseverance of the Saints

1 Pet. 1:4,5
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

John 6:37-39
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

1 John 3:9 (E.M.T.V.) No-one who has been born of God practises sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

4) Good Works are Evidence of Salvation

Matt. 7:17-20
17 Thus every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 Every tree not producing good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire.
20 Consequently, by their fruits you shall know them.

Matt. 13:23
But the seed sown on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty."

5) God Does not Save Us because of our Good Works

Eph. 2:8
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, so that no one may boast.

6) Those Who do not Bear Good Fruit Show that they Were Never Saved

Matt. 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name we cast out demons, and in Your name we did many mighty works?’
23 "And then I will confess to them, 'I never knew you! Depart from Me, you workers of iniquity!'

Compare verse 23 with the following verses.

John 17:2,3
2 just as You have given Him authority over all flesh, so that He will give eternal life to all You have given Him.
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

com7fy8 · 2026-06-14T12:07:44-0500

"What is grace?" It depends on what you mean by "grace". Tell me what you mean, and I can define that

lolololololol

One thing I have learned is that God's grace is favor for how Jesus is humble.

And God's working grace works in favor of changing us into the image of Jesus.

whatdoesthisversemean · 2026-06-15T08:14:30-0500

David1701 said:
If you want to declare that you do not have eternal salvation, that's up to you; but I have eternal salvation, and praise God for it!

declaring that you have salvation by faith alone rejects the apostolic faith of nicea, Christ will come to Judge the living and the dead!
and 1 cor 4:5 thks

what does this verse mean?

God is good!

The way, the truth, & the life!

God is good!

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The way, the truth, & the life!

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Wesleyan-Arminian.

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God is good!

God is good!

The way, the truth, & the life!

The way, the truth, & the life!

Well-Known Member

The way, the truth, & the life!

God is good!

God is good!

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The way, the truth, & the life!

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