Must I keep Saturday as a day of scrupulous rest from worldly works?

There is no Saturday or Sunday in the bible. There is only the 7th day which is based on the New Moon.

No one can keep the Sabbath anyway as we don't have the temple in Jerusalem and can't do the required sacrifices.

Xeno.of.athens said:

I am not bound to keep Saturday as a day of scrupulous rest, because the Sabbath commandment—while morally permanent in its call to worship and to set aside time for God—was fulfilled and transformed in Christ

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1. Not one text says that any one of the Ten commandments were edited/modified changed because of Christ's obedience to all ten
2. Christ perfectly fulfilled all Ten, this did not delete/edit/change them
3. Not one text in the NT says "we now observe Sunday (week day one) each week as the Sabbath"
4. Worship and gospel preaching services 'every Sabbath" Acts 18:4 in the synagogue so they most certainly were not using the term "Sabbath" to mean "Sunday" or 'week day 1'

Xeno.of.athens said:

, who rose on the first day of the week (Matt 28:1; Mark 16:2; John 20:1)

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true

Xeno.of.athens said:

, leading the apostles and the early Church to gather on “the Lord’s Day” (Rev 1:10; Acts 20:7; 1 Cor 16:2).

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Not one of those texts says "They met every week day 1"
Not one says "The Sabbath is on week day 1"

1 Cor 16 says that "each one is to lay by himself" some funds on every week day one.

Acts 20 is a one time meeting called on the occasion of Paul's farewell speech.
That would be a great place to ass "hey we have never said this before but it turns out that week day one is the Lord's day, our new updated Sabbath practice"

Rev 1:10 does not say "Week day one is the Lord's Day"

So then no "leading the apostles and early NT church to declare that the Lord's Day is now changed to be week day one"

Xeno.of.athens said:

The Church teaches that the ceremonial precepts of the Old Covenant, including the specific legal observance of the seventh‑day rest, were shadows pointing to Christ and are no longer binding as law (Col 2:16–17), whereas the moral heart of the commandment—worship of God and rest from servile labour—remains and is fulfilled in the Sunday

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Yep there is a church that teaches that.

But if you want to see "the moral heart of the commandment—worship of God and rest from servile labour—remains and is fulfilled in the Sunday" you will not find it in the Bible

Xeno.of.athens said:

a Catholic keeps the Third Commandment not by Saturday observance but by sanctifying Sunday in obedience to the apostolic practice and the Church’s authority

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Ex 20:8-11 and Gen 2:2-3 mentions the fact that God Himself sanctified the seventh day.
Is 66:23 says that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth: "from one Sabbath to another shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

S.O.J.I.A. said:

There is no Saturday or Sunday in the bible. There is only the 7th day which is based on the New Moon.

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seventh day in the Bible is not based on "New moon" according to Gen 1 and the Jews to this very day know that such is not the case

Luke 24 there is "The first day of the week" which follows what Luke calls "the Sabbath".
Ex 20:10 the Sabbath is the 7th day.

S.O.J.I.A. said:

No one can keep the Sabbath anyway as we don't have the temple in Jerusalem and can't do the required sacrifices.

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The Sabbath commandment does not say you need a temple to keep the Sabbath. Take a minute to read Ex 20:8-11
Lev 23:2-3 says the Sabbath is a day of holy convocation... and there was no Temple at that time either

Gen 2:2-3 says the Sabbath was sanctified/set Apart for holy Use on the 7th day of creation week.

No text in OT or NT says the Sabbath cannot be kept

1. Not one text says that any one of the Ten commandments were edited/modified changed because of Christ's obedience to all ten
2. Christ perfectly fulfilled all Ten, this did not delete/edit/change them
3. Not one text in the NT says "we now observe Sunday (week day one) each week as the Sabbath"
4. Worship and gospel preaching services 'every Sabbath" Acts 18:4 in the synagogue so they most certainly were not using the term "Sabbath" to mean "Sunday" or 'week day 1'

Not one of those texts says "They met every week day 1"
Not one says "The Sabbath is on week day 1"

1 Cor 16 says that "each one is to lay by himself" some funds on every week day one.
Acts 20 is a one time meeting called on the occasion of Paul's farewell speech.

Acts 20 would be a great place to ass "hey we have never said this before but it turns out that week day one is the Lord's day, our new updated Sabbath practice"

Rev 1:10 does not say "Week day one is the Lord's Day"
So then no "leading the apostles and early NT church to declare that the Lord's Day is now changed to be week day one"

But if you want to see "the moral heart of the commandment—worship of God and rest from servile labour—remains and is fulfilled in the Sunday" you will not find it in the Bible

Ex 20:8-11 and Gen 2:2-3 mentions the fact that God Himself sanctified the seventh day.
Is 66:23 says that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth: "from one Sabbath to another shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

Xeno.of.athens said:

A Seventh‑day Adventist may assert these points sincerely

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indeed because we have Bibles and we can read.

I am only stating what is actually in the text.
This is the easy part.

Xeno.of.athens said:

the claim that “not one text says any of the Ten Commandments were changed” overlooks the apostolic teaching

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apostolic teaching recorded in the NT text is sufficient to prove my statements above are true.

Xeno.of.athens said:

that the ceremonial form of the Law—including the calendar of holy days—was fulfilled and therefore no longer binding as law upon Christians

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The Sabbath is not ceremonial law it is moral law and so it is included in the TEN.

Even Dies Domini flatly admits that fact about the Sabbath commandment for all mankind

Xeno.of.athens said:

: “Let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food or drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath; these are only a shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ” (Col 2:16–17).

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Col 2 speaks of "sabbath days" which are the annual ceremonial days of Lev 23 not the Ten Commandments.

Xeno.of.athens said:

Christ’s perfect obedience does not freeze the Old Covenant in place

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Christ's perfect obedience does not delete "do not take God's name in vain" or "honor your father and mother"
They still exist unchanged
The Sabbath itself does into the New Earth as God says in Is 66:23

Xeno.of.athens said:

the apostles respond by gathering on “the first day of the week” for the Eucharist (Acts 20:7)

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Not one text in the Bible says they gathered every week on the first day of the week. Not even Acts 20 says it.
This is just a part of that "reading exercise" it is right there in the text.

Acts 20 does not say "we gather every first day of the week because that is our practice". It simply is not there.

On the Sabbath day in Acts 13 gentiles ask Paul for "more gospel preaching, it is scheduled for "the NEXT Sabbath" instead of "tomorrow" because there was no sunday service practice known to Paul at that time.

At that point almost the entire gentile town turns out to hear it.

Xeno.of.athens said:

and by directing Christians to order their giving on that same day (1 Cor 16:2).

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1 Cor 16 does not say to "give an offering every first day of the week"
So you don't quote it.

It says for each person to lay some funds by himself on each first day of the week

Xeno.of.athens said:

These texts do not rename Sunday “the Sabbath”

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They just all it "week day 1"

Xeno.of.athens said:

—because the Church does not teach a mere transfer of the Jewish Sabbath—but they do show the apostolic pattern of Lord’s Day worship grounded in the Resurrection (cf. Rev 1:10).

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Not one of those texts say "it is our custom to meet every week day 1"
Not one says "We meet every week day one for worship of some sort"

Xeno.of.athens said:

The moral core of the commandment—worship of God and rest from servile labour—remains

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Even you admit the Sabbath commandment remains in the moral law of God. The Catholic church does not approve of breaking what they call the 3rd commandment.

Xeno.of.athens said:

, but the day and mode of observance belong to the New Covenant,

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The new Covenant is stated verbatim in Jer 31:31-34 and repeated again in Heb 8. Not one word in it says to change the day for Sabbath

Xeno.of.athens said:

Second, the appeal to Genesis 2:2–3 and Isaiah 66:23 does not prove perpetual obligation to the seventh‑day Sabbath

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Gen 2 explicitly states that it is the 7th day and the Sabbath commandment in vs 11 points directly to Gen 2:2-3
Is 66:23 points directly to the NEW Earth for the keeping of the Sabbath by all mankind. Which Rev 21 tells us in long after the cross

Xeno.of.athens said:

.Thus, the Church, exercising the authority Christ gave her (Matt 16:19; Luke 10:16), sanctifies Sunday, the day of the Resurrection, as the weekly memorial of the new creation. A Christian therefore keeps the Third Commandment not by observing the Mosaic Sabbath, but by participating in the Eucharistic worship of the Lord’s Day, which is the apostolic and universal practice of the Church from the first century onward.

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It is true that tradition came along sometime after the first century and made some changes/edits to the moral law of God

in Mark 7:7-13 Jesus explicitly addresses the case of supposedly infallible tradition coming along long after the fact and tweaking / editing one of the Ten Commandments.

Xeno.of.athens said:

I am not bound to keep Saturday as a day of scrupulous rest, because the Sabbath commandment—while morally permanent in its call to worship and to set aside time for God—was fulfilled and transformed in Christ, who rose on the first day of the week (Matt 28:1; Mark 16:2; John 20:1), leading the apostles and the early Church to gather on “the Lord’s Day” (Rev 1:10; Acts 20:7; 1 Cor 16:2). The Church teaches that the ceremonial precepts of the Old Covenant, including the specific legal observance of the seventh‑day rest, were shadows pointing to Christ and are no longer binding as law (Col 2:16–17), whereas the moral heart of the commandment—worship of God and rest from servile labour—remains and is fulfilled in the Sunday Eucharist, the memorial of the new creation and the Resurrection. Thus, a Catholic keeps the Third Commandment not by Saturday observance but by sanctifying Sunday in obedience to the apostolic practice and the Church’s authority given by Christ (Matt 16:18–19; Luke 10:16), which safeguards the proper understanding of Scripture and its fulfilment in the New Covenant.

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Only 1% of Christianity says otherwise.

BobRyan said:

It is true that tradition came along sometime after the first century and made some changes/edits to the moral law of God

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This is a straw man, since the moral law of God was clarified in the New Testament regarding the Sabbath, which had been being over-observed by the Jews, to the point that they made the serious legalistic error of assuming God Himself (whose identity as Christ our True God they were not convinced of, rather, only some of the twelve understood it at that point, and only intermittently) could sin by healing the sick on the Sabbath or gathering food on the Sabbath. Additionally Galatians 3:15-5:15 makes it clear that the Law itself is not the means of our salvation, and this aligns with the minimal requirements placed upon Gentile Christians by the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15.

What is more, it is also factually incorrect to suggest that the priority of Sunday worship only began after the first century, since we we have first century texts such as the Didache (written around the same time as Revelation, 70-90 AD) and also the Epistles of St. Ignatius written around the turn of the second century (by which time St. Ignatius had been bishop of Antioch for some time) which confirm Sunday worship, which was also seen in the New Testament on multiple occasions, such as on the Resurrection of our Lord, on Pentecost (the Holy Spirit descended at 9 AM on Pentecost) and on other occasions. Jews worshipped daily, and Christians maintained the practice, but the First Day became greatly elevated in importance because of God arising from the dead on that day and descending on the Apostles, in the person of the Incarnate Logos and the Holy Spirit respectively.

in Mark 7:7-13 Jesus explicitly addresses the case of supposedly infallible tradition coming along long after the fact and tweaking / editing one of the Ten Commandments.

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This is also logically fallacious, a red herring, since Mark 7 refers specifically to the tradition of the Pharisees, and what is more, if we look at the criticism of the Pharisees as a whole, the criticism is due to excessive legalism and in many cases resolves around over-literal interpretation of the Sabbath rest.

It is also eisegesis, since we know from 1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 2 Thessalonians 2:37 and other texts (Galatians 1:8-9, Matthew 16:18) that there is a legitimate Apostolic Tradition distinct from the false traditions of men decried by the same Apostle who documented the Holy Tradition in Colossians 2:8-16, and we also know the Church cannot fall into the kind of apostasy that would be required for such a moral error to have occurred throughout all Christian churches between the time of the Council of Nicaea and the appearance in the relatively recent past of Sabbatarian churches that affirm the Council of Nicaea. And we can see the Holy Tradition in effect at Nicaea, defending the doctrine of the Holy Trinity against Arianism, and again at the local Greek Orthodox council in Constantinople in 381, which was later adopted as an ecumenical council by the other chuches, but which unlike Nicaea, Ephesus and other ecumenical synods, had no representation from the Roman or Latin speaking church or even the Syriac speaking church; indeed St. Epiphanios of Salamis in Cyprus wasn’t even present, but that council proved vital, for it was there that the deity and personhood of the Holy Spirit were affirmed and semi-Arianism was rejected. And the third ecumenical council in Ephesus likewise proved vital in rejecting Nestorianism and Pelagianism, the related ideas that separate the man Jesus from the divine Logos and suggest that men can save themselves by merely following in the example set by Christ our God.

And additionally we see the principle of the Holy Tradition at work in the 39th Paschal Encyclical of St. Athanasius, which established the definitive New Testament canon in the Church of Alexandria, which was swiftly adopted by Rome, Constantinople, Jerusalem, Antioch, Cyprus and the other churches, so that by the sixth century everyone except the East Syriacs had the 27 books and the incidence of New Testament apocrypha had decreased substantially.

BobRyan said:

2. Christ perfectly fulfilled all Ten, this did not delete/edit/change them

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Our Lord rephrased them as “love your neighbor as yourself and love God above all others” while requiring several new things, of which one was expressly framed as a new commandment “that you should love each other even as I have loved you.” And additional requirements Christ established included one Baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost as the normal form of salvation and the washing away of sins, and the consumption of His Body and Blood in the Eucharist (John ch 6, Matthew 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-25).

And St. Paul in his Epistle to the Galatians and in his Epistle to the Romans makes it clear that our salvation does not come from adhering to the Law but is the result of the grace of the Holy Spirit.

Servus said:

Only 1% of Christianity says otherwise.

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Indeed, and most of that 1% refrain from criticizing the 99% of Christians who adhere to the traditional belief.

For instance, while I do not believe adherence to the Sabbath is neccessary for salvation, i worship every Sabbath, but for a small minority this isn’t enough, because I’m a member of a church which also celebrates the Divine Liturgy every Sunday in addition to worshipping every Sabbath (with the Divine Liturgy and also Vespers - the Sabbath ends and the Lord’s Day begins at the end of Vespers). This is upsetting given (a) the severe persecution we suffered under Communism and Islamist extremism, and (b) the absence of any instruction anywhere in Scripture to not worship on the First Day.

The Liturgist said:

Indeed, and most of that 1% refrain from criticizing the 99% of Christians who adhere to the traditional belief.

For instance, while I do not believe adherence to the Sabbath is neccessary for salvation, i worship every Sabbath, but for a small minority this isn’t enough, because I’m a member of a church which also celebrates the Divine Liturgy every Sunday in addition to worshipping every Sabbath (with the Divine Liturgy and also Vespers - the Sabbath ends and the Lord’s Day begins at the end of Vespers). This is upsetting given (a) the severe persecution we suffered under Communism and Islamist extremism, and (b) the absence of any instruction anywhere in Scripture to not worship on the First Day.

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I've read Seventh-day Adventists on CF implying those who don't acknowledge or observe the Seventh-day sabbath they way they do are not saved. That they are the chosen remnant who will be saved as opposed to the rest.

Xeno.of.athens said:

Seventh‑day Adventist (SDA) teaching does include a remnant doctrine, but official sources do not teach that all non‑Sabbath‑keepers are automatically lost. The SDA Fundamental Beliefs state that the “remnant” are those who “keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus,” but also affirm that “the universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ,” not only Adventists. This means Adventist doctrine allows for sincere Christians outside Adventism to be saved, even if they do not observe the seventh‑day Sabbath.

Published SDA sources consistently avoid saying non‑Sabbath‑keepers are unsaved. They teach instead that, in the final crisis, Sabbath observance will become a test of loyalty, but that judgment is ultimately God’s, not the church’s. Official SDA doctrine does not teach that salvation is denied to all who fail to observe the seventh‑day Sabbath.

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Like I said, it was implied by some SDA on CF. When pressed to give a direct yes or no answer to it, they declined to do so. A former SDA pastor told me members are all over the place as to what they know, believe and teach.

Considering Saturday Sabbatarian Christians literally only consist of 1% of Christians, it gets more attention than it should in my opinion.

Xeno.of.athens said:

I am not bound to keep Saturday as a day of scrupulous rest ...

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"Saturday" is not in technicality the "Sabbath" of the LORD God (JEHOVAH Elohiym). Some use it in a common colloquial sense, but it is not technically accurate.

"Saturday" is literally on a differing calendrical time, namely Roman time - midnight to midnight.

"Sabbath" is literally on a differing calendrical time, namely God's Creation time - sunset to sunset.

The two 'days' overlap to be sure, but are not always congruous in their timing.

So, you (and all), never have to keep "Saturday" "as a day of scrupulous rest" since God never, in scripture, ever made it such, but only made the 7th day, His Sabbath (rest), such (Gen. 2:1-3; Exo. 20:8-11, &c). So, please, let's start with a true foundational position and not start with conflated days.

See - The 7th Day The Sabbath - The Rest Of His Eternal Story (by Aaron Earnest) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Xeno.of.athens said:

So, no first, second, third and so forth days? Really?

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Definitely not what I said.

Xeno.of.athens said:

... “the Lord’s Day” (Rev 1:10 ...

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The Lord's day, in Rev. 1:10, citing, by inspiration of the Holy Ghost, through John, from Isa. 58:13, in contextual parallelism and construct, and is not a reference to the 'first [day] of the week', but rather to the 7th day of the week, or God's holy day, the Sabbath. See for yourself:

The LORD's day - WHAT IS THE LORD' S DAY REVELATION 1 vs 10 - Handout (Double Sided Thin Margin) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
or here - Single Page (Dual Sided) Charts - Prophecy Print Outs : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
or here - The 7th Day The Sabbath - The Rest Of His Eternal Story (by Aaron Earnest) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

As for Act. 20:7, never called the "Lord's day" in scripture - see The 7th Day The Sabbath - The Rest Of His Eternal Story (by Aaron Earnest) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

As for 1 Cor. 16:2, never called the "Lord's day" in scripture - see The 7th Day The Sabbath - The Rest Of His Eternal Story (by Aaron Earnest) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Xeno.of.athens said:

... Christ, who rose on the first day of the week (Matt 28:1; Mark 16:2; John 20:1) ...

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The day Christ Jesus rose from the dead, is not in question by the Seventh-day Adventist. Let us not conflate the day of God's rest (Gen. 2:1-3; Exo. 20:8-11; Jhn. 19:30-31; Luk. 23:54,46), the "seventh day" with another day, following, being a 'first [day] of the week'. The two days are never to be conflated, or combined, or superimposed. The final week of Jesus is seen here - The 7th Day The Sabbath - The Rest Of His Eternal Story (by Aaron Earnest) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The 7th day is a recurring thing in every week.

The resurrection was a one time event in fulfillment of the Feast of Firstfruits / Wavesheaf (Lev. 23:9-14), as antitype to the festal type.


and every other "first [day] of the week" text is continued NT evidence of the perpetual sabbath (sabbaths, σαββατων) of the LORD God, and is distinct from the 'first [day]' itself. The context of those verses are actually speaking about the first day of the first week of the sabbaths counting to Pentecost. See for yourself - The 7th Day The Sabbath - The Rest Of His Eternal Story (by Aaron Earnest) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Those texts (Mat. 28:1; Mar. 16:2; Jhn. 20:1) say nothing of an alteration of the 7th day's solemnity to that of the first. There is no command involved that says such either from anyone, Christ Jesus or the Apostles. There is no continued pattern where Christ Jesus or the Apostles only met on the first [day] of the week, and in contrast that book of Acts shows that the disciples and Christ Jesus met on many days of the week, and yet still kept the 7th day sabbath holy throughout.

There is never an injunction in scripture which says that the believers of God cannot meet together on any day of the week. The Jews before Christ Jesus did so, and the Christians at and after the time of Christ Jesus did so. Several examples are provided in scripture:


All of that extra gathering together, is not a replacement, at any time, for the 7th day the sabbath holy convocation.

BobRyan said:

seventh day in the Bible is not based on "New moon" according to Gen 1 and the Jews to this very day know that such is not the case

Luke 24 there is "The first day of the week" which follows what Luke calls "the Sabbath".
Ex 20:10 the Sabbath is the 7th day.


The Sabbath commandment does not say you need a temple to keep the Sabbath. Take a minute to read Ex 20:8-11
Lev 23:2-3 says the Sabbath is a day of holy convocation... and there was no Temple at that time either

Gen 2:2-3 says the Sabbath was sanctified/set Apart for holy Use on the 7th day of creation week.

No text in OT or NT says the Sabbath cannot be kept

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If you don't keep the required sacrifices of Numbers 28 and 29, you're not keeping the Sabbath. And no, Jesus did not tell us we no longer had to do this. He told us those who go around teaching people they no longer have to do this will be least in the kingdom of heaven (Matt 5:17-20).

Nowhere in Luke 24 does it say "the first day of the week" is a Sunday. Show me in the bible where is says the first day of the week is a Sunday, please and thanks you.

The new moon is the first day of the month. (1Sam20: 5, 27). The sabbath is based on the new moon because the new moon starts the month. after the new moon, which is a Sabbath(Num28:11, Ps 81:3-4, Amos 8:5) you labor for 6 days and then you rest on the 7th day. it would put your weekly Sabbaths at the 8th, 15th, 22nd, and 29th of the month because that work week starts AFTER the sabbath, not during the sabbath.

Those verses in Exodus and Leviticus are irrelevant due to progressive revelation. The required sacrifices of Numbers 28 and 29 must be performed in a designated place(deut 12:4-14). Jesus grew up with his family going to Jerusalem for the appointed feasts(luke 2:22-24, 39, 41). Even if you don't need to make that trip for the weekly sabbath, you still have to perform the sacrifices. If you don't, you're not keeping the Sabbath.

This is why Jesus had to be sacrificed. NOT for what we no longer have to do but for what we no longer CAN do!