The First Four Commandments and the Worship Issue of the End Time

Hentenza said:

Are you claiming that I am not allowing Christ to rule over me? I guess walking in the Spirit does not count for you?

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I follow Jesus Christ, my desire in following Him, is to answer as He would answer.
Which I have not done in the past, sorry.

I can only offer His words and my comments

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction,
and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life,
and few there be that find it.

Christ states clearly, it is the FEW that find eternal life, not the Many and who are the Many?
What is that broad Way? could it be what has become known as christianity?

Sunday, easter, xmas, no law, grace, walk in the spirit, born again, no works, just faith?

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

I have found nothing that indicated the word "fulfil" means end, abolish or destroy, it mean to complete.

But in the next verses Christ clears up any misunderstanding.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

Most would say the Sabbath would be the least commandment and it carries the penalty of death.

but whosoever ""shall do"" and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

then towards the end of His 3 1/2 years of confirming the marriage covenant He says this;
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

This is only the tip of the ice berg so to speak --- The Word of God calls for obeying the voice of God,

and then Jesus Christ states: you can say many things, but if you are not obeying -- depart.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I completely understand the mind set against "earning Salvation" and I agree, I understand it is a free gift, obeying earns zero.
Obeying is required but earns a person zero --- The Law is for the purpose of codifying what God the Father and Christ have determined are sins against THEM. and no one that refused to stop sinning will enter Their Family.

Moses, the only human to ever speak face to face with God, was not allowed into the Promised Land because He did not obey the voice of God.
I have set my mind to follow the Voice of my God which places in with the Few.

Capbook2 said:

You did not define what "covenant" means.
May we know how you define "covenant?"

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A covenant can be a disposition (e.g. a last will/testament) or a compact.

Yes, the new covenant/agreement was God put His Laws in His people's mind and written in their heart.
Nothing in the Law that was changed only the placement. (2Cor 3:3,7)

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Jesus himself, even during his earthly ministry, changed some of what the law said (e.g. instead of an eye for an eye, he told us to turn the other cheek).

The New Covenant is not a set of rules and regulations, but life in the Holy Spirit, being led by him.

2Co 3:3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

Yet it is true that the blood of Jesus the Messiah speaks better things than that of the blood of Abel. The blood of Abel brings vengeance but the blood of Jesus brings mercy.

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The law is the ministry of death, as 2 Cor. 3:7 says (and you quoted it), because it reveals and stirs up sin, then shows everyone under it to be guilty.

I colored red the word "handwriting" which refers to the book of the law handwritten by Moses and was placed beside the ark and some was nailed to the cross. (Deut 31:26)
While God's Law the Ten Commandments written by the finger of God was placed inside the ark. (1Kings 8:9)

Deu 31:26 "Take this book of the law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may remain there as a witness against you.

1Ki 8:9 There was nothing in the ark except the two tablets of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, where the LORD made a covenant with the sons of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

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The ten commandments were written in stone, by the hand of God. They are the ministry of death and condemnation, as the Bible states.

Yes, By God's grace we are saved through our faith, but faith should be shown by good work. (Eph 2:8-10)
Is doing God's Commandments not good works? It can spare us from the lake of fire.

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Trying to live by the ministry of death and condemnation is not good works; it is dead works, from which we need to repent. It is attempting to produce one's own righteousness,by works of the law; rather than looking away to Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith, and walking in step with the Holy Spirit.

How did the "saints" being described? By their endurance of keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. (Rev 14:12)
We must always keep in mind that the "saints" will be spared from the lake of fire which is the second death. (Rev 20:9,10,14)
Do we want to be spared from second death or not?

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Trying to be righteous, by works of the law, will not keep anyone from the second death. We are kept from the second death by God's unmerited favour, through faith in Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit leads us to bear good fruit (love, joy, peace, etc.).

Rev 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Rev 20:9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

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God works in Christians to will and to do of his good pleasure. It is in this way that we keep his commandments, not by trying to do the works of the law.

David1701 said:

A covenant can be a disposition (e.g. a last will/testament) or a compact.

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Yes, a compact still is an agreement between two parties.
The "last will/testament" was not listed as one of the definition of covenant. See below.
Any Bible verse to support your definition?

Gen 9:12 God said, "This is the sign of the covenant which I am making between Me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all successive generations;

Gen 9:12 GodH430 saidH559, "ThisH2088 is R1the signH226 of the covenantH1285 whichH834 I am makingH5414 betweenH996 Me and you and everyH3605 livingH2416a creatureH5315 that is with you, for N1allH5769 successiveH5769 generationsH1755;

H1285
בּרית berı̂yth
BDB Definition:
1) covenant, alliance, pledge
1a) between men
1a1) treaty, alliance, league (man to man)
1a2) constitution, ordinance (monarch to subjects)
1a3) agreement, pledge (man to man)
1a4) alliance (of friendship)
1a5) alliance (of marriage)
1b) between God and man
1b1) alliance (of friendship)
1b2) covenant (divine ordinance with signs or pledges)
2) (phrases)
2a) covenant making
2b) covenant keeping
2c) covenant violation

David1701 said:

Jesus himself, even during his earthly ministry, changed some of what the law said (e.g. instead of an eye for an eye, he told us to turn the other cheek).

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Those are judgements, not included in the Ten Commandments or God's Law.

David1701 said:

The New Covenant is not a set of rules and regulations, but life in the Holy Spirit, being led by him.

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Yes, as God's Laws written in our heart, the ministry of the Spirit is more glorious. (2Cor 3:3,8 Heb 8:8-13))

2Co 3:3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

David1701 said:

The law is the ministry of death, as 2 Cor. 3:7 says (and you quoted it), because it reveals and stirs up sin, then shows everyone under it to be guilty.

The ten commandments were written in stone, by the hand of God. They are the ministry of death and condemnation, as the Bible states.

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Is it wrong to call the old covenant the ministry of death? No, because that is what the law does to us: It slays us as guilty sinners before God so that we can be resurrected by the new covenant. It isn’t that the problem was with the law, but with us: The sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. (Rom 7:5)

Rom 7:5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.

David1701 said:

Trying to live by the ministry of death and condemnation is not good works; it is dead works, from which we need to repent. It is attempting to produce one's own righteousness,by works of the law; rather than looking away to Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith, and walking in step with the Holy Spirit.

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Yes, when we always follow the guidance of the Spirit without opting on our own, we'll be free from the Law, means freed from sinning and became slaves of righteousness. (Rom 7:6, Rom 6:18)

The word "released" in Romans 7:6, bears Strong#G2673, in Greek "καταργέω katargeō" defined by Bible Lexicon specifically from the text mentioned as means - to free from, etc.

Rom 7:6 But nowG3570 we have been R1releasedG2673 from the LawG3551, having R2diedG599 to that by whichG3739 we were boundG2722, soG5620 that we serveG1398 in R3newnessG2538 of R4the N1SpiritG4151 and not in oldnessG3821 of the letterG1121.

G2673
καταργέω katargeō
27x: to render useless or unproductive, occupy unprofitable, Luk_13:7; to render powerless, Rom_6:6; to make empty and unmeaning, Rom_4:14; to render null, to abrogate, cancel, Rom_3:3; Rom_3:31; Eph_2:15; to bring to an end, 1Co_2:6; 1Co_13:8; 1Co_15:24; 1Co_15:26; 2Co_3:7; to destroy, annihilate, 2Th_2:8; Heb_2:14; to free from, dissever from, Rom_7:2; Rom_7:6; Gal_5:4.

Rom 6:18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

David1701 said:

Trying to be righteous, by works of the law, will not keep anyone from the second death. We are kept from the second death by God's unmerited favour, through faith in Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit leads us to bear good fruit (love, joy, peace, etc.).

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No one will become righteous by our own works, as we always fall short to the glory of God.
If we want to be spared from the second death, the Bible records that the "saints" being spared from the lake of fire, the second death persevered on keeping the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. (Rev 14:12 Rev 20:9,10,14))
As faith should be shown by our works, through loving Jesus and the Father. (John 15:10)

Rev 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

David1701 said:

God works in Christians to will and to do of his good pleasure. It is in this way that we keep his commandments, not by trying to do the works of the law.

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Yes, by God's grace we are saved through our faith, and as you state that "it is in that way that we keep His commandments," being the result of being saved, not to be save.