The First Four Commandments and the Worship Issue of the End Time

David1701 said:

There is no question about it: denominations are not God's stated will for his people; however, there are many genuine Christians within them, as well as many tares.

A biblical "church" (it's very unfortunate that that translation is so common, partly because King James insisted upon it, for the Authorised Version, rather than the correct "congregation" or "assembly"; and many later translations have followed suit, out of tradition) is a local congregation of believers in Jesus Christ, or, it can refer to the totality of believers in Jesus Christ (occasionally). A "church" with a headquarters and a hierarchy is not a biblical "church" at all, however many real Christians might attend its meetings.

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I w

David1701 said:

There is no question about it: denominations are not God's stated will for his people; however, there are many genuine Christians within them, as well as many tares.

A biblical "church" (it's very unfortunate that that translation is so common, partly because King James insisted upon it, for the Authorised Version, rather than the correct "congregation" or "assembly"; and many later translations have followed suit, out of tradition) is a local congregation of believers in Jesus Christ, or, it can refer to the totality of believers in Jesus Christ (occasionally). A "church" with a headquarters and a hierarchy is not a biblical "church" at all, however many real Christians might attend its meetings.

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David to be a real Christian, are there specific doctrines one must hold to be accounted as such?
a rapture believer, trinity believer ?

Christ's Bride said:

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David to be a real Christian, are there specific doctrines one must hold to be accounted as such?
a rapture believer, trinity believer ?

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Once a genuine Christian comes across the essential teachings, he will believe them; however, holding to correct doctrine, on its own, does not save one.

Essential Doctrines

That God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit (three Persons but one God).

That the Lord Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man.

That Jesus was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, did many miracles, shed his blood and died on the cross, then rose bodily from the dead, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

That salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not of works lest anyone should boast.

That the Bible is the inerrant, inspired word of God and the only infallible rule for doctrine and practice.

David1701 said:

There is no question about it: denominations are not God's stated will for his people; however, there are many genuine Christians within them, as well as many tares.

A biblical "church" (it's very unfortunate that that translation is so common, partly because King James insisted upon it, for the Authorised Version, rather than the correct "congregation" or "assembly"; and many later translations have followed suit, out of tradition) is a local congregation of believers in Jesus Christ, or, it can refer to the totality of believers in Jesus Christ (occasionally). A "church" with a headquarters and a hierarchy is not a biblical "church" at all, however many real Christians might attend its meeting

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David1701 said:

There is no question about it: denominations are not God's stated will for his people; however, there are many genuine Christians within them, as well as many tares.

A biblical "church" (it's very unfortunate that that translation is so common, partly because King James insisted upon it, for the Authorised Version, rather than the correct "congregation" or "assembly"; and many later translations have followed suit, out of tradition) is a local congregation of believers in Jesus Christ, or, it can refer to the totality of believers in Jesus Christ (occasionally). A "church" with a headquarters and a hierarchy is not a biblical "church" at all, however many real Christians might attend its meetings.

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David, Am I a "real christian"?

I do not keep Xmas
or Easter
or Sunday
do not accept the doctrine of a trinity
or going to heaven or hell
I do not believe this is the only day eternal life will be offered.
I do not believe in death bed conversions.

I follow Jesus Christ, what He taught and the "Way" He lived.
I told you there are the few and there are the many, do not believe any would say I am of the many.

David1701 said:

Once a genuine Christian comes across the essential teachings, he will believe them; however, holding to correct doctrine, on its own, does not save one.

Essential Doctrines

That God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit (three Persons but one God).

That the Lord Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man.

That Jesus was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, did many miracles, shed his blood and died on the cross, then rose bodily from the dead, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

That salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not of works lest anyone should boast.

That the Bible is the inerrant, inspired word of God and the only infallible rule for doctrine and practice.

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how about 2 1/2 out of the 5

Christ's Bride said:

David, Am I a "real christian"?

I do not keep Xmas
or Easter
or Sunday
do not accept the doctrine of a trinity
or going to heaven or hell
I do not believe this is the only day eternal life will be offered.
I do not believe in death bed conversions.

I follow Jesus Christ, what He taught and the "Way" He lived.
I told you there are the few and there are the many, do not believe any would say I am of the many.

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I also do not observe Xmas or Easter.
We can, and should, worship God on every day of the week.
The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. If anyone denies any Person of the Godhead, then he denies God.
The Bible is very clear that there is a heaven and a hell.
This is the day of salvation. Once the door has been closed, there is no more entry (c.f. the parable of the ten virgins; and compare with Noah's Flood, once the door to the ark had been closed).
If someone repents and believes in Jesus Christ, then he is saved. It does not matter how old he is, or what his circumstances are.

Following Jesus Christ necessarily includes believing what he taught. You reject some very important things that he taught.

Christ's Bride said:

how about 2 1/2 out of the 5

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What do you reject, out of what I posted as essentials?

David1701 said:

I also do not observe Xmas or Easter.
We can, and should, worship God on every day of the week.
The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. If anyone denies any Person of the Godhead, then he denies God.
The Bible is very clear that there is a heaven and a hell.
This is the day of salvation. Once the door has been closed, there is no more entry (c.f. the parable of the ten virgins; and compare with Noah's Flood, once the door to the ark had been closed).
If someone repents and believes in Jesus Christ, then he is saved. It does not matter how old he is, or what his circumstances are.

Following Jesus Christ necessarily includes believing what he taught. You reject some very important things that he taught.

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What you listed above are the doctrines of the Many and Rome - they are not the doctrines of the God Family I follow and desire to be a part of. Thank God!

Christ's Bride said:

What you listed above are the doctrines of the Many and Rome - they are not the doctrines of the God Family I follow and desire to be a part of. Thank God!

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The doctrines I listed are from the Bible. They are basic Christianity; and not one of them comes from Rome; although, Rome does agree with some biblical doctrines.

Capbook2 said:

Yes, to God's people, if they'll obey Him. As God always communicates to His people.

Exo 19:5 'Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine;

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And yet Israel remained His people even when they did not obey God. The OT’s story of Israel clearly shows their ups and downs with God. They even rejected God in favor of a king and God still kept them. In fact He kept them as His people until they rejected the Messiah in the first century CE. How does this truth work with your interpretation?

Secondly the Mosaic law including the 10 commandments was given to Israel only as Exodus clearly teaches.

Capbook2 said:

Yes, the word "Sabbath rest" only used once in the whole Bible, it bears Strong# G4520, in Greek "σαββατισμός sabbatismos" first definition by Bible Lexicon as means - Sabbath keeping, etc and is a derivative or comes from G4521.
What Strong#G4521 means?
The Greek of it is "σάββατον sabbaton" which means the seventh day of each week. consistent with Hebrews 4:4.

Heb 4:9 SoG686 there remainsG620 a SabbathG4520 restG4520 for the peopleG2992 of GodG2316.

G4520
σαββατισμός sabbatismos
Thayer Definition:
1) a keeping sabbath
2) the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from a derivative of G4521

G4521
σάββατον sabbaton
Thayer Definition:
1) the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites were required to abstain from all work

A derivative is something that comes from, Google Search

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But this word is not just a derivative but has an implication that perfectly matches what the writer of Hebrews taught in the first three chapters of his book. After three chapters of telling them that Jesus is superior to the angels and that He is our Apostle and High Priest, he pleads with them to not harden their hearts against Him, as their fathers hardened their hearts against the Lord in the wilderness. Because of their unbelief, God denied that generation access to the holy land.

There is no other Sabbath rest besides Jesus. He alone satisfies the requirements of the Law, and He alone provides the sacrifice that atones for sin. He is God’s plan for us to cease from the labor of our own works. This is why the so called derivative is used here and why the definition is not to keep the Jewish sabbath but to “the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians”.

The works of creation might have been finished but the redemptive work of God and Jesus has not.

“But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.””
‭‭John‬ ‭5‬:‭17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Capbook2 said:

As I've said the giving was at Sinai but the knowing of sin was at Eden.
And when there is sin, means a Law was violated. (1John 3:4)

As the word "transgression" bears Strong#G458, in Greek "ἀνομία anomia" defined by Bible Lexicons as - because of violating it, etc.

1Jn 3:4 WhosoeverG3956 committethG4160 sinG266 transgresseth also the law:G4160 G2532 G458 forG2532 sinG266 isG2076 theG3588 transgression of the law.G458

G458
ἀνομία anomia
Thayer Definition:
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it

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But which law? What law existed prior to the Mosaic law?

Capbook2 said:

God did made a seven-day week cycle in the creation week, just like our calendar, what He did was an example for us.
As the Sabbath was made for man "anthropos," it is for us.
As God made holy the seventh day, are we free to profane what God made holy? (Gen 2:1-3)

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Please provide a citation showing that God made a seven day week cycle as an example for us. Remember that no one read the book of Genesis until Moses wrote it in the 15th century BCE. The Egyptians and then the Greek used a 10 day week. The Romans used an eight-day agricultural and market cycle known as the nundinal cycle before gradually shifting to a seven-day week around the first century BC. Many other societies relied solely on lunar phases and seasonal changes, ignoring the concept of a recurring weekly cycle altogether

Capbook2 said:

Yes, God spoke the Ten Commandments in the hearing of His people and add nothing, written on stone by the finger of God and placed inside the ark of the covenant.
While the additional ordinances and statutes He spoke to Moses alone, that made the book of the law, the "Torah" the Pentateuch, handwritten by Moses and placed beside the ark of the covenant.
Yes, I do keep the 10, while some of the additional were nailed to the cross. (Col 2:14)

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Right. Most of Christianity keep Jesus two commandments which include nine of the original commandments while Jesus became our sabbath rest.

Capbook2 said:

As I've said, as God made the seventh day holy, are we free to profane what God made holy? (Gen 2:1-3, Isa 58:13)

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He blessed the seventh day and sanctified it
“because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.” Nothing here to profane.
‭‭

Capbook2 said:

Isa 58:13 If you refrain from trampling the Sabbath, from pursuing your own interests on my holy day; if you call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the LORD honorable; if you honor it, not going your own ways, serving your own interests or pursuing your own affairs;R13
Isa 58:14 then you shall take delight in the LORD, and I will make you ride upon the heights of the earth; I will feed you with the heritage of your ancestor Jacob, for the mouth of the LORD has spoken.R14 (NSRVue+)

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Yes, who is “you” in these verses?

Capbook2 said:

As credentialed Lexicographers defined original Bible words what it means at the time it was used, Brown, Driver, Briggs Lexicon defined the word "rest" in Genesis 2:3, with Strong#H7673, in Hebrew "שׁבת shâbath" one definition is - to keep or observed the Sabbath.

Proves that the "rest" in Genesis 2:3 is defined as means a command at that time it was used as "to keep or observed the Sabbath."

You may check if my quoted BDB Lexicon compare to your BDB Lexicon if such definition is listed or not.

Gen 2:3 And GodH430 blessedH1288 (H853) the seventhH7637 day,H3117 and sanctifiedH6942 it: becauseH3588 that in it he had restedH7673 from allH4480 H3605 his workH4399 whichH834 GodH430 createdH1254 and made.H6213

H7673 (Brown, Driver, Briggs)
שׁבת shâbath
BDB Definition:
1) to cease, desist, rest
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to cease
1a2) to rest, desist (from labour)
1b) (Niphal) to cease
1c) (Hiphil)
1c1) to cause to cease, put an end to
1c2) to exterminate, destroy
1c3) to cause to desist from
1c4) to remove
1c5) to cause to fail
2) (Qal) to keep or observe the sabbath

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It does not. Nothing in Gen. 2 about commanding people to keep the sabbath. Sabbath in Gen. 2:3 just means rest, it does not mean the Jewish sabbath. Context is vital to a proper interpretation.

Capbook2 said:

The context was about not to eat (fasting) and to eat, not judging each other.
Nowhere in the context that mentioned the word "Sabbath"

Rom 14:3 The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.

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You missed the actual context. Read verses 5 and 6. It has to do with eating but it also has to do with observing a day as verse 5-6 point out. These verses teach that disputable matters like observing a specific day, like the sabbath, or dietary preferences should not divide Christians. The core message is that, regardless of differing practices, believers should follow their conscience and do everything to honor and thank God.

“One person values one day over another, another values every day the same. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and the one who eats, does so with regard to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and the one who does not eat, it is for the Lord that he does not eat, and he gives thanks to God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14‬:‭5‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

David1701 said:

The doctrines I listed are from the Bible. They are basic Christianity; and not one of them comes from Rome; although, Rome does agree with some biblical doctrines.

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4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation shows there will be a 2nd resurrection AFTER the 1000 years of all those that died without one chance for eternal life. Ezekiel 37, thats the 100 billion from Israel and the pagans they put to death, everyone up to the return of Christ, many only knew pagan gods, like the American Indians, Chinese.

your doctrine puts children that died at birth or at one or two, plus the majority of the Jews.
and all those in the flood in hell.
My grand mother had her 4 year old daughter killed by a trolley car in 1910, she is going to hell??? Thank God that you are wrong. and my mother and father were not religious, they had no knowledge of God.

Don''t tell me children go to heaven at death-- that renders the entire Bible senseless. If that were so then all should die at birth, as your way put 95% or more in hell.

the 2nd death in the Lake of Fire ends the life of those that refuse to obey -- for ever --- God the Father and Christ could never torture a person in hell, that is of Satan,

No those doctrines of the Many are not in the Word of God.

Christ's Bride said:

You have “interpret” Paul to mean “freed from obeying” , but Paul, who IS difficult to understand, can also be understood to mean:

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You are following the legalist play book and argument.

“as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which there are some things that are hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Which one are you, the untaught or the unstable? These rest can understand Paul just fine.,

Christ's Bride said:

’But now we have been released from the Law,’

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law -- by the body of Christ;

I too have been ‘released’ (become dead) from and to the penalty of death prescribed by the Law. when I repented of transgressing the Holy Commandments, was baptized and received the Holy Spirit, my debt for my sins were paid by the death of Jesus Christ – I am now -- released from the law!

having died to that by which we were bound,

5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

GWT 5 While we were living under the influence of our corrupt nature, sinful passions were at work throughout our bodies. Stirred up by Moses' laws, our sinful passions did things that result in death.

Before the Holy Spirit was placed in me – this body of flesh I inhabit, was filled with sinful lust – which results in the penalty of death. Paul calls the body -- "this body of death"

so that we serve in newness of the Spirit

l can now serve my Master in the New Way of the Spirit of the Law – Holyness. the Law defines Holyness

12 Wherefore the law [is] """holy""", and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

and not in oldness of the letter.” the Old Covenant, obey and be blessed or ---- sin and die
the New Covenant, gives us the "Spirit" of power to obey and the sacrifice of Christ to pay for our sins.

Why was this not included?

7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].

12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Those that will not follow that narrow difficult Way, run to Paul.

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Keep reading.

“Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭1‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Do you walk in the Spirit or by the letter of the law? Paul is not bipolar and defends the law in chapter 7 only to call it weak in chapter 8. You need to check your interpretation because it places the scriptures in tension.

The Christian obeys God by following Jesus two love commandments of which the whole law and the prophets hang. The Christians are not under the Mosaic law but walk in the Spirit instead.

Christ's Bride said:

Please!!!
how it is possible for Paul to proclaim the LAW, the Torah, the Commandments, ARE Holy and Just and Good

but followers of Paul do not need to keep or obey them?

12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

How is it even possible to teach against what is --- holy, and just, and good.

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Address the scriptures that I posted instead of posting your out of context verse and offer your opinion. You did not address my post at all but offered your opinion instead.

Christ's Bride said:

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation shows there will be a 2nd resurrection AFTER the 1000 years of all those that died without one chance for eternal life. Ezekiel 37, thats the 100 billion from Israel and the pagans they put to death, everyone up to the return of Christ, many only knew pagan gods, like the American Indians, Chinese.

your doctrine puts children that died at birth or at one or two, plus the majority of the Jews.
and all those in the flood in hell.
My grand mother had her 4 year old daughter killed by a trolley car in 1910, she is going to hell??? Thank God that you are wrong. and my mother and father were not religious, they had no knowledge of God.

Don''t tell me children go to heaven at death-- that renders the entire Bible senseless. If that were so then all should die at birth, as your way put 95% or more in hell.

the 2nd death in the Lake of Fire ends the life of those that refuse to obey -- for ever --- God the Father and Christ could never torture a person in hell, that is of Satan,

No those doctrines of the Many are not in the Word of God.

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Luke 16:19-31 (E.M.T.V.)
19 "Now there was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen, enjoying himself splendidly every day.
20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores, who had been placed at his gate,
21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. And even the dogs came and would lick his sores.
22 And it came to pass that the beggar died, and he was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham from afar, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am suffering in this flame.'
25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things, but now here he is comforted and you are suffering.
26 And besides all this, between us and you a great gulf has been fixed, so that those who desire to cross over from here to you are not able, nor may those from there cross over to us.'
27 Then he said, 'Therefore I beseech you, father, that you would send him to my father's house,
28 for I have five brothers, so that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'
29 Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.'
30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if someone from the dead should go to them, they will repent.'
31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded should one rise from the dead.' "

Mark 9:43-48
43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It would be better for you to enter into life maimed, than to enter having two hands, to go into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—
44 where 'THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.'
45 "And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It would be better for you to enter into life lame, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—
46 where 'THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.'
47 "And if your eye causes you to stumble, cast it out. It would be better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into the fiery hell,
48 where 'THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.'

David1701 said:

That was the Old Covenant. Christians are in the New Covenant, promised to Israel long ago and begun on the Day of Pentecost.

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You did not define what "covenant" means.
May we know how you define "covenant?"

David1701 said:

Jer. 31:31-34 (A.V.)
¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

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Yes, the new covenant/agreement was God put His Laws in His people's mind and written in their heart.
Nothing in the Law that was changed only the placement. (2Cor 3:3,7)

2Co 3:3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

David1701 said:

Heb. 12:18-24
18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

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Yet it is true that the blood of Jesus the Messiah speaks better things than that of the blood of Abel. The blood of Abel brings vengeance but the blood of Jesus brings mercy.

David1701 said:

Col. 2:8-14
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, where in also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The "handwriting of ordinances that was against us" was God's law, which was nailed to the cross (Christ representing the law, having obeyed it, and receiving its punishments on the cross) and has been taken out of the way.

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I colored red the word "handwriting" which refers to the book of the law handwritten by Moses and was placed beside the ark and some was nailed to the cross. (Deut 31:26)
While God's Law the Ten Commandments written by the finger of God was placed inside the ark. (1Kings 8:9)

Deu 31:26 "Take this book of the law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may remain there as a witness against you.

1Ki 8:9 There was nothing in the ark except the two tablets of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, where the LORD made a covenant with the sons of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

David1701 said:

If someone claims to be a Christian, but is living by trying to keep God's law (instead of being led by the Holy Spirit), then he has fallen from the principle of salvation by grace through faith; and he should test himself, to see whether or not he is in the faith, because, in such a case, there would be grave doubt about it.

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Yes, By God's grace we are saved through our faith, but faith should be shown by good work. (Eph 2:8-10)
Is doing God's Commandments not good works? It can spare us from the lake of fire.

How did the "saints" being described? By their endurance of keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. (Rev 14:12)
We must always keep in mind that the "saints" will be spared from the lake of fire which is the second death. (Rev 20:9,10,14)
Do we want to be spared from second death or not?

Rev 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Rev 20:9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Hentenza said:

And yet Israel remained His people even when they did not obey God. The OT’s story of Israel clearly shows their ups and downs with God. They even rejected God in favor of a king and God still kept them. In fact He kept them as His people until they rejected the Messiah in the first century CE. How does this truth work with your interpretation?

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Yes, the old covenant/agreement (Ex 19) was faulty as God's people kept violating it, that's why a new covenant was made, putting God's Laws in His people's minds and written in their heart. (Heb 8:7-13)

Exo 19:5 'Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine;

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

Hentenza said:

Secondly the Mosaic law including the 10 commandments was given to Israel only as Exodus clearly teaches.

But this word is not just a derivative but has an implication that perfectly matches what the writer of Hebrews taught in the first three chapters of his book. After three chapters of telling them that Jesus is superior to the angels and that He is our Apostle and High Priest, he pleads with them to not harden their hearts against Him, as their fathers hardened their hearts against the Lord in the wilderness. Because of their unbelief, God denied that generation access to the holy land.

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Joshua did entered the holy land but not Moses.

Hentenza said:

There is no other Sabbath rest besides Jesus. He alone satisfies the requirements of the Law, and He alone provides the sacrifice that atones for sin. He is God’s plan for us to cease from the labor of our own works. This is why the so called derivative is used here and why the definition is not to keep the Jewish sabbath but to “the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians”.

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If we interpret Jesus as the Sabbath, it would led us to understand that Jesus was made, as the Sabbath was made. (Mark 2:27)

Hentenza said:

The works of creation might have been finished but the redemptive work of God and Jesus has not.

“But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.””
‭‭John‬ ‭5‬:‭17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 5:17 (NASB2020) - But He answered them, “My Father is | YouVersion

But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.”

bible.com

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Jesus said John 5:17 while He was still on earth working for the salvation of all in faith.
But I believe the Bible had completely written all things for our salvation and to enjoy eternal life.

John 20:30 Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
John 20:31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

Hentenza said:

But which law? What law existed prior to the Mosaic law?

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The Law of "thou shall not kill," Cain was guilty of it.

Hentenza said:

Please provide a citation showing that God made a seven day week cycle as an example for us. Remember that no one read the book of Genesis until Moses wrote it in the 15th century BCE. The Egyptians and then the Greek used a 10 day week. The Romans used an eight-day agricultural and market cycle known as the nundinal cycle before gradually shifting to a seven-day week around the first century BC. Many other societies relied solely on lunar phases and seasonal changes, ignoring the concept of a recurring weekly cycle altogether

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Genesis 2:1-3 speaks of the seventh day, nothing in the whole Bible that record "eight day of the week."
Yes, there were attempts to alter God's seven-day week cycle but I believe nothing exist today.

Hentenza said:

Right. Most of Christianity keep Jesus two commandments which include nine of the original commandments while Jesus became our sabbath rest.

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Do you mean the "Decalogue" became "Ninealogue?"
As I believe nothing in the whole Bible that Nine Commandments was mentioned.

Hentenza said:

He blessed the seventh day and sanctified it
“because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.” Nothing here to profane.

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Good. As the text says "blessed" those who keeps from profaning the Sabbath.

Isa 56:2 "How blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who takes hold of it; Who keeps from profaning the sabbath, And keeps his hand from doing any evil."

Hentenza said:

Yes, who is “you” in these verses?

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As God always communicates to His people, II believe the "you" most likely one of His people.

Hentenza said:

It does not. Nothing in Gen. 2 about commanding people to keep the sabbath. Sabbath in Gen. 2:3 just means rest, it does not mean the Jewish sabbath. Context is vital to a proper interpretation.

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It is not an interpretation, it is a definition of "rest" from credentialed Lexicographers that defined original Bible words what it means at the time it was used.
If we define original Bible words by our own, we define it under the influence of our pre-conceived beliefs without knowing it.

Hentenza said:

You missed the actual context. Read verses 5 and 6. It has to do with eating but it also has to do with observing a day as verse 5-6 point out. These verses teach that disputable matters like observing a specific day, like the sabbath, or dietary preferences should not divide Christians. The core message is that, regardless of differing practices, believers should follow their conscience and do everything to honor and thank God.

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Yes, a day, but that "day" was never referred as the Sabbath, the word Sabbath wasn't mentioned even once.

Hentenza said:

“One person values one day over another, another values every day the same. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and the one who eats, does so with regard to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and the one who does not eat, it is for the Lord that he does not eat, and he gives thanks to God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14‬:‭5‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 14:5-6 (NASB2020) - One person values one day over anot | YouVersion

One person values one day over another, another values every day the same. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and the one who

bible.com

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Yes, the text speaks of "day, eat, not eat, thanks to God, observe to the Lord and etc., but Sabbath never was mentioned.

David1701 said:

Luke 16:19-31 (E.M.T.V.)
19 "Now there was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen, enjoying himself splendidly every day.
20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores, who had been placed at his gate,
21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. And even the dogs came and would lick his sores.
22 And it came to pass that the beggar died, and he was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham from afar, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am suffering in this flame.'
25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things, but now here he is comforted and you are suffering.
26 And besides all this, between us and you a great gulf has been fixed, so that those who desire to cross over from here to you are not able, nor may those from there cross over to us.'
27 Then he said, 'Therefore I beseech you, father, that you would send him to my father's house,
28 for I have five brothers, so that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'
29 Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.'
30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if someone from the dead should go to them, they will repent.'
31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded should one rise from the dead.' "

Mark 9:43-48
43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It would be better for you to enter into life maimed, than to enter having two hands, to go into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—
44 where 'THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.'
45 "And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It would be better for you to enter into life lame, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—
46 where 'THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.'
47 "And if your eye causes you to stumble, cast it out. It would be better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into the fiery hell,
48 where 'THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.'

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The Word was written to confuse those not called and it has.

When Christ returns the Books will be open and then and only then will all know the Truth

there is no point in further communications.

Hentenza said:

You are following the legalist play book and argument.

“as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which there are some things that are hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

2 Peter 3:16 (NASB2020) - as also in all his letters, speakin | YouVersion

as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which there are some things that are hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scrip

bible.com

Which one are you, the untaught or the unstable? These rest can understand Paul just fine.,

Keep reading.

“Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭1‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 8:1-4 (NASB2020) - Therefore there is now no condemnat | YouVersion

Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law c

bible.com

Do you walk in the Spirit or by the letter of the law? Paul is not bipolar and defends the law in chapter 7 only to call it weak in chapter 8. You need to check your interpretation because it places the scriptures in tension.

The Christian obeys God by following Jesus two love commandments of which the whole law and the prophets hang. The Christians are not under the Mosaic law but walk in the Spirit instead.

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good luck

Christ's Bride said:

good luck

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There is no luck involved.

Hentenza said:

There is no luck involved.

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you are correct --- luck will be of no value to those that refuse to allow Christ to rule them, In other words for those He showed and told -- how they are to live. with out iniquity, which is lawlessness.

Christ's Bride said:

you are correct --- luck will be of no value to those that refuse to allow Christ to rule them, In other words for those He showed and told -- how they are to live. with out iniquity, which is lawlessness.

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Are you claiming that I am not allowing Christ to rule over me? I guess walking in the Spirit does not count for you?