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Trump Signs Order Seeking Federal Control of Mail Voting as He Promotes False Claims

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Yes.
Please answer it.
1.Ballots sent to those that didn’t request them. 2. Failure to update voting rolls 3.Ballots sent to people who have moved or died. 4. Failure to verify and authenticate all ballots received. Yes all of these things have happened and have been documented. I am sure they have been some other problems I just didn’t think. As I have posted several time quite a few democratic leaders in the past have spoken of the opportunity for fraud with mail in ballots. But now that it had become so prevalent many politicians have gone silent.
 
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Pommer

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1.Ballots sent to those that didn’t request them.
Each registered voter gets to have one (1) ballot counted in each election.


2. Failure to update voting rolls
What does the relevant California laws state, where has it been shown that the state hasn’t?

3.Ballots sent to people who have moved or died.
Which cannot be used by anybody else, absent forgery.

4. Failure to verify and authenticate all ballots received.
If a ballot isn’t verified and authenticated, is it counted?

Yes all of these things have happened and have been documented. I am sure they have been some other problems I just didn’t think. As I have posted several time quite a few democratic leaders in the past have spoken of the opportunity for fraud with mail in ballots. But now that it had become so prevalent many politicians have gone silent.
You understand that there are Republicans in California who are working elections and seem to be fine with how all of this is going (for the most part part)? Are California Republicans incompetent?

Neither of us are Californians, our opinions are worth the pixels used to covey them and not much more.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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1.Ballots sent to those that didn’t request them.
Not "cheating" - the law is that all registered voters are mailed a ballot.
2. Failure to update voting rolls
Also not "cheating".
3.Ballots sent to people who have moved or died.
Only cheating if someone is voting using those ballots.
4. Failure to verify and authenticate all ballots received.
I'm not sure what you mean by this.
As I have posted several time quite a few democratic leaders in the past have spoken of the opportunity for fraud with mail in ballots. But now that it had become so prevalent many politicians have gone silent.
If you're going to cry fraud, you need more evidence than "Well, it could happen!" There is certainly more opportunity for fraud with mail voting than with in-person voting, but the opportunity for a crime does not prove the existence of a crime, and the system has multiple safeguards in place to prevent and/or catch fraud - especially on a scale that would actually alter the results of an election.
 
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Each registered voter gets to have one (1) ballot counted in each election.



What does the relevant California laws state, where has it been shown that the state hasn’t?


Which cannot be used by anybody else, absent forgery.


If a ballot isn’t verified and authenticated, is it counted?


You understand that there are Republicans in California who are working elections and seem to be fine with how all of this is going (for the most part part)? Are California Republicans incompetent?

Neither of us are Californians, our opinions are worth the pixels used to covey them and not much more.
You have all of the “right “ answers to satisfy anyone who doesn’t pay attention to investigations, criminal convictions and actual truthful reporting on the topic. Just for fun and humor please give your response to the fact that in the past multiple democratic leaders bemoaned the fact that mail-in ballots were ripe for fraud.
 
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Not "cheating" - the law is that all registered voters are mailed a ballot.

Also not "cheating".

Only cheating if someone is voting using those ballots.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

If you're going to cry fraud, you need more evidence than "Well, it could happen!" There is certainly more opportunity for fraud with mail voting than with in-person voting, but the opportunity for a crime does not prove the existence of a crime, and the system has multiple safeguards in place to prevent and/or catch fraud - especially on a scale that would actually alter the results of an election.
See post #124
 
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Pommer

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You have all of the “right “ answers to satisfy anyone who doesn’t pay attention to investigations, criminal convictions and actual truthful reporting on the topic. Just for fun and humor please give your response to the fact that in the past multiple democratic leaders bemoaned the fact that mail-in ballots were ripe for fraud.
The concerns about fraud with mailed ballots have been addressed with the appropriate legislation, thus while it is true that Democratic personages have (in the past) been a bit reluctant about mailed ballots, these have been assuaged.

I’d wager that your argument about mailed ballots is the absolute limit of your knowledge on the subject.
 
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stevevw

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You write nonsense rambles. They deserve pushback.
Hum "you deserve" like its some moral crusade and lesson to be taught.

Show me exactly where I am rambling nonsense ? You just call it that because you don't like it. Nothing I said is nonsense or rambling. As I said I was specific. I explained why mail in voting is not the best way to vote because its open to abuse. Plain and simple and relevant Hans.
Your point is false. The fraud committers are not running elections. Nor is there any reason to think those committing welfare fraud would need to vote fraudulently. It is all irrelevant. (And Minnesota.)
First Is not the government the ones who set the conditions for how voting is to be done. They decide on whether mail in voting is allowed, how votes are collected and what criteria is required to vote. They create the conditions that are more supceptible to fraud.

Second there is reason to think that people who commit welfare or any fraud will more likly commit fraud. Thats why insurance is much higher in high theft and fraud crime areas. Thats why we put locks on a stuff when around those who are more likely to steal. Its psychology 101.

Third the dems have been busted harvesting votes from homeless people. Live footage of dozens being paid to vote Dem. It seems agents are going around registering people to vote dem for money. This is well known that the Dems have a long history of fraud when it comes to voting.
Not relevant.
Its funny. You object to the initial statement as being false. Then dismiss it all as not relevant when its backed up as a fact. It is relevant because it lends support that something fishy is going on with voting as to why on earth leaders who have bad records keep getting in.

Or maybe its some sort of fatal empathy for holding tight to ideas that they know destroy society because the alternative is too hard to admit.
Quit being obtuse.
I am not. I was very clear and simple about how being willing to commit fraud or steal or be willing to do the same undermines integrity.

Willingness to defraud or allow deception requires cognitive rationalization, which invariably erodes a person's overarching ethical foundation Psychological Pathways to Fraud.
The elections board does not run the welfare system. I don't know why this is hard for you to understand.
But they are run by the same admin that runs the welfare system. Slack in admin of welfare leads to slack in admin of election systems from collection to counting.
Not one minute later. It took almost a week of counting votes cast by people who didn't vote for him for him to be eliminated. (see previous statements about republicans and mail-in voting plus democrats and hard choice for governor.)
Yes Raman who did not even win her own electorate and was 4th candidtate in line got a spike in votes with 40% mail in votes. Thus knocking the only rep candidate out. To make it a two dem race. The question is why Raman when she was trending unpopular before the mail in votes ?

In many other states, the vote totals are "known" by dawn the next morning barring a small trickle of oversees voters. California has a "post-mark by election day, 7 days to arrive" rule and uses "central counting". Both of which cause delays.
I wonder why.
There is plenty of discussion on voter ID on this board (and probably in this thread) so I'm not going to join that. Neither you, nor I vote by mail nor do we vote in California.
Why would you exclude a major and central part of the discussion on mail in voting. Voter ID is central to the mail in voting system. It changes it dramatically and cuts out much of the issues of laxness inherent in mail in voting.
Let me know when that happens. My French ancestors had an alternative plan...
It will probably be around the same time the US becomes a united socialist republic.
They have a wide variety of ideologies to pick from. The two democrats surviving for LA mayor are quite different. I wouldn't be surprised if the 15% of Angelenos who are Republicans make the difference by voting for the incumbent, mainstream Democrat in November.
Actually they will probably vote for Raman. They would be to upset at Bass. But then I have heard raman is pretty radical as well. But either way they still get the same broad socialist progressive policies that are destroying the State and cities that santuary States want.
25 of the 61 candidates for governor where Democrats. There were many Republicans running as well.
Ok I see. yes thats similar here as well for local elections. State has a few more and nationally its more limited to about 20 or so. Like the National shooters or farmers party or the Pot party lol. But they may align with a major party to get the peferences.

Still it always ends up with Labor (dem) and Conservatives (rep) fighting it out by design. You cannot end up with two Labor or Conservatives. That seems unfair. Its like going to buy a car and they only sell you Ford. They may have different models but its always Ford and never Holden.
It's a silly system and Californians seem to have had enough of it. I'm not sure how it will help the GOP with a guarenteed slot on the general election ballot as they are a low popularity party.
I think if Pratt took his campaign to the next level with say debates and all that I think he would have gained more votes. maybe not to win but to highlight an alternative policy and ideas. Then this allows people to become aware and they may give an alternative party a chance.

I think Pratt has already done that and I think you will find after another few years of the same old ideas and policies that more people will be willing to change. There is usually a fairly large middle ground which will switch either way. But it seems in some States its one way which I don't think is good in the long run.
Weird that people vote for the party that gives them the most benefit with the fewest taxes. Too bad for the GOP that they suck so bad at this for the needs of California.
I thought the Dems or Labor were the party of highest taxes. Is that not what Mandami is doing in NY. I am pretty sure california ranks around 10 or 11th on tax burden. Thats not great.

But I think its more than that. Its the social burden of homelessness, drugs and crime and the policies that encourage it. Its the fraud and mismanagement of tax payers money. Its the quality of life.

While California remains a highly popular state, it faces significant structural and economic issues that regularly place it at the bottom of national quality-of-life and relocation rankings. Organizations like ConsumerAffairs have ranked the Golden State as the single worst state to move to due to compounding factors in several key areas. [1, 2, 3]
 
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essentialsaltes

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Hum "you deserve" like its some moral crusade and lesson to be taught.
Let's roll the tape. The subject was not 'you' but [your] "nonsense rambles".
First Is not the government the ones who set the conditions for how voting is to be done.
Government, certainly, but which part of it.

The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.

The executive has no role under our Constitution.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Hum "you deserve" like its some moral crusade and lesson to be taught.

Show me exactly where I am rambling nonsense ? You just call it that because you don't like it. Nothing I said is nonsense or rambling. As I said I was specific.
Have you noticed the length of your posts? The length is not justified by the content or "expertise" you offer.
I explained why mail in voting is not the best way to vote because its open to abuse. Plain and simple and relevant Hans.
Whether mail voting is good or not is not the subject.
First Is not the government the ones who set the conditions for how voting is to be done.
They decide on whether mail in voting is allowed, how votes are collected and what criteria is required to vote. They create the conditions that are more supceptible to fraud.
It is the state legislature, not the county welfare agency that sets the conditions for voting.
Second there is reason to think that people who commit welfare or any fraud will more likly commit fraud. Thats why insurance is much higher in high theft and fraud crime areas. Thats why we put locks on a stuff when around those who are more likely to steal. Its psychology 101.
This is pure speculation and fear mongering.
Third the dems have been busted harvesting votes from homeless people. Live footage of dozens being paid to vote Dem. It seems agents are going around registering people to vote dem for money. This is well known that the Dems have a long history of fraud when it comes to voting.
Facebook? why would I click on a facebook link (do they even work for non members?)
Its funny. You object to the initial statement as being false. Then dismiss it all as not relevant when its backed up as a fact. It is relevant because it lends support that something fishy is going on with voting as to why on earth leaders who have bad records keep getting in.

Or maybe its some sort of fatal empathy for holding tight to ideas that they know destroy society because the alternative is too hard to admit.

I am not. I was very clear and simple about how being willing to commit fraud or steal or be willing to do the same undermines integrity.

Willingness to defraud or allow deception requires cognitive rationalization, which invariably erodes a person's overarching ethical foundation Psychological Pathways to Fraud.
I'm not interested in your hack, amateur psychobabble.
But they are run by the same admin that runs the welfare system. Slack in admin of welfare leads to slack in admin of election systems from collection to counting.
I already told you it isn't the same people.
Yes Raman who did not even win her own electorate
What is "her electorate"? Is that some sort of aussie slang?
and was 4th candidtate in line got a spike in votes with 40% mail in votes. Thus knocking the only rep candidate out. To make it a two dem race. The question is why Raman when she was trending unpopular before the mail in votes ?
Learn how votes are counted.
Bill oriely? Really. He's a hack political commentator that was fired from FoxNews.
Why would you exclude a major and central part of the discussion on mail in voting. Voter ID is central to the mail in voting system. It changes it dramatically and cuts out much of the issues of laxness inherent in mail in voting.

It will probably be around the same time the US becomes a united socialist republic.

Actually they will probably vote for Raman. They would be to upset at Bass. But then I have heard raman is pretty radical as well. But either way they still get the same broad socialist progressive policies that are destroying the State and cities that santuary States want.

Ok I see. yes thats similar here as well for local elections. State has a few more and nationally its more limited to about 20 or so. Like the National shooters or farmers party or the Pot party lol. But they may align with a major party to get the peferences.

Still it always ends up with Labor (dem) and Conservatives (rep) fighting it out by design. You cannot end up with two Labor or Conservatives. That seems unfair. Its like going to buy a car and they only sell you Ford. They may have different models but its always Ford and never Holden.

I think if Pratt took his campaign to the next level with say debates and all that I think he would have gained more votes. maybe not to win but to highlight an alternative policy and ideas. Then this allows people to become aware and they may give an alternative party a chance.

I think Pratt has already done that and I think you will find after another few years of the same old ideas and policies that more people will be willing to change. There is usually a fairly large middle ground which will switch either way. But it seems in some States its one way which I don't think is good in the long run.

I thought the Dems or Labor were the party of highest taxes. Is that not what Mandami is doing in NY. I am pretty sure california ranks around 10 or 11th on tax burden. Thats not great.

But I think its more than that. Its the social burden of homelessness, drugs and crime and the policies that encourage it. Its the fraud and mismanagement of tax payers money. Its the quality of life.

While California remains a highly popular state, it faces significant structural and economic issues that regularly place it at the bottom of national quality-of-life and relocation rankings. Organizations like ConsumerAffairs have ranked the Golden State as the single worst state to move to due to compounding factors in several key areas. [1, 2, 3]
I'm not reading all of that.
 
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stevevw

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Let's roll the tape. The subject was not 'you' but [your] "nonsense rambles".
How exactly. All I did was point out the obvious.
Government, certainly, but which part of it.

The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.

The executive has no role under our Constitution.
Then its the legislative arm of the State that is determining the criteria for voting. That is still the government. The political party that is in power in that State. california has around 83% mail in voting. The vast majority open to a system that can be abused by not properly identifying voters.
 
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stevevw

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Have you noticed the length of your posts? The length is not justified by the content or "expertise" you offer.
My posts are no longer than yours Hans. My OP was 18 sentences and your response was 20 sentenses. You just don't like what I say so you find ways to attack the person and way its presented. Just deal with the content and stop complaining with logical fallacies. .
Whether mail voting is good or not is not the subject.
That doesn't make sense. why is mail in voting an issue then if its not about whether or not it is a good idea or policy. What is the subject then ?
It is the state legislature, not the county welfare agency that sets the conditions for voting.
Who sets the regulations for the welfare agencies. Why was Waltz held responsible for the Minesota welfare fraud ? Is it not State legislation that determines the regulations and laws for which welfare agencies can operate in the State ? Or how voting is regulated ?
This is pure speculation and fear mongering.
No its not. It is reflected in the reality of how we treat those who commit fraud and steal. We don't trust them because they have higher rates and propensity of fraud and theft. This is a self evident truth principle of life.

"pure spectulation" means there is absolutely no reason to suspect any wrong doing. How can you say that about a person, company, organisation, county or State admin whose systems are found to have fraud ? That is just plain denial of reality.
Facebook? why would I click on a facebook link (do they even work for non members?)
More logical fallacies attacking the sources. We now have evidence of agents paying homeless and welfare recipients money to vote dems.

Brenda Lee Brown Armstrong, a 64-year-old California woman, agreed to plead guilty to federal charges in May 2026 for illegally paying homeless individuals on Los Angeles' Skid Row to register to vote. [1, 2] The federal charges were prompted by an undercover investigation and video footage capturing the transactions. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, Armstrong admitted to instructing individuals to use fake addresses or her former residence to qualify initiatives for the state ballot, which is a federal crime. [1]

So the abuse and oppostunity is there and its been exposed. Its just a matter of how many have been doing it.

Another loophole is that you can literally write the date you voted rather than having a date stamp. Which means people can backdate their vote after the election and then send it in.

That a system can allow such an opportunity is the problem. That a State can setup and allow such a system is the problem.

Report: Political Weaponization of Ballot Harvesting in California United States House of Representatives Committee on House Administration
No other state allows for fraudulent voting practices like California’s ballot harvesting provisions. The susceptibility to fraud and abuse harms not only individual voters, but jepordizes the entire electoral process. It is vital to understand the damage ballot harvesting has on election integrity, and we must all work together to ensure steps are taken to mitigate this threat.
I'm not interested in your hack, amateur psychobabble.
Thats your opinion. I will keep speaking my hack, amateur psychobabble. Because I and the majority of others don't think it is the case. But reality and the truth.
I already told you it isn't the same people.
Do you understand that its not the individuals on the ground who are operating the system (collecting/counting votes or handing out welfare and meals). But rather how the system is setup which allows abuse. Which has little checks and balances and allows further abuses at the ground level.

That comes from the admin, the legislators and regulators which are the politicians in leadership positions ie the governor of california who allows a slack system of voting that is open to abuse. The question is why. What are they hiding ?
What is "her electorate"? Is that some sort of aussie slang?
Its how we understand the district for which a Council member represents or looks after. Raman lost her own home electorate (City Council District 4) in the run up to the mayors election.
Learn how votes are counted.
It seems it doesn't matter how its counted. Its the end result. Nor does it matter too much about how the results are achieved with a system that is slack and allows for abuse. All I know is the Raman was not the most popular in her own district and yet is now overtaking Pratt with a sudden surge of mail in votes to make it an all dem showdown.
Bill oriely? Really. He's a hack political commentator that was fired from FoxNews.
Another fallacy. Attacking the source. yet you are quite happy to cite Left wing bias sites. You never ever mention any of what they say or show the content is false. Just an immediate dismissal based on association or your personal opinion that they are bad.

This is a very poor way of arguing as you have no arguement. At least I gave an arguement why the content of your linked articles was wrong.
I'm not reading all of that.
fair enough.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Then its the legislative arm of the State that is determining the criteria for voting. That is still the government.
Of course it is. But in the context of the actual topic of this thread, that's why Trump's action is likely unconstitutional.
 
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essentialsaltes

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We now have evidence of agents paying homeless and welfare recipients money to vote dems.

Brenda Lee Brown Armstrong, a 64-year-old California woman, agreed to plead guilty to federal charges in May 2026 for illegally paying homeless individuals on Los Angeles' Skid Row to register to vote. [1, 2] The federal charges were prompted by an undercover investigation and video footage capturing the transactions. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, Armstrong admitted to instructing individuals to use fake addresses or her former residence to qualify initiatives for the state ballot, which is a federal crime. [1]
This is not paying to 'vote dems'. This is paying to register to vote for signing petitions for ballot initiative.
Another loophole is that you can literally write the date you voted rather than having a date stamp. Which means people can backdate their vote after the election and then send it in.
The post office stamps dates. The postmark is the date that is used.

You or someone else was talking about someone online with 'evidence' of people paying 3 homeless people on Skid Row to vote for mayor. The LA Times tracked the claim down to a TikTokker by the name of LAneedsSteveHilton. This does not seem like an objective source. They also tracked down one of the three people in the video. She is not registered to vote in Los Angeles, but rather in Inglewood, so she could not have voted in the mayoral race.

Unfounded claims of homeless voter fraud roil L.A. We went to Skid Row for answers

 
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Hans Blaster

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My posts are no longer than yours Hans. My OP was 18 sentences and your response was 20 sentenses. You just don't like what I say so you find ways to attack the person and way its presented. Just deal with the content and stop complaining with logical fallacies. .
Do you not know the rules about replies? It takes more words to refute nonsense than to spew it. (You know this intrinsically, given the volume of your nonsense. Your primary posting tactic is to overwhelm us so we give up and don't respond.)
That doesn't make sense. why is mail in voting an issue then if its not about whether or not it is a good idea or policy. What is the subject then ?
The subject (of the actual thread) was Trump's illegal attempts to control elections.
Who sets the regulations for the welfare agencies. Why was Waltz held responsible for the Minesota welfare fraud ? Is it not State legislation that determines the regulations and laws for which welfare agencies can operate in the State ? Or how voting is regulated ?

No its not. It is reflected in the reality of how we treat those who commit fraud and steal. We don't trust them because they have higher rates and propensity of fraud and theft. This is a self evident truth principle of life.

"pure spectulation" means there is absolutely no reason to suspect any wrong doing. How can you say that about a person, company, organisation, county or State admin whose systems are found to have fraud ? That is just plain denial of reality.

More logical fallacies attacking the sources. We now have evidence of agents paying homeless and welfare recipients money to vote dems.
You are getting off track again. This is not Minesota (or even Minnesota.)
Brenda Lee Brown Armstrong, a 64-year-old California woman, agreed to plead guilty to federal charges in May 2026 for illegally paying homeless individuals on Los Angeles' Skid Row to register to vote. [1, 2] The federal charges were prompted by an undercover investigation and video footage capturing the transactions. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, Armstrong admitted to instructing individuals to use fake addresses or her former residence to qualify initiatives for the state ballot, which is a federal crime. [1]

So the abuse and oppostunity is there and its been exposed. Its just a matter of how many have been doing it.
You do realize that the homeless are allowed to vote, right? I'm not sure what the crime was here.
Another loophole is that you can literally write the date you voted rather than having a date stamp. Which means people can backdate their vote after the election and then send it in.
No. Post marks are applied by the post office. They use post marks.
That a system can allow such an opportunity is the problem. That a State can setup and allow such a system is the problem.

Report: Political Weaponization of Ballot Harvesting in California United States House of Representatives Committee on House Administration
No other state allows for fraudulent voting practices like California’s ballot harvesting provisions. The susceptibility to fraud and abuse harms not only individual voters, but jepordizes the entire electoral process. It is vital to understand the damage ballot harvesting has on election integrity, and we must all work together to ensure steps are taken to mitigate this threat.
Pro tip: The "republicans" in the URL tell you this is a partisan report. I treat it as such.
Thats your opinion. I will keep speaking my hack, amateur psychobabble. Because I and the majority of others don't think it is the case. But reality and the truth.

Do you understand that its not the individuals on the ground who are operating the system (collecting/counting votes or handing out welfare and meals). But rather how the system is setup which allows abuse. Which has little checks and balances and allows further abuses at the ground level.

That comes from the admin, the legislators and regulators which are the politicians in leadership positions ie the governor of california who allows a slack system of voting that is open to abuse. The question is why. What are they hiding ?
Allow? The people of California *chose* that system. The mail-in/drop-off votes became more and more popular with each election. To turn a phrase, the people voted with their feet about which "style" of voting they preferred.
Its how we understand the district for which a Council member represents or looks after. Raman lost her own home electorate (City Council District 4) in the run up to the mayors election.
Oh, you meant her constituents.
It seems it doesn't matter how its counted. Its the end result. Nor does it matter too much about how the results are achieved with a system that is slack and allows for abuse. All I know is the Raman was not the most popular in her own district and yet is now overtaking Pratt with a sudden surge of mail in votes to make it an all dem showdown.
It does matter how they are counted, or rather which voters are likely to be counted first. Back in the day in my home Congressional district, the city vote came in first because the cities mostly used mechanical lever voting machines. To get the result from those, each precinct only had to lock down the machine, read the numbers for each candidate on each machine, add them up (triple check their work), and call the number in where the press could get it and fold it in to their ongoing count. The rural towns used paper ballots that had to be hand counted. This took longer and results were slower to come in from the rural towns and be made available to the press on election night. As a consequence, when they reported the results on local TV when half of precincts were reporting if the Dem wasn't up by a few points, they would probably loose because the rural towns leaned to the GOP and the big city to the Dems. (When I was 18, I got to vote with one of those machines I'd only ever seen on TV after watching my parents vote on paper in our rural town.)

We already went over why liberal voters were more likely to vote late and in drop/mail boxes than the conservatives. This meant that the conservative candidates were going to get their best result on election night when the total was mostly in person (GOP leaning) voters. (And it was not a "sudden surge", but a steady set of votes counted each day and Pratt had fewer votes in each and every one of those batches than Raman.)

Another fallacy. Attacking the source. yet you are quite happy to cite Left wing bias sites. You never ever mention any of what they say or show the content is false. Just an immediate dismissal based on association or your personal opinion that they are bad.
Steve, you cited as "evidence" a commentator. Commentary is simply not evidence.
This is a very poor way of arguing as you have no arguement. At least I gave an arguement why the content of your linked articles was wrong.

fair enough.
 
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stevevw

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Do you not know the rules about replies? It takes more words to refute nonsense than to spew it. (You know this intrinsically, given the volume of your nonsense. Your primary posting tactic is to overwhelm us so we give up and don't respond.)
Yes thats why my posts are long as I need to point out the falsehoods and fallacies you make.
The subject (of the actual thread) was Trump's illegal attempts to control elections.
Yes and therefore part of the reason for the need to control elections is about the system that allows fraud. The OP mentions mail in voting as one of the issues regarding election fraud.
You are getting off track again. This is not Minesota (or even Minnesota.)
Do you understand comparisons to make a point. Or are comparisons not allowed either.
You do realize that the homeless are allowed to vote, right? I'm not sure what the crime was here.
Why was Brown arrested then. She admitted to making up addresses and paying people to only vote dems to qualify for the money. Yes the homeless are allowed to vote but cannot be enticed by agents to vote one way over another. Thats actually denying the right to vote freely and independently.

Even if its all above board most people agree its fishy and needs to be tightened up as its too open for abuse that people have lost confidence in the system. But because its so open to abuse its reasonable to assume some abuse is happening as Browns arrest. Many homeless also admit that agents come regularly to pay for voting.

The urgent case for fixing California’s broken elections
California's notorious tardiness in counting votes has been universially rideculed and has undermined public trust in elections.
No. Post marks are applied by the post office. They use post marks.
Actually the rules state that if the post mark is not readable or has nt date stamp such as privately sending the vote in. Then the written date will be accepted. Its another example of a slack system that is open to abuse.

The votes collected by the agents around skid row are not mailed in but are harvested and dumped into the system. Many homeless being registered other adresses, the agents adress or 100s from homeless shelters that only have a dozen beds.

It sounds similar to the welfare fraud where child centers had 100 kids registered and only a few places for kids. Or at the same address or empty warehouses.
Pro tip: The "republicans" in the URL tell you this is a partisan report. I treat it as such.
They cite the evidence. Its commonsense that the system is open to abuse and needs fixing. But california refuses to address the problems.

Observation 1. California’s newly legalized practice of ballot harvesting lacks any oversight mechanisms to prevent and detect fraud and is a highly irregular means of collecting and tallying votes; and
Observation 2. Los Angeles County lacks adequate security protocols in its custody of vote-by-mail ballots.
Allow? The people of California *chose* that system. The mail-in/drop-off votes became more and more popular with each election. To turn a phrase, the people voted with their feet about which "style" of voting they preferred.
No they don't Hans. if you would have read the link above you would know this is set by legislation ie California’s newly legalized practice of ballot harvesting. California Registrar, the county official responsible for administering elections in California.

The system is legislated and regulated by local and state politicians ie The The Secretary of State's Election Division and County Registrar. The people don't setup the system for how people vote.
Oh, you meant her constituents.
Yes her own constituents rejected her. Yet she gets 1,000s of mail in votes outdoing Pratt and even Bass.
It does matter how they are counted, or rather which voters are likely to be counted first. Back in the day in my home Congressional district, the city vote came in first because the cities mostly used mechanical lever voting machines. To get the result from those, each precinct only had to lock down the machine, read the numbers for each candidate on each machine, add them up (triple check their work), and call the number in where the press could get it and fold it in to their ongoing count. The rural towns used paper ballots that had to be hand counted. This took longer and results were slower to come in from the rural towns and be made available to the press on election night. As a consequence, when they reported the results on local TV when half of precincts were reporting if the Dem wasn't up by a few points, they would probably loose because the rural towns leaned to the GOP and the big city to the Dems. (When I was 18, I got to vote with one of those machines I'd only ever seen on TV after watching my parents vote on paper in our rural town.)
We will see. Still all seems fishy.
We already went over why liberal voters were more likely to vote late and in drop/mail boxes than the conservatives. This meant that the conservative candidates were going to get their best result on election night when the total was mostly in person (GOP leaning) voters. (And it was not a "sudden surge", but a steady set of votes counted each day and Pratt had fewer votes in each and every one of those batches than Raman.)
Still seems fishy. Raman recieved most of the mail in votes. Funny that. When all the polling had her a distant last. She did not rate even within her own party.
Steve, you cited as "evidence" a commentator. Commentary is simply not evidence.
What about what O’Reilly said was false. Once again a logical fallacy to dismiss things.

Votes for Raman surged in the last two days, leading to the ousting of Republican reality TV star Spencer Pratt (fact)
“Every thinking person knows that it’s suspicious,” (fact) unless your a dem. But it is fishy and many are saying so. Even if its because the system is so open to abuse and lacks proper regulations.
The city’s residents’ lack of concern about several issues — crime, homelessness, drugs, etc. — reflects the voting public. (fact)

O’Reilly did not even claim fraud was happening. So this shows you dismiss articles without even reading them. Your mind is already made up. That seems more a partisan attitude than the claim these articles are partisan.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Yes thats why my posts are long as I need to point out the falsehoods and fallacies you make.
Steve, your first post on this thread was not a response to anyone and introduced two topics that had not been part of any threads: The welfare fraud means voting fraud nonsense, and some bit about when parties stay in power too long.
Yes and therefore part of the reason for the need to control elections is about the system that allows fraud. The OP mentions mail in voting as one of the issues regarding election fraud.
Whether he thinks there is a problem or there even is one. Trump has no power to do what he did and fixing a problem by braking the law is a crime.
Do you understand comparisons to make a point. Or are comparisons not allowed either.

Why was Brown arrested then. She admitted to making up addresses and paying people to only vote dems to qualify for the money. Yes the homeless are allowed to vote but cannot be enticed by agents to vote one way over another. Thats actually denying the right to vote freely and independently.

Even if its all above board most people agree its fishy and needs to be tightened up as its too open for abuse that people have lost confidence in the system. But because its so open to abuse its reasonable to assume some abuse is happening as Browns arrest. Many homeless also admit that agents come regularly to pay for voting.
Read the article and find out. I don't see how a case involving a handful of people has any relevance to an election with millions of votes.
The urgent case for fixing California’s broken elections
California's notorious tardiness in counting votes has been universially rideculed and has undermined public trust in elections.
What part of "I don't care what silly aussies think about our elections" do you not understand. (I've been telling you this for year, but you somehow think we want your uninformed opinion.
Actually the rules state that if the post mark is not readable or has nt date stamp such as privately sending the vote in. Then the written date will be accepted. Its another example of a slack system that is open to abuse.

The votes collected by the agents around skid row are not mailed in but are harvested and dumped into the system. Many homeless being registered other adresses, the agents adress or 100s from homeless shelters that only have a dozen beds.

It sounds similar to the welfare fraud where child centers had 100 kids registered and only a few places for kids. Or at the same address or empty warehouses.

They cite the evidence. Its commonsense that the system is open to abuse and needs fixing. But california refuses to address the problems.

Observation 1. California’s newly legalized practice of ballot harvesting lacks any oversight mechanisms to prevent and detect fraud and is a highly irregular means of collecting and tallying votes; and
Observation 2. Los Angeles County lacks adequate security protocols in its custody of vote-by-mail ballots.

No they don't Hans. if you would have read the link above you would know this is set by legislation ie California’s newly legalized practice of ballot harvesting. California Registrar, the county official responsible for administering elections in California.

The system is legislated and regulated by local and state politicians ie The The Secretary of State's Election Division and County Registrar. The people don't setup the system for how people vote.

Yes her own constituents rejected her. Yet she gets 1,000s of mail in votes outdoing Pratt and even Bass.

We will see. Still all seems fishy.

Still seems fishy. Raman recieved most of the mail in votes. Funny that. When all the polling had her a distant last. She did not rate even within her own party.

What about what O’Reilly said was false. Once again a logical fallacy to dismiss things.

Votes for Raman surged in the last two days, leading to the ousting of Republican reality TV star Spencer Pratt (fact)
“Every thinking person knows that it’s suspicious,” (fact) unless your a dem. But it is fishy and many are saying so. Even if its because the system is so open to abuse and lacks proper regulations.
The city’s residents’ lack of concern about several issues — crime, homelessness, drugs, etc. — reflects the voting public. (fact)

O’Reilly did not even claim fraud was happening. So this shows you dismiss articles without even reading them. Your mind is already made up. That seems more a partisan attitude than the claim these articles are partisan.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Why was Brown arrested then. She admitted to making up addresses and paying people to only vote dems to qualify for the money.
Still false. It was not about voting for candidates. It was about being registered to vote, so they could sign petitions for ballot propositions (that she was paid to collect).
Votes for Raman surged in the last two days, leading to the ousting of Republican reality TV star Spencer Pratt (fact)
“Every thinking person knows that it’s suspicious,” (fact)
Non-fact. We've gone over the Democratic preference for mail in voting several times. The whole country learned about the red mirage a few years back. This is not suspicious. We expect it and it was predicted beforehand.
 
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