'He lied': Trump voters are revolting at the scope of White House betrayal

Servus said:

I never said it was true or false, I only said it exists.

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Well, you claim it exists. You haven't demonstrated that, so we only have your word for it. And that's aside from whether or not that perception has any basis in reality.

Servus said:

Whereas you adamantly claim that it's false.

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It is, and I've offered evidence to support that. Specifically, the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare, a conservative health care plan devised by the Heritage Foundation supported by the Democratic party. There's nothing liberal about that legislation, let alone "radically" liberal.

And, since nothing has been offered to demonstrate otherwise, what other conclusion am I to come to?

Servus said:

Therefore since you're the one making the claim that it's false, it's up to you to prove that your claim is accurate.

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Don't try to shift the burden of proof. You made the claim, it's up to you to support it, if you can.

Servus said:

And since I never said your claim is wrong, I don't have to provide proof along those lines.

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Your claim: "And as far as Republican voters being in revolt, dissatisfied, disillusioned, apathetic. Perhaps the same can be said of Democrat voters as well, regarding how radically liberal that party has become or at least is perceived as such."

It's up to you to support that claim.

Servus said:

Will Rogers died 90 years ago. His assessment of the democrat party is what it was like a century ago.

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And what he said remains true.

Servus said:

I've pointed out a few times that thought this exchange you've unwittingly conveyed that you don't anything about the subject, that you can't look up information about it to get answers, and that you need me to teach you about it.

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I never said any of that. You made a claim that I have no reason to believe is true. That you have been unable to back up that claim indicates to me that you can't, which supports the contention that it's false. It's not my job to find evidence for your claims. If you can't back them up, it might be better for you to not make them in the first place.

Servus said:

You demand proof for claims that were not made by me,

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I'll quote you again: "And as far as Republican voters being in revolt, dissatisfied, disillusioned, apathetic. Perhaps the same can be said of Democrat voters as well, regarding how radically liberal that party has become or at least is perceived as such." Emphasis added, in case you missed it.

Servus said:

and fail to provide proof for claims that are being made by you.

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I'm not making the claim, I'm saying you've not given me any reason to believe it's true, or that the perception that it's true has any basis in reality.

Servus said:

Well since you've said you know about and you have claimed that they're lying, you should already know the answers to those questions.

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Nope. If you want me to accept your claim that the party is "radically liberal," or that the perception that it is has any basis in reality, you're gonna have to demonstrate it. If you want to simply claim that some people perceive this to be true, then you'll have to show me who these people are and what it is they actually believe. For all I know, they don't fully agree with your assessment, and you've misunderstood their views. Who can say?

Servus said:

I think you've been playing a derailing game of cat and mouse with me, which I've experienced before. So I'm not going to reply to your posts in the future.

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What's happening here is I'm not letting you get away with making unsubstantiated claims and pretending they have any basis in reality. That kind of thing happens too much on the internet, and I, for one, am stubborn and pedantic enough to challenge it when it happens. If you're not up to the challenge of backing up the claims you make, that's on you. Don't blame me if you can't make your case.

-- A2SG, so reply or don't, it's all the same to me.....it simply affirms that your claim has no basis in reality.....

Servus said:

I find what Bill Maher has to say about it interesting. And he's not an R. He seems to be more along the lines of exasperated that the democrat party is self destructing.

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Everybody who doesn't vote Republican is exasperated that the Democratic party can't fight its way out of a paper bag.

That doesn't mean that Bill Maher has anything insightful to say.

iluvatar5150 said:

Everybody who doesn't vote Republican is exasperated that the Democratic party can't fight its way out of a paper bag.

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He has a lot more to say about it than that.

iluvatar5150 said:

That doesn't mean that Bill Maher has anything insightful to say.

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That would be up to the listener to decide. I think there's a lot of legit criticism and many can't bear to hear.

Servus said:

He has a lot more to say about it than that.

That would be up to the listener to decide. I think there's a lot of legit criticism and many can't bear to hear.

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I didn't say his criticism wasn't legitimate. I'm sure much of it is. I said it wasn't insightful, by which I mean that others have come to the same conclusions earlier and with more depth.

It'd be like me running into a college physics class and shouting "E equals MC squared!". I'd be correct, but also not adding anything.

For the record: My political views have changed pretty significantly over the course of my life. The only two people I haven't been able to stand from very early on are Bill Maher and Chuck Schumer.

iluvatar5150 said:

I didn't say his criticism wasn't legitimate. I'm sure much of it is. I said it wasn't insightful, by which I mean that others have come to the same conclusions earlier and with more depth.

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Like who?

iluvatar5150 said:

It'd be like me running into a college physics class and shouting "E equals MC squared!". I'd be correct, but also not adding anything.

For the record: My political views have changed pretty significantly over the course of my life. The only two people I haven't been able to stand from very early on are Bill Maher and Chuck Schumer.

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That's an interesting combo. I don't listen to Bill Maher much. Just the odd short segment here and there. I was just a bit intrigued he would be one to speak out about it. Sometimes it not what's said, as in others say it to, but rather who is saying it.

Servus said:

Like who?

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Everybody?

I don't mean to be flippant, but it's been a pretty consistent theme in center-left media for a decade now. These were the top results of a google search I just did. The Hoover Institute is the only conservative source on there:



Then I restricted the search to nytimes.com and pulled out a couple that were obviously not relevant:

There's one in there from David French, who's a never-Trumper conservative, but tries to be fair-minded. The rest are from inside the camp.

The reason that the party's approval rating is so low is that its own voters can't stand it. We all know the party is terrible. If you read center-left outlets like the NY Times or the Atlantic, you can barely go a week without somebody hitting on this. The two podcast I listen to most regularly are Ezra Kelin and Know Your Enemy and it's well-trod ground there.

Servus said:

That's an interesting combo. I don't listen to Bill Maher much. Just the odd short segment here and there. I was just a bit intrigued he would be one to speak out about it. Sometimes it not what's said, as in others say it to, but rather who is saying it.

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Bill Maher is the left-wing contrarian for people who don't consume left-ish media content. I don't know anybody who still listens to Bill Maher. I can't remember the last time I even ran across anybody saying they still listened to him. I recall reading a while ago that Jon Stewart's median viewer is pushing retirement age - basically his original audience stuck with him and he didn't pick up much of the next generation. I can't imagine Maher, whose relevance peaked a few years before Stewart's, and who's spent the last 23 years on HBO (vs a regular cable channel) is doing any better. The only times I've seen him mentioned in the last several years are conservatives pointing to his critiques of the left as if they're somehow novel or insightful.

ETA: That's not quite accurate. FB did feed me an episode of his non-political podcast where he got drunk interviewing Billy Corgan and Corgan had some good comments about maintaining a proper perspective regarding work relationships vs family relationships. Possibly the only time I've heard anybody mention unconditional love outside a church.

iluvatar5150 said:

Everybody?

I don't mean to be flippant, but it's been a pretty consistent theme in center-left media for a decade now. These were the top results of a google search I just did. The Hoover Institute is the only conservative source on there:

View attachment 380181

Then I restricted the search to nytimes.com and pulled out a couple that were obviously not relevant:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/19/opinion/democrats-attention-elections.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/26/opinion/democrats-israel.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/06/opinion/democrats-james-carville.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/28/opinion/dnc-2024-report-release.html

In Dissecting 2024 Loss, Democrats’ Report Ignores Gaza, Biden’s Age

The nearly 200-page draft autopsy indicated that the party had failed to fully grapple with why Kamala Harris had lost to Donald J. Trump.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/21/us/politics/dnc-election-autopsy-report-takeaways.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/08/opinion/democrats-politics-policy.html

Devastated Democrats Play the Blame Game, and Stare at a Dark Future (Published 2024)

In interviews, lawmakers and strategists tried to explain Kamala Harris’s defeat, pointing to misinformation, the Gaza war, a toxic Democratic brand and the party’s approach to transgender issues.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/20/opinion/democrats-tea-party-trump.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/13/opinion/democrats-control-congress.html

There's one in there from David French, who's a never-Trumper conservative, but tries to be fair-minded. The rest are from inside the camp.

The reason that the party's approval rating is so low is that its own voters can't stand it. We all know the party is terrible. If you read center-left outlets like the NY Times or the Atlantic, you can barely go a week without somebody hitting on this. The two podcast I listen to most regularly are Ezra Kelin and Know Your Enemy and it's well-trod ground there.


Bill Maher is the left-wing contrarian for people who don't consume left-ish media content. I don't know anybody who still listens to Bill Maher. I can't remember the last time I even ran across anybody saying they still listened to him. I recall reading a while ago that Jon Stewart's median viewer is pushing retirement age - basically his original audience stuck with him and he didn't pick up much of the next generation. I can't imagine Maher, whose relevance peaked a few years before Stewart's, and who's spent the last 23 years on HBO (vs a regular cable channel) is doing any better. The only times I've seen him mentioned in the last several years are conservatives pointing to his critiques of the left as if they're somehow novel or insightful.

ETA: That's not quite accurate. FB did feed me an episode of his non-political podcast where he got drunk interviewing Billy Corgan and Corgan had some good comments about maintaining a proper perspective regarding work relationships vs family relationships. Possibly the only time I've heard anybody mention unconditional love outside a church.

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Good. I'm glad what's probably closer to the way things really are is being addressed by many. As far as who's popular, I've heard Gutfeld has a wider audience then all of the Bill Mahers and Jon Stewarts. Like many I don't want to see an end to the Democrat party. I'd just like to see it get back to being more normal. Of course that means normal by my geezer standards.

Servus said:

Like many I don't want to see an end to the Democrat party. I'd just like to see it get back to being more normal. Of course that means normal by my geezer standards.

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What's "normal"?

That's the issue, isn't it? This is why I kept harping on the claimed perception that the Democratic party has become "radically liberal," since there's nothing whatsoever liberal about the party today. It's signature legislation in recent years, devised by the Heritage Foundation, isn't even close to a liberal idea (and the liberal (non-radical) solution to health care, single payer, was never even on the table), and there has been no liberal candidate supported by the Democratic party in recent memory. The closest was Bernie Sanders, and, well, we know how that went.

For my part, I'd love to see the Democratic party become even a little bit more liberal, cuz it ain't there now. Not even close.

-- A2SG, which is why I question those who seem to imagine it's become "radically liberal," cuz they never seem to be able to articulate how....