What Seventh-Day Adventist Believe

jacks · Monday at 7:55 PM

In reading this thread there is much very thoughtful and well referenced commentary (Thank you Reddogs and others.) I'm trying to keep up. However, much of it is beyond me and seems very confusing. Does it really matter? Can't we just love God and live a life that we hope honors Him? Does He really care what day of the week we set aside to worship? Is advanced exegesis necessary for salvation?

Now I don't want to be a party pooper, if you guys enjoy these discussions great. Though for myself, I have a hard enough time just not being a jerk. Maybe when I get that part down, I will worry more about the details.

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 8:12 PM

jacks said:
In reading this thread there is much very thoughtful and well referenced commentary (Thank you Reddogs and others.) I'm trying to keep up. However, much of it is beyond me and seems very confusing. Does it really matter? Can't we just love God and live a life that we hope honors Him? Does He really care what day of the week we set aside to worship? Is advanced exegesis necessary for salvation?

Now I don't want to be a party pooper, if you guys enjoy these discussions great. Though for myself, I have a hard enough time just not being a jerk. Maybe when I get that part down, I will worry more about the details.

At what point how much compromise is okay on what God Himself asked us to do if we love Him. How would one feel if our spouse made plans on our birthday, even when we reminded them- Remember, but something else was more important? Maybe we don't think it matters, but God seemed to He came down from heaven and personally wrote it out and said If you love Me, do this. But we change it to something more convenient to us because we are too busy on the day God set aside, or because everyone else is doing something different, to follow the crowd instead of what God said. Where does that put God as a priority in our lives. We are told to love Him with our whole heart, mind and soul. No one is to be before Him.

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

How do you think it makes God feel when we take something He blessed and sanctified and made it for us Mark2:27-28 because He is LORD of it but instead use it as a common day and take a day He made for works and labors Exo20:9 and use as a holy day that He never made holy or came with His blessing.

I believe God answered this

Eze 22:26 Her priests have [g]violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.

ViaCrucis · Monday at 8:49 PM

reddogs said:
The following list comes from Steve Wohlberg's (an SDA pastor and theologian) website and is good overview of Adventist beliefs...

And for those curious, here is what Christ's Holy Church believes:

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father [and the Son],
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

The Liturgist · Tuesday at 2:05 AM

ViaCrucis said:
And for those curious, here is what Christ's Holy Church believes:

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father [and the Son],
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

Amen!

under grace1 · Tuesday at 4:32 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
Love to God has never been separated from keeping the commandments of God. This idea we can separate love to God from how God said to love Him, is sadly very misguided. It reminds me of a boyfriend I had once who did everything for me, except what I asked...love was always on his terms, not how I asked which sort of defeats the purpose.

This is how God said to love Him....

Exo20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
1 John5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Why when Jesus quoted the greatest commandment from the OT Deut6:5, was right after the Ten Commandments was repeated 40 years after God personally and divinely wrote them out and spoke them for them to keep and teach their children to keep, before crossing over to the promise land. That was the condition of receiving the promise land that they love God with all their heart, mind and soul and keep His commandments.

Sadly, not every did....will we follow in the same example? Heb4:11

Eze 20:15 So I also raised My hand in an oath to them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, ‘flowing with milk and honey,’ the glory of all lands, 16 because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.

The everlasting gospel absolutely includes fearing God and keeping God's commandments, just as we were told when God spoke His commandments to His people Exo20:20 because its the whole duty of man Ecc12:13-14.

Rev 14:6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”

8 And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon[f] is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Do you transgress the Ten Commandments?

SabbathBlessings · Tuesday at 6:44 AM

under grace1 said:
Do you transgress the Ten Commandments?

What I do or do not do is between me and God. Its not going to save anyone else because we are judged based on what we do, not what others do. 2 Cor 5:10 Ecc12:13-14. God is the only one all knowing who has any righteous basis for our Judgement..

Claiming the law of God is not part of the gospel is not what the Bible teaches, which is what I like to stick with- Our salvation is from sin Mat1:21 Heb10:36-30 sin is breaking the law of God 1John3:4 James2:10-12 we need to become a new Creation in Christ Rom6:1-2 Eph 4:22 John14:15-18 if we truly love Jesus why would we not want to do what He asks. Exo20:6 John14:15

reddogs · Tuesday at 7:28 AM

jacks said:
In reading this thread there is much very thoughtful and well referenced commentary (Thank you Reddogs and others.) I'm trying to keep up. However, much of it is beyond me and seems very confusing. Does it really matter? Can't we just love God and live a life that we hope honors Him? Does He really care what day of the week we set aside to worship? Is advanced exegesis necessary for salvation?

Now I don't want to be a party pooper, if you guys enjoy these discussions great. Though for myself, I have a hard enough time just not being a jerk. Maybe when I get that part down, I will worry more about the details.

Thanks so much my brother. And it does matter as false doctrine can lead one to lose their salvation and gift of eternal life. If you have any questions no matter how small, just ask, its the least we can do to spread Gods truth.

under grace1 · Tuesday at 7:37 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
What I do or do not do is between me and God.

To a point, but not for people who preach inflexible law obedience as a condition of entering Heaven

Jesus said:

“The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor Luke4:16-19

Why would the people have become oppressed, prisoners, blind?

Well their leaders, the Pharisees, would I’m sure have quoted the letter of scripture inflexible according to the law and insisted it was fully obeyed. Heaven hinged on it. And as they were quoting the letter of scripture, naturally the people would believe what they were having preached to them. And, the Pharisees would have appeared as such Godly folk to the people, for Jesus himself said they cleaned the outside of the cup/outward obedience. But Jesus said they did not clean the inside of the cup, law we can say only they and God need know they broke.

However, the people would not have known the pharisees were hinging everything on outward obedience. They may well have assumed, the Pharisees fully obeyed the law on the inside as well as the outside, for they would not be insisting of others what they did not insist of themselves. And honest sincere people would then become crushed, oppressed, prisoners and blind. For they in humility and honesty would know they did not fully obey inwardly. So they were not obeying all of the law the pharisees insisted you must obey to enter Heaven.

Jesus reserved his harshest words for the Pharisees, he said they did not practice what they preached(Matt23:2&3)

He also said:

Beware of the yeast of the pharisees, which is hypocrisy Luke12:1

For again, they did not practice what they preached

It would be good for many to reflect in my view on Jesus words, and in love for others, in consideration of the second greatest commandment consider how and what they seek to teach

SabbathBlessings · Tuesday at 9:21 AM

This idea Jesus condemned one person for doing what He asked is we love Him John14:15, not sure how anyone comes up with this.

Jesus condemned the Pharisees for doing what they felt was right in lieu of what God commanded. Jesus said it made the word of God void. So not sure how one comes to this conclusion obeying God by love is bad disobeying Him is good. Sounds like something that deceived our first parents.

Mat15:1 Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.” 3 He answered them, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ 5 But you say, ‘If anyone tells his father or his mother, “What you would have gained from me is given to God,”[a] 6 he need not honor his father.’ So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God.

under grace1 · Tuesday at 9:33 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
This idea Jesus condemned one person for doing what He asked is we love Him John14:15, not sure how anyone comes up with this.

Jesus condemned the Pharisees for doing what they felt was right in lieu of what God commanded. Jesus said it made the word of God void. So not sure how one comes to this conclusion obeying God by love is bad disobeying Him is good. Sounds like something that deceived our first parents.

Mat15:1 Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.” 3 He answered them, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ 5 But you say, ‘If anyone tells his father or his mother, “What you would have gained from me is given to God,”[a] 6 he need not honor his father.’ So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God.

Jesus condemned the Pharisees for not practicing what they preached, their hypocrisy. Everything hinged on fully obeying the law when they did not do that themselves.
No one today fully obeys the law, we all transgress the TC-if we are honest. The important thing is, do we have sorrow for our imperfections, or would we not care?
To simply quote the letter and insist it is fully obeyed is to insist what no one does or can do, then you crush your brother and sister for whom Christ died

under grace1 · Tuesday at 9:42 AM

because Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions.” Gen26:5

Does the above mean Abraham fully at all times obeyed all of God's laws?
No! When he went to Egypt he palmed his wife off as his sister, Pharoah took her into his palace to be his wife. He showered gifts on Abraham and Abraham simply accepted them. How many today would accept such a man as a member of their church?
So you cannot take the verse at first glance
Same as the letter about obeying laws, no one perfectly obeys them!
Better to admit it, rather than crush your brother and sister with impossible demands, as did the Pharisees

SabbathBlessings · Tuesday at 9:53 AM

under grace1 said:
Jesus condemned the Pharisees for not practicing what they preached, their hypocrisy. Everything hinged on fully obeying the law when they did not do that themselves.
No one today fully obeys the law, we all transgress the TC-if we are honest. The important thing is, do we have sorrow for our imperfections, or would we not care?
To simply quote the letter and insist it is fully obeyed is to insist what no one does or can do, then you crush your brother and sister for whom Christ died

If we read carefully, we will see Jesus condemned them for not keeping Gods commandments but instead depended on man-made rules that they felt they should keep over what God said. Again, this idea that Jesus condemned one person for doing what He said to do if we love Him, is really a dangerous doctrine. Jesus used the commandments of God interchangeable with the word of God and laying them aside for what we feel, man made traditions makes God's word void. That's really serious all of God's promises void .

Mat15:1 Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.” 3 He answered them, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ 5 But you say, ‘If anyone tells his father or his mother, “What you would have gained from me is given to God,”[a] 6 he need not honor his father.’ So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God.

No wonder why Jesus said this: Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

This idea we can literally murder someone and literally steal, literally not only worship God, literally not honor our mother and father and are living in His Spirit, is not supported in Scripture. John 14:15-18 Rom8:7-8 To claim no one can overcome and obey God is not supported either Rev14:12 Rev2:7 its basically saying the devil has more power to keep one in sin than Jesus does to free us from sin. This idea we look to what others are doing as our standard is not a good practice either, we need to look at Jesus, we can only overcome through abiding in Him John 15:4-10 Jesus kept God's commandments and He is our example 1John2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 and through Him all things are possible.

I will agree to disagree, I guess God will sort this out in His time.

under grace1 · Tuesday at 10:13 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
If we read carefully, we will see Jesus condemned them for not keeping Gods commandments .

If we read carefully, they did fully obey outwardly, but not inwardly. Yet they insisted the people fully obey the law, if they expected to enter Heaven
I wonder how many today, insist people must obey the TC for example, the inference at least being Heaven hinges on it, when they too have outward obedience whislt are guilty of transgression on the inside concerning those laws

SabbathBlessings · Tuesday at 10:19 AM

under grace1 said:
If we read carefully, they did fully obey outwardly, but not inwardly.

Not according to Jesus Christ

Mat 15:3 “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’
Mat 15:6he need not honor his father.’ So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God..

This idea that what is inward prodces a different result than is outward is not a doctrine taught either.

Sin starts in the heart, if the heart is changed so would the outward actions. No anger- the commandment to thou shalt not murder would be kept. Mat5:19-30

This idea that a heart transformations leads people to literally not keep God's commandments I guess we shall see how that works out.

Rom8: 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

under grace1 · Tuesday at 10:22 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
To claim no one can overcome and obey God is not supported either Rev14:12 Rev2:7 its basically saying the devil has more power to keep one in sin than Jesus does to free us from sin. This idea we look to what others are doing as our standard is not a good practice either, we need to look at Jesus, we can only overcome through abiding in Him John 15:4-10 Jesus kept God's commandments and He is our example 1John2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 and through Him all things are possible.

Well only on the internet do I come across a few who claim to live sinless lives. Anyone who claims to fully obey God's laws is claiming to be sinless, according to the biblical definition of sin you would agree with. Personally, I think it is far better to admit you have faults than claim or infer you do not

under grace1 · Tuesday at 10:23 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
Not according to Jesus Christ

Really?

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Matt23:25

under grace1 · Tuesday at 10:32 AM

John admitted he was not sinless(1John1:8) therefore he transgressed the letter of the law

SabbathBlessings · Tuesday at 10:33 AM

under grace1 said:
Really?

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Matt23:25

Its about outside appearances not that they were obeying God's commandments. Jesus already said they weren't, you can choose to believe or not believe what He said, that's outside the scope of anything I can do.

Your focus seems to be on other people- well so and so isn't keeping the Ten Commandments so why should I. God does not judge us on a sliding scale. Remember 8 people were found righteous in Noah's day. God does now show partiality Rom2:11

The Pharisees were not keeping the commandments of God, they kept their own man-made rules.. Even if you thought they were - it has nothing to do with our own salvation. Breaking the law of God dishonors God. Only God can judge our insides, not us and dishonoring God by breaking God's law- is not how one should live if we love Him. He said if you love Me, keep My commandments- thats what we should focus on loving God doing what He said is loving Him Exo20:6 Rev14:12 and stop worrying about what someone else does or does not do, it has zero bearing on our own salvation. We all have to stand before Jesus based on what we do and saying well so and so never did won't change our own outcome.

Rom 2:21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?

under grace1 · Tuesday at 10:36 AM

The letter(of the TC) kills 2Cor3:6

Paul stated that for a very good reason. The example ha gave was of coveting, what goes on, on the inside of man. No outward act is needed to transgress that commandment.

under grace1 · Tuesday at 10:37 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
Its about outside appearances not that they were obeying God's commandments. Jesus already said they weren't, you can choose to believe or not believe what He said, that's outside the scope of anything I can do.

Your focus seems to be on other people- well so and so isn't keeping the Ten Commandments so why should I. God does not judge us on a sliding scale. Remember 8 people were found righteous in Noah's day. God does now show partiality Rom2:11

The Pharisees were not keeping the commandments of God, they kept their own man-made rules.. Even if you thought they were - it has nothing to do with our own salvation. Breaking the law of God dishonors God. Only God can judge our insides, not us and dishonoring God by breaking God's law- is not how one should live if we love Him. He said if you love Me, keep My commandments- thats what we should focus on loving God doing what He said is loving Him Exo20:6 Rev14:12 and stop worrying about what someone else does or does not do, it has zero bearing on our own salvation. We all have to stand before Jesus based on what we do and saying well so and so never did won't change our own outcome.

Rom 2:21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?

Everyone transgresses the letter of the TC, that is why the letter of them kills. Those who do not realise they do transgress them do not have the conviction they should have from the Spirit concerning their faliures regarding them

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